Power Set Suggestion: Atrophy Melee/Assault

[oedipus_tex]

One common power seen in comics, science, and fantasy fiction is the ability to drain enemies gently, with or without contact (depending on the hero or villain). Most of the existing animations for Melee and Assault sets are violent attacks. I'd like to see a powerset devoted to more gentle, but just as deadly, assaults.

 

Because this powerset is in many ways the inverse of Empathy, I propose the name "Atrophy Melee/ Assault."

 

•  

Ideally, it would be great if the attacks actually physically touched the target. But, given what we have to pick from, being able to drain gently from a short distance would also be fine to me.

 

Set Concept: Atrophy Melee / Assault

 

Animation: Since new animations are likely not in the cards, this set would need to borrow from existing sets. Luckily there are a number of touch-like animations in the existing Buff and Control sets.

• Heal Other (reach forward with both hands)
• Haunt (roll one hand and reach out)
• Deflection Shield (reach forward with one hand)
• Fire Breath (alt animation) (step forward with hand out reached)
• Radiation Infection (reach one arm forward and hold that pose or a moment)

 

Particle Effects: Borrowed from Empathy and Pain powersets

 

I don't have any specific stats to share, because those tend to get worked out at design time. I can just picture the set having powers with names like:

• Grasp
• Enervate
• Enfeeble
• Degenerate
• Devitalize
• Drain
• Caress
• Embrace

 

Cool extras:

 

• Instead of Build Up, the set could get a version of Drain Psyche, possibly with different effects. Same concept though: drain foes to get stronger.
• The set's secondary effect could be -Damage.

[Zepp]

Can you outline generally what these powers look like?

 

How do you differentiate from dark melee?

[oedipus_tex]

7 hours ago, Zepp said:

Can you outline generally what these powers look like?

 

How do you differentiate from dark melee?

 

Most of the suggested animations look like the character stretching a hand out toward a target, as opposed to violently punching.

 

Dark Melee, in general, looks like you are throwing a punch, at least for the core powers. 

 

In terms of differentiation, Dark Melee does -ToHit as opposed to -Damage and limits the color palette to subtractive tones. Atrophy Melee could as easily belong to an angel as to a lich or succubus. Or to any character whose skin/touch/presence is draining.

[Alchemystic]

11 hours ago, Zepp said:

Can you outline generally what these powers look like?

 

How do you differentiate from dark melee?

Maybe make the powerset dark/toxic instead of plain dark.

[Zepp]

Those responses sound reasonable.

8 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Atrophy Melee could as easily belong to an angel as to a lich or succubus. Or to any character whose skin/touch/presence is draining.

Actually, I think I may have some co-workers who may have atrophy melee...

[Menelruin]

Wouldn't it work to just have a..."less brutal" animation set for Dark Melee?

[Zepp]

10 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

Wouldn't it work to just have a..."less brutal" animation set for Dark Melee?

A "less brutal" animation set for Dark Melee would still have -ToHit rather than -Dmg. There are currently no -Dmg melee sets. It is also thematically different.

[Menelruin]

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

A "less brutal" animation set for Dark Melee would still have -ToHit rather than -Dmg. There are currently no -Dmg melee sets. It is also thematically different.

Kinetic Melee?

[Zepp]

Forgot about that.

[Safehouse]

7 hours ago, Zepp said:

Forgot about that.

I could still see this set with -Dmg even if Kinetic Melee has it too. It would be a different flavor of it. There are multiple different melee sets that have a -Def effect (Titan weapons, savage melee, and rad melee to name 3), so I don’t see any problem with a little overlap.

[oedipus_tex]

19 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Wouldn't it work to just have a..."less brutal" animation set for Dark Melee?

 

You could if you could find animations with exactly matching animation times. Dark Melee's animation times are for the most part don't match up with existing buff animations that I know of.

• Shadow Punch - 0.83
• Smite - 0.97
• Shadow Maul - 3.07 (outlier--note this is also the sands of mu animation)

 

Seems like it would be easier to just create a new set.

