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The Low Budget Introduction to Fire Farming.

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Hi Guys & Gals,


This is going to be a bit of a niche guide on Fire Farming in the AE, using a Spines / Fiery Aura Brute as your Farmer of Choice.


For those of you interested in this topic, there is a Great Thread on Fire Farming, including some amazing builds and results over ---->   here


Intrigued with the idea, I posted in that thread (here) but, basically being too chintzy to build one of those High-End purpled out builds, I decided it might be a fun project to see what I could build ... on the cheap, and see how it compared. It occurred to me (eventually) that my post might be a bit of a thread hijack in that High-End thread, and would definitely be too long in any case, with the various updates.


SO, I decided to make it a separate guide on Low Budget Fire Farming...   Hope you find it useful (or even, mildly interesting)   🙂  I'm not going to repost the contents of my first comment here, but I will cover the key points in this guide. You should also read the other thread (especially Warlawk's first post) to pick up some important basics. Meanwhile, a couple Disclaimers...   🙂


First: This is a Fire Farmer... He is designed, built, and expected to spend almost his entire career in the AE running Fire Farm missions at as high a degree of difficulty as he can handle safely.


Second: As the title implies, this is going to be a Low Budget, "Farmer Lite" kind of build. If you've never done any AE farming, and you want to dabble, or learn the ropes, inexpensively, this is your guy. Otherwise, the first thread I linked is where you'll want to be for the high-end stuff (and it's a good read, besides). You won't be seeing any Purple, PVP, or ATO sets in this build.  My maximum estimate for this guy's build is 50 Million total, and my expectation is that he will be *well* under that. He's going to be entirely self-funded for this project, with the idea that *anyone* who wants to can jump right in and try this with a brand new character and do exactly what this guy is doing. Btw, if you haven't done so, you'll want to get Pine's Hero Builder. I'll be posting the Data Chunk for our Farmer's build(s). Those can be cut and pasted directly into that program, and will be invaluable for knowing how to slot and IO your LBFF (Low Budget Fire Farmer) character.


Third: I honestly, have *zero* expectation that he'll seriously challenge the inf/minute numbers of the High-End builds, but he should be able to reach some (decent?) percentage of that, and will well-exceed earning levels of more typical characters.  How far he can go remains to be seen. That said, this isn't a "theoretical" build.  I am actually playing the exact builds I'll be posting, and we'll see how he does as we go along.


Finally: I'm doing this guide in a few installments. While I've done some farming back on the Live servers (way back when), I'm not an expert by any means, so a part of this project is to relate my experiences with these builds, as I jump into the figurative pond of AE Farming, myself. Consequently, I'll be breaking this guide into sections: Phase I -- Beginner Build, Phase II -- Mature Build, and Phase III - Final Build. Currently, I'm wrapping up Phase II as I write this, and am considering what the Phase III build will be... 


Ok, if you're still here, let's get started.... 


Create yourself a shiny new Spines / Fiery Aura Brute.  Note, I made him as a hero, and after the tutorial, I started him out in Atlas Park. I'd imagine, it would work similarly for a villain, but this is what this guy did.


DO take him thru the tutorial, and keep the 2 TO's and the 2 Inspirations he gets from it. That will be your initial shoestring starter fund (although you'll get plenty more, shortly).  🙂


Sell the two TO's to the trainer by Miss Liberty. Dump the two inspirations on the Auction House for 11 each, and take what you get when they insta-sell.  (Tip: You can type /ah  to access the Auction House from just about anywhere, which I find very helpful, except in an SG/VG base, or inside an active mission).  Those sales should probably net you anywhere from 10,000-50,000 inf.  While you're in Atlas Park, DO stop by the P2W vendor (on the plaza by Atlas' right foot). You will definitely want to pick up some free perks there. At minimum, you should grab the free attack powers (Blackwand, Nemesis Staff, and Sands of Mu). Note the first two offer a small bonus depending on your origin, so do grab the right ones for your character. You also want the Inner Inspiration power. That will randomly create 3 Medium or Large inspirations (if you have room in your Inspie tray) which you can use, or sell for additional inf. It can be used every 1/2 hour. You'll also want to look at the P2W's Custom XP rates.  The last one in the list is Double XP. It's free, you can stack up to 8 of them, and you'll want to do exactly that. Don't be concerned that you earn no influence with 2XP - You *won't* be making your money from killing stuff. Trust me, that *won't* be a problem. Finally, you also want to disable getting Awaken (resuscitate type) inspirations. You have to pay a little bit for that (1000 iirc), but you just don't want those dropping for you and cluttering your tray. I'll also throw in a recommendation for Reveal (it removes "Fog of War" from a map) if you can afford it (10,000 iirc). If you did OK on your inspiration sales, it's worth picking up.


Alright, from the moment you stepped into the tutorial til now (after collecting your P2W goodies) should take about 20 minutes, unless you're completely new to the game. In that case, maybe a 1/2 hour, or so...  😉


If you've played in the AE at all, and if you've wandered into a Fire Farm (either by mistake, or out of curiosity), you probably learned, as I did, that those are deadly places for most normal characters. For our guy, that is going to be his office and playground. That means we're going to have to make some very specific choices initially, just to keep him alive, and eventually, to make him a Fire demigod. That is going to take some time. In fact, our first build is designed for L25. Prior to that, he's just not viable at all (imho). It's crazy dangerous in there! 😄


So, let's get him leveled up. This is an AE guy, so I recommend you doing it there. Doubtless, there are several AE missions that will do the trick, but, if I may, I'll give some props to @A Humble Farmer  (search on the word Humble in AE). He created some missions that are especially friendly to low level characters. You can run these from L1 onward, and with the P2W attacks, and your first two power attacks, it's pretty easy. My own favorite there is #3297 - Bads' Backyard BBQ.  You'll level quite quickly in that mission, especially as a lowbie using the Double XP perk. DO select "Architect Rewards" setting  when running this. That will give you AE tickets as you go through the mission. 


That is your *income*.


For every 540 tickets you earn, you can exchange them for a piece of Rare Invention Salvage (from the guy at the top of the stairs) -- that includes Hamidon Goo, Mu Vestment, Deific Weapon, etc. Each of these sells for 450,000-600,000 on the Auction House, and that is substantially more than you'll make by killing bad guys in normal content missions. Initially, you may need to list them low on the Market (due to seller's fees) and take what you get, but once past that point, I generally list them for sale around 480,000 or so to get full value from them.  Trading tickets for rare salvage is how you are going to self fund your Farmer, initially. As you're doing this, *don't* train up your character when he levels.  You won't need to, and it'll make it easy to make our first build (@L25)


Ok... You've been running AE awhile, you've leveled up to 25 (or more), and you've been selling that rare salvage, so you should have several million inf on hand. It is time to commence your Farming career.


Here's what we're going to build.


L25 Entry Level Farmer 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |


This build uses L25 Common IO's throughout. It has nearly capped Fire Resistance (88+%), decently slotted attacks, and the basic building blocks for what he'll need as he matures. It should cost about 2-3 Million to build him, and if you've been following along, this should be easily affordable by now. This is a build that can not only survive the Fire Farm, but use it to continue leveling. The Gold Standard for Fire Farms (based on the other Farming thread) are written by @Brigg. He has several of them. Personally, I like his Outdoor farm #11612 which can be run in about 15-20 minutes or so and gives you plenty of XP and AE tickets. Again, until your LBFF hits L50, you should always be running on Double XP - so, you'll need to refresh that from time to time with the P2W vendor.


Let's talk about running a farming mission with this guy. This build is capable of safely running a Fire Farm at a difficulty setting of 0/3 (possibly 0/4). You were expecting +4/8 ???   Hold on, Champ...  🙂


This guy is a Beginner!  You'll find he has Endurance issues, No DEF to speak of, a sub-optimal attack chain, and significant health issues if he aggroes too much, too soon.  Healing Flames and Consume can help with that, but they won't be charged fast enough all the time (esp. Consume). That's ok.  You'll need to be attentive, and learn how to actively manage him in the farm.  In fact, if you struggle at all with that, dial back the difficulty a bit (0/2, or even 0/0) until you get the hang of it.  You'll both improve as we go along. Right now, what you have is a guy that shouldn't die on you in that fire farm if you're paying attention.


At this point, I'm going to direct you back to the other posts for a bit (the links are up top). You'll want to understand the section on binds and macros, because those are the keys to running your LBFF more efficiently. I highly recommend that you install them -- they'll help a lot! I did things a bit differently, but the actual binds and macros I'm using are listed there in my post. Take your time, I'll wait.


