Sorry not sorry

[Solarverse]

10 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I try to see the face value and the deeper intent, as the meta is all that matters to me.

As I stated, how we treat each other is all that matters in my delusion.

Motivations as to why humans choose to take out thier 'aggresions/stress/FUD' on other players in MMOs fascinates me.

 

If I looked in to it deeper though, even without my initial request to the player, just by asking the team if they are okay with it would also imply my discontent to the way said player is playing. So how would one find out if this players is meshing well with the team without making my opinion obvious? That could get very tricky.

 

It almost reminds me of my job. My job is to troubleshoot and analyze RF signals to modems and cable boxes in order to determine a problem with their functionality. However, if I find the issue is with the modem and not the signals to that modem, and if a customer owns their own modem (use this as an example as a player going against the grain of the rest of the team) and I determine that our systems are working as intended, I am not permitted by our company to tell the customer that their modem is the cause of their issues. I have to dance around that subject and hope they themselves come to that conclusion, without me stating it. Trust me, those are insanely tricky conversations to have with a customer. I believe having this conversation with the team could be equally tricky with a team concerning a player. No matter how you ask the team, it's going to seem I am trying to coerce them in to seeing things my way.

 

Now keep in mind, this is only if I look in to this too hard. Personally, I find most people say what they think with or without my input.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Solarverse

[Erratic1]

45 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Sure, that rubs both ways though.

 

Not really, as I am not here demanding that me having fun outweighs everyone else's complaints.

 

45 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

The whole point IMO is that no one is 'right'.

In the abstract, perhaps. But we are talking about team play. The idea of a team is that you are working together towards a common goal. In pursuit of that, one should be prepared to accommodate others AND expect a certain amount of accommodation in exchange. If one person having "fun" annoys everyone else in the group...why did that person join the group? 

 

I have three dozen characters and play most ATs. I get to experience the wide range of what players do which is annoying. Most times it's small things and I tell myself, "Its not making that much difference" and carry on. As example, I really wish when I am playing my Tanker that Controllers would wait two or three seconds after I get to a group of foes for those foes to gather near me before Immobilizing them since that means I can keep aggro directed at me as opposed to the fringes of a slightly scattered group deciding they will take interest in the group's ranged attackers. Buy if the group is not having problems with fringe, ranged fire I tolerate it.

 

I have a Kinetics Defender who has Repel. It is a lot of fun going, "Bowlng for Nazis!" and scattering groups like bowling pins. Know how often I do that in group play? Only when the group is being overwhelmed and knocking a bunch of opponents down will decrease incoming attacks. Otherwise I position myself with the ranged attackers to prevent stray melee from approaching because just knocking everything around for no other purpose than "fun" (a) does not accomplish the group goal and (b) annoys everyone else. Likewise  on my Gravity Dominator I do not use Dimension Shift willy-nilly because it would be fun but rather when an unintended second spawn gets pulled.

 

Quote

The moment someone talks about doing anything 'efficiently' on anything other than a dedicated speed run of some kind, they turn the game into a job or a task, not super-happy-fun-time, IMO.

 The last three letters are the key--it's your opinion. A group is more than just you.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Erratic1

[jubakumbi]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

In the abstract, perhaps. But we are talking about team play. The idea of a team is that you are working together towards a common goal. In pursuit of that, one should be prepared to accommodate others AND expect a certain amount of accommodation in exchange. If one person having "fun" annoys everyone else in the group...why did that person join the group? 

As I have stated, over and over, no one person should in any way be making other in the team dance to thier tune.

 

However, you bring up the team 'goal'.

My only goal is to have fun killing pixels and laughing.

Therfore, any team that is defeating enemies is fun for me, even if we are getting wiped.

 

IME, all of these arguments boil down to what, in fact, the 'goal' really is...

IME, the goal for people that complain about these things is getting the maximum rewards or DPS.

 

So, again, whos goal is more important?

If the goal is to beat the content, then how is using powers that beat the content an issue?

I mean, that is the only real goal in terms of getting rewards, beating the content.

