Anti-Defender concept help

[Trademarked Name]

I have been rolling a toon (now on my third iteration). Unlike honest healers that primarily "heal" people, this toon would make people sick. The hero is a pre-teen with the mutant ability that makes enemies ill/weak when they are near by  (sort of like Plague/Pestillence from the Marvel's X-men though she had to come into contact to infect). Originally, I was trying a Poison corruptor, but that was a very weak power set (secondary affects for Poison are weak) and didn't feel thematic to what I had in mind. Then I went to Darkness Sentinel (enemy -to hit), which felt a bit stronger offensively but even less thematic for what I was going for. 

There is an AoE HOLD power that makes near by enemies cough and vomit. I think it's the radiation emission power of Choking Cloud. This is exactly the thematic power I'm looking for, and let me amend that with an I THINK. Choking Cloud is available on the Defender at level 18 (pretty early for an AoE hold power <-which is nice!). Also Radiation Emission can be had by Controllers/Doms. But that power comes much later to them (10 levels later to be exact), But do the holds last longer/stronger on Corruptors/doms than on Defenders? Can a defender lock down someone or is it just a party trick for them (enemies will break the hold after a couple of seconds?) Or is the strength of holds negligible between ATs when IO'd?

Are there any other/better power sets that might have that "make other feel sick" type of power that I might be missing? I want powers that will make targeted enemies or mobs visibly wretch in the animation. There doesn't appear to be many powers that do that (maybe 1 per AT).

If Radiation Emission is good, what secondary power would you recommend? For a "defender" there doesn't appear to be any that are sickness affecting so I was thinking maybe giving her a gun and calling it a day. But it's a bit of laziness combined with "I don't like any of these secondary power sets" but maybe I'm missing something that would tie in thematically. This doesn't need to be a strong soloing character. I don't mind teaming up, but don't want a toon that is so weak it "must" be carried (like the time I did that Force Field/Illusion. Yikes!)

Thank you in advance, for any ideas or advice you might have.

 

 

[Seigmoraig]

1 hour ago, Trademarked Name said:

do the holds last longer/stronger on Corruptors/doms than on Defenders? Can a defender lock down someone or is it just a party trick for them (enemies will break the hold after a couple of seconds?) Or is the strength of holds negligible between ATs when IO'd?

 

 

Have a look at this page here: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Controller
 

On the right side of the page you can see a Modifiers (At level 50) section where you can see the various modifiers for the Controller class. You can compare those to the ones on the Defender page.

 

Also Dominators can't have the Radiation Emission set. It is only available to Defenders, Corruptors, Controllers and Masterminds

Edited November 7, 2019 by Seigmoraig

[Bopper]

I think Radiation Emission is a good way to go. Choking Cloud gives you what you're looking for and there are some other good powers that are thematic (lingering radiation) and powers that synergize with choking cloud for full lockdown (EM Pulse). For extra effectiveness, you can use the Lockdown Proc in hopes of holding a boss with CC alone. It will only proc 15% of the time every 5 seconds, but when it does, it's nice. You can throw other procs in there if you want to slow the enemy or do damage, but I would probably slot hold duration just to ensure minions and lieutenants stay stuck.

 

Sticking with theme, I think you have to go with Controller so you can get Bile Spray from the Leviathan Mastery. You literally throw up on your enemy.

 

As for selecting a primary, hard to say. It depends on how you want to play and what works best for your theme.

[Mercurias]

I think you could pretty easily go Radiation/Dark as a defender and be solid. 
 

If you want to go nuts with it, a Fire/Rad Controller also has a ST hold that makes people cough. You could run Choking Cloud with Hot Feat.

 

You could ALSO go for a Dark/Rad controller, color the dark powers to be sickly-looking, and treat the Mezzes as symptoms of a disease.

[Trademarked Name]

I rolled a Rad/Sonic Defender last night and got her up to level 18 and I was a bit disappointed, as the Choking Cloud doesn't make enemies wretch. They just cough like they do with Earth Control's Volcanic Gases. It's still pretty powerful effect. I was street sweeping +0-+2 in skyway without any issues or taking faction type or mob size into consideration. The CC gives a nice big AoE, and combining it with Radiation Infection helped mitigate hits on me, then I could just whittle enemies down slowly with sonic attacks. I like the fact it's just PBAoE with a toggle. No need to pick a target. Anyone close to me get's a dose of sickness.

Radiation infection seems pretty effective as well, until the enemy you target takes off running leaving you open to the rest of the mob. But once I hit 18, CC tends to lock them down with the mob most of the time.