Ok, hopefully, you have the binds and macros covered and set up (if not, ask, and I'll try to help). This guy's play style is quite simple. Turn any travel toggles, except Combat Jumping, off (Sprint and Super Jump) to preserve Endurance. Ensure your Shields and Damage toggles are on, and in you go. It helps to target the Boss and wade in close to him, as he's hardest to kill, and will last longest. If Build Up is available, pop that, then your Spine Burst. Then use your single target attacks (on that boss). As you do that, you'll be creating red inspies if possible and automatically using them when you attack. You don't have a real attack chain, so just fire off whatever attack is ready (Note, you may need to press it a couple times due to the binds making and burning reds, so watch to make sure the attack actually queues). Keep an eye on your health, but especially on your Endurance.  De-Toggling by running out of Endurance will get you killed quickly. Use Healing Flames for health and Consume for endurance if needed and available. If they're not available, don't be shy about clicking an inspie in the tray. Currently, the attacks will not use blue inspies, so they're there to help the endurance issue. If you get too many clogging the tray, use the grn/Grn macros to convert them.


Early on, you won't get Large inspirations, but eventually they'll drop as well. The macros don't do anything with those, and in the other thread, they recommend turning those off at the P2W vendor as well. I left mine on, and in between farm runs, I sell them (they can sell for anywhere between 5,000 - 100,000 inf typically). If they actually start clogging your tray, don't feel shy about using them. Initially, 100K seems like a nice chunk of change to throw away, but after you get a few million from AE tickets, it won't be much of a concern anymore. I'll leave it up to you to decide how you want to handle the large inspirations.


In the meantime, survivability in the Fire Farm is your key goal as this build is just starting to learn the ropes. As you do that, you'll be leveling and earning tickets needed to fund his future progress.


After a few runs, I think you'll find it pretty simple to manage, and pretty soon, it should start to go fairly smoothly. If not, dial back the difficulty a bit.  Keep it super simple and easy as you're learning and leveling.


In the next installment, we'll look at improving this L25 build by using some simple IO sets, a few higher end IO's, which can be bought from AH if you're flush with cash, or, with merits... For that last, we'll have to foray into the "real world" of content, and that presents a different set of difficulties.


Stay tuned...



Edited by FourSpeed
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Welcome to Phase II.


In the previous installment, we set some basic expectations, and created a Level 25 character that is capable of surviving fire farms at an entry, beginning level. The cost for that build was minimal (2-3 million), using common IO's but, we also covered a funding strategy that should allow your LBFF to progress nicely into the next phase we're going to talk about.


Still, some of the IO's we might want will cost more than his entire build so far. Another way to obtain those IO's involves Reward Merits. While there are plenty of ways to earn those, one fairly easy way, since our LBFF is L25+  (you have been practicing with him, right?) is to run Tip missions.  They're short, and the end reward is a cool 40 merits (ie. 2 Steadfast IO's, or 80% of a Luck of the Gambler 7.5% Recharge IO, from the Merit Vendor, just to put it into perspective) when you run the Morality mission.  With that thought in mind, my LBFF ventured out of the AE into the "Real World" of content.


Originally, I was planning the Phase II build around L35 or so...  A couple things changed my thinking ... drastically.


The first was trying to run those Tips...  At L25, our LBFF is decent at running 0/3 difficulty Fire Farms...  Don't let that success go to his head!  🙂


Remember the Disclaimer about "designed, built, and expected ... for AE"?   Yeah, I forgot it too...  


Most content out there is not Fire based, and our LBFF has almost no defense. He also took a lot of his fire resistance powers early, just so he could survive in the farm... That didn't leave much room for real attack powers (the free "Sands of Mu" is a key part of his attack chain - Yikes), or much of anything else... Oh, and he doesn't have any KB protection either (yep, he spent a bunch of time on his keester).


Talk about an eye opener (or maybe a fatal belly opener 😉).  That was compounded by a few other mistakes, so, I'll pass those on here as well...


SO, If your AE LBFF is going to venture out into the "real world" at this point in his development  (that *is* ok btw, but be advised...)



*  Remember to RESET his difficulty level!  He's not a content runner (you have other alts for that), he's just a farmer who wants a few Reward Merits... 😉  0/0 is just fine tyvm. Running anything (other than Fire) at 0/3 is likely to end Badly... for You, not them... 😄

*  Those macros that are awesome in a fire farm are Not Helpful in normal content.  You'll want some way to turn those off outside of AE (Actually, all you really need there is to change the attack binds so they don't auto-combine inspies - ie. run red/Red/Boom when pressed) and reinstate them when you're ready to run in AE-Mode again. I use a couple little files for that.




    /macro AE-0ff "bind_load_file C:\AE_Off.txt"

    /macro AE_On "bind_load_file C:\AE_On.txt"



AE_On.txt  contents


1 "powexec_slot 1$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

2 "powexec_slot 2$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

3 "powexec_slot 3$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

4 "powexec_slot 4$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

5 "powexec_slot 5$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

6 "powexec_slot 6$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

7 "powexec_slot 7$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

8 "powexec_slot 8$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

9 "powexec_slot 9$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"

0 "powexec_slot 10$$powexec_tray 2 4$$powexec_tray 3 4$$powexec_tray 1 4"




AE_Off.txt  contents


1 "powexec_slot 1"

2 "powexec_slot 2"

3 "powexec_slot 3"

4 "powexec_slot 4"

5 "powexec_slot 5"

6 "powexec_slot 6"

7 "powexec_slot 7"

8 "powexec_slot 8"

9 "powexec_slot 9"

0 "powexec_slot 10"




PS> My inspie combining and burning macros are in tray 4 (rather than tray 6 as Warlawk has his)



As for inspirations, you'll be much better served to carry a selection of green, blue, and purple inspirations that don't get auto-chewed by your attacks.


* Remember why you left AE in the first place. You will *absolutely* make more money IN AE, and your farmer doesn't care about the stories -- he's out there for a short, specific, purpose.  In my case, it was Reward Merits thru Tips. Get out, git r done, and git back in the AE - where it's safe and cozy...  😉


Ok, Egon -- thanks for that important safety tip...   😄


The second reason I held off is that at L40 we also get another column of inspirations. 


So,  in that build, we're going to try to address his health and endurance issues, and we're *definitely* going to add some KB protection 😉, and he'd certainly benefit from having fully slotted Burn in his build.  To top that all off, we're going to want some IO sets, namely, Scirocco's Dervish, Kinetic Combat, Steadfast Protection, Aegis, and a couple Numina's.


Yep, some of that is going to cost a pretty penny, but that's why you've been trading AE tickets for rare salvage to sell for the past 15 levels, right?


So, here's what the Phase II build looks like.

L40 Mature Farmer Build

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |


So, let's talk a bit about costs.  Hopefully, you've been earning some decent coin while leveling your LBFF, so this shouldn't seem as daunting as it might have at the outset of the guide. First of all, you shouldn't be the least bit concerned about recipes that need rare (orange) salvage. You've been getting that for free (AE tix) since your Farmer was created. Take it as read that *all* rare salvage needed for the build was (and should be) obtained using AE tickets exclusively.  You *sell* rare salvage - you don't buy it...  😄


Looking at the build, you'll see that we changed to L30 IOs. The reasons for this are pretty simple -- L30's are roughly equivalent to +1 SO's, so they're reasonably powerful. They are also more exemplar-friendly than L40 (or higher) IO's and will suffer less degradation if your farmer exemplars. Finally, they are substantially cheaper to buy, and even more importantly, to craft. 


With regards to salvage, I admit it -- I paid "buy it Nao" prices for salvage. So, for Common (white) salvage, I paid 511 each... Sure, I might have gotten it for 50 or 100, but really? There's a lower limit to penny pinching (at least, for me).  😉  For each piece of Uncommon salvage, I paid 2111. Those bids were typically filled immediately.


Recipe prices vary across the board, and even by IO within a set. I bought the lot over a few days, and I'll detail that momentarily.  As it turns out, the Scirocco's were virtually a dime-a-dozen, I got the Numina's relatively cheaply, the Aegis and Kinetic Combats were surprisingly expensive, and the 3 Steadfast IOs seemed way overpriced, so I got those with 60 Reward Merits. I filled out the rest with L30 Common IOs for new slots, but I didn't actually replace all of the L25's (ie. Stamina actually has two L30s and one L25 in it). In general the power difference is minimal, and we're on a budget. 😉  Of course, it's also nbd if you want to use L30 commons to replace the L25's across the board. Your Call.


Here are the costs (that I paid) to outfit the L40 build.


Name                              Count               Total Cost


Scirocco's (4-sets)             20 Recipes               222,220
Multi-Strike                     4  "   "                 44,444
Stupefy                          2  "   "                  3,222
Kinetic Combat                   6  "   "              3,792,266
Kinetic Combat D/E/R             2 Crafted IO's        3,311,222    (No recipes were available, so I had to "suck it up" on these)
Crushing Impact                  2 Recipes               102,222
Aegis                            6  "   "              6,620,266
Bruising Blow                    2  "   "                 10,122
Numina's                         3  "   "              3,551,137
Steadfast                        3  "   "                 ------    Traded 60 Reward Merits
Crafting Costs                  48 @ 43,700            2,097,600
Salvage - Common      (white       @511 ea)               67,452
        - Uncommon    (yellow      @2,111 ea)             63,330
Common IO's           (Recipes & Crafting)               879,482                 
Total Cost                                            20,764,985


On a bad note, the L40 build has cost almost 10X as much as the original build, but on a good note, we're still well under budget, and we have made some substantial improvements across the board.  Please bear in mind with costs, this is what I paid, this time. The market is always variable, and depending on what's going on, some items may be cheaper or spendier than they were for me. That said, I think these prices are fairly representative of what you can expect and I'd be surprised if they changed very much from the numbers I saw. YMMV - Caveat Emptor.  


