Would /Traps make a good AV killer?

[VV]

So I was just browsing this powerset and I noticed that is just debuff after debuff. And mostly decent numbers, sometimes crazy numbers. I guess the main reason /Rad is considered better is because of the self-buffs, yeah?

 

If you were going with /Traps for an AV killer, what would you combine it with in your Primary and Epic?

[Coyote]

Ill/Traps is, IMO, the premier AV killer.

 

1: AV attacks? Powers? Abilities? Who cares? Do they 1-shot you? Who cares? Do they debuff you to 1 HP and THEN 1 shot you? Who cares? Do they turn you into a Rikti Monkey? Or do you do it yourself with Secondary Mutation? Who cares :p. Basically, it ignores almost everything that an AV can do other than leaving the area so that it loses aggro on the decoys.

 

2: AV defenses? Who cares? When their Regen is down to 0 permanently, it doesn't matter how much they regenerate or what their Resists are. They may go down SLOWLY (Madame of Mystery, it's not a mystery why you're so hated), but they're going down. Even Phasing won't help them greatly as the debuff will follow them into the phasing. The only thing they can do is heal (Siege, I hate you for that). And you're also putting out solid -Resist to help with the damage dealing. And you have an Immobilize which Illusion normally lacks, preventing Romunictus from spontaneously breaking out into a over-the-hills-and-far-away marathon.

 

There's nothing else that does the job as well on both sides of the ball. You do have a few very rare cases like Ill/Poison being able to neuter Siege's self-heal, but against almost all AVs, Ill/Traps is the go-to for all of your AV disposal needs.

 

As for Epic, the build wouldn't rely on the epics so it doesn't matter much. I like Ice with it because looking at the rest of the game, although you do have Caltrops and Trip Mine, more AoE is a good thing for Controllers, and you can stack Caltrops slotted for Slow with Ice Storm to get most of its damage. Plus, Poison Trap will provide an every-spawn Hold that can be used to Hold minions for Ice Storm while lasting long enough to drop Ice Storm and back up for Freeze Sneeze to get Containment, which is another thing that Illusion usually lacks. However, Mu is also a good Epic since Storm has Endurance problems, and Earth is an option since it has Fissure which stacks Stuns with Tornado and Thunderclap while getting Force Feedback to proc so you get Tornado/LS up faster. I tried Mace with Ill/Storm, and the Tarantula kept going into melee with AVs, at which point they said "ewww, spider" and squished it. Actually, I lie... they didn't even notice it, and still squished it accidentally.

 

So, there you go... Ill/Traps/Ice is my top pick overall for AV killing with a side of AoE, and //Mu for a bit more single-target damage add-on from the Guardian if you really REALLY want to concentrate on Pylon times 😛

[Coyote]

Oh, and the REAL reason why Rad is considered better is that Traps was not available on Live, and so it has a much longer track history and more players having tried it and recommending it. But statistically Traps is clearly ahead. Oh, and it also has better defensive options, so you worry less during the PA drop.

[Riverdusk]

5 hours ago, Coyote said:

Ill/Traps is, IMO, the premier AV killer.

 

 

QFT.  Only real advantage /rad has in that combo is the +rech from AM (big help for illusion).  I personally prefer rad a bit over traps for more general team gameplay and it just plays "smoother" to me while still being amazing at AV killing. 

 

But if you just want to be the best AV/GM killer you can be, ill/traps is hard to beat.  Another amazing one is ill/cold that I'd probably rank a bit above ill/rad for the task. But I'd still have to give the nod to ill/traps just because traps has the immobilize.  No worries about AV's running all over the place.

[VV]

LOL well dang, I was just guessing from what I read in Mids. Glad to hear I'm actually kinda smart.

[tjknight]

I leveled an Ill/Traps last weekend to 50. I enjoy playing it. Basically, drop pets to tank the EB/AV, spam your immobilize to keep 'em still, and make sure to keep placing the debuffs (Acid Mortar/Poison Trap). Then you got other powers (Trip Mine, Triage Beacon, etc..) to help with additional buffs and DPS. I will agree that Ill/Rad is more mobile (also leveled one of those the week prior), but if  you're on a fast moving team just concentrate on keeping Phantom Army, Acid Mortar, and Force Field Generator going.  That and using your CC abilities (Spectral Terror, Blind, Caltrops, and Flash) should keep you plenty busy. 

