marcussmythe Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I'm finding it very hard to design a melee character that doesnt use shield defense. It offers positional defense, so its straightforward to softcap vs. all types. It offers a very powerful +DAM effect right in the secondary, which is in effect as long as you are fighting opponents - the more the merrier - while debuffing incoming damage. It offers resist baked into the set - not a phenomenal amount, but it helps - which gives you a solid base for further increasing resists with IOs. To top all of the above off, its only two real holes, lack of END and RES income, are cured by the selection of Dark Melee - which offers both. Even if you dont go Dark Melee, END woes are fading by late game, not to mention the impact of the incarnate slots, and you could always go rad. Or just carry a few green candy, since you dont need purple candy anymore. So, other than the fact that I dont want all my characters to carry a shield, how do we get away from it? Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Do a bunch of ITFs and watch those defensive numbers plummet fast? To me that's its biggest drawback, but that's a weakness most sets have to varying degrees. It's been a long time, but I recall feeling WP and SR did a better job of keeping me alive longer than Shield for longer fights, especially against AVs. Shield is a pretty great set, quite likely the best overall secondary for Scrappers(depending on preferences of course), so I'm not sure I can talk you out of it. I was able to solo Ghost Widow once(but only once lol) with my DM/SR, and I don't think I would ever get close to doing that with my FM/SD. Edit: Bio may not be the prettiest set, and I don't have experience with it, but the raw numbers appear to be extremely impressive. So when built up with high end slotting, it very well could be pretty great. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverdusk Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 A shame I can't design a katana/shield character, or a spines/shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenlocke Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Clicky Mez protection would be my pet peeve with the set. Takes up the auto-activate slot which could be better used for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Shield takes significantly more investment than WP or SR does in terms of pure survivability, not particularly great at PvP, can't be paired with Katana or Spines, and like you noted has some end issues until late in the game. Even paired with DM it still has end issues lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I love /Shield. I think I had two or three /Shields at 50, with my Fire/Shield being one of my two favorites to play. I would be a complete failure if I tried to talk you out of it. But other secondaries really are just as good overall, just with different strengths and weaknesses, their own way of being played. I'd think just for the variety of play style you'd want to pick some others. So I guess that's my pitch - level up a /Shield, sure, but then do something else for variety. Maybe you'll find you like a different way of playing even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 Im having a deep love affair with my spines/bio brute, and Ive a DM/Invuln Tank and a Fire/Ninja Sentinel begging for love as well. Once thise are done, it will probably be ?/Shield - Murchealagos build for DM/Shield is so perfect that Im tempted to copy it. May go fire or psi or an actual ‘weapon’. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 As a plug for Super Reflexes, I think it may be possible for an SO build Dark Melee/Super Reflexes to solo an AV under Scrapper challenge rules. I tried many times. I always failed. But it felt possible. I got my heal from Dark Melee. I wasn't able to soft cap, but I was close. Damage output was barely adequate, so eventually, luck would catch up with me before I could finish the job. In any case, Super Reflexes can be very impressive with very little investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 As a plug for Super Reflexes, I think it may be possible for an SO build Dark Melee/Super Reflexes to solo an AV under Scrapper challenge rules. I tried many times. I always failed. But it felt possible. I got my heal from Dark Melee. I wasn't able to soft cap, but I was close. Damage output was barely adequate, so eventually, luck would catch up with me before I could finish the job. In any case, Super Reflexes can be very impressive with very little investment. So much this. I'd also like to add that you can go with lower level IO sets so you can still be soft capped when you exemplar. My DM/Sr was soft capped all the way down to level 27 or 28, and this was before Incarnate slots were introduced(I don't even recall how those work when exemplared). It was a ton of fun running Hess and Citadel Task Forces soft capped and able to go full Scrapperlock without any real worries. