Consolidated CoH difficulty thread (Includes Poll!)

[Tahliah]

21 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

The people saying the LEVELLING game is too easy are just wrong and should simply be ignored.  Is the game too easy at high level?  Maybe. But the idea that the game just generally should be harder is really stupid.  That's what the difficulty settings are FOR.  If you claim that +4 x8 isn't hard enough for you WHEN LEVELLING then you're a liar.

Are people saying that leveling is too easy or that it's too easy once we are incarnate?  I'm confused here.  If it's leveling, then, no, it's definitely not too easy.  If we're talking about incarnates doing regular game content, then yeah, upping the diff doesn't change anything except give me more pesky gnats to swat down (which in turn becomes boring, as I noted above).  Incarnates doing incarnate level content (i.e. DA and trials) I don't think is too easy, either. 

 

I guess some people must think regular content prior to 50 is too easy since we see calls for low level tfs at +4/x8, which is insane to me (even masochistic), but I can see how people would think regular lvl 50 content is too easy for incarnates unless the diff is bumped up (we're running at +1 ourselves, after all, plus we have awesome incarnate powers).  I laughed my ass off when I saw people in PI during the Halloween event using their judgement on those pitiful little vamps and witches that spew out when you knock a door.  So not needed, but hey, it's fun, so why not?  Being incarnate is FUN, and it's not like every player will go to the trouble of making their every toon incarnate (many people don't even bother to play to 50 at all, and those of us who do, don't care to pursue that on every single alt.  I have two incarnate 50s, and I am planning on only two more in the foreseeable future--neither is 50 now). 

 

For example, my fully slotted incarnate alt can solo content that the exact same AT with the exact same powers cannot in a million years.  That's how it's supposed to be; I invested a great deal of time, planning, hours, inf, and FUN into building my main.  I have other ice blasters who are working their way up and can't even begin to handle what she can with her purple, superior, and full IO sets (plus procs and all the other love we give our favorites).  That's okay, it's even good.  I WANT her to be fantastic and fun and god-like.  I don't need, want, expect, or intend to put that much love into every single toon I roll.

 

Ultimately, then, we should not change the game to make incarnates less fabulous, and we don't need to change it to make regular, leveling content more challenging.  It already is, and we can up the diff if we need to while leveling (again, I think it's just annoying at the incarnate level to have to kill 30 instead of 10 enemies when my health doesn't dip once in the entire "fight"--and I run a blaster, an AT known for face-planting. Often.). 

[Infinitum]

11 hours ago, Tahliah said:

Are people saying that leveling is too easy or that it's too easy once we are incarnate?  I'm confused here.  If it's leveling, then, no, it's definitely not too easy.  If we're talking about incarnates doing regular game content, then yeah, upping the diff doesn't change anything except give me more pesky gnats to swat down (which in turn becomes boring, as I noted above).  Incarnates doing incarnate level content (i.e. DA and trials) I don't think is too easy, either. 

 

I guess some people must think regular content prior to 50 is too easy since we see calls for low level tfs at +4/x8, which is insane to me (even masochistic), but I can see how people would think regular lvl 50 content is too easy for incarnates unless the diff is bumped up (we're running at +1 ourselves, after all, plus we have awesome incarnate powers).  I laughed my ass off when I saw people in PI during the Halloween event using their judgement on those pitiful little vamps and witches that spew out when you knock a door.  So not needed, but hey, it's fun, so why not?  Being incarnate is FUN, and it's not like every player will go to the trouble of making their every toon incarnate (many people don't even bother to play to 50 at all, and those of us who do, don't care to pursue that on every single alt.  I have two incarnate 50s, and I am planning on only two more in the foreseeable future--neither is 50 now). 