The improvements made, most notably to Defense, Health, Endurance recovery, and DPS should help this build fare much, much better in our fire farm, and even in "real world" content.  The biggest factor here is that we can soft-cap our Defense to just about everything with a single Good-Luck inspiration, and what does actually hit, should be mitigated by our resistances and regen.  Your LBFF should be easily capable of running our Fire Farm at 0/8, and probably even higher levels (2/8, 3/8, 4/8 ???). Certainly, this build should easily see you through the last 10 levels to 50.


In the next installment, I'll discuss my experiences with the L40 build, see if the prior claim(s) are actually true, and of course, we'll look at the last few powers needed to finish it out.


Stay tuned...


Edited by FourSpeed
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Welcome to Phase III of my guide to Low Budget Fire Farming.


In Phase I, we created an LBFF character, leveled him up to L25, equipped him sufficiently to dip his toes into a Fire Farm at 0/3 difficulty, and survive it. Hopefully, you were able to have some success (and fun) there, gaining actual experience managing your farmer safely, while leveling up and earning enough tickets to further fund his career.


In Phase II, we discussed some of the challenges that farmer faced, and spent a substantial amount of influence and merits at L40 in hopes of resolving many of those difficulties, while continuing to level up to L50, where we'll finalize his build.


If you've gotten this far, and you've played the L40 Phase II build, I hope you got to experience the WOW! moment, as I did.  Gone are the endurance problems, and the health problems, and now with several extra attacks available, we can finally dispense with the free P2W attack powers -- they're not needed anymore.  🙂 How far can you ramp up the difficulty in the Fire Farm now?  


At 0/8 he can virtually sleepwalk thru the farm... You probably didn't even need to use Consume or Healing Flames at all! The baddies virtually melted away from him, and I got the feeling that 0/8, 0/50, 0/1000 would be No Problem -- it would just take a little longer to kill everything.  Heady Stuff!  🙂  What a Night and Day difference -- WOW!


At 2/8 it wasn't much different. A little bit slower of course, as tougher mobs take slightly more time to kill, but survival was never in doubt, and any damage was easily mitigated if necessary. My LBFF really felt like this *was* his playground now, and running it was a lot of fun.


At 3/8, it starts to get a bit more challenging again. The mobs are much tougher, and they can start to wear your health down a bit. It's not too severe, but you probably started needing to pay attention again, and make more use of Purple inspirations to boost your Defense to the soft cap.  It takes noticeably longer to kill them all at this difficulty.


Can he survive 4/8?


As a matter of fact, Yes! Yes he can.  Great, right?  Actually, it's only Good, not Great. First of all, this felt a lot more similar to the experience our L25 guy had at 0/3.  You need to actively manage him, and it feels like it takes forever to kill anything, while they're wearing you down all the time. Inspirations aren't dropping as quickly, and sometimes, Consume and Healing Flames aren't quite ready when you want them to be.  In short, 4/8 is challenging, although it is definitely do-able for our current LBFF.


If you ran some Tips again with him (you did remember to Reset the power binds back, and the difficulty back to 0/0 first, right?) you should have discovered that he's just fine now in the "real world". If things started looking even a little bit tough, he could simply pop a medium Purple, and he's golden. Even Malta Sappers weren't hitting my LBFF before I could kill them, that way.


It's Good that he can survive at 4/8 difficulty. The first thing you need is survivability. After that though, the most effective farmers want Killing Speed...  The quicker the map can be cleared, the more money you can make and the more effective you can be.  The best farmers maximize "Earning Rate".  As it turns out, there is a relationship between difficulty, time needed to clear a map, and earning rate.  Let's take a brief look at that, shall we?


Somewhere along the way, my LBFF dinged 50, and while he was only trained up to L40, he started earning influence again. I decided to do some preliminary testing of his earning rate. Please bear in mind that these numbers are informal, just using the #11612 map. No fiddling with XP or Influence settings, just a simple "see what he started with", "see what he ended with", and "how long it took".


Preliminary / Informal Earnings Chart

Difficulty        Clear Time           Net Infuence          Inf/min
2/8                ~20 mins            ~5 Mil/run        ~250,000/min
3/8                ~26 mins            ~8 Mil/run        ~305,000/min
4/8                ~42 mins            ~10 Mil/run       ~240,000/min


Unsurprisingly, as the difficulty is raised, you earn more influence each time you run the map.  Interestingly, though, the rate earned per minute actually drops when the difficulty is at 4/8. We can see that it took much longer to clear that map at that difficulty. While our LBFF is able to survive it, he's simply not efficient enough there to do it quickly. The chart tells us that he'll actually make more money by running at 3/8, currently.


One other small note for the curious, is that these rates are about 1/6th - 1/8th of what the High-End guys are earning (~1.5-2.5 Mil/min). There are several factors involved in that. First, our build cost is only 20 Million (likely 1/8th, or better, than the likely cost of those builds). Additionally, those builds are also full Incarnates with Tier 4 powers. This LBFF hasn't even trained to L50 yet. 😉 Finally, they're also taking advantage of an XP setting that raises influence.  I honestly don't know what our LBFF's  Earning Rate actually is just yet. That's something I'll explore in a little more depth in our next installment.


In the meanwhile, whether we can do much about that with our last few power picks, also remains to be seen.  At this stage, his Power Pools are set, and our choices are more limited than they were making the L40 build. If possible, we'd still like to bolster his Defense, and we'd like to raise his DPS, without risking his recovery and health. If possible, we'd like to maximize his earning rate at 4/8 difficulty.


I'd also like to say that all of that is a piece of cake with the final build, but after looking at several possibilities, I'm not 100% sure. The one I went with does improve on those things somewhat, but whether it will be enough to achieve those goals is currently unclear.


Nevertheless, lets look at the Final Build and its associated costs


Final L50 LBFF Build

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |


In addition to adding a couple powers to increase damage, regen and endurance, the biggest addition will be adding some Luck of the Gambler sets including 3 of the 7.5% Recharge IOs. The idea is that faster recharging attacks will increase DPS, and hopefully kill the mobs faster.  I also adjusted the macros my LBFF uses, slightly. If you recall, the L25 attack macros *didn't* convert any blues. They were left alone so that some were usually available to help deal with his Endurance problems. Since the L40 build solves those issues, we can now add blues to the conversion process.


On the other hand, since medium Good-Luck inspirations can soft cap our Defenses, I'd like to have some of those available as a bit of a safety net for the higher difficulty situations. They can serve as an "Oh Sh*t!" button if things get dicey. Once again, if you find that you're stockpiling too many of them, simply using the Grn macro will convert them to medium Dramatic-Improvement inspirations (which do get converted in the attack macros).  For reference sake, I've included the list of the 9 macros currently in use on the final L50 build.



L50 Build -- Inspiration / Conversion  Macros


#1: /macro Boom "insp_exec_name enrage$$insp_exec_name Focused_Rage$$insp_exec_name Righteous_Rage"


#2: /macro red "inspcombine Sturdy Enrage$$inspcombine Insight Enrage$$inspcombine Respite Enrage$$inspcombine Luck Enrage$$inspcombine Break_Free Enrage$$inspcombine Catch_A_Breath Enrage"


#3: /macro Red "inspcombine Keen_Insight Focused_Rage$$inspcombine Dramatic_Improvement Focused_Rage$$inspcombine Take_A_Breather Focused_Rage$$inspcombine Rugged Focused_Rage$$inspcombine Emerge Focused_Rage"


#4: /macro blue "inspcombine Sturdy Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Insight Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Respite Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Luck Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Break_Free Catch_A_Breath"


#5: /macro Blue "inspcombine Keen_Insight Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Dramatic_Improvement Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Good_Luck Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Rugged Good_Luck$$inspcombine Emerge Take_A_Breather


#6: /macro purp "inspcombine Sturdy Luck$$inspcombine Insight Luck$$inspcombine Respite Luck$$inspcombine Catch_A_Breath Luck$$inspcombine Break_Free Luck"


#7 /macro Purp "inspcombine Keen_Insight Good_Luck$$inspcombine Dramatic_Improvement Good_Luck$$inspcombine Take_A_Breather Good_Luck$$inspcombine Rugged Good_Luck$$inspcombine Emerge Good_Luck"


#8 /macro grn "inspcombine Sturdy Respite$$inspcombine Insight Respite$$inspcombine Catch_A_Breath Respite$$inspcombine Luck Respite$$inspcombine Break_Free Respite"


#9 /macro Grn "inspcombine Keen_Insight Dramatic_Improvement$$inspcombine Take_A_Breather Dramatic_Improvement$$inspcombine Good_Luck Dramatic_Improvement$$inspcombine Rugged Dramatic_Improvement$$inspcombine Emerge Dramatic_Improvement"


While cash is probably not a big concern for us at this point, I'm still going to get the LotG 7.5% Global Rercharge IOs with Merits (50 each for the 3 of them) picked up by running Tips.  The rest of the set isn't too expensive, so I'll bid for those on the Market.


