Anyone a Psychologist who can help explain this to me?

[Leogunner]

2 minutes ago, GM Arcanum said:

I've actually been on several task forces where people will message me afterwards to inform me they moved 'team chat' into its own tab so they don't have to read it.

Seems a bit odd, personally, when you're doing a Task Force. However, to each their own. ^_^

I do the same thing, but it's not to get rid of looking at team chat.  I just tend to swap tabs like having NPC chat in its own tab so I can see what the NPCs say or notice if an ambush is coming.  I have Rewards in a separate tab so I can see my drops.  I tend to swap back to team chat if I hear someone in team said something, indicated by the team chat audio indication.

 

But yeah, most of the time I'm not set to team chat.

[Snarky]

I am not a psychologist. But i have learned to read minds. I drive a full sized semi truck in a busy city 59 hours a week during daytime

 

what you are seeing is tunnel vision. People are not trying to be rude or stupid. They are (generally) not rude or stupid. They just are laser focused on what they are doing. Could be coffee. Could be attack chain. Could be talking to someone in room. Could be looking at map to figure where team is going. Could be looking at paragon wiki to see how much longer the task force is running. But they did not register the importance of your message

 

this is the challenge in living with people. They seem to be ‘acting crazy’ when really they are just doing what they believe is the most important thing

 

i will close with this. Get the hell away from my semi. And yeah i do need that much room to make a turn

[jubakumbi]

12 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I guess because I personally have no issues admitting that perhaps I should have listened in a similar situation. I don't claim to be innocent of such doings, not listening, I think we all do that, but when I was wrong, I was wrong. So honestly, I don't "need" them to acknowledge that I was right, but more wondering why we as humans generally do not acknowledge it. To me it seems deeply embedded within us to ignore that we were wrong, even when we know we were wrong.

 

For an example, the company I work for has made several huge mistakes by some of the changes they have made. These mistakes are costing the company more cash than I can count. However, the company refuse to admit they made a mistake, and instead blame the employees for their failure, rather than revert the bad choice. So even when money is concerned, where stakes are high and you would think people would force themselves to think more logically and admit they were wrong, they still don't do it. So to me, there must be some deep psychological reason for this.

 

IMO, you are still just looking for validation from random people on the Internet that you knew a bit of data they did not.

IMO, the more pressing question is why you think people are in any way obligated psychologically to 'show you respect for your words', honestly.

 

The real reasons could be so many things...ESL, chat boxes off, kids not allowed to chat with strangers, trivial challenges, tired of being told what to do in a game, or simply that people learn from their own mistakes much more accurately than they do from the stories of others...'don't touch the hot thing, it will burn you', 'ouch!', 'see?'

 

IMO, the psychological answer is that some people need to stop thinking that all other people should think like they do, see the world the way they do, and value the same things they do.

[Solarverse]

43 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

IMO, you are still just looking for validation from random people on the Internet that you knew a bit of data they did not.

I made myself very clear all through this thread what I came here looking for.

Quote

IMO, the more pressing question is why you think people are in any way obligated psychologically to 'show you respect for your words', honestly.

I was the team leader. It's kind of my job as team leader to seek out the best way to tackle obstacles or challenges and convey them to the team. Otherwise, what is the point of being team lead?

Quote

 

The real reasons could be so many things...ESL, chat boxes off, kids not allowed to chat with strangers, trivial challenges, tired of being told what to do in a game, or simply that people learn from their own mistakes much more accurately than they do from the stories of others...'don't touch the hot thing, it will burn you', 'ouch!', 'see?'

Yes, those could all be reasons. I guess I am the only one who occasionally ignores the team leaders instructions because I felt like my way was better? Either that or I am the only person who admits it.

Quote

 

IMO, the psychological answer is that some people need to stop thinking that all other people should think like they do, see the world the way they do, and value the same things they do.

You have a serious issue with anyone telling you what to do. I get it. I'm sure you weren't easy to raise. Me personally, I am fine with leaders of teams giving me instrucions... after all, it's his/her job as team leader. Also, if I don't follow instructions,  I have no issues admitting when I was wrong. I guess some of us have more pride than others.  However, if I don't want to take instructions from team leaders, I have the option to start my own task force team.

 

Me, I don't take instructions the way you do...after all, it's called the team leader for a reason. I know you are hard strong against anyone telling you what to do...you have come to my threads many times to tell me all about it. Although I disagree and feel you make more out of it than what it is, I do know your view point very well, since you tell me your view point on any and all threads I make similar to this one. I am well aware.