 

For example, my fully slotted incarnate alt can solo content that the exact same AT with the exact same powers cannot in a million years.  That's how it's supposed to be; I invested a great deal of time, planning, hours, inf, and FUN into building my main.  I have other ice blasters who are working their way up and can't even begin to handle what she can with her purple, superior, and full IO sets (plus procs and all the other love we give our favorites).  That's okay, it's even good.  I WANT her to be fantastic and fun and god-like.  I don't need, want, expect, or intend to put that much love into every single toon I roll.

 

Ultimately, then, we should not change the game to make incarnates less fabulous, and we don't need to change it to make regular, leveling content more challenging.  It already is, and we can up the diff if we need to while leveling (again, I think it's just annoying at the incarnate level to have to kill 30 instead of 10 enemies when my health doesn't dip once in the entire "fight"--and I run a blaster, an AT known for face-planting. Often.). 

And that, ladies and gentlemen is my nightly experience playing COH. 

 

First time I teamed with Tahliah was in Dark Astoria the first incarnate arc with my tank Captain Infinitum, we ran it +4/8 and it was challenging, fun, but still we made it out as the victors.

 

Agree with what you said 100% Tahliah.

 

If anything we need new content to stretch our legs as incarnates in unique ways.  But again the dev team works for free and that's an undertaking developing new content, I'm just glad the game is back - and will enjoy it as it is regardless.

[naraganeun]

have yall played against the talons of vengeance in dark astoria? they summon huge auto hit fields that will demolish your team without a dominator or heals. that's a perfect example of a mob glow-up that makes the game more challenging

[Wavicle]

Just now, naraganeun said:

have yall played against the talons of vengeance in dark astoria? they summon huge auto hit fields that will demolish your team without a dominator or heals. that's a perfect example of a mob glow-up that makes the game more challenging

And it needs to stay in Dark Astoria. Incarnates are equipped to handle stuff like, that that’s the whole point.

[gameboy1234]

12 hours ago, Tahliah said:

Are people saying that leveling is too easy or that it's too easy once we are incarnate?

I'm saying it's too easy, including normal leveling.

 

One of the biggest issues is XP gain.  Doing a simple arc is enough to push me out of the level range of all of its following contacts.  XP gain for a "real" server needs to go down.  If people desire higher XP gain rates the P2W vendor can increase XP gain.  (Example starting Jim Temblor's arc at level 15 I *almost* out leveled Penelope Yin's arc immediately after his.  Did his arc with 5 people total on normal difficulty.  That's too much. (I probably had the weekday playing bonus and possibly patrol XP bonus on top of that.)).

 

Also the default difficulty is too easy.  It needs to go up; not much but a bit.  Running on increased difficulty should scale up as well to match.  I'm not sure exactly how much but something like 10% increase in enemy HP across the board and 10% increase in enemy damage (but not To-Hit, and not to Mag of effects or Recharge or Range or anything else.)  Somewhere around there so +0 is a little harder and +4 is actually hard would be about right.  If the content continues to be easy to incarnates that's fine, I'm just talking about normal play.

 

[Wavicle]

Have you tried playing without the double XP turned on?

[Wavicle]

And have you tried playing an archetype that isn’t a primary DPS?

[Wavicle]

Anyway, just remember we all realize you’re wrong. The base game is not too easy for people with SOs.

Edited January 29, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Wavicle]

 

55 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

I'm saying it's too easy, including normal leveling.

 

One of the biggest issues is XP gain.  Doing a simple arc is enough to push me out of the level range of all of its following contacts.  XP gain for a "real" server needs to go down.  If people desire higher XP gain rates the P2W vendor can increase XP gain.  (Example starting Jim Temblor's arc at level 15 I *almost* out leveled Penelope Yin's arc immediately after his.  Did his arc with 5 people total on normal difficulty.  That's too much. (I probably had the weekday playing bonus and possibly patrol XP bonus on top of that.)).

