pvp only accolades

[macskull]

15 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

Yeah, I wish they would remove ths Shivans, the Nukes, etc from the game, or else make them available through PvE. It's one of the issues I've always had with the game, ever since the old days.

 

In fact, I kind of wish they would just split PvP and PvE into entirely separate games, like you used to see with single player and deathmatch on some old FPS games. Completely separate games.

The good thing is all of those things are completely optional for PvE. I can count on one hand the number of times I've used Shivans or Warburg nukes since the game came back. The good thing for you is that most of the PvP zones across the Homecoming servers are dead 99% of the time so if you really wanted to wander into a PvP zone to get any of those things you wouldn't see anyone else.

 

1 minute ago, Razor Cure said:

To be honest these accolades are all Villain side..and just goes on that list of 'stupidly baised towards blueside' crap. I mean crap BECAUSE it is true. I totally agree those accolades should have been changed forever ago, dead pvp zones or no.

Auto granting them in pvp? That seems..unfair. So you pvp, but dont WANT to pve, but hey, you can just go ahead and have these super handy accolade powers..just cause.

Does that also then mean, if you really really wanna pvp, you HAVE to earn those 50 levels in a pvp zone? Stands to reason. Although, since the lowest pvp zone is 15? 20?, good luck with that!

Or what about alll those enhancements you basically need to have a competative build? That's right, you cant earn them in pve anymore, since you onlw want to pvp. Have farm farming then in pvp zones, with pvp 'rules' nerfing half your powers.

Ok, I admit, I am being silly, but that point stands..getting auto accolades just because you want to pvp is wrong. It would make sense, at least to me, to simply have them obtainable via pvp zones, so those who love it can spend more time doing what they enjoy.

Incoming list:

 

1) Most of the redside accolades are faster/easier to get than their blueside counterparts, especially with the I25+ changes.

 

2) How does auto-granting accolade powers in PvP affect anyone other than the people that PvP? I PvP because it's the only interesting content in this game - PvE is mind-numbingly easy and repetitive and the only reasons I do it are to socialize with friends and grind out the gear I need to be competitive in PvP. The less mandatory PvE I have to do to get a character ready for PvP, the better.

 

3) Again, I think you're missing the point here - the accolade powers in question would only function in a PvP environment and would provide no benefit in PvE. I honestly do not understand why people would be opposed to this because it has literally no effect on PvE. I'm specifically referring to the stat-boosting accolades (the four +hp/+end ones) here, but they are practically required to be competitive in PvP.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, kelly Rocket said:

More of a parity thing. If they get to get their accolades in PvP, we shouldn't have to go into PvP zones to get Shivans, Nukes, etc, etc.

Pure nonsense. If we're shooting for parity, then PvP is gonna get a whole lot more love than PvE. That's not really what you want, you just don't like PvP and are against it. Just like almost every other player's that shoots down any and all suggestions to improve it. 

[Razor Cure]

Mac:

1. I wasn't saying the redside ones were harder, I totally agree most are easier to get! I was just saying that ONLY redside ones need pvp badges. That 5 hours in Sirens Call one used to be a BIG pain to get on Freedom, cause there was nearly always some tping fool who would true pull you out, even if camped in the base.

 

2. Also, not saying that auto pvp accolades effect anyone who doesnt pvp. But getting those great powers for NOTHING? For nothing. Come on. There has also been a free threads on auto granting pve accos to new toons, after One toon on said account has them unlocked.

Which yeah..would be nice. But also getting a lot for nothing. Getting those accos can be a grind, but to me, only a few parts of them (fake nems, synapse) ARE actually a grind. The rest I can do, mostly while  doing 'normal' stuff that I have fun with. I am genuinely sorry to hear that the rest of pve is a grind to you, considering how shafted pvp gets but sadly that is the way of things.

 

 

[macskull]

38 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Mac:

1. I wasn't saying the redside ones were harder, I totally agree most are easier to get! I was just saying that ONLY redside ones need pvp badges. That 5 hours in Sirens Call one used to be a BIG pain to get on Freedom, cause there was nearly always some tping fool who would true pull you out, even if camped in the base.

 

2. Also, not saying that auto pvp accolades effect anyone who doesnt pvp. But getting those great powers for NOTHING? For nothing. Come on. There has also been a free threads on auto granting pve accos to new toons, after One toon on said account has them unlocked.

Which yeah..would be nice. But also getting a lot for nothing. Getting those accos can be a grind, but to me, only a few parts of them (fake nems, synapse) ARE actually a grind. The rest I can do, mostly while  doing 'normal' stuff that I have fun with. I am genuinely sorry to hear that the rest of pve is a grind to you, considering how shafted pvp gets but sadly that is the way of things.