 

Two powers in Dark Melee do have similar characteristics to the proposed Atrophy set:

• Touch of Fear - uses a 1.17 second 'reach out' animation shared with Cold Domination's ice shields
• Midnight Grasp - uses the 2.07 second animation shared with Force Fields Deflection Shield

 

Buff powers generally have slowish animations in the +2 second range. Thus, the resulting attack would also be slow animating. To compensate, it would would need to deliver enough DPA to keep up with other sets. 

 

 

RE: Kinetic Melee. I feel like that is something else entirely. Kinetic Melee is a wonderfully strange set and I don't see it as similar conceptually to a touch-attack set.

Edited January 18, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

RE: the damage type.

 

Personally I think almost any damage type could work. Negative Energy, Toxic and Psi are all good options.

There's an argument though that there are very few Fire or Cold attacks in the game outside of the actual Fire or Ice sets, and breaking down a living being aligns with the concept of Fire in the sense that burning is a similar chemical breakdown process. 

 

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Two powers in Dark Melee do have similar characteristics to the proposed Atrophy set:

• Touch of Fear - uses a 1.17 second 'reach out' animation shared with Cold Domination's ice shields
• Midnight Grasp - uses the 2.07 second animation shared with Force Fields Deflection Shield

 

Buff powers generally have slowish animations in the +2 second range. Thus, the resulting attack would also be slow animating. To compensate, it would would need to deliver enough DPA to keep up with other sets. 

 

 

RE: Kinetic Melee. I feel like that is something else entirely. Kinetic Melee is a wonderfully strange set and I don't see it as similar conceptually to a touch-attack set.

Also, Siphon Life is a "reach out and pull" animation.

 

For kinetic melee, it was the first set I thought of when mentioning the whole concept and its -dmg secondary effect.  Not saying more than one set can't have -dmg but also the general concept that the attacks don't necessarily have to punch/touch the enemy to relay their effect.  

 

This touches on a concept I had for means of creating new sets that conform the the animation times of another set so that the animations of either set could be utilized for either set (ex: Battle Axe's 1-handed animation and a concept set that uses 2-handed animations so one could make a 2-handed Battle Axe user or a 1-handed version of the concept set)....the difference is kind of partial reverse though. You're looking to make a set that might borrow animations but different particles and effects.  For instance, I could see Kinetic Melee filling a lot of your needs animation wise, but the effects could be changed from disorient and knockdown to slow and...I dunno, sleep? (maintaining the -dmg).  May not fulfill the various "touch" motif but still conveys a similar concept...On the other hand, using the template of dark melee with maybe 2 or 3 animations changed (you might be able get away with just a version of Soul Drain but extended by 1 sec) and the rest just copying DM's animations with just the effects swapped.

 

Not sure where else to take the discussion, either the concept of making "borrowed sets", "booster sets" (pouring effort into new animations but with the prospect of conforming them to old sets so old sets can also benefit from new stuff) or the effects and powers an atrophy type draining set could have.  Personally speaking, I'd think the whole atrophy effect would work great as a support set, especially if you could drain a group or target and have some differentiating factors (like if they are at high health or what their rank is or maybe even enemy type/faction) that once debuffed, you can then apply that siphoned power to an individual on your team.

[oedipus_tex]

Nice ideas. Thanks for the commentary.

 

-Damage wouldn't be a crucial secondary effect for me, it just seemed like the most natural fit. A secondary effect that might be interesting is -Special (one power in Dominator Energy Assault has this). There are also some unusual effects you could deploy, like -Mezz Resist.

 

In terms of why I'd want this particular set, its mostly for theme. All of the existing Assault and Melee sets lean very heavily on punches and kicks. But it seems like there are a lot of characters in comics who rarely throw a punch but are still very dangerous. Some of this is covered in the Controller, Blaster, Defender etc archetypes, but most of those powers are designed for range. There isn't a gentle-but-deadly-up-close set. You could tweak Dark Melee to sort of be this, but Dark seems very heavily associated with its particle set. Maybe if it was available in the full color palette it could work.

 

I like your suggestion of an Atrophy support set. I can picture how it might be a second answer to Kinetics. But, I'd still like a Melee/Assault sets for use on armored characters and Dominators. 🙂

 

 

[Replacement]

Having a primary damage type like negative energy or cold, and then a shifting secondary damage type, could actually be part of the appeal.  E.g. t1 is negative and toxic, t2 is negative and fire.  t3 is negative and psychic, etc.  Alternatively, a Swap Ammo mechanic.