 

Also the default difficulty is too easy.  It needs to go up; not much but a bit.  Running on increased difficulty should scale up as well to match.  I'm not sure exactly how much but something like 10% increase in enemy HP across the board and 10% increase in enemy damage (but not To-Hit, and not to Mag of effects or Recharge or Range or anything else.)  Somewhere around there so +0 is a little harder and +4 is actually hard would be about right.  If the content continues to be easy to incarnates that's fine, I'm just talking about normal play.

 

The solution to this problem is to make it so you can do old arcs at THEIR level, not to change levelling speed.

[Wavicle]

But since Oro exists that isn't exactly high priority.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, sacredlunatic said:

Anyway, just remember we all realize you’re wrong. The base game is not too easy for people with SOs.

How do you know that? Not trying to be confrontational or condescending, but do we actually know?

[Wavicle]

I'm making a claim with confidence based on personal experience (I level almost every toon with SOs, or mostly SOs) and based on feedback from others.

I don't KNOW, but I believe with great confidence, lol.

[skoryy]

2 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

I'm saying it's too easy, including normal leveling.

 

One of the biggest issues is XP gain.  Doing a simple arc is enough to push me out of the level range of all of its following contacts.  XP gain for a "real" server needs to go down.  If people desire higher XP gain rates the P2W vendor can increase XP gain.  (Example starting Jim Temblor's arc at level 15 I *almost* out leveled Penelope Yin's arc immediately after his.  Did his arc with 5 people total on normal difficulty.  That's too much. (I probably had the weekday playing bonus and possibly patrol XP bonus on top of that.)).

 

Also the default difficulty is too easy.  It needs to go up; not much but a bit.  Running on increased difficulty should scale up as well to match.  I'm not sure exactly how much but something like 10% increase in enemy HP across the board and 10% increase in enemy damage (but not To-Hit, and not to Mag of effects or Recharge or Range or anything else.)  Somewhere around there so +0 is a little harder and +4 is actually hard would be about right.  If the content continues to be easy to incarnates that's fine, I'm just talking about normal play.

 

Teaming up is supposed to be more rewarding.  Its basic MMO design.

[gameboy1234]

1 minute ago, skoryy said:

Teaming up is supposed to be more rewarding.  Its basic MMO design.

I think however it is still way too rewarding for just one arc, about five or six missions.  I gained close to four levels -- from level 15 to level 19, in just that one arc.

 

I can turn off XP for myself but it gets fiddly and I can easily forget or forget the level of other content.  A more sedate pace I think would be better.

 

[skoryy]

44 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

I think however it is still way too rewarding for just one arc, about five or six missions.  I gained close to four levels -- from level 15 to level 19, in just that one arc.

 

I can turn off XP for myself but it gets fiddly and I can easily forget or forget the level of other content.  A more sedate pace I think would be better.

 

So everyone else's difficulty goes up because you're unable to use the turn off XP function.

 

I'll avoid the reaction image but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one making the same face right now.

Edited January 29, 2020 by skoryy

[CU_Krow]

Bump. Anyone know if this thread is seriously being considered by Homecoming team? Too lazy to look through all 7 pages of cycling info.

[Klaleara]

Before I contribute to this thread, what the hell are "Glow-ups"?  Inspirations?

[Galaxy Brain]

10 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Before I contribute to this thread, what the hell are "Glow-ups"?  Inspirations?

"Glow-Up" is a term the kidz use to describe a personal improvement. Look at Neville in the early movies vs Neville in the last one for example 😉 

 

 

Or Banished Pantheon pre and post DA, or hell DA itself lol

Edited February 5, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[Klaleara]

6 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

"Glow-Up" is a term the kidz use to describe a personal improvement. Look at Neville in the early movies vs Neville in the last one for example 😉 

 

 

Or Banished Pantheon pre and post DA, or hell DA itself lol

You know, I hate to say it.  But your response didn't help at all with my understanding of this lol.  If anything, you confused me more.