 

 

Most of the PvP-related badges got removed from redside accolades around I16 I think? All that's left now are exploration badges and I think maybe a defeat badge or two, and honestly most PvP zones across these servers are so empty that they're functionally PvE zones. In regards to "free PvP accolades" versus "free PvE accolades" there's a simple but significant difference there - you don't really need those stat-boosting accolades to PvE. In PvP those extra 20% hit points are a huge deal to the point they're practically mandatory if you plan on being competitive. One of your primary build goals on almost every PvP character is to hit the HP cap. This proposed change unbalances nothing and actually lowers the barrier for entry for PvP, which is a good thing for everyone concerned.

 

As far as the "getting a lot for nothing," the post-I24 version of this game already does that (auction house changes, incarnate system changes, P2W vendor, etc.). The PvP community is taking advantage of having the ears of a new "development" team that may be more willing to help us out with quality of life requests like this one.

Edited August 31, 2019 by macskull

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

The attempts weren't successful.

But the Live PVP community, at least early after CoV's launch (issue 6), was constantly, regularly, like clockwork making suggestions that would have forced PvE players into the PvP zones.  To the point where anything even edging slightly close to that sort of thing, starts waving great big red flags all over the place, for me.

Ive seen this in several MMOs, also the attitude described is familiar to me.

 

Of course the counter is always, "give an example."

 

When you give one, that will be countered with some rationalizations of why that example doesn't apply.  

 

Etc etc.  

 

 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

Pure nonsense. If we're shooting for parity, then PvP is gonna get a whole lot more love than PvE. That's not really what you want, you just don't like PvP and are against it. Just like almost every other player's that shoots down any and all suggestions to improve it. 

Maybe there should be a pvp server?

[macskull]

23 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Maybe there should be a pvp server?

For the most part, PvP and PvE are completely separate in this game. There's no point in having a PvP server.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

For the most part, PvP and PvE are completely separate in this game. There's no point in having a PvP server.

Except you could have all sorts of differences in the dedicated PVP server possibly 

 

Open world PVP in Atlas park, for example

 

 

[kelly Rocket]

4 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Pure nonsense. If we're shooting for parity, then PvP is gonna get a whole lot more love than PvE. That's not really what you want, you just don't like PvP and are against it. Just like almost every other player's that shoots down any and all suggestions to improve it. 

I'm really not... I just don't want to have to deal with it at all. I have no problem with it existing, and fully support it being brought up to parity. I'm OK with PvPers never having to set foot in PvE, as long as I also never have to set foot in PvP... Meaning there are NO rewards from PvP zones that are useful in PvE zones, or that any rewards you could get there which can be used in PvE can *also* be obtained without ever stepping into a PvP zone.

 

Give me that and I'm totally happy for PvPers to get whatever they want that doesn't effect me in any way shape or form.

[Steampunkette]

Anything that lowers the barrier for PvP while not -requiring- PvP play is great for me.

 

I'd love to see changes like this implemented, where quaternary improvements to character are adjusted for. We already adjust for primary and secondary characteristics, after all.

 

For simplest implementation: Disable all Accolade Powers while within PvP Zones, Apply a Zone-Wide Buff equivalent to the Accolade Powers.

 

That way it doesn't have to question whether or not someone HAS the Accolade power and then disable the ones they have, specifically. Just BOOP! All gone. And replaced with something similar. If you don't have 'em, you still get the zone-wide buff. Problem Solved.

[Kimuji]

 

13 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

What worries me is:

First, it's "add these to PvP so we don't have to PvE".

Then, it's "Take the PvE way to get these out of the game, so everyone has to PvP to get them because that means more people doing PvP."

 

I've seen that attempt before in other games.  Hell, I've seen similar done in this game, on Live, back around i8 or i10.  The goal isn't really to get more people to enjoy PvP.  The goal is to get more people to be victims in PvP.

13 hours ago, macskull said:

I suppose OP should have been more specific with what he was asking for - not another way to unlock the accolades via PvP content, but simply having the accolade powers granted on a temporary basis as long as you are in a PvP zone or the arena. As soon as you leave one of those areas the power(s) would be disabled again. The goal here isn't "bring more people into PvP by making them go into PvP zones to get PvE rewards" but rather "remove some of the grind from making a competitive PvP character by auto-granting accolade powers in a PvP environment."

See my reply to the first quote in this post, where I explain what exactly is being asked for. Now that you mention it though I am curious what exactly you're referring to happening in that timeframe, as I'm not aware of any times where a PvE method of obtaining something has been removed and/or replaced entirely by a PvP method. The goal here is to lower the barrier to having a competitive PvP build.