 

I enjoy our little talks. Thanks for your input. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Solarverse

[Frunobulax]

31 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I made myself very clear all through this thread what I came here looking for.

I was the team leader. It's kind of my job as team leader to seek out the best way to tackle obstacles or challenges and convey them to the team. Otherwise, what is the point of being team lead?

Yes, those could all be reasons. I guess I am the only one who occasionally ignores the team leaders instructions because I felt like my way was better? Either that or I am the only person who admits it.

You have a serious issue with anyone telling you what to do. I get it. I'm sure you weren't easy to raise. Me personally, I am fine with leaders of teams giving me instrucions... after all, it's his/her job as team leader. Also, if I don't follow instructions,  I have no issues admitting when I was wrong. I guess some of us have more pride than others.  However, if I don't want to take instructions from team leaders, I have the option to start my own task force team.

 

Me, I don't take instructions the way you do...after all, it's called the team leader for a reason. I know you are hard strong against anyone telling you what to do...you have come to my threads many times to tell me all about it. Although I disagree and feel you make more out of it than what it is, I do know your view point very well, since you tell me your view point on any and all threads I make similar to this one. I am well aware.

 

I enjoy our little talks. Thanks for your input. 

You're really passive-aggressive in this post, if this is how you were talking to people they probably all had you on ignore by the end of the tf, most folks don't want to listen to insufferable posturing and insults when they're trying to enjoy themselves with something as inconsequential as a video game.

 

 

[KelvinKole]

People take directions/orders and follow rules  for most hours of most days. I know for me the hour per day I spend inside paragon city is not a time or a place that I'm looking to continue doing either. I expect that's probably what's going on here.

 

I often don't look at team chat at all, but somewhat ironically am often the leader. I don't feel the need to give direction; I just provide the vehicle for others to play their best version of the game. Sometimes leaders just have to provide the right tools and then let the players play, knowing that nothing teaches better than a mistake. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by KelvinKole

[Solarverse]

32 minutes ago, Frunobulax said:

You're really passive-aggressive in this post, if this is how you were talking to people they probably all had you on ignore by the end of the tf, most folks don't want to listen to insufferable posturing and insults when they're trying to enjoy themselves with something as inconsequential as a video game.

 

 

I am aggressive towards Jubakumbi because we have a long history together. So much so that I never bother even reading a good majority of his/her posts. As far as the rest of this thread, I was not aggressive or passive in any of it. And no, I don't go around bossing my team around all day long. In fact, most all of the conversation during the TF was friendly jokes, or small talk, or whatever. It was not until the end ("Kill mobs around the steps first before rescuing the last Hero or we will regret spawning the ambush") ("Kill the Widow first, she will blind the team.") is hardly being a team bully. It was good sound advice. I didn't throw a fit over it, I already knew that nobody would listen because I know it is human nature. Like Jubakumbi said, most people learn from their own mistakes rather than from others. This is evident with the drug epidemic we see in the world right now. All those people, knew better, but had to find out for themselves. It is a major human flaw, but at the same time can be a strength in other situations.

 

The only aggressiveness I have expressed here was against somebody who is famous on these boards for using that same type of passive aggressiveness and has a tendency to attract a lot of aggressive attention from other posters. So yes, we have a history...which is why I typically avoid conversing with him/her. However, I have a right to address a direct quote that was made to me...and so I did. Before Jubakumbi, I have no issues with anything anyone else has said, and even welcomed their views and thoughts. So this passive aggressiveness you say I have expressed throughout the thread is an opinion you have that I simply do not share.

[Lines]

I think you're reading into it a lot more than need be. People learn things differently, sometimes the hard way. Heck, a lot of folk aren't really trying to learn when they play the game, and that's not so bad. Nobody welcomes a tutor that they didn't ask for, so don't expect thanks or validation for trying to be one.

 

Just relax and let it happen on its own.

 

But also, maybe don't air dirty laundry.

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Lines said:

I think you're reading into it a lot more than need be. People learn things differently, sometimes the hard way.

I don't feel I am reading in to it too hard, because I understand where it comes from. I myself have even admitted to doing the same exact thing. I simply want to know where the psychology of this comes from, by an expert who can say, "Yes, there have been studies on this and this is the findings."