Here's how the Costs break down.


Name                              Count               Total Cost
LotG Def                        2 Recipes             5,400,222
LotG Def/End                    2  "   "              6,600,222
LotG 7.5% Rch                   3  "   "                 ------  Traded 150 Reward Merits
Harmonized Healing              2  "   "                122,222
Stupefy                         5  "   "                 45,555
Adjusted Targeting              2  "   "                 15,222
Rectified Reticle               2  "   "                202,222
Numina's  Heal                  1  "   "                125,111
Crafting Costs                 19 @ 43,700              830,300
Salvage - Common      (white      @511 ea)               32,193
        - Uncommon    (yellow     @2,111 ea)             33,776
Common IO's           (Recipes & Crafting)              469,655
Total Cost                                           13,876,700


Adding up the cost of the various build phases, our LBFF has cost 34,641,685 influence. Adding in the estimated 3 million for the initial L25 build, brings our final total in at just a little bit north of 37.5 Million, and 210 Reward Merits, which is well under our 50 Million budget. What that bought us is a farmer that is capable of running Fire Farms at 4/8 difficulty (though he should stick to 3/8 for now, at least) and should easily be able to return that investment in pretty short order just running the #11612 mission a few times.




In our final installment, we'll explore the results of the L50 final build, and discuss some ideas for the future as we wrap up our guide.


Stay tuned...

Edited by FourSpeed
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Welcome to the final chapter of our Low Budget Fire Farming Guide.


First, and foremost, if you've followed along from the outset, Thanks for hanging out with me, here.  😉   

Next, if you've actually gone so far as to make and play these builds, I truly hope you had as much fun with them as I did  (and Gratz on L50 if you made the Final Build!). 🙂 


Ok, the Final Build was attempting to squeak out just a little bit more performance, if we could, without breaking anything else. Looking at the planner charts, we were able to eke out a small amount more of Defense, and the Endurance picture improved somewhat (more on that in a bit). The biggest gains though were to his Regen and DPS. The LotG sets, and the extra Numina in health were spendy, but a big help. With the LotG 7.5% recharges, and the 6.25% bonus from Stupefy in CrossPunch, DPS improved noticeably. Fiery Embrace is also a significant damage boost, when it's active. Physical Perfection is helpful for our Health and Endurance recovery. Lastly, I took Tactics purely as a set mule, without any plan to run it. The Adjusted Targeting IOs give a slight boost to Damage, but the Endurance Cost for Tactics is pretty high, and I felt it might offset the modest endurance improvement we had just made. Besides, most of our powers have pretty decent accuracy already. After looking at ToHit rolls on the Combat Chat window though, I find that Tactics does help with accuracy at higher difficulties. So, if you can manage the extra endurance cost (it's not *too* bad), it's useful to run. You can leave it shut off as well, especially for lower difficulty levels, and I don't think it will be too big of a factor.


So, did we help our LBFF?  I think we did, particularly at 3/8 and 4/8. Both of those seem much more manageable to me now.


For curiosity's sake, I re-ran my informal Earning's Rate test, so let's see if the numbers bear that out.  


Preliminary / Informal Earnings Chart

Difficulty        Clear Time           Net Infuence          Inf/min
2/8               21-22 mins           ~6.2 Mil/run        ~290,000/min
3/8               25-26 mins           ~8.3 Mil/run        ~330,000/min
4/8               34-35 mins          ~10.5 Mil/run        ~308,000/min


I believe there are two factors in play here. First, our LBFF is now trained to L50 (he was only trained to L40 in the prior chart). I think that is why the Net Influence column is slightly higher. If the Net is higher, the Rate will be higher for the same amount of time. I was mildly disappointed that times didn't improve as much as I'd have thought (or, at all, at 2/8). However, at the 4/8 difficulty, the completion time was distinctly better, and I believe that reflects the improvements to our attack chain and DPS. For the moment, it still looks like 3/8 is slightly more optimal (on that map, at least), but it's really close, and a little later on, we're going to revisit that in some more detail. 


Before we talk about Future Considerations, however, I'll share a bit of what I learned while playing our LBFF Build in the Fire Farms, and hopefully give you some tips to consider. You already know from the L25 Build, that part of managing him at the higher difficulties is being watchful about *both* his health and endurance - either can get you killed if you're inattentive. We've made several build decisions to help that, to the point where it's really only a factor at 3/8 (somewhat) and at 4/8 (slightly more-so). Still, managing that often comes down to a trade-off between using Consume and Healing Flames (and maybe not having them recharged next time) vs just popping an Inspiration in the tray.


The vast majority of the time, you'll be fine with just the two powers, and in general, unless health or endurance go below half bar, I don't even use them until then. (Note: if Endurance goes below half bar, check how many enemies are still around you -- it *may* be better to finish off the current group, and then pop Consume at the next one). 


If you can though, you want to *avoid* using inspies in your tray, because they are a BIG part of your damage picture, and your Killing Speed. The red/Red/Boom macros are integral to this. You *can* manage it manually, but either way, converting inspies to reds and popping them like crazy is a key element of farming strategy and success (after a good build, of course).

I have two exceptions to that. The first, is that your tray will become clogged occasionally when you get a bunch of singles or pairs of different types and sizes, and pretty soon, you're not converting anything -- that's Bad. At that point, chew two or three of them (I look for loners first). Generally, that will fix it, and you'll be creating reds again.  Second, of course, is if the situation has gone (or is going) badly south. If you're 1/3 bar (or lower), and you don't have HF or Consume ready, that counts. Our macros, intentionally leave Good-Lucks alone, and I usually keep one column of them in reserve. I pop any other Good-Lucks along the way (they're best just before jumping into a large group). Being above the Defense Cap whenever you can goes *a Long Way* towards ensuring a situation never does go south on you. Less often, I'll occasionally pop a blue, and the best time to do that, is after you've thinned out a group, *and* used Healing Flames to restore full health. Popping an extra blue right then, can usually top you right back up on both health and endurance for the next crowd.


For Build-Up and Fiery Embrace, I use them in two distinct approaches. First, both are short duration (10 & 20 secs respectively), so they're best suited for Alpha Strikes or Finishers. In some cases, I'll use them alternatively, BU on the first group, FE on the second. This is usually the case with lower difficulty. On higher difficulty, I like to pop both at the beginning, to maximize DPS, and they're often ready again to help finish off the Boss and/or stragglers toward the end of that fight. 


Finally, the attack chain. As mentioned earlier, the first attacks I use (preferably with BU / FE on them) are Burn and Spine Burst. Then the single target attacks on the toughest guy, until the AoEs are ready again. Rinse and Repeat. For the single attacks, (Crosspunch, Barb Swipe, Lunge and Kick), at least one (or more) of them are almost always ready. Of special note: *Start* your single target attacks with Crosspunch! Unfortunately, CP isn't in Mids/Pines (fully - ie. in the Power Charts) 😞 However, because we have Boxing and Kick in the build, Crosspunch will improve the accuracy of your next 2 or 3 attacks. I have verified that in the Combat Chat screen, and the difference is significant. You could also add Boxing to the attack tray, but neither it or Kick are well slotted, and I preferred the KnockDown of Kick. Since Barb Swipe and Lunge are actually the highest DPS attacks (ahead of Burn), I tend to use those first 3 more often than Kick, anyway.


In "Real Content", this build is just fine now. As mentioned, you want to reset your difficulty level when you leave AE. Whether you go with 0/0, No Solo Bosses, or not is now up to you, but my feeling is that you're NOT going to make more than the 8-10 million / mission that you make in AE, so there's nothing to prove in my book... YMMV   🙂  Again, you'll also want to shut off the inspiration chewing macros when you leave AE. On patrol, I load up with 8 purple, 6 blue, and 6 green (all Mediums). Since I have 195 auction slots, I order those 3 types in lots of 50 (5 groups of 10 each) and keep a supply on hand -- they're cheap, and those purples are a great "Emergency Button".  Speaking of that, you might also want to keep a supply of Focused Rage on hand as well, not for Content, but for Farming. Pop a Good-Luck and a few of those Rages at the Start of your farm, and you can get things off to a nice quick start, if you like. 


That's my Memory Dump from the Farms and "Real Content"....   😄  I truly hope it helps.


Ok. Let's talk about the future -- Now that you're L50 there are several things you'll want to take care of in very short order.


Up until now, your primary source of income has come from sales of rare salvage from AE tickets. At 1500 tickets per run, that's 5 rares every two runs (with a few hundred tickets left over). At ~500K per rare, that's a decent 2.5 million when you sell them. But, looking at the chart above, we can Do Better... Way, Way Better (and you don't even know the half of it yet, pun intended). 😉


So, if you must, make a few more runs with Architect Rewards on, just  to max out your tickets (maybe for later crafting or an alt), but it is definitely time to start selecting Standard Rewards for your AE runs. In addition to the nice Influence payout, you'll also be getting Recipe drops (including the occasional Purple), Converters, and Salvage (including the occasional rares).   