 

I must have been thinking of the Poison Trap that makes enemies vomit. But that power won't suffice. Even though a defender can get a Poison Trap as early as level 12, it's a clunky "place device mechanic" power that must be tripped and it has a long recharge time. Not worth it for the concept I was going for.   

 

Radiation is nice as you can really debuff the crud out of small mobs. Between Infection and Lingering you do: -DEF, -RES, -ToHit, -Dam; By the time you hit level 20, you start to face mobs with troublesome resistances, and -DEF is always good for accuracy checks. The -tohit and -Dam was the only thing keeping me alive. The Enervating Field with the -Regen,-Rech, and -SPD seems a bit situational.

[Ankhammon]

Based on the backstory you are trying to put forth and the visuals you can obtain, I would say that Poison is more what you are looking for.

Don't let anyone tell you that Poison trap is no good. It's placement is only 1.118 seconds for a level 26 power that by end game you could have running every 25ish seconds and will last 20ish seconds while doing over 400 pts of damage. And oh, yeah it's autohit.

If the story thing is at issue, this could be a "pure" essence of yourself you need to handle differently... besides by the time you get Venomous Gas you will hardly ever see the trap being set. Just run into mob and release. It's the set defining power, IMO. Just remember to proc extensively.

 

Graphically, poison allows you to spit on people and throw gunk.

It has like 4 really good debuffs, 2 holds and other stuff I never took. 🙂

 

All that being said, it's a bit tough to level if you solo a lot so I would suggest maybe going controller and giving your char a touch of Poison Ivy. Make a Plant/Poison and you will have an easy time of leveling. Confuse/debuff/debuff some more/Carrion Creepers/Poison Trap. Move on to next group.

 

You could even call yourself Poison Hy-Vee, Produce Manager. 🙂

 

[StratoNexus]

Rad/Sonic is not a terrible choice, the single target disorient gives a nice sickened look, although Rad/Dark might be better, something about the dark puffs colored correctly works for poison/sickness in my mind.

 

I do think a Fire/Rad controller would be really good though. Char makes them choke. Flashfires colored right could work for spreading lots of infection and gives them the disorient animation, which, as mentioned above, works for sickened, in my opinion. Even Hot Feet colored right might be OK as a plague aura that spreads onto your victims. Ring of Fire and Fire Cages aren't great thematically, but they are skippable, although Ring of Fire does deal good damage, so it is hard to skip and still solo easily, unless you go for Fighting, which works really well on contained enemies.

 

Plant/Rad would also be a good choice, if you can handle delivering some of the infection through nature.

[Erydanus]

I would personally have suggested rad/rad and then tuned the colors to make them more 'sickly', just for theme reasons.

 

One thing about the anchors in radiation infection is that they do trigger a run away and aggro response in the AI, which is one reason it's a really nice power as a secondary on a controller: for most controllers, it's easy to immobilize the anchor target so they can't run off with it. For a defender, you just need to learn to micromange; it may be helpful to take the new willpower pool which has a jumping power than can be used to cause knockdown. I haven't tried this myself but imagine an anchor starts to run off and you do this knockdown jump move. Alternately have you taken Shockwave? Put a knockback to knockdown IO in there and use that to interrupt your foes running away. Your highest level secondary powers will also allow you to sleep and disorient so this may sort itself out.

[Trademarked Name]

2 hours ago, Erydanus said:

I would personally have suggested rad/rad and then tuned the colors to make them more 'sickly', just for theme reasons.

 

One thing about the anchors in radiation infection is that they do trigger a run away and aggro response in the AI, which is one reason it's a really nice power as a secondary on a controller: for most controllers, it's easy to immobilize the anchor target so they can't run off with it. For a defender, you just need to learn to micromange; it may be helpful to take the new willpower pool which has a jumping power than can be used to cause knockdown. I haven't tried this myself but imagine an anchor starts to run off and you do this knockdown jump move. Alternately have you taken Shockwave? Put a knockback to knockdown IO in there and use that to interrupt your foes running away. Your highest level secondary powers will also allow you to sleep and disorient so this may sort itself out.

