Thoughts on skipping caltrops and trip mine in /Traps?

[Dan the Human]

Looking for opinions on skipping caltrops and trip mine for a primarily team oriented MM that will occasionally solo. Specifically rolling Demons/Traps. I would like to free up a slot at early levels to make the build more exemplar friendly and to take recall friend asap. I would also like to take an attack power for thematic reasons, and because it's my understanding that the attack powers in demons are some of the best available. If anyone has an opinion on corruption vs lash I would appreciate that as well. Thanks everyone!

[TheSpiritFox]

Caltrops is one of your more useful team powers. With a good amount of recharge it's up alot and you can slot it out with procs. It provides soft control via fear mechanics and slow and a proc mule that can stack on itself with enough recharge in your build. 

 

Trip mine is a garbage power and you should skip it in any sane build. Take caltrops and sacrifice somewhere else. You can slot procs in it surprisingly early and if attuned they add a good bit to your damage. 

 

I would skip trip mine and detonator.  And tbh, triage beacon can be pretty solid at high levels, at low levels it's meh. Cool thing about triage beacon, it takes absorb procs and can trigger them on everyone in it's radius. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Dan the Human]

Thanks for the info. Does Caltrops still work as a proc mule? I thought I read somewhere that in i25 they took out that functionality, and it's only good with Ragnarok +KD now. Any thoughts on Corruption vs Lash? I'm leaning towards Corruption for the range. Also, any thoughts on an Epic/Patron pool for this combo? I was thinking Heat for Bonfire or Mace for Scorpion Shield.

[seebs]

Caltrops is amazing. It works fine with procs last I heard, but I honestly slot it mostly for recharge. The power of that fear mechanic is amazing.

 

Trip mine is pretty awful because it's interruptible. On /dev, it's a lovely power. On MM, though, I still take it sometimes for hard targets. There's a lot to be said for being able to have someone walk into a stack of 10x one of your highest-damage attacks all at once.

[Heraclea]

Caltrops gives you a possibility of survival when everything goes south, your pets are three quarters dead, and the mobs target you.  Its chief virtue is that it distracts melee mobs, and the best place to cast it is at your own feet.  You will want to use a macro that targets yourself as the place to put them.  And it takes all sorts of procs from the slow sets, and takes the Pacing of the Turtle -recharge proc. 

[Redlynne]

Caltrops is a battlefield control power.  There are SOOOOO many things you can do with Caltrops that it's not even funny (even though a lot of the things ARE funny).  Do not skip Caltrops.  Instead, take a deeper dive into what Caltrops can do with different slotting options, because there's a LOT of variance available.

 

Trip Mine is "too good" when you've got damage plus a Force Feedback proc slotted into Trip Mine.  With ZERO recharge enhancement in Trip Mine you've got an almost 90% chance to proc the 2 PPM Force Feedback every time you cast/lay down a Trip Mine (2*(20+5)/60=83.33%), dropping the recharge time down from 20s to 10s just on the Force Feedback proc ALONE.  With enough global recharge enhancement (Hasten, set bonuses) you can get to the point where Trip Mine recharges just as fast as you can cast it (5s).  So basically you're wanting to frankenslot for accuracy, damage and endurance reduction and use Trip Mine as a pretty RELIABLE way to proc Force Feedback, which will then "hurry up" the recharge on ALL of your powers!  Team standing around not doing much for a few seconds?  Lay a Trip Mine and boost your recharge while you're waiting for them.  Lay down a STACK of Trip Mines and corner pull something nasty into them (thereby "golfing" them upon detonation of the stack)!

10 hours ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Trip mine is a garbage power and you should skip it in any sane build.

ONE Trip Mine ... alone ... by itself, is probably not worth the effort.

STACKED Trip Mines can be the difference between victory and defeat ... because Trip Mines function like a Delayed Blast Fireball that's just waiting to go off in some $Target's face.

Trip Mines that blast $Targets off high places into long falls ... NEVER gets old ...