12 minutes ago, Lines said:

Heck, a lot of folk aren't really trying to learn when they play the game, and that's not so bad. Nobody welcomes a tutor that they didn't ask for, so don't expect thanks or validation for trying to be one.

I feel differently. I guess I am an old school gamer here, because in MMORPG's, there has always been a leader giving guidance. This goes back as far as MMORPGs have existed. So for me personally, it comes with the territory. I don't take offense to it like some seem to do these days. It's a part of gaming. If I am not in the mood to hear anyone give advice or listen to them tutor (which honestly doesn't happen much in this game, hell, it's rare even when I give my advice, it has to be circumstances that happen often, IE, somebody spawning the mobs at the steps of Atlas in Posi 1 before the team is ready, or somebody clicking the computers before the mobs are cleared in Penelope Yin, almost always somebody will ask that players refrain from spawning the mobs, because experience shows us, there's always SOMEBODY who ignores you and does it anyway, lol) I will simply create my own teams or play solo. So to me, tutors in RPGMMO's are a part of the game and the learning experience. Some people tend to be a bit touchy though and have the attitude of, "Don't tell me what to do..." which I personally find to be looking in to it too much.

12 minutes ago, Lines said:

 

Just relax and let it happen on its own.

 

But also, maybe don't air dirty laundry.

Good advice...for anyone. 🙂

[ZacKing]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I was the team leader.

And that doesn't entitle you some sort of self imposed rank that requires everyone do as you want them to.  Having the star just means you call missions in and get the next one.  you're no more knowledgeable or experienced than the next person. 

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

And that doesn't entitle you some sort of self imposed rank that requires everyone do as you want them to.  Having the star just means you call missions in and get the next one.  you're no more knowledgeable or experienced than the next person. 

I guess that depends on who you ask. Not everyone plays the same way you do or shares your views on what being the team leader means. To me, being team leader does not just mean that you are the one that has to do all the work to form the team, then call all the missions in...to me, and many others, being team leader also comes with a certain responsibility to let players know when sticky situations  are about to happen and how to avoid them. You're entitled to your opinion, I simply don't share your views. If being team leader means that all I can do is be the guy doing all the work, then where is the drive to be team leader at all? Maybe this is why so many players would rather sit and beg for teams rather than form them on their own? Although I respect your views on what being team leader means, I just can't make myself agree with that.

[ZacKing]

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

...to me, and many others, being team leader also comes with a certain responsibility to let players know when sticky situations  are about to happen and how to avoid them.

you're assuming others don't know about these "sticky situations" already.  you're also assuming they want to handle things the same way you do. 

 

3 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

If being team leader means that all I can do is be the guy doing all the work, then where is the drive to be team leader at all?

Not sure how using the LFG and other channels to invite people to a team is "doing all the work".    You're literally pressing a few more buttons than everyone else. it isn't license to tell others how to play or what to do. 

[jubakumbi]

6 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I feel differently. I guess I am an old school gamer here, because in MMORPG's, there has always been a leader giving guidance. This goes back as far as MMORPGs have existed.

Been playing MMOs since they were MUDs.

Some people have always thought they needed to tell the other players what to do and how to do it, this is true.

There have always been plenty of us that don't want or need such people on our teams or in our games.

You continue to use the 'old school gamer' thing - I am an old school gamer and I do not view the world the same way, or play games the same way, so it really has no meaning here.

You are trying to twist the idea of 'old school gaming' into some top-down (decidedly American and Ageist IMO) way of playing that has always been just one way to play games out of many.

 

As we have discussed, you think there should be leaders and followers, that nothing can really be accomplished by teams, only by motivated individuals, and that 'traditional' things, meaning the ones you find important, should always be followed.

Trying to twist the idea that your way is the old-school way, the traditional way, and the right way, has been your schtick from the get-go.

I simply pose a different PoV.

 

IMO, the underlying reasoning behind this thread remains the same - the need to validate your way of thinking and playing the game, by blaming some 'psychological study' for why people don't play the way you do and interact with others in your top-down, follow orders outlook.

 

I mean, you even think the person with the star has some mysterious power and obligation...

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

you're assuming others don't know about these "sticky situations" already.  you're also assuming they want to handle things the same way you do. 

 

Not sure how using the LFG and other channels to invite people to a team is "doing all the work".    You're literally pressing a few more buttons than everyone else. it isn't license to tell others how to play or what to do. 