The next thing you'll want to do is Super Jump (don't Sprint or walk 😉) over to Mender Ramiel and open up his mission Arc to unlock Incarnates. If you've never had an Incarnate character before, *now* is definitely the time. 


If you don't have an Ouroboros portal yet, ask in Atlas Park, and someone will usually put one down for you ... Or, you can handle it by yourself. If you have (or are part of) a SuperGroup, you can use the base teleporter to get to Echo-Galaxy City. If you're not in an SG, make one! -- it's Free (no more Prestige reqs) in Atlas Park City Hall. Build a teleporter with the proper beacon (Paragonwiki can help you with all that info, if needed) and you're set. 


In the tram in Echo-Galaxy City, one of the destinations is Ouroboros!   On the very top of the main building's arch in Ouroboros is the Badge location you need, to pick up the portal power.


Talk to Ramiel, do his arc, and unlock iStuff -- mini Spoiler below



In one of those missions, you'll have to contend with 2 Elite Bosses.  If your difficulty is 0/0, No Solo Bosses, they will con Red.  Your LBFF can handle them. I did it by running up, pulling one with the Nemmie Staff, and running away, till we were Mano-a-Mano, LBFF vs EB...  🙂 Use a few of those lucks you're carrying, periodically, to stay above the Cap, and you can take him without too much trouble... Same for the other one.  You may end up with a handful of Rikti as well, but they're no real problem.


Or, you could probably just take a few friends along to help.   Your Call...  🙂  


Now, you'll be getting iXP and opening up those power slots as well. While I've had several Incarnate characters, *none* of them ever unlocked those powers faster than your LBFF will, just by running your normal farm missions. This *will* matter.


Lastly, in your Game Options, in the General Tab at the bottom, are two options, "Disable Earning XP", and "XP While Exemplared". Ensure that the first one is set to "Earn XP", and the second one is set to "Double Influence, No XP" (Note: that will *not* stop you from earning iXP for your Incarnate slots -- iXP is different than normal XP).



One point though. If you want to get a few Vet Levels beyond L50 (they give iThreads and Empyrean Merits needed to craft your iPowers) you'll need to either set your difficulty to 3/8 (to avoid Exemplaring) or turn that "Double Influence, No XP" setting off for awhile as the Vet Levels *are* based on normal XP.


Once you've done that, it's time to revisit that 3/8 vs 4/8 earning rate from our earlier discussion.

If you'll recall, there were several factors affecting those numbers,  (Build, Level, XP Settings, Incarnate levels) some of which, we've started to address.


The prior chart shows us that 3/8 is still slightly better for our LBFF, but it's close. However, if we can handle 4/8, there is a trick.  The Farm Mission Builder sets the level of the mission, when it's made. In both the #11612 mission, that we've been using a lot, and the #2915 5-mission farm that the other thread uses, @brigg set it so that the highest level Bad Guy is L53 (3 levels above our LBFF). At difficulty 3/8, or lower, you go in as your normal L50 and you farm those L53's. However, if you choose 4/8, your Big Bad should be L54 (+4 to you). The mission maxes at L53, so it *cannot* give you a L54 baddie ... So, what happens?  The mission Exemplars YOU to L49, and now, the Bad Guy *is* +4 to you.  The upshot of that is that the Options settings we just discussed *now* take effect in that mission, so instead of XP, you get (roughly) twice the Influence!   Now, let's take a look at our Earning's Rate again using that nifty little game mechanic.


Preliminary / Informal Earnings Chart -- Using the L49 Exemplar Game Mechanic

Difficulty        Clear Time           Net Infuence          Inf/min
2/8               21-22 mins           ~6.2 Mil/run        ~290,000/min
3/8               25-26 mins           ~8.3 Mil/run        ~330,000/min
4/8                35 mins            ~21.3 Mil/run        ~610,000/min

Hmmm... Isn't that interesting?  🙂


Encouraged, I ran the #2915 mission for the first time. Again, I don't have Herostats, so this is purely informal, and unofficial. I learned two things. First, I found this mission to be much easier to run than #11612 for my LBFF. That was great news to me. I also verified his approximate earning rate there.


Mission-Arc #2915 at 4/8 using Exemplar Game Mechanic

Clear Time           Net Infuence          Inf/min
   36 mins          ~21.2 Mil/run        ~589,000/min


Currently, I haven't gotten too far with the iStuff just yet. All of his slots are unlocked, but all I've gotten built so far is a T3 Alpha (Musculature). So, I ran #2915 a second time with that slotted. FYI, Musculature is a Damage boost, and nicer still, a percentage of it ignores ED (Enhancement Diversification)! Finally, the cherry on top is that the T3 (or T4) version of it also gives you a +1 Level Shift which is not factored into the Exemplar mechanic (meaning that you're technically only 3 levels below the Big Bad instead of 4).  


Any predictions on whether this will help much???    😄   Here's your Answer.


Mission Arc - #2915 at 4/8, Exemplared with T3 Alpha slotted

Clear Time           Net Infuence           Inf/min
 26 mins           ~28.0 Mil/run         ~1.07 Million /min


Yeah, that matters...  It gets even better (though my LBFF hasn't gotten there yet). As part of the several iPowers you can choose, you can also get two more Level Shifts along the way.  😄  Now there's something to ponder when we look at that chart. How much can this guy actually earn with 3 Level shifts and a bunch of T3 or T4 Incarnate powers?  



Conclusions  (Finally, and then I'll sthu  🙂 )



To say I'm pleased by the way this project turned out is a huge understatement. Honestly, I'm completely gobsmacked by it. In my craziest imaginings (other than build cost itself) I never imagined he'd turn out this well. When I look back on the original disclaimers, I'd say this guy blew the roof off completely on all counts with:


-- Total Build Cost:  37.5 million (25% under budget), which can be completely and easily self-funded, from scratch, as he levels, in just a few days. Virtually *anyone* can do this.

-- Excellent survivability, and surprisingly, he does better than I ever expected (at L40 build and above) in typical Game content as well.

-- Earning Rate that is insane. I never imagined for a second it could get anywhere close to the High-End. 50% (or better with full Incarnate), is completely surreal to me.

-- Although unstated here, one of my own goals for him (from my other post) is to PL guys on my 2nd account. I started a little of that, and it works great with one disclaimer



If you PL a friend or alt on the #11612 map, DO dial the difficulty down (if you're not fully iPowered). So far 2/8 works best for me atm. The reason is: As soon as you add a teammate, the Primary Bosses become Elite Bosses, and at 3/8 or 4/8, that's a dicey proposition. At 2/8 they're manageable, but it still takes 1/2 as much time again, to run that mission and kill those EB's.   A different AE mission may work better for that, but I've not looked for one as yet.


Finally, where can this guy go?  You guys tell me.


I'd love to hear where you guys take your own LBFF.


Some ideas: You can use him to fund every other alt you ever make 😉 My LBFF was "born" on 10/03/2019 and during the past two weeks working on this guide, he's pulled down 250+ Million Influence (over and above all the Costs discussed here). With that kind of coin coming in, heck, you could even use his free 2nd build (switchable at any Trainer), or one of the free respecs he has already, to raise his game even further, by making one of those very impressive High End builds, discussed in the other Farming thread, for yourself. You might decide to see just how far he can go in the other game content - can he deal with an AV, run the wall in Cimerora, contend with a Rikti Pylon?  Who knows?


It would be great to hear what you guys discover.


Last, but not least, I want to give another shout out to Warlawk and the posters in that other Farming thread, for inspiring this project, along with the AE mission builders (like Brigg and Humble Farmer) who made our own little playgrounds for us, and finally to you readers who've slogged through this guide (once you understand all the info in here, it's actually easier to Do It than explain it, but there ya go). Personally, I had a blast planning these builds, running them, and finally sharing it all with you, while re-learning the very different playstyle that Fire Farming entails. Thanks for your time, attention, and patience. I truly hope you found it helpful.



Happy Fire Farming!


Edited by FourSpeed
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Just one point: You don't need to do Mender Ramiel at all, you unlock Incarnates automatically at 50 and earn Incarnate XP as soon as you train up to 50. My own take on a cheap farmer (followed your ideas but went with a different build (mainly based off one of the hardcore farming builds but with cheaper IOs)) has unlocked all the incarnate slots and reached vet level 3 and now have Alpha and Destiny at t3. I'll need more vet levels to get more t3s.


Was fun following your guide (in principle) I always like to read about why people do thing one way as opposed to another way, helps me work out a build for myself in future. So thanks for the guide.



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7 hours ago, Lost Ninja said:

Just one point: You don't need to do Mender Ramiel at all, you unlock Incarnates automatically at 50 and earn Incarnate XP as soon as you train up to 50. My own take on a cheap farmer (followed your ideas but went with a different build (mainly based off one of the hardcore farming builds but with cheaper IOs)) has unlocked all the incarnate slots and reached vet level 3 and now have Alpha and Destiny at t3. I'll need more vet levels to get more t3s.