I think he didn't mean that you, personally, will ask later for these accolades to be obtainable only through pvp or that you had a similar long term plan in mind but that others might bandwagon later to use it to that end.

I don't really understand how it will lmake pvp more appealing though,  if the pvp players don't like doing the pve content to get them then it means that few people have them, so it makes accolades less essential. And if most pvp players have the accolades then it means that they're already doing the pve content anyway and don't need to get them through pvp.

Or make that change only for the pvp server if that's possible? I don't know...

Edited August 31, 2019 by Kimuji

[PaxArcana]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Except you could have all sorts of differences in the dedicated PVP server possibly 

 

Open world PVP in Atlas park, for example

That would require forking the codebase, meaning there would be two entirely separate versions of the game to patch and maintain.

 

Which makes it not worth the time and energy it would take to do it.

1 hour ago, Kimuji said:

I think he didn't mean that you, personally, will ask later for these accolades to be obtainable only through pvp or that you had a similar long term plan in mind but that others might bandwagon later to use it to that end.

Yup.

 

While there are good and decent PvPers out there .... they seem, in my experience, to be in the minority in that community.  The community as a whole is a cesspit, and as a whole always seems - in many games, not just CoX - to want to drag everyone else into PvP with them, to give themselves more people to "pwn".  Not more actual competition, mind.  Just victims.

 

Example, somewhat: Auto Assault.  There I am, a fresh 60 on a team, in Ground Zero (that game's entire Endgame was basically "constant PvP in the final zone").  I am literally the least-capable member of that team.  So ... of course ... who does every non-allied PvPer make a beeline for, every time I respawn?  YUP: me.  Those guys didn't want a challenge, they didn't want combat with a peer.

 

They just wanted easy victories.  The easier, the better.

(And I can't believe I stuck it out in that zone for nearly as long as I did ...)

[PaxArcana]

4 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

For simplest implementation: Disable all Accolade Powers while within PvP Zones, Apply a Zone-Wide Buff equivalent to the Accolade Powers.

.... now, THIS is a good idea.  🙂  It will get my unreserved +1 ...!

[justicebeliever]

10 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Pure nonsense. If we're shooting for parity, then PvP is gonna get a whole lot more love than PvE. That's not really what you want, you just don't like PvP and are against it. Just like almost every other player's that shoots down any and all suggestions to improve it. 

Spot on!  Totally transparency, I have not ever, nor plan to ever engage in any pvp.  That said, we can't use a slippery slope argument against the pvp'ers.  It can't be no because “if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile”.  Because that's not how game development works...each change is evaluated on it's own merits.

 

+1 to the OP’s suggestion...

[Moonshades]

10 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

More of a parity thing. If they get to get their accolades in PvP, we shouldn't have to go into PvP zones to get Shivans, Nukes, etc, etc.

You DON'T have to go into a pvp zone to get those things. Because they aren't required for any pve content. There's nothing in the game that you need a Shivan or Warburg nuke for.

[Haijinx]

6 hours ago, Moonshades said:

You DON'T have to go into a pvp zone to get those things. Because they aren't required for any pve content. There's nothing in the game that you need a Shivan or Warburg nuke for.

This is true.  I never remember to even use my Lore pet.  

 

So I could see more powers like this being allowed earned in PVP 

 

Also maybe some Accolades that add PVP only bonuses, earned by PVP, sounds fair

[macskull]

10 hours ago, Kimuji said:

I don't really understand how it will lmake pvp more appealing though,  if the pvp players don't like doing the pve content to get them then it means that few people have them, so it makes accolades less essential. And if most pvp players have the accolades then it means that they're already doing the pve content anyway and don't need to get them through pvp.

Just because we don't like having to grind through unlocking the accolades doesn't mean we don't do it. It's pretty much impossible to HP cap most characters without the accolades unless you make significant build sacrifices to do it, and sometimes not even then. If you don't have as much HP as you should you're putting a target on your back. The point here isn't necessarily to make PvP more appealing, though lowering the barrier to entry might help with that as a side effect - the point is that yes, we are already doing the PvE content to get the accolades, but that's even more time spent doing content we don't really want to do in order to get to the content we do want to participate in.

[kelly Rocket]

11 hours ago, Moonshades said:

You DON'T have to go into a pvp zone to get those things. Because they aren't required for any pve content. There's nothing in the game that you need a Shivan or Warburg nuke for.

They're as required for PvE as Accolades are for PvP IMO.

 

And this argument is just another example of PvP boosters wanting to have rewards in PvP which give advantages in PvE, but not wanting any PvE rewards that give advantages in PvP. I can't tolerate that disparity. Either we have both or neither.