 

Bare minimum, Trip Mine ... perhaps more than any other power you can take as a Mastemind ... NEEDS to have a Force Feedback proc slotted into it.  After that bit of cleverness, it's up to you to figure out how to be RUDE to your $Targets with them.  Needless to say, there's a LOT of cleverness and trickery that can result of skillful use of Trip Mine(s) when stacked into "flower gardens" just waiting to blow up ... and yes, the "configuration patterns" of where to put them in relation to other Trip Mines and the overall battle itself is one of those bits of cleverness and trickery.

[ScarySai]

Skipping trip mine is acceptable, but won't be if they ever fix it like they did for /devices.

 

Never. EVER. Skip caltrops.

[TheSpiritFox]

11 hours ago, Dan the Human said:

Thanks for the info. Does Caltrops still work as a proc mule? I thought I read somewhere that in i25 they took out that functionality, and it's only good with Ragnarok +KD now. Any thoughts on Corruption vs Lash? I'm leaning towards Corruption for the range. Also, any thoughts on an Epic/Patron pool for this combo? I was thinking Heat for Bonfire or Mace for Scorpion Shield.

Caltrops without recharge in the actual power is an excellent proc mule. It has a long duration, 45s and it's very possible to get the recharge with a high recharge build to the point you have a sub 30 second cooldown. It's a good place for overwhelming force knockdown, it is also a good place for a -res proc, and then if you want you can slot it out with up to 4 additional damage procs (I do) and if you buy them attuned caltrops stays amazing even when you exemp down to like posi levels. 

Epics with /traps? Bonfire stacking with caltrops can potentially drop AVs on their back. Mace will potentially softcap you defensively while giving you an AOE immob you can stack with web grenade to immob bosses pretty easily. Mu would be more resistance and another solid immobilize. 

[plainguy]

Being a very defense type oriented player I am more about what will the set bonus give me. 

For example I have seen some builds that have kick, punch, brawl slotted for a set bonus.  I try to stay away from that if I can because I feel those powers are inferior. 

But that being said.

 

Traps will get you defense capped.

Traps was the first Tankermind / Provoke build out here.

Traps is a very safe set, meaning you don't have to play that much with game mechanics like for example you do with Time to get defense capped.

Traps is the only set that will allow you to go or afford you the ability to go petless even when your forced and still do DPS via Trip mine. 

 

I can tell you that I have had several moments with Traps in which I lost my pets due to a bad pull or too much aggro because FFG and Acid Mortar attract aggro.

It was in those moments I could pop a few Inspirations, Drop Caltrops to make mobs run around and then Drop a trip mine, followed by poison trap and another trip mine to clear out mobs. Thus giving me breathing room resummon my pets. 

 

I usually go Dark with Traps because the combination of Oppressive Gloom with Defense cap is really good, then add in Poison Traps with the lockdown proc.  I am telling you that you are severely cutting down on the incoming attacks. 

 

I get wanting the whip attacks as I have several petless or semipetless builds around whips. Its cool fun animation.

 

But that being said being able to tank an AV is pretty cool as well. 

 

So with all that verbal diarrhea, I say don't skip either because they both have a really good value to a defense capped Traps build.

[Scarlet Shocker]

A useful, and oft overlooked thing about Caltrops in the early game is that you can slot it with the free Knockdown Prestige enhancement from the moment you get it, adding survivabilty and bonus hilarity to your build from a very early stage.

[tidge]

I wish Caltrops was the T1 power in the MM secondary instead of Web Grenade. I would never skip it, not during levelling nor as part of a Respec. It is simply too useful.

 

I usually skip Trip Mines. I like the crazy suggestions for them, but you can also do some crazy things with Seeker Drones and they will travel with you. Honestly my builds are usually becoming starved for slots so the higher tier secondary powers haven't been given as much attention.

[Richard Nelson]

Late game when all kitted out, you can get away with skipping Caltrops and Trip Mines. But early game you need caltrops for control and late it's still useful. Trip mine is more a mater of taste.