Was fun following your guide (in principle) I always like to read about why people do thing one way as opposed to another way, helps me work out a build for myself in future. So thanks for the guide.




I'm glad you enjoyed the guide, thanks.


Also, thanks for the Ramiel information. Good to Know. Oddly enough for me, I didn't appear to be getting any iXP or threads and stuff. My Alpha Slot also kept showing 0% progress, so I'm not sure what the situation was -- As soon as I started Ramiel's arc (before even finishing it), it seemed to be working properly at that point. Go Figure.


I'd heard you didn't need it anymore either, so I'm not sure what was going on. I guess it's worth watching, when you first ding 50 -- if you start getting iXP, cool, and if not, the arc isn't too hard to run for the LBFF.  



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  • 4 months later

Sorry for the necromantic noobishness, but where can I find more information about "Tip Missions" for the merits I'll need  for phase II?



Edited by Targren

@Penumbra Faust (main)

@Misty Mina (Secondary/Farmer)

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2915 +4x8 should be ~50 mil per run IIRC. Not sure why you're coming away with less than that.


Also just FYI, the other level shifts only apply in incarnate content, they won't work in AE. The +1 from alpha is all you get.

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12 hours ago, nzer said:

2915 +4x8 should be ~50 mil per run IIRC. Not sure why you're coming away with less than that.


Also just FYI, the other level shifts only apply in incarnate content, they won't work in AE. The +1 from alpha is all you get.


Yep. That's about what I make on it, in total, these days.  The number from earlier was with *just* his Alpha slotted. These days, he is fully T3'd (which is good enough for the budget build), and that does make it noticeably more effective, although I haven't bothered to check the rate since those prior posted numbers.


22 hours ago, Targren said:

Sorry for the necromantic noobishness, but where can I find more information about "Tip Missions" for the merits I'll need  for phase II?



I'm not too sure which info you need?  In a nutshell, when you defeat mobs (L20 or higher), there is a chance that you will get a Tip Mission -- you can see them in your Contacts List under the Tips tab.

You can have 3 (normal) Tip Missions in your list at any one time. Each time you run & clear one (they're usually fairly quick to run), you gain an Alignment point. Once you clear 10 of those missions, your next Tip will be a Morality Mission.  When you clear that one, you get 40 Reward Merits.  Paragonwiki has info on Tips -->  Here.


Hope that helps.






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28 minutes ago, FourSpeed said:

Yep. That's about what I make on it, in total, these days.

I'm confused, why would the total ever be different? Killing things slower doesn't mean you're killing fewer things, you should be getting exactly the same inf from a 10 minute clear as a 4 minute clear.

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37 minutes ago, nzer said:

I'm confused, why would the total ever be different? Killing things slower doesn't mean you're killing fewer things, you should be getting exactly the same inf from a 10 minute clear as a 4 minute clear.

That's a good question, and tbh, I'm not sure why there are differences.  That said, I did encounter differences earlier as well, which I did mention in one of the posts. 

Also, keep in mind that the rate / earning numbers were completely informal - I don't have herostats installed, so at best, count them as advisory rather than scientific claims.  😉


I can confirm though that I earn 10M per each of the 5 missions on the #2915 arc with the current LBFF build -- so 50M total for the full arc. 


EDIT:  As I think about this some more, it is probably  that that rate number was done with the No XP / Double Influence While Exemplared switch OFF, or I simply could have mixed up the measurements (due to that switch being mis-set when I thought it was on).  Maybe I'll sit down on of these days with the finished build and re-run those tests.




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On 3/6/2020 at 11:17 AM, FourSpeed said:


I'm not too sure which info you need?  In a nutshell, when you defeat mobs (L20 or higher), there is a chance that you will get a Tip Mission -- you can see them in your Contacts List under the Tips tab.

You can have 3 (normal) Tip Missions in your list at any one time. Each time you run & clear one (they're usually fairly quick to run), you gain an Alignment point. Once you clear 10 of those missions, your next Tip will be a Morality Mission.  When you clear that one, you get 40 Reward Merits.  Paragonwiki has info on Tips -->  Here.


Hope that helps



It does help a lot, thank you. One last dumb question: do tips drop in AE as well or should I be venturing out into the city to try and get them?


Edit: Make that two: is the new buff to AE mob damage going to give the build any problems (I'm still in phase I grinding levels up)

Edited by Targren
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My recollection is that Tips do not drop in AE missions. You have to venture out into the "real world" of content.


I'm not aware of the new buff you're talking about - I last ran the LBFF a few days ago, and it was fine.  Future patches may well have an effect, but that would need to be tested once the patch is on the server.




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5 hours ago, FourSpeed said:

I'm not aware of the new buff you're talking about - I last ran the LBFF a few days ago, and it was fine.  Future patches may well have an effect, but that would need to be tested once the patch is on the server.




It was in yesterday's Beta Patch Notes. I'm still new, so I'm not sure when those will hit live (or if they already have, being greentext) but



AE Damage Fix

  • Fixed several issues that caused custom critters in Architect Entertainment to deal damage that's inconsistent with their non-custom counterparts
  • Generally all enemies were dealing less damage than they should apart from ranged minions, this has now been corrected
  • See the tables below for the impact of enemies at level 20, 50, and 54
Level 20 Melee Damage Change Ranged Damage Change
Minion +12% -4%
Lieutenant  +12% +1%
Boss -10% -32%
Elite Boss No Change No Change
AV No Change No Change


Level 50 Melee Damage Change Ranged Damage Change
Minion +12% -4%
Lieutenant  +12% +1%
Boss +44% +8%
Elite Boss +29% +8%
AV +82% +47%


Level 54 Melee Damage Change Ranged Damage Change
Minion +12% -4%
Lieutenant  +12% +1%
Boss +51% +13%
Elite Boss +29% +8%
AV +95% +58%


@Penumbra Faust (main)

@Misty Mina (Secondary/Farmer)

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Just at a glance, the only items there that catch my eye are the L50 & L54 Bosses with Melee Damage at 44% & 51% increases respectively.

The LBFF isn't an AV killer, or really even an EB killer (though it can handle some of the latter in small doses), and the increases for the others look largely insignificant to me.


We'll have to see if that has a meaningful effect, or not.  It may slow things down a bit, and / or  you may need to use more Purple Inspies if necessary, but I don't really see it being a major issue.

At worst, you might need to drop difficulty down a notch if it becomes too troublesome.


That said, bear in mind that the LBFF is *not* a "Be all, End all" Farming Build.  It's designed A> To help interested newcomers learn the ropes,  B> To be self-funded, and very affordably cheap, and finally, to help make the new farmer both Rich Enough, and Experienced Enough (fairly quickly) to advance to one of the more Uber Farming builds if they find they have any further interest in doing that.





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On 3/10/2020 at 4:00 AM, FourSpeed said:

Just at a glance, the only items there that catch my eye are the L50 & L54 Bosses with Melee Damage at 44% & 51% increases respectively.


We'll have to see if that has a meaningful effect, or not.  It may slow things down a bit, and / or  you may need to use more Purple Inspies if necessary, but I don't really see it being a major issue.

At worst, you might need to drop difficulty down a notch if it becomes too troublesome.


That said, bear in mind that the LBFF is *not* a "Be all, End all" Farming Build.  It's designed A> To help interested newcomers learn the ropes,  B> To be self-funded, and very affordably cheap, and finally, to help make the new farmer both Rich Enough, and Experienced Enough (fairly quickly) to advance...

Yeah, it was more the boss buff that had me wondering. I'm still working my way up that high and figuring things out.


I really appreciate the time you put into the build, and to responding. I'm not really out to be an Uber-farmer. I'm just a newbie who needed a way to finance my altaholism until I find my niche, and this looks like it's just what I needed. So thank you for this.


@Penumbra Faust (main)

@Misty Mina (Secondary/Farmer)

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On 3/11/2020 at 8:53 AM, Targren said:

I really appreciate the time you put into the build, and to responding. I'm not really out to be an Uber-farmer. I'm just a newbie who needed a way to finance my altaholism until I find my niche, and this looks like it's just what I needed. So thank you for this.


Thank You. You're exactly the type of player I was writing the guide for, and I'm very gratified and pleased that you found it useful. 


On 3/10/2020 at 12:19 PM, robopop said:

Hi, I enjoyed reading your guide. I have created several fire farmers myself, of different archetypes and powersets, sometimes bargain and sometimes not. I'm going to offer some constructive feedback, and I hope you'll get excited by the potential for making this beginner farming build even more of a monster.