 

IME, it's the people that simply cannot abide having the flow of the team go exactly the way they want it to go that start adding these 'house rules'.

They bring on the issues, not a player just having fun with KB, a fundamental part of the game.

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

However, you bring up the team 'goal'.

My only goal is to have fun killing pixels and laughing.

Therfore, any team that is defeating enemies is fun for me, even if we are getting wiped.

 

And the other seven people on the team who do mind? 

 

If you are not making others dance to your tune, seems clear to me you should not be taking actions which make it increase the likelihood of wiping.

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Not really, as I am not here demanding that me having fun outweighs everyone else's complaints.

 

In the abstract, perhaps. But we are talking about team play. The idea of a team is that you are working together towards a common goal. In pursuit of that, one should be prepared to accommodate others AND expect a certain amount of accommodation in exchange. If one person having "fun" annoys everyone else in the group...why did that person join the group? 

 

I have three dozen characters and play most ATs. I get to experience the wide range of what players do which is annoying. Most times it's small things and I tell myself, "Its not making that much difference" and carry on. As example, I really wish when I am playing my Tanker that Controllers would wait two or three seconds after I get to a group of foes for those foes to gather near me before Immobilizing them since that means I can keep aggro directed at me as opposed to the fringes of a slightly scattered group deciding they will take interest in the group's ranged attackers. Buy if the group is not having problems with fringe, ranged fire I tolerate it.

 

I have a Kinetics Defender who has Repel. It is a lot of fun going, "Bowlng for Nazis!" and scattering groups like bowling pins. Know how often I do that in group play? Only when the group is being overwhelmed and knocking a bunch of opponents down will decrease incoming attacks. Otherwise I position myself with the ranged attackers to prevent stray melee from approaching because just knocking everything around for no other purpose than "fun" (a) does not accomplish the group goal and (b) annoys everyone else. Likewise  on my Gravity Dominator I do not use Dimension Shift willy-nilly because it would be fun but rather when an unintended second spawn gets pulled.

 

 The last three letters are the key--it's your opinion. A group is more than just you.

You are a man/woman after my own heart. Your play style and mine would match perfectly. Your stance on this subject also mimics mine perfectly. I wish more players would see where we are coming from on this, but sadly it does not seem they do. It seems that "anything goes, just deal with it" is the new gamer's way these days. You and I are clearly of the old school unwritten rules of MMO gaming. Problem is, those old school rules didn't sem to pass down to the next generation of gamers very well and we are looked at as "militant."

[Solarverse]

7 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

 

My only goal is to have fun killing pixels and laughing.

 

 

Can I see a video of this? I think it would bring tears of laughter to my eyes if I seen you in a video killing pixels and laughing.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Your point is not backed by evidence. I may be wrong, but neither one of you can prove your points without a controlled testing environment.

Come on, it's common sense.  Multiple people managing aggro to pull mobs into the bowl. vs one solo person.   One person is simply not going to override all of that aggro to the degree the league is going to lose out on less than a handful of XP/Inf/merits.

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Come on, it's common sense.  Multiple people managing aggro to pull mobs into the bowl. vs one solo person.   One person is simply not going to override all of that aggro to the degree the league is going to lose out on less than a handful of XP/Inf/merits.

Common sense? Let's not go there, man. I think it is common sense that a player goes with the grain of the team...but it would seem players today don't feel this way. Old school gamers like myself live by old rules that players these days don't seem to care about. So let's not go with common sense as a defense. I refrained from using it before, I restrained with all my might not to use common sense as a defense tool...but since you brought it up....yeah, common sense indeed.

 

With that note, I am going to go on ahead and bow out of this conversation, as I see this conversation deadlocked. No hard feelings for anyone here, I just think we will never see eye to eye on proper team etiquette and I think it's time for me to leave this battle of wits.