 

It feels like it would be in-theme with having a touch that no one can resist (even if it takes you a minute to find the right one), plus it would be helpful for creating, say, a cleric-type character reliant on assorted touch "spells."

 

[biostem]

An interesting concept would be a degree of customization of the set.  For instance, the default could be negative energy and toxic damage, which atrophies "the body" - so imparts a slow or similar affect.  The set could then have a toggle that switches out the toxic damage for psionic, to reflect you atrophying the mind - perhaps imparting a -tohit or other debuff to go with the mental degeneration you are causing.  Lastly, there could be a "spiritual decay" toggle that deals cold instead of the toxic or psionic, and imparts yet a different debuff...

Edited January 21, 2020 by biostem

[Replacement]

I don't know that it at all reflects what @oedipus_tex is after at this point, but an interesting way to make a really robust set without a lot of mechanics for the player to keep track of:

Each attack consists of damage type 1 and 2.   Say, negative and cold.

1 granted toggle changes type #1, a 2nd granted toggle changes type #2.  Simple, end-free toggles that serve as two separate binary switches.  

Net result: 4 damage profiles but only 2 toggles to juggle.  I would go a step further and have the toggles be granted by several powers each; not a dedicated Build Up replacement.  e.g. T1 and T3 give "mindwrack" toggle to swap to psy damage, and T2, T4, and T5 powers all give "caustic touch" to gain toxic damage.  Gaining multiples wouldn't help or hurt -- it's just multiple opportunities to grab the same free toggle to be a bit more build-tolerant.

[Leogunner]

On 1/20/2020 at 5:02 PM, Replacement said:

Having a primary damage type like negative energy or cold, and then a shifting secondary damage type, could actually be part of the appeal.  E.g. t1 is negative and toxic, t2 is negative and fire.  t3 is negative and psychic, etc.  Alternatively, a Swap Ammo mechanic.

 

It feels like it would be in-theme with having a touch that no one can resist (even if it takes you a minute to find the right one), plus it would be helpful for creating, say, a cleric-type character reliant on assorted touch "spells."

 

I remember a powerset suggestion I made on the old forums, Galactic Melee, that was kinda like a Mish mash of cosmic powers as a theme, like Meteor Kick which is a falling attack that does smashing damage and fire DoT, Comet punch which is cold, Void cut which is negative and lethal, etc... All attacks themed after something from space. 

 

Your post just reminded me of one of my crappy old ideas. 

[Replacement]

13 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Your post just reminded me of one of my crappy old ideas. 

I feel like i should be offended at this, lol (I'm not).

[oedipus_tex]

53 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I remember a powerset suggestion I made on the old forums, Galactic Melee, that was kinda like a Mish mash of cosmic powers as a theme, like Meteor Kick which is a falling attack that does smashing damage and fire DoT, Comet punch which is cold, Void cut which is negative and lethal, etc... All attacks themed after something from space. 

 

Your post just reminded me of one of my crappy old ideas. 

 

It may interest you to hear that during the time when City of Heroes was gone, I longed for it so much that I wrote a mod for the game Torchlight 2 that was highly inspired by some of my favorite powers in CoX, and some powers I always wanted to suggest. The mod added a character class called a "Theolentist" which a mix of Theology + Science, with each power blending concepts from religious belief and scientific theory. The class had three branches:

• Cosmic/Astrology - mostly featuring ranged builds
• Electric/Atomic - mostly featuring melee-ish builds
• Biology/Poison - mostly featuring pet builds

 

The Electric/Atomic branch was highly inspired by CoX Dominator gameplay, and featured in it a power called Magnetic Sermon that pulled enemies toward the caster, and then a power called Electron Halo that stunned enemies nearby, very similar to Arctic Air (with stuns instead of Confusion).

 

The Astrology branch may have been somewhat similar to your concept. I very very very very much want some "Cosmic" sets in CoX.

