NCsoft files trademark application for superhero MMORPG it abandoned

[boggo2300]

  On 1/4/2020 at 6:08 AM, jubakumbi said:

er, can you not see this is a joke?

🤗

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nope completely missed it, in my defence I AM on a hell of a lot of medications right at the moment, er excuse me I'll just skulk off in embarrassment now

[Machariel]

  On 1/3/2020 at 10:49 PM, QuiJon said:

According to what I can find, a trade mark can be considered void if it is no longer in use. As such every 5 years you have to apply for a renewal and every 10 years you have to provide proof the trademark is actually in use in commerce and not just being preserved. 

 

I don't know the dates of all the original filings, however being the original game came out in 2004, and we are heading into 2020, it could be very possible this filing was simply the 5 year mark of needing to file for the renewal of the trademark and really means nothing more. I mean yes I am sure with negoiations going on that they would not want to see the trademark drop, and being it is the odd 5 year and not the 10 year mark all they have to do is file the mark is still in use not provide proof so why not file it and keep it in play for the next 5 years. 

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This strikes me as being as good an explanation as any.

I wonder how many people at NCsoft right now were even there back in 2012.

[boggo2300]

  On 1/4/2020 at 8:18 AM, Machariel said:

This strikes me as being as good an explanation as any.

I wonder how many people at NCsoft right now were even there back in 2012.

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except at high levels I'd say not too many

[Squid Vicious]

  On 1/3/2020 at 10:49 PM, QuiJon said:

According to what I can find, a trade mark can be considered void if it is no longer in use. As such every 5 years you have to apply for a renewal and every 10 years you have to provide proof the trademark is actually in use in commerce and not just being preserved. 

 

I don't know the dates of all the original filings, however being the original game came out in 2004, and we are heading into 2020, it could be very possible this filing was simply the 5 year mark of needing to file for the renewal of the trademark and really means nothing more. I mean yes I am sure with negotiations going on that they would not want to see the trademark drop, and being it is the odd 5 year and not the 10 year mark all they have to do is file the mark is still in use not provide proof so why not file it and keep it in play for the next 5 years. 

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This is the most probable explanation (with spelling correction made).

Our Homecoming team is probably bound to secrecy about this and the current negotiations until whatever is hammered out with NCSoft is official.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Whatever NCSoft's reasoning for this, past experience tends to suggest there is nothing about this that's in the playerbase's interest.

[boggo2300]

  On 1/4/2020 at 11:21 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

Whatever NCSoft's reasoning for this, past experience tends to suggest there is nothing about this that's in the playerbase's interest.

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of course not, as far as they are concerned there is NO player base

Honestly, NC-Soft are not out to get any of us, they don't care enough, most of the staff would never even have HEARD of City of Heroes, this is just business as usual, it is so unlikely to have anything to do with us you wouldn't believe.  

[Chris24601]

There’s an old, but fitting, maxim when it comes to interpreting the actions of a large group like a business; “never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.”

 

If you really want to know what’s going on inside NCSoft (or any large corporation) just read a week or two of the Dilbert comic strip.

 

The humor/despair for the human race is more when you realize it’s NOT actually all that exaggerated (mostly the exaggeration is that all the incompetence and flawed logic of an entire corporation is displayed using just the same recurring cast of five to six characters instead of the bad management and employee decisions throughout the actual thousands of employees).

 

Odds are the original decision to shut down got started by an accountant who’s never played a video game since the 90s (and wouldn’t even know that killing support would actually take the game away from players... because Legend of Zelda still plays just fine on an NES and they haven’t made it in decades) looking at profit margins on a big list and selecting one to be cut.

 

This renewal is probably the same sort of automatic process they have for all their properties. If one comes up, file the paperwork and move on to the next file. I wouldn’t be surprised if the application was a “form letter” they print out with the IP name inserted in a blank and the person who filed it doesn’t even remember doing so.

[Scarlet Shocker]

  On 1/4/2020 at 12:03 PM, boggo2300 said:

of course not, as far as they are concerned there is NO player base

Honestly, NC-Soft are not out to get any of us, they don't care enough, most of the staff would never even have HEARD of City of Heroes, this is just business as usual, it is so unlikely to have anything to do with us you wouldn't believe.  

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I disagree.

 

The fan base made a huge noise in 2012 when closure was announced, and anyone in a serious position of power would know that. When they set up a specific email receive complaints, they knew there was a lot of upset happening. The very fact that those at the top continued to shutter a popular (in the West) and profitable game that was making them money demonstrates amply this was not a rational business decision but one borne of arrogance and a message of paternalistic contempt for its customers.