 

Take care, my man. I'm gonna retreat so that I may live to fight the good fight another day.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Lines said:

Best case: 12 herds, 204 merits, 2,221,723xp,  (assuming as a worst case scenario that all the herds are lt level and no bosses or EBs were herded)

Worst case: 5 herds, 85 merits, 925,718xp

 

That's a difference of 119 merits and 1,296,005xp between my best and my worst performance, the biggest contributor being when herds are interrupted.

No way this can be measured accurately unless you're going to be the only one taunting on a raid under very controlled circumstances.

Totally ignores kills made by your teammates from mobs pulled in by others on the raid.  These "losses" are easily made up and then some.

You can lose agro to another league player just as easily as someone soloing.

the problem with hypotheticals like this is that they are hypothetical. 

 

1 guy running around the bowl isn't stealing all the cookies from everyone.

 

[ShardWarrior]

21 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Common sense? Let's not go there, man. I think it is common sense that a player goes with the grain of the team...but it would seem players today don't feel this way. Old school gamers like myself live by old rules that players these days don't seem to care about. So let's not go with common sense as a defense. I refrained from using it before, I restrained with all my might not to use common sense as a defense tool...but since you brought it up....yeah, common sense indeed.

I'm not using it as a defense for anything.  I'm simply refuting the notion that one person is somehow ruining the whole raid because one person soloing is having a huge impact on the rewards for those in the league.  It's a drop of a drop at best. 

[Lines]

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I'm not using it as a defense for anything.  I'm simply refuting the notion that one person is somehow ruining the whole raid because one person soloing is having a huge impact on the rewards for those in the league.  It's a drop of a drop at best. 

But I didn’t say that. I was always clear on my irritation, and reward had nothing to do with it.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

But I didn’t say that. I was always clear on my irritation, and reward had nothing to do with it.

I understand your frustration perfectly nor am I saying you shouldn't feel the way you do.  I will say I find it odd that someone soloing who may or may not pull aggro from you is somehow different than a fellow league member doing the very same thing.

[Lines]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

I understand your frustration perfectly nor am I saying you shouldn't feel the way you do.  I will say I find it odd that someone soloing who may or may not pull aggro from you is somehow different than a fellow league member doing the very same thing.

I did say this very thing from the start, that it’s the same effect regardless.

 

Bentley’s story also said that this was what he was doing, hence why I raised it.

 

Quote

No way this can be measured accurately unless you're going to be the only one taunting on a raid under very controlled circumstances.

Totally ignores kills made by your teammates from mobs pulled in by others on the raid.  These "losses" are easily made up and then some.

You can lose agro to another league player just as easily as someone soloing.

the problem with hypotheticals like this is that they are hypothetical. 

You're right, but I was only providing numbers because I was asked to. They're entirely based on my experience and I'm not nearly invested enough in specific reward values to conduct a quantitative investigation.

 

Those numbers are an approximation of my best and my worst personal contribution to the raid via herding - it ignores other incomes intentionally.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[jubakumbi]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

And the other seven people on the team who do mind? 

 

If you are not making others dance to your tune, seems clear to me you should not be taking actions which make it increase the likelihood of wiping.

So you have some 'house rules' list someplace of things no one is allowed to do in case it might cause team wipes?

Really?

Now we have to follow some imaginary, pie in the sky vision of perfect team play that follows your rules?

 

What seems clear to me is that there are a whole lot of people that forgot, or never learned, how to relax and have fun.

 

As I have stated over and over, If the team does not fit, I simply leave.

No drama, no fuss.

The moment anyone brings in the unneeded 'house rules' drama, I simply leave the team.

Life is too short, my real playtime is too short, to allow other people to harsh my buzz.

They have the same coded tools as everyone else, it's all about how they choose to treat each other that matters to me.

If that treatment involves whining about things like GF and KB, those people, IMO, are simply too uptight for me to want to hang out with them.

 

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Can I see a video of this? I think it would bring tears of laughter to my eyes if I seen you in a video killing pixels and laughing.

Doubtful.

The wife and I decided no cameras in the house, she feels like she is being watched and I am naked far too often.

 

It is always amusing to me though that some people simply cannot grasp the fact someone like me exists...a person that simply likes to relax and have fun over taking the pixels seriously.