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_nomind Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 As a plug for Super Reflexes, I think it may be possible for an SO build Dark Melee/Super Reflexes to solo an AV under Scrapper challenge rules. I tried many times. I always failed. But it felt possible. I got my heal from Dark Melee. I wasn't able to soft cap, but I was close. Damage output was barely adequate, so eventually, luck would catch up with me before I could finish the job. In any case, Super Reflexes can be very impressive with very little investment. Werner! Been so long I've forgotten the Scrapper Challenge rules, but your accomplishments are eternal. Anyway, here's the bare-bones of a DM/SR build I've been working on as part of a series of set-less builds for new players, people looking for a challenge, and people who ask dumb questions. I rejiggered it slightly to be softcapped and (probably usually) end-stable with SOs only. I think the last two powers might be Assault and Tactics (latter to ease slotting on the attacks), but finishing offense wasn't the point of this. Among the many things I've forgotten is the scaling on SR's damage resist, so I have no idea how useful the Tough slotting is. http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1358&c=529&a=1058&f=HEX&dc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o-Set Builds: Tanker Scrapper Brute Stalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobu Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Do a bunch of ITFs and watch those defensive numbers plummet fast? Shield has pretty decent Defense Debuff Resistance, and if you're +5% over the softcap you'll be good most of the time. And if you watch your defenses and pop a purple once in a while, you'll be good nearly all of the time. Mind you, sometimes RNG just wants you to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Do a bunch of ITFs and watch those defensive numbers plummet fast? Shield has pretty decent Defense Debuff Resistance, and if you're +5% over the softcap you'll be good most of the time. And if you watch your defenses and pop a purple once in a while, you'll be good nearly all of the time. Mind you, sometimes RNG just wants you to die. You're right, I didn't generally have many problems with my Fire/SD. But it did happen from time to time, and it always cracked me up when the Scrapperlock turned into debt. Really I'm just grasping for reasons for someone to skip a really great set. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejtmane Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 As a plug for Super Reflexes, I think it may be possible for an SO build Dark Melee/Super Reflexes to solo an AV under Scrapper challenge rules. I tried many times. I always failed. But it felt possible. I got my heal from Dark Melee. I wasn't able to soft cap, but I was close. Damage output was barely adequate, so eventually, luck would catch up with me before I could finish the job. In any case, Super Reflexes can be very impressive with very little investment. I had a DM/SR and a Katana/SR (perma-elude before ED and IO's) but after playing Shield and having a taunt aura on my scrapper I now get frustrated with non-taunt aura scrappers. I prefer EA over /sr because the time buff aura taunts. Yea /sr is probably the easiest and cheapest scrapper to build to solo and AV; I am so jealous of /sr brutes so want their taunt aura on scrapper FlashBack to old days: Pinnacle Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50 Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50 Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50; Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50; Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockpick Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Do a bunch of ITFs and watch those defensive numbers plummet fast? To me that's its biggest drawback, but that's a weakness most sets have to varying degrees. It's been a long time, but I recall feeling WP and SR did a better job of keeping me alive longer than Shield for longer fights, especially against AVs. Shield is a pretty great set, quite likely the best overall secondary for Scrappers(depending on preferences of course), so I'm not sure I can talk you out of it. I was able to solo Ghost Widow once(but only once lol) with my DM/SR, and I don't think I would ever get close to doing that with my FM/SD. Edit: Bio may not be the prettiest set, and I don't have experience with it, but the raw numbers appear to be extremely impressive. So when built up with high end slotting, it very well could be pretty great. Back in the day I did tons of ITFs with my MA/SD and never had any problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Another excuse for not using shield, it doesn't always fit the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcussmythe Posted May 18, 2019 Author Share Posted May 18, 2019 Another excuse for not using shield, it doesn't always fit the concept. Totally, in fluff/rp terms. I dont care for the run cycle, and ‘carries a shield’ isnt most of my characters. But mechanically, oh man. Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper C'len - Spines/Bio Brute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Do a bunch of ITFs and watch those defensive numbers plummet fast? To me that's its biggest drawback, but that's a weakness most sets have to varying degrees. It's been a long time, but I recall feeling WP and SR did a better job of keeping me alive longer than Shield for longer fights, especially against AVs. Shield is a pretty great set, quite likely the best overall secondary for Scrappers(depending on preferences of course), so I'm not sure I can talk you out of it. I was able to solo Ghost Widow once(but only once lol) with my DM/SR, and I don't think I would ever get close to doing that with my FM/SD. Edit: Bio may not be the prettiest set, and I don't have experience with it, but the raw numbers appear to be extremely impressive. So when built up with high end slotting, it very well could be pretty great. Back in the day I did tons of ITFs with my MA/SD and never had any problem. The only time it ever came up was when I decided to go full Scrapperlock and get in way over my head, which I was constantly trying to do. The numbers didn't plummet often, but when they did, they went fast. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 ...Been so long I've forgotten the Scrapper Challenge rules... I think these were the Scrapper challenge rules: engage the entire group at once no temporary powers no inspirations no veteran powers no base empowerment buffs no click accolades no deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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