[jubakumbi]

  On 1/4/2020 at 5:26 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

I disagree.

 

The fan base made a huge noise in 2012 when closure was announced, and anyone in a serious position of power would know that. When they set up a specific email receive complaints, they knew there was a lot of upset happening. The very fact that those at the top continued to shutter a popular (in the West) and profitable game that was making them money demonstrates amply this was not a rational business decision but one borne of arrogance and a message of paternalistic contempt for its customers.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[boggo2300]

  On 1/4/2020 at 5:26 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

I disagree.

 

The fan base made a huge noise in 2012 when closure was announced, and anyone in a serious position of power would know that. When they set up a specific email receive complaints, they knew there was a lot of upset happening. The very fact that those at the top continued to shutter a popular (in the West) and profitable game that was making them money demonstrates amply this was not a rational business decision but one borne of arrogance and a message of paternalistic contempt for its customers.

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er yeah, corporations don't work like that, the uproar was half a world away, and the local office responsible for that area was closed.   Companies shut down things making money all the time, my division of a company was put up for sale, CHEAP because even though we were making millions a year (more than City was according to the financials at the time) we weren't meeting the acceptable profit that had been set by the Executive Committee for all assets (then the global market prices changed and now we are, and suddenly we are no longer for sale)

 

Making money is NEVER enough in the corporate world, you have to be making the right amount of PROFIT

[Machariel]

  On 1/4/2020 at 5:26 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

I disagree.

 

The fan base made a huge noise in 2012 when closure was announced, and anyone in a serious position of power would know that. When they set up a specific email receive complaints, they knew there was a lot of upset happening. The very fact that those at the top continued to shutter a popular (in the West) and profitable game that was making them money demonstrates amply this was not a rational business decision but one borne of arrogance and a message of paternalistic contempt for its customers.

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Boy howdy that seems like an awful lot of assumptions.

[Jimmy]

Dial it back a little guys 🙂

[boggo2300]

  On 1/4/2020 at 11:28 PM, Jimmy said:

Dial it back a little guys 🙂

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but, but, but THE INTERNET!

 

ok, back into my hole now

[Abraxus]

It's unfortunate, but true.  In the absence of fact, innuendo, assumption will attempt to fill the void.  The only real fact we have, beyond the fact that we are playing and doing quite nicely (thank you), is that we don't know exactly what's going on, and that's how it will be until someone can fill us in without legal penalty.  Before that, you can ask, request, demand, and jump up and down until you get your way.  But, nothing is going to happen, until it can.  Not a moment sooner. 

 

So, play, have fun, and keep a weather eye on the horizon.

[hejtmane]

  On 1/3/2020 at 6:50 PM, ZacKing said:

Yeah, we know.  everyone knows the story.  Bottom line is it's NCSoft's responsibility to do what they have to in order to maximize profits for their shareholders who they are accountable to. We as customers are doing the best thing we can do boycott them and never buy their products again.  But put yourself in their shoes.  were it your business and your decisions affect not only you but all your employees, would you continue to hold onto an old game just because some people really like it or would you use that money to increase your profits and grow your business?  It's just part of business.

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See a  lot  of times those statements are lies because they laid of all the staff that was running coh so they did not reassign those resources to other projects or anything a long that lines they just wanted bigger profit margin % to make their books look better it was a short paper shuffling on the books. Companies do weird things all the time and it shells games half the time,.

[Panthonca7034]

Now would be as good a time as any to say "Ok, Trademark renewal... Got it!" and drop it....  🤐

[boggo2300]

We have been, if you mean any of the HC team, even if it's a general renewal and nothing to do with their negotiations the best course of action for HC is to not comment on ANYTHING NC-Soft does until there is a clear conclusion, I bet it's burning them up and keeping quiet is really hard for them, but it's the best thing they can do for the negotiations.

[Bodai]

  On 1/3/2020 at 7:37 AM, boggo2300 said:

Ok, sorry I've given you the wrong idea, no I don't think they are reading the forums here I'm pretty sure no-one at NC is that interested tbh, my worry is more people getting themselves worked up into a mob complete with torches and pitchforks, a big push by players to "punish" NC soft definitely has potential to derail the current negotiations, so from my perspective the less people venting their hate of NC-Soft the less likely something untoward will happen, I hope that makes more sense

 

BTW we will not get our account data back, that was actually stated to be off the table, and there would be legal issues that no-one, NC-Soft or Homecoming wants to deal with.