Since this is my 3rd iteration, I'm reticent to re-roll the toon again. Though I did go on the test server the other day and tried Poison controller and did the auto level to 50 to see how I'd liked it, and I didn't like the trap setting mechanic. I've managed to get the Rad/Sonic up to lev 26. When she hits 27, she'll be able to slot Lockdown: Chance for hold 🙂

 

Okay. The shockwave + change KB to KD proc is a great idea. The anchor target for Radiation Infection hasn't been rabbiting much, as Choking Cloud has been doing a fantastic job of locking foes down. But occasionally a Tsoo will run off with it. Though rare, it makes for a tense few moments as I contemplate de-toggling and targeting another. That is an awesome tip! The thought of KBing things (knocking them out of my choking cloud) seemed like a non-starter.

 

I really like the benefit/cost on some of the powers of this game. Choking Cloud locks down foes VERY well as a defender and it's a considerably large AoE that I don't have to target and I can just keep toggled on. The negatives are that you do have to get within close (not quite melee) range, it also does zero damage (unless you proc it) and if you get mezz'd it shuts off and you're basically SOL. The thematic aspect is a nice change from maxing DPS; sort of like what I had intended with an Elec/Elec sentinal that I was hoping would be like a Malta Sapper to drain enemy END leaving them helpless, but END drain effects powers don't really work that well. By the time you got someone's end down near zero, they were already out of Health as well. And until they hit zero END, it's a pretty pointless secondary effect for powers. I never did get him to be like a malta sapper.

 

Back to the Rad/Sonic defender: Targets that like to attack out of range are a minor annoyance. I either need to run up to them and get them in the field of the Cloud, or target them with sonic attacks first (if I have a mob I'm already choking). And those that like to just run around like a child in a toy store. But the most annoying are those that have a mez affect. Even a split second mez from a Freakshow or Tsoo all of your toggles can shut-off. 

 

I'm looking at franken-slotting the Radiation Infection to get the -ToHit up there. As it is now, choking keeps everyone pretty static. When they break free, they may get a swing or two in before choking takes hold again and they're locked down for another full 60 seconds. With a 10-20% def (lucks) and -30% to Hit, they don't hit much. But all it takes is for a Red Ink Man Tsoo to hit me once to turn me into a powerless (yet High HP) citizen of paragon surrounded by a mob of Tsoo. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Trademarked Name

[StratoNexus]

Another option when facing enemies who like to stay at range is to toggle a guy in the back and the duck around a corner or behind something and let them run to you. Toggle pulling is a great technique for bunching the enemies and for getting the near spawn only when two spawns are close (or toggling a guy in the second spawn and gathering both spawns, if you are crazy like my SG).

[oldskool]

Props for combining a pre-teen concept with a power set that just yells at everyone. 

 

If door slamming was a power, then you should take that too.  The behavior alone makes me sick IRL so mutant powers aren't even required! 😛

[Trademarked Name]

2 hours ago, oldskool said:

Props for combining a pre-teen concept with a power set that just yells at everyone. 

 

If door slamming was a power, then you should take that too.  The behavior alone makes me sick IRL so mutant powers aren't even required! 😛

I should bind the Shriek, Shout and Shockwave to also do

/local "Ok Boomer!"

/Local "Man made climate change is real! Your denial is killing this planet!" 

/Local "Why the heck can't I get on the wifi'?!!!!" ad infinitum

[oldskool]

15 minutes ago, Trademarked Name said:

/Local "Man made climate change is real! Your denial is killing this planet!"

This works really well for Plant/Storm, Plant/Nature Controllers or Plant/* Dominators, or Beast Mastery/Nature or Beast Mastery/Storm Masterminds. 

[Erydanus]

I'd like to point out that the bigger breakfree inspirations last a fair while. If I were going to fight Tsoo with this build, I'd just stock up on them and take them as prevention.

 

There's also a power in Sorcery that grants you direct protection against most mezzes as well as a damage resistance buff. It has a very long recharge so you can't keep it up permanently but it could be a tide turner to have should you wade in to a particularly large group of mezzers. It may not be worth the investment in your build though.

 

Glad the knockdown trick is helping!

[Riverdusk]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:23 AM, Trademarked Name said:

 I've managed to get the Rad/Sonic up to lev 26. When she hits 27, she'll be able to slot Lockdown: Chance for hold 🙂

 

 

Just a warning if you haven't tried it by now, that proc basically gives a graphical effect equal to tesla cage (they are held in a ball of lightning).  Hopefully that doesn't mess with your theme.

[Trademarked Name]

Yeah. The hold proc is pretty ugly. I use it on my Earth/Earth Dominator and it doesn't bother me too much with him as it seems to trigger well. On this toon I find it annoying and I get the "feeling" that it isn't really improving the quantity of holds. The CC already holds very well with just set IOs, and I like having a damage proc in it at the moment. CC seems a bit OP at times.