Generally the following implication is that I am lying, because in thier eyes, no one can remain that up-beat or something.

Of course things happen in the game that make me ARG!, but in the big picture, I just laugh and cheer on the last teammate standing as we all wipe.

 

Not everyone that plays MMOs is a person that thinks it's all a race or a job.

[Corruption]

Group fly is terrible and expecting people to have it turned off on every character is unrealistic. 

 

Personally, I didn't even know the option existed and I suspect the majority of players don't either. I've never ran into an issue with someone annoying a team with group fly, so it would never occur to me to even turn it off. However, if I did run into this, it would certainly annoy me. 

 

It also can't be compared to the TP prompt, that can be changed in options from anywhere. 

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

So you have some 'house rules' list someplace of things no one is allowed to do in case it might cause team wipes?

Really?

 

No. Lists and "house rules" are absurdities you've introduced. Most everyone else is able to go by common sense sociability rules regarding behavior in groups that were inculcated in childhood.

[jubakumbi]

20 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

No. Lists and "house rules" are absurdities you've introduced. Most everyone else is able to go by common sense sociability rules regarding behavior in groups that were inculcated in childhood.

Exactly?

Why would you think from any of my posts I don't follow 'general common sense sociability rules' when on a team?

I will not, however, change the way I choose to play the game just because there are people in the world that don't like it.

Also, you make a HUGE assuption on 'everyone'.

The world is a really big place.

We did not all grow up in the same environements.

One persons 'common sense sociability' is another persons anxiety and another persons personal insult.

We do not all have the same outlooks and to imply that we do shows a very tiny world view, IMO.

 

It is so funny to me to get this much static over expressing the opinion I can play the game the way I prefer.

Someone just has to be the villian though, right?

[ShardWarrior]

42 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

The wife and I decided no cameras in the house, she feels like she is being watched and I am naked far too often.

TMI lol 😁

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

 

Also, you make a HUGE assuption on 'everyone'.

 

Fortunately I wrote, "most everyone" (intentionally so as to avoid pedantry even though sensible reading should have covered most everyone had I only written, "everyone").

[jubakumbi]

22 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Fortunately I wrote, "most everyone" (intentionally so as to avoid pedantry even though sensible reading should have covered most everyone had I only written, "everyone").

Applies to 'most everyone' as well - it is still a very narrow outlook to assume 'most everyone' thinks and acts the way you do, IMO.

The pedantry kicks in when you expect other players to not kill pixels in a way other than the prescribed manner, that 'most everyone' follows, IMO...

 

It appears you want to make me look 'unsensible' or otherwise 'absurd' in some way, simpy because of a percieved PoV that I am somehow a terrible teammate or something.

Anything else I am doing wrong in my life you would like to correct me over?

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Anything else I am doing wrong in my life you would like to correct me over?

Being naked too often.

[jubakumbi]

9 minutes ago, Lines said:

Being naked too often.

Not so much when I play CoH though, I hate that skin-sticking-to-furniture feeling...

[Lines]

Just now, jubakumbi said:

Not so much when I play CoH though, I hate that skin-sticking-to-furniture feeling...

I hear ya.

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Applies to 'most everyone' as well - it is still a very narrow outlook to assume 'most everyone' thinks and acts the way you do, IMO.

 

By definition, applying to most everyone is not a narrow way of looking at things...it covers most everyone. Personally, I would not be so hasty in replying so as to miss things like that, but you do what makes you happy as it is not meaningfully annoying to me.

 

 

[jubakumbi]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

By definition, applying to most everyone is not a narrow way of looking at things...it covers most everyone. Personally, I would not be so hasty in replying so as to miss things like that, but you do what makes you happy as it is not meaningfully annoying to me.

And I still think 'most everyone', in this context, is, in fact, too broad a brush, regardless of the haste with which I reply, which is I guess the answer to my question:

33 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Anything else I am doing wrong in my life you would like to correct me over?

 

I always try to do what makes me happy, but thanks for the encouragement anyway, always good to get positive feedback!