 

Hope that clarifies, I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to make sure one we can't win doesn't start

 

tldr, I'm trying to do what I can to protect what we have

 

(and I agree with you, the servers here are much busier than they were during my play times on live)

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You won't find me getting worked up either way.  The bottom line if NC Soft betrayed people's trust and for no good reason other than "because we can".  People put allot of time into MMO's, so if I played another one of their games, I could not trust that they would not just do that again.

 

Where do you get your information about the account information?  I see ppl keep saying that it is not usable for some ambiguous legal reasons.  You could write a script in 10 minutes that would strip any "sensitive personal information" away.  I am an engineer, when people say that they can't do something it always leaves me skeptical (and I usually find it is won't not can't).  Also, if the COX property had changed hands back in the day rather than shutting down, obviously the new owners would have just continued with the same player base, accounts and all.  I am not trying to start a fight either.  It sounds like "Hollywood accounting" or some dumb shit like that, so whatever.

 

-Bodai

 

[Bodai]

  On 1/3/2020 at 1:27 PM, Seigmoraig said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one that has been boycotting them for the past 15 years !

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Right there with you.  And I am not putting hate on them, I would have a beer with them.  But I won't ever play one of their games again either, if I did then I would be the fool.

 

-Bodai

[boggo2300]

  On 1/5/2020 at 4:56 AM, Bodai said:

You won't find me getting worked up either way.  The bottom line if NC Soft betrayed people's trust and for no good reason other than "because we can".  People put allot of time into MMO's, so if I played another one of their games, I could not trust that they would not just do that again.

 

Where do you get your information about the account information?  I see ppl keep saying that it is not usable for some ambiguous legal reasons.  You could write a script in 10 minutes that would strip any "sensitive personal information" away.  I am an engineer, when people say that they can't do something it always leaves me skeptical (and I usually find it is won't not can't).  Also, if the COX property had changed hands back in the day rather than shutting down, obviously the new owners would have just continued with the same player base, accounts and all.  I am not trying to start a fight either.  It sounds like "Hollywood accounting" or some dumb shit like that, so whatever.

 

-Bodai

 

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Two people had the account information, after NC-Soft contacted HC those people destroyed their copies of the database, search around here on this forum and you will find it, and it's not an ambiguous legal reason, it's illegal for anyone but NC-Soft to have that data in the US, EU, Canada and pretty much most other countries players are in.  If the game had changed hands yes, maybe the database could have been transferred, though that is by no means guaranteed.

 

[Bodai]

  On 1/5/2020 at 5:03 AM, boggo2300 said:

Two people had the account information, after NC-Soft contacted HC those people destroyed their copies of the database, search around here on this forum and you will find it, and it's not an ambiguous legal reason, it's illegal for anyone but NC-Soft to have that data in the US, EU, Canada and pretty much most other countries players are in.  If the game had changed hands yes, maybe the database could have been transferred, though that is by no means guaranteed.

 

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That's all fine, I am not saying it is likely, but the chance is not zero either.

[boggo2300]

  On 1/5/2020 at 5:24 AM, Bodai said:

That's all fine, I am not saying it is likely, but the chance is not zero either.

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well apart from Homecoming officially saying it's off the table...

[Bodai]

To the theory that it was shuttered because it was not making "enough money", the standard practice for a publicly traded company would be to spin it off / sell it (possibly like paragon vs NC Soft?, I dunno).  And I don't think we heard anything from shareholders or such either way.  So it is all just speculation.  I think the fact that it is a Korean company is probably important, but not sure how.  But from my experiences with Japan and China, it is a bad idea to do business with radically different cultures without an abundance of caution, I could write a series of books on that and it probably still would not make sense.

 

As far as the trademarks, still not enough info, but they are a big enough company that maybe they are just trying to hold on to a portfolio like Disney and other movie studios do.  Sony made a bunch of crappy Spider Man movies just to hold onto the license.

 

-Bodai

[Bodai]

  On 1/5/2020 at 5:26 AM, boggo2300 said:

well apart from Homecoming officially saying it's off the table...

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Maybe after whatever is going to happen happens, they can explain that.  I would be really curious.

 

If you aimed for 10 you could hit 7, but never if you only aimed for 5.

[boggo2300]

  On 1/5/2020 at 5:39 AM, Bodai said:

Maybe after whatever is going to happen happens, they can explain that.  I would be really curious.

 

If you aimed for 10 you could hit 7, but never if you only aimed for 5.

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theyve explained it already, NC-soft would only negotiate if the player DB was gone