I think this final build makes three general mistakes, ones that I have made many times and that I'm sure I will make a few times more:
     1. Overslotting for endurance. END shortages are such a pain when leveling up. However, when you get access to incarnate powers (specifically Ageless), those problems can go away completely. The fire farmer also has Consume to tide her over. However, it's just reality that you gotta keep an eye on the blue bar. The only times I've gotten to the point where I don't need to think at all about END is when I've made too many trade-offs to do so, which might start reflecting on my green bar, or in the slowness which which I go through enemies. My 50+ vet level fire farmer still has to think about END... which involves clicking the Ageless button every two minutes or clicking Consume if the blue bar gets a bit low (usually corresponding to Hasten expiration). I think you can get quite a bit more out of your build if you shift some END and recovery bonuses to damage or defense. Also, powers like superior conditioning and physical perfection are very low impact (i.e. they don't do any damage). I used to take those powers, then I stopped, and now I wonder why I ever took them to start.
     2. Slotting for too-small bonuses. Whether slotting an enhancement to improve the power or to get a set bonus - ideally both! - I ask what kind of bonus I'm getting and is it better than the bonus I'd get if I put the slot in a different power. Take a look at "Combat Jumping"... there are currently three defense IOs slotted there. There are two issues. First, CJ offers a small bonus, so there is limited value in prioritizing enhancement of it's +1.88% defense value. Second, there is ED to think about. If you're not sure what ED is (stands for "enhancement diversification"), Google it and you'll be glad you did. Short story, after two IOs, the next ones offer diminishing returns. They are almost useless by the fourth IO. In your build, CJ is enhanced four times (the global recharge enhancement includes a defense buff), meaning the last IO adds only .1% to CJ's defense bonus. On most days, I'd argue you're going to find a better deal elsewhere. In evaluating all this, don't forget to use Mids to adjust the level of all IOs to 50 for your end build. There's a big difference between 30 and 50 when it comes to ED. At level 30, you get some value out of that third slot. At level 50, very little.
     3. Gimping a power to get bonuses. Cross Punch is a prime example here. You're making a build that doesn't have access to the big recharge bonuses in the purple IO sets, so it makes sense to use Cross Punch as an additional AoE, so that you always have one available. However, in this build, it's slotted with Stupefy, which doesn't have any damage bonuses, which greatly constrains the advantages you can get out of Cross Punch. Better to use another set of Scirroco's. That will both give you bonuses AND enhance the power to where it's going to give you some real value.

In terms of a fire farmer build specifically, one doesn't need to prioritize anything besides fire defense and resistance. For instance, the Kinetic Combats make your hero more well-rounded in terms of playing outside the AE (because of the S/L defense), but as you say, the farmer spends most or all of his career in the AE. You only need the 1.5% resist at 2 slots, not the (incredible) 3.75% S/L defense for 5 slots. Also, there is little need to prioritize slotting of single target attacks. Pressing the button for a single target attack is practically a waste of time when there are at least 10 mobs around you at all times. Ideally, your AoEs recharge so quickly that one is available instantly after another has finished. Now, it's hard to get that kind of recharge without those purple IO sets, but that's why you took Cross Punch, right?


I took the liberty of adjusting your build a bit (I might steal it myself). I'd love to hear your feedback. Here are some notes on changes:

  Reveal hidden contents

     - Endurance changes. I removed most of the slotting specifically for endurance. Instead I did things like choose all the endurance modifiers in the Aegis enhancements for Fire Shield, since you don't need any extra fire resistance. I also added a Performance Shifter:Chance for +END to Stamina, and a Miracle:+Recovery to Health. These are both efficient sources of END recovery. They're a bit expensive, but not 25 million expensive, and you can get bargains if you craft or are patient with your bids.
     - Reduced extra slotting. Mostly I took out the third enhancement, when there was one (exception for Hasten, which you want to squeeze desperately for reccharge). These slots went into the other projectss... fire defense and new AoEs.
     - Fire defense changes. I slotted a lot more fire defense, removing that S/L defense that is of such limited value in the AE. Consequently Barb Swipe and Lunge were... eviscerated, but as I said above, ST attacks are of such little value in AE. The slots went into things like slotting Healing Flames with Aegis (Flames does have a toxic resistance component, which you can slot), fully slotting Cross Punch, and slotting up the new AoEs.
     - New AoEs. In exchange for emasculating Barb Swipe and Lunge, I got two new AoE's for Ol MacDonald: Electric Fences and Ball Lighting. These are slotted with nice, cheap Positrons, which provide 6.25% recharge. A good bargain set for a targeted AoE. Ol MacDonald will last-shot a lot more enemies with Ball Lightning than he did with Superior Conditioning! 🙂 To open the Mu patron powers, you'll have to do a patron arc; Black Scorpion's is recommended. I set the difficulty to -1/+0 and cruised through in like 30 minutes. Any friends who come along on the final mission also get the patron pools unlocked (for the character they use).
     - A trade-off. I exchanged Kick for Tough. This was a "tough" choice because it means Cross Punch doesn't get the 15% damage buff for having Kick. Still, Tough is an easy place to slot those three Aegis enhancements and ultimately get your fire defense to 41%. You can decide if you'd rather have +15% damage on your Cross Punch or 41% instead of 38% fire resistance (I'd obviously choose the latter, and that's from the experience know that it can be hard to stay alive at +4/x8 with less than 45% defense... the lower, the harder).
     - Cross Punch: got a Scirroco's Dervish set. It is now both giving a +1.5% fire defense bonus and doing a boatload of damage.
     - Also: Did I mention there are two new AoEs? 🙂
     - Kismet accuracy. I changed the base to-hit value in Mid's (it's in options, under "Exemping and base values") from 75 to 39. I'm not sure if that gets reflected in the export. You have a 39% chance to his a +4 level enemy, so I like to check that I'll be able to hit. The numbers showed me that you might want a Kismet +6% accuracy global, so I added one. If you always run with Tactics on, you might not need it, but you might decide that you don't even need the END drain of Tactics, when you  have the Kismet. I'm not sure which is best; I'd need to try it both ways myself.

     - Gladiator's Armor. Okay, this enhancement - that gives an insane +3% defense to everything - is not a starter build enhancement; it retails for 14 million to 16 million. But  you can get one for 10 if you let your bid sit for a bit. In any case, maybe not everyone can afford it right away, but it's something to leave a spot for. It is incredibly valuable.

    - KB protection. I put KB protection in flight, allowing me to move the slot reserved for the Steadfast KB protection out of... I forget which resistance power it was in. That one.


That's it. I hope that's grist for the mill (whatever grist is). I'd love to hear your thoughts.


And here's the modified build. There are two unassigned slots for... whatever. Regen or more defense, if possible.


  Reveal hidden contents


Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Spines Fire: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Barb Swipe -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Lunge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Spine Burst -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(5), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(7), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(17), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Blazing Aura -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(7), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(17), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9), Ksm-ToHit+(33)
Level 10: Healing Flames -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(11), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(27), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Temperature Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(13), Ags-ResDam(15), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 20: Plasma Shield -- Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(34), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Quills -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(23), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(23), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(29), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 24: Consume -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(25), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(25), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Obl-%Dam(31)
Level 26: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Ags-ResDam(33)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 35: Electrifying Fences -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(36), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), PstBls-Dam%(37), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 38: Burn -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(39), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(39), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(40), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50)
Level 44: Cross Punch -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(45), ScrDrv-Dam%(45), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(45), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-End%(3)




Hi. I'm glad you enjoyed my guide, and you raise some interesting points, some of which I can agree with, and some of which I disagree with -- or, perhaps choose a different focus and priority than you did. I wanted to think about your comments and take some time to look at the build you suggested before posting a reply.


In general, I agree that overslotting can be inefficient, or perhaps sub-optimal in most cases. On the other hand, it also depends. If that extra 1/2% of damage kills the mob in one less attack, then over time, it still may be worthwhile. One extra % of Defense may be worth an extra (mostly wasted) slot if you're soft-capping.  Usually though, I agree, it more often isn't.  In this case, CJ is probably overslotted (I'd forgotten that the Recharge IO also adds +Def).  I could probably find a better spot for it, but it's not too big a deal (imho). 


Also, having played the Live Game continuously from open beta until shutdown, I'm quite familiar with both ED and Mids (or, in this case Pine's -- where these builds were designed). A point of clarification about ED I'd like to add, because I see this thinking in players a lot, is that the Number of IOs has nothing to do with ED. It is completely based on the Percentage of improvement you're trying to achieve. For Schedule A, ED doesn't even kick in until you reach 70% and hits harder and harder the closer you try to get to 100%.  So, for instance, using L15 IOs (19.2% each), you won't have any ED effects at all, until you put the 4th IO (of the same type) in, and it's minimal, even then. Whereas with L50 IOs (@42.4% each) you will start seeing definite ED effects as soon as you slot a 2nd one.  The so called "Rule of Three" is really just a convenient rule of thumb based on the idea of even level SO's (at 33% each) where you see ED effects with the 3rd one and the 4th one is severely degraded (since Schedule A's pretty much limit you to max improvement of ~100%).


When we get to CrossPunch, opinions start to vary more. First, Pine's doesn't seem to cover that power properly (it won't show up in Power Graphs, for instance), so it's difficult to determine how effective it actually is (especially at the time I did this guide). In my version of Pines, it only shows it doing some 34 damage points, in your build - fully slotted. Barb Swipe, fully slotted shows 167 in my build, so it's pretty easy to see why I didn't care about its damage. What I *did* care about was its knockdown, and the fact that since Boxing & Kick are in the build, it improves the other, more damaging attacks for a few seconds. At some point, I'd like to look at that in an updated version of Mids, but at the time this guide was done, I went off the info that I had.