 It's up to them to decide if they want to do it, after all they are the ones who ended up dead not me.

[ZacKing]

12 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 It's up to them to decide if they want to do it, after all they are the ones who ended up dead not me.

So what?  Defeat has no meaning in the game outside of badges.  I agree with what @jubakumbi on this - sounds to me like you're looking for some sort of validation from people that don't want to listen to what you're saying.

[Solarverse]

13 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

So what?  Defeat has no meaning in the game outside of badges.  I agree with what @jubakumbi on this - sounds to me like you're looking for some sort of validation from people that don't want to listen to what you're saying.

I don't know about you, but when I play, I play to win. I welcome advice, especially if it is advice I knew nothing about. I don't get offended over it like some do, after all, it's up to me to decide to take it or not. And the whole validation part...yeah, okay. Not even gonna go there as that is a comment designed to put me on the defensive. I would rather keep this as logical as possible.

[ZacKing]

Faceplanting has nothing to do with losing.  You can be defeated repeatedly and still successfully complete a mission.  I don't speak for anyone other than me but getting "advice" from a "leader" on what I already know how to do doesn't offend me, it's just more pointless than anything else.  the comments about looking for validation aren't to make you defensive.  If you're taking that way, it pretty much indicates they are right on the money. 

[Solarverse]

Just now, ZacKing said:

Faceplanting has nothing to do with losing.  You can be defeated repeatedly and still successfully complete a mission.  I don't speak for anyone other than me but getting "advice" from a "leader" on what I already know how to do doesn't offend me, it's just more pointless than anything else.  the comments about looking for validation aren't to make you defensive.  If you're taking that way, it pretty much indicates they are right on the money. 

Again, on the attack I see. Right on the money, eh? You made an accusation, I called it out. You are in attack mode which makes it difficult to have a real conversation. But I will try one last time to keep this civil...

 

So let's see here, me explaining to my team that the widow will blind the team and to take her out first is something you consider unwanted advice. Even though it would have saved the team some down time had they taken it.  So in your opinion, I should have said nothing at all? What in your opinion is advice you would welcome...if any?

[Lines]

11 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

So let's see here, me explaining to my team that the widow will blind the team and to take her out first is something you consider unwanted advice. Even though it would have saved the team some down time had they taken it.  So in your opinion, I should have said nothing at all? What in your opinion is advice you would welcome...if any?

I'd say it's less about giving advice - do or don't, nobody minds - more about expecting to be thanked or recognised for it.

 

Be a good teammate because it's good to be a good teammate, but for no other reason.

[Solarverse]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

I'd say it's less about giving advice - do or don't, nobody minds - more about expecting to be thanked or recognised for it.

 

Be a good teammate because it's good to be a good teammate, but for no other reason.

Fair enough. Although I didn't expect to be thanked. I never said that or indicated that. I did wonder why we dont do this though. I have no issues thanking or recognizing in others, but I think that is a pride thing. My self pride doesn't prevent me from giving recognition. 

[Frunobulax]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 you say I have expressed throughout the thread is an opinion you have that I simply do not share.

Yeah I never said that, you're very wormy and unpleasant to talk to, I think I see exactly why you have problems and you're probably the one causing them.

 

Good luck with that, I'm with your groupmates now, bye.

[Solarverse]

50 minutes ago, Frunobulax said:

Yeah I never said that, you're very wormy and unpleasant to talk to, I think I see exactly why you have problems and you're probably the one causing them.

 

Good luck with that, I'm with your groupmates now, bye.

Yup, you're right. You said post, not thread. Sorry, didn't realize it until you brought it up. 

 

So other than that misshap, the rest should answer your original post.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Solarverse

[Richard Nelson]

Truth is that because some players give so much unnecessary unsolicited advise that when someone does say something useful you've already started to become tone def.

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, Richard Nelson said:

Truth is that because some players give so much unnecessary unsolicited advise that when someone does say something useful you've already started to become tone def.

I think this is probably the closest to the truth answer this thread will get.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Frunobulax said:

 I think I see exactly why you have problems and you're probably the one causing them.

 

Good luck with that, I'm with your groupmates now, bye.

So I wanted to apologize in a separate post first before touching the rest of what you said.

 

Just want to make clear, I did not have any problems. There was no animosity between myself and my team mates. Not sure where you got that from. I think you might have looked in to that a bit more than what it was.