[Ruin Mage]

People should probably re-consider their desires based on a few things;

• What the current team is capable of
• What is and isn't hard-coded into this game

 

Some of these voting options forgo thinking of either or both. The game isn't meant to be difficult, and here's why:

• People have figured out the game top to bottom. They know what numbers to crunch, what works, and what doesn't.
• The game, by design, is meant to get easier as you level and build up your character.
• The game's content got put to an abrupt halt at i24 beta.
• It's an MMO that predates WoW and much of modern MMO methodology.

I get it, the lacking of difficulty is a real boner killer.

But there are other games and other servers.

HC's entire design is to be a CoH that is accessible to everyone. Asking for difficulty changes goes against that. Especially these voting options.

Example: Combatting steamrolling is impossible. Scrappers inherently will steam roll stuff. An entire team of blasters will melt a TF.
You cannot feasibly combat that in this game. Not while TW/Bio exists as well, might I add.

[Galaxy Brain]

Just now, Klaleara said:

You know, I hate to say it.  But your response didn't help at all with my understanding of this lol.  If anything, you confused me more.

 

 

 

 

Essentially, a radical transformation for the "better". Banished pantheon being a prime CoH example.

[Ruin Mage]

Essentially, Klal - A glow-up in CoH is a re-design.

 

For COH, the redesign happened around endgame content (namely DA) - where BP got some really nasty enemies as part of their Incarnate'ing.

[Bartacus]

I must have missed this thread before, but I love all the suggestions in the poll and they are great examples of how to increase difficulty. 

I don't think that leveling is too easy. It's mainly endgame that's the issue when it comes to difficulty in that it's too easy. It's a tough balance because you don't want progression to grind to a halt after 50, but that progression has made a lot of the content really trivial. In 50 teams, I literally never die on any of my characters (defenders, corruptors included). It's hard to enjoy the content when all of it feels like just running through mobs and obliterating them before they can even respond. 

[Klaleara]

2 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Essentially, Klal - A glow-up in CoH is a re-design.

 

For COH, the redesign happened around endgame content (namely DA) - where BP got some really nasty enemies as part of their Incarnate'ing.

Got that from his second post,  Wish he just said what you did though lol.

 

And no, I don't think an entire redesign of basically the entire game would be necessary.

 

As I said in the previous one, I'd love new difficulties, but I do not want them to just be +5 and +6 levels.  Due to accuracy issues that arise, and missing a lot is never a fun element to the game.

 

If we add further difficulties, I definitely think it needs to be more specifically adjusted.

 

My proposal for hard modes, increase the health of Minions and Lt's by quite a bit.  Make it so they don't melt within the first 1-2 seconds of a fight, and actually have a chance of hitting back.  Then increase the accuracy and damage of Boss's and above, so they are actually threatening.

 

To add more to it, I'd also would like to see Boss's and above receive Leadership.  Giving all Minions and Lt's a nice boost to defense, damage, and accuracy.

 

Goal for this:  Make it so Controllers are actually important for controlling again, as you'll want to lockdown Minions and Lt's as they dont die instantly.  Also adds increased usage for single target specialists, due to the fact we want to burn down Bosses a lot quicker.  So group play becomes a bit more tactical.

[Ruin Mage]

Just now, Klaleara said:

As I said in the previous one, I'd love new difficulties, but I do not want them to just be +5 and +6 levels.  Due to accuracy issues that arise, and missing a lot is never a fun element to the game.

Game is hard-coded for +4/x8 as the max.

 

 

1 minute ago, Klaleara said:

My proposal for hard modes, increase the health of Minions and Lt's by quite a bit.  Make it so they don't melt within the first 1-2 seconds of a fight, and actually have a chance of hitting back.  Then increase the accuracy and damage of Boss's and above, so they are actually threatening.

Health boosting would solve no issue. Teams would still stomp the living crap out of them.
Accuracy and Damage wouldn't do anything while Dark Miasma and other support sets exists. Defenders, corruptors, and controllers would make your changes a non-issue.
 

 

2 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

So group play becomes a bit more tactical.

The game was not built to be tactical.