I think we disagree on the value of the single attacks. Certainly, you don't want to skip the AoEs like Quills, Burn, Spine Burst, and even the incarnate Judgement power, but in terms of raw DPS Barb Swipe and Lunge far surpass ALL of the other attacks. If you're using those on the toughest guy(s) in turn, while your AoEs are also chipping away at the masses, I think that has value.  When I look at Consume, as a damage power, it has, again by far, the worst DPS of everything, and personally, I feel that those slots are better in something else entirely. That said, Ball Lightning and Electric Fences do deserve some thinking about though their DPS is on the lowish side, but more AoE might be worth it. I didn't think about doing any Patron Arcs, hence Energy Mastery. That's an interesting thought though. I did consider the Kismet, but I found it's unnecessary once Tactics is in there. Monitoring "Last Hit Chance" shows that even with the EB's, your chance to hit is 95% (the max -- there is *always* a 5% chance to miss a target) once you've used CrossPunch.


Of course, that's the fun thing about builds -- they're very personal, and can really differ based on the perspective of the builder.  As long as they're effective for the intended purpose, it's all to the good (imho). So, disagreement here is *not* really criticism but rather a difference in our perspectives. For instance, I like that the LBFF build has higher HP, END, and Regen than the build you posted, although I *would* like to have the higher Fire Def your build has -- Instead, the philosophy there is just pop a Med Luck and carry on. Different perspectives... 😉


Also, when I look at your build, I can't help but feel that you forgot several of the primary elements of what the LBFF was trying to achieve.


1> The design criteria was intentionally avoiding Purple, PVP, or Attuned IOs, and most of the higher priced IOs


2> MAX budget for cost was set at 50M (or less).  Final Cost ~38M

-- The Gladiator's Armor IO you have costs 10M+  (looking on AH today)

-- The Frozen Blast ATO's you have cost 20M+ per IO  (120M+ just for that set)


3> The IOs the build did use were intentionally set at L30, to put them on par with SO strength, and reduce crafting costs.

--  The L50's you use in your build, do pay off in reduced slotting needs, sure, but they also cost 10X as much to craft (454K inf vs 40K)


4> This was intended as an Introductory Build, that would scale as the new farm player learns the ropes.  All the Uber Builds are in WarLawk's thread. 🙂 I simply wanted a cheap, simple build that would be effective and instructive. I'd expect "graduates" of this guide to progress to one of those builds if they're really into the farming aspect of things, or have something they could use effectively for casual farming when they feel like it occasionally.


Finally, Thanks for your post. It really was interesting, and I very much appreciate that you took the time to put together a different build for discussion.  In the end, as I said, builds can be very personal, and if the build you're using works for you, then it really is accomplishing its goal.





Edited by FourSpeed
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Hi FourSpeed, I deleted my post as, on reflection, I think it didn't follow the spirit of your guide, which is an excellent adjunct to Warlawk's thread. Sorry about that! Thanks again for your guide, best of luck to you, and look for Max Hazard, Pyrohawk, or Fuchsia Flame in the City (Excelsior) and say hi! Cheers!

- Robopop


P.S. I do love the "crunch" of a good Cross Punch, and have tried it out and kept it on some of my builids. So, especially thanks for that.

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Hi Robopop,


Sorry you deleted that post. I didn't think it was off-topic at all. As mentioned, I thought it was quite interesting, and might serve as a good thought provoker for other folks reading this Guide. In that regard, I'm glad I quoted it, so it isn't lost entirely.


I'm always interested in seeing other builds because if there is a truism in CoH, we can thank Larry Wall (founder of Perl) for sharing it -- "There is more than one way to do it!" (Timtowdi) 😉 That is just as accurate in our game, and I often enjoy analyzing those builds to see how the player prioritized the various challenges and compromises involved in building a character for a specific purpose.  


I do agree that some of the ideas in your build were beyond what we were doing with the LBFF as I outlined, but there are several points that were also worth considering.  The idea that does intrigue me is the two Electric AoE's. I honestly never even thought about doing a Patron arc (although I should have, having read Warlawk's thread, but there ya go)  😉 Since I have two identical LBFF's (one on each of my two accounts), I may just look into respecing one and comparing the two. That might make an interesting side project, and a little add-on for the Guide in a supplemental sort of way.


I'd definitely say Hi in-game, but I only play on Indomitable currently, so it's less likely we'll run into each other, but I really do appreciate you stopping in and sharing your thoughts here.






PS>  I really like Crosspunch as well, and it's fun when you get that solid "Thwack!" sound, and the guy falls down.  I do want to revisit the damage on it (I wonder if Mid's Reborn has it right?) and see if it is worth reslotting -- it is *definitely* worth taking even so, but good damage would make it even better.


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On 10/14/2019 at 5:38 PM, FourSpeed said:

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;982;436;872;HEX;| |78DA9592D94EC2401486A750A86CB20914A3068DA2116DDCEE8D0A181350121EA06| |96084264D216D49E4D217F2CEF5095C12DFC4E50DEAA17320D8C60B2769FFF69BF3| |9F396766EA57E5E8CDE9F521E122279A629AF2B131B0A870AE580343D1FC8490D88| |5B65EA82BAD724F57B4B60024E5C4C875AA512A35FBAA4E4D91A132BDA4BA49A5AA| |4A8DA17C042992677A971A54B7A4F147B4D1EB69528D2A60EC849D9F669FD2767CC| |CDBD430BB6A3FE6FC57D54ED782C07CA5AFB6A48A4E8DCE50AE2BA6355AC0595484| |8AD6E0792E121C364FE641449EF89699CE2C328DA2CEA2DE8EC239C743C816632F4| |544908773E5E1D11776E579058F9F79027EF4F0E809BA3C09D414CEDF8104580D81| |007A837FD4EDF666E13804AC5F5862EC1E24C46A21A155C61E40222CCE17C13EE75| |C9A835C31F4C536187B83BEE2C8E27B8CAD405C1259B2C4D823481AEB4863BE77F0| |6670CD0CF6951DD78D7D3C81E49C9DB37DB9026362E9B7DA3048DE79DBFF190BFCE| |43E109664D343763C64D743F63DE4C043AA23C2397DD8B5E959ECB7C14FEE14E1B0| |AF50627267EC8F30CCE3FE71DB6CFE6B9AE1397E4E333CA3EF69867BF8039AA8CA2| |A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|


I tried importing this into Mid's but got an error. Said it was "Outside the bounds of the array".


Also I only got the Architect tickets on my first 2 runs. All runs after that gave zero tickets. 

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Sounds like something isn't right there.  It looks like your "copy" is a bit weird...  I'm using Version 2.23 of Pine's Hero Designer.  As far as I know, that is the last version prior to them switching over to Mid's Reborn (which I haven't looked at yet).  Looking at your paste above, it looks distinctly different in format than my paste in the guide.  So, I'd re-try your copy, and double-check the version of Pine's you're using...  I just verified that the Final Build pasted in the Guide imports correctly with my version of Pine's using the "Import from Forum Post" option.


The AE tickets issue also seems odd.  


When you select the AE mission from the list, it should pop up a dialog asking you about rewards with the choices being "Standard Rewards" & "Architect Rewards". If you want tickets, you select the latter choice. If you want normal drops, you choose the first option. 

Also check your inventory -- there is a maximum limit (9999) on how many tickets you can have on your character before you need to exchange them.


Other than that, I can't think of any reason you wouldn't get AE tickets for a mission if you select the correct Rewards option and you have room for AE tix in your inventory.




Edited by FourSpeed
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5 hours ago, FourSpeed said:

I'm using Version 2.23 of Pine's Hero Designer. 


Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build

I tried Mid's because that's what you said to do in the Guide. I'll give Pine's a try.


As for the tickets, I did choose Architect rewards, got the 500+ tickets the first map, 250ish on the second map and zero tickets on the space map and all runs afterward. I swapped the tickets I had for rare salvage like you said so it's not a space issue. 

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Pine's was the HC replacement for the old Mid's.  If I'm not mistaken, it's actually the same codebase that Mid's was based on, but reworked & updated for use with the HC servers (but don't quote me). They've since moved on to "Mid's Reborn", but Pine's 2.23 still works for these builds.


As for the AE tickets, I've no idea what the issue might be there -- I've not had (or even heard of) that particular issue, and afaik, none of the other posters have had a problem.

You might want to follow that up with HC support. I can't think of any reason it would be related to the build, assuming your settings are correct.




Edited by FourSpeed
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im following the guide almost 50 (still on lvl 40 cap) and the prices of the sets have go up sadly , while i gained some millions im still millions behind the lvl 40 build, like u said prices varies 🙂 , atm going with full IO  😄 , im farming 0/8 with easy , tried +1/8 and 0 issues , at 50 gonna work on enhancing the build a bit


anyway  thanks! great guide !



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