[Moonshades]

5 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

They're as required for PvE as Accolades are for PvP IMO.

 

And this argument is just another example of PvP boosters wanting to have rewards in PvP which give advantages in PvE, but not wanting any PvE rewards that give advantages in PvP. I can't tolerate that disparity. Either we have both or neither.

There's two pages talking about what these pvp accolades are, but what you just described isn't that. They are essentially buffs that mimic health and endurance gains given by pve accolades, but they are granted to everyone who enters pvp and only lasts as long as they remain in that state.

 

There's no disparity.

[kelly Rocket]

2 minutes ago, Moonshades said:

There's two pages talking about what these pvp accolades are, but what you just described isn't that. They are essentially buffs that mimic health and endurance gains given by pve accolades, but they are granted to everyone who enters pvp and only lasts as long as they remain in that state.

 

There's no disparity.

Yes there is. Because I still have to go into PvP zones to get my Shivans, and they don't have to go into PvE to get their accolades. If I have to suffer, they should have to suffer too.

[macskull]

15 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

If I have to suffer, they should have to suffer too.

And this, folks, should tell you all you need to know.

[justicebeliever]

29 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

If I have to suffer, they should have to suffer too.

But they already do suffer:

1.) On the forums where they are treated like second class citizens 

2.) In the game that pays little attention to any their requests or QoL improvements

 

if you want true parity - then 50% dev time for PvP and 50% for PvE...

[Moonshades]

38 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

Yes there is. Because I still have to go into PvP zones to get my Shivans, and they don't have to go into PvE to get their accolades. If I have to suffer, they should have to suffer too.

I feel like I've said this ad nauseum in a few different threads over the last week (including this one) but once again, you don't need to have Shivans or Warburg nukes or any other pvp baubles to complete any content in pve. Therefore you don't have to go to get them. 

 

The suggested PvP buffs have nothing to do with pve content at all and in fact would benefit you as well whenever you go Bloody Bay to get your Shivans.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Moonshades

[Warlawk]

25 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

But they already do suffer:

1.) On the forums where they are treated like second class citizens 

2.) In the game that pays little attention to any their requests or QoL improvements

 

if you want true parity - then 50% dev time for PvP and 50% for PvE...

I for one, do not want parity. I've been an avid pvp player for as long as I've been gaming online. Starcraft, Diablo 2 pvp, Dark Ages of Camelot, Shadowbane, WoW, Mobas and too many more to name. I enjoy pvp and always have.

 

If one of the HC devs read so much as the OP of this thread, that's more dev investment into CoH pvp than I would like to see. It's a lost cause and it's a mess. With the recent thread on numbers of ATs and such, I would love to see a breakdown of the amount of time spent on PvE vs PvP. Most online game organizers have realized that investing in content that is only consumed by a fraction of a percent of your game population is not a winning strategy.

 

I feel for the PvP players, they can't win here because even if they do get some balancing people will be resentful because of the resources allocated, as well as any changes (even if they aren't nerfs) that spill over into pve. The ideal solution (IMO of course) would be for the dedicated PvP community to use the source code that is out there and create their own server where they can actually unfuck pvp and perhaps make it playable and interesting. This could also serve to consolidate the pvp population. I've not seen any discussion of anyone doing so however.

 

EDIT: I just wanted to say that I'm sure this post will anger some people but I prefer to be a realist. Devoting resources to something utilized by what I suspect is 1% of the population (possibly less) is not a good plan.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Warlawk

[Moonshades]

6 minutes ago, Warlawk said:

I for one, do not want parity. I've been an avid pvp player for as long as I've been gaming online. Starcraft, Diablo 2 pvp, Dark Ages of Camelot, Shadowbane, WoW, Mobas and too many more to name. I enjoy pvp and always have.

 

If one of the HC devs read so much as the OP of this thread, that's more dev investment into CoH pvp than I would like to see. It's a lost cause and it's a mess. With the recent thread on numbers of ATs and such, I would love to see a breakdown of the amount of time spent on PvE vs PvP. Most online game organizers have realized that investing in content that is only consumed by a fraction of a percent of your game population is not a winning strategy.

 

I feel for the PvP players, they can't win here because even if they do get some balancing people will be resentful because of the resources allocated, as well as any changes (even if they aren't nerfs) that spill over into pve. The ideal solution (IMO of course) would be for the dedicated PvP community to use the source code that is out there and create their own server where they can actually unfuck pvp and perhaps make it playable and interesting. This could also serve to consolidate the pvp population. I've not seen any discussion of anyone doing so however.

Great idea! We should definitely get on that.

 

One thing though, how do I code? 🤨