 

if I can reinstall Torchlight 2 and get some videos I can post here for inspiration. I love modding powers and hope to do it for CoX one day, if I can ever get the sourcecode to work. (Unfortunately I've trouble figuring out the install). Even if they never make it live I'd like to be able to show other dev teams what they could do and let them take code freely.

 

The mod eventually got downloaded about 30k times. There are a couple of player videos out there other players posted. Here's one showing an Astrology build:

 

 

 

And I think here a Biology build with a couple of Astrology powers. I'm particulary proud of the particle effects on the giant "planet-shaped" projectiles, and the power that summons the Anaerobic Acolytes (the little green jelly fish floating around the player, which are being summoned by quasi-blasts).

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

I feel like i should be offended at this, lol (I'm not).

Well I was talking about the mechanic of having a whole bunch of different damage types in one set.  I don't know how many set vary damage types beyond 3 (if we lump both smashing and lethal as just 1).  Not directed at your idea.

 

51 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

It may interest you to hear that during the time when City of Heroes was gone, I longed for it so much that I wrote a mod for the game Torchlight 2 that was highly inspired by some of my favorite powers in CoX, and some powers I always wanted to suggest. The mod added a character class called a "Theolentist" which a mix of Theology + Science, with each power blending concepts from religious belief and scientific theory. The class had three branches:

• Cosmic/Astrology - mostly featuring ranged builds
• Electric/Atomic - mostly featuring melee-ish builds
• Biology/Poison - mostly featuring pet builds

 

The Electric/Atomic branch was highly inspired by CoX Dominator gameplay, and featured in it a power called Magnetic Sermon that pulled enemies toward the caster, and then a power called Electron Halo that stunned enemies nearby, very similar to Arctic Air (with stuns instead of Confusion).

 

The Astrology branch may have been somewhat similar to your concept. I very very very very much want some "Cosmic" sets in CoX.

 

if I can reinstall Torchlight 2 and get some videos I can post here for inspiration. I love modding powers and hope to do it for CoX one day, if I can ever get the sourcecode to work. (Unfortunately I've trouble figuring out the install). Even if they never make it live I'd like to be able to show other dev teams what they could do and let them take code freely.

 

The mod eventually got downloaded about 30k times. There are a couple of player videos out there other players posted. Here's one showing an Astrology build:

 

 

And I think here a Biology build with a couple of Astrology powers. I'm particulary proud of the particle effects on the giant "planet-shaped" projectiles, and the power that summons the Anaerobic Acolytes (the little green jelly fish floating around the player, which are being summoned by quasi-blasts).

 

 

 

Very neat.  Also wouldn't mind seeing some religious type power effects for CoH too.  

 

I say make another thread write-up.

 

Also, I wanted to get into modding CoX too but just got sidelined by my new position's responsibilities, it's gonna take me a few months more to adjust enough to have any motivation.

[oedipus_tex]

Turned out I still had Torchlight 2 installed so I was able to grab a video of a Physics build. I'm headed way off topic but there might some ideas here that could work Atrophy Melee.

 

 

 

Been a long time since I played so I struggled with some of the fight mechanics.

 

The idea behind this set is that Polearms are trash in TL2, so I made this build all about them. The rules are you have some limited ability to conjure projectiles, and when one hits, it temporarily gives you a status (the little cross gear icon above the characters head) with 5 seconds to hit any enemy with a normal attack with your Polearm. If you do this you get an Absorb shield on you for a period of time. The lightning aura around the character works similar to Arctic Air (but  stun). The character has a power called Magnetic Sermon that attempts to pull enemies to her side, and debuffs their Resistance, plus pulling them into range of very high hitting close range attacks + the aura.

[VileTerror]

Cold / Toxic.

I mean, come on!  Forget about Dark; it's apparently "From the Nether" anyway.  It's its own thing.

 

But Cold and Toxic . . . that sounds like an appropriately atrophy'y combo!

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

Cold / Toxic.

I mean, come on!  Forget about Dark; it's apparently "From the Nether" anyway.  It's its own thing.

 

But Cold and Toxic . . . that sounds like an appropriately atrophy'y combo!

You mean besides Nictus? 😛

 

That being said, I wouldn't mind dark being used in other themes.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Tyrannical