 

Additionally, the new location commands are game changers for both Traps and Illusion. I have all my placement powers bound to be able to drop on targets. It's really helpful. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by tjknight

[Troo]

yes

[Frosticus]

ill/traps is a top tier big game hunter. There isnt much it cant kill. 

 

In teams it is one of the best alpha breakers that a squishy can do. PA and seeker drones both soak alphas very well. Just get out in front of everyone and set the pace. It is a bit non traditional tactics but works well. 

[Razia]

Ill combined with /Rad, /Dark, /Traps, /Cold all will be AV Killers. Heck my Plant/Dark is an AV Killer.

[oedipus_tex]

22 hours ago, Coyote said:

Oh, and the REAL reason why Rad is considered better is that Traps was not available on Live, and so it has a much longer track history and more players having tried it and recommending it. But statistically Traps is clearly ahead. Oh, and it also has better defensive options, so you worry less during the PA drop.

 

This.

 

Traps was never enabled for Controllers because the developers at the time believed it would be too good an AV killer, and they marginally cared about such things at the time. 

 

Traps has a boat loads of debuffs, the highest base Defense of any Controller secondary barring Power Boosted Farsight/Fade, a single target immobilize, and mezz protection to Hold and Stun. It is built to flatten AVs. Paired with Illusion, the ultimate AV tanker set, and you've got a very strong AV slayer.

 

[Razia]

Still looking at the Flavor of the Months Thread it's the least played secondary for Controllers.

[VV]

23 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Just get out in front of everyone and set the pace. It is a bit non traditional tactics but works well. 

This has been tradition for me on Controllers since back in Live.

 

11 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Traps was never enabled for Controllers because the developers at the time believed it would be too good an AV killer,

LOL turns out they were right, eh?

 

9 hours ago, Razia said:

Still looking at the Flavor of the Months Thread it's the least played secondary for Controllers.

For me, this is as good a reason as any to play a powerset

[roleki]

I can't find any numbers on Traps; are its debuffs really that much better than /Dark?  Because in my experience, Ill/Dark just melts AVs if the pilot knows what the buttons actually DO.

[Frosticus]

On 2/1/2020 at 8:45 PM, VV said:

This has been tradition for me on Controllers since back in Live.

Perhaps, but phantom army and seeker drones allow even a low level controller to break alphas with near impunity by rotating them. 

 

It loses some value over time as others catch up in that ability. But things like arachnos alphas can always give pause. 

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, roleki said:

I can't find any numbers on Traps; are its debuffs really that much better than /Dark?  Because in my experience, Ill/Dark just melts AVs if the pilot knows what the buttons actually DO.

 

Against AVs, with Illusion as the primary, you don't really need much defensive ability. So the great defensive buffs/debuffs of Dark are mostly wasted. Force Field Generator plus an epic armor is usually enough to survive the 1 shot an AV may take between PA summons, so it's all about offensive debuffs. Frankly, given Dark's defensive abilities, I would always suggest it NOT paired with Illusion just because it seems better to put Illusion with a weaker defensive secondary, and save Dark to use with combination where you actually face incoming damage, like Fire/Dark.

 

On -Resist, they are pretty comparable. I think Dark can stack better, but Traps can put nice -Res procs in Acid Mortar, so I think Traps ends up ahead.

 

On -Regen, there's no comparison. Dark puts out an average of about 500% debuff, varying based on whether Howling Twilight is up or not, while Traps puts out a permanent 1000% debuff (or more, since you can stack Poison Gas Traps). Permanent. 1000. You need 667% to shut down an AV's Regen if it doesn't have increased Regeneration, and with a level shift, a 54 AV is going to suffer 70% of the debuff, or a bit more than is needed to completely shut its regeneration down. No other set can do that.

[siolfir]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:54 PM, Coyote said:

Oh, and the REAL reason why Rad is considered better is that Traps was not available on Live, and so it has a much longer track history and more players having tried it and recommending it.

Well, and the now-fixed bug in Lingering Radiation that made the -regen unresistable while other sources were resisted to 15% of their effect after the purple patch.

 

If you really need to stack -regen you could always use EMP (-1000%) on a /Rad also - and yes, I am aware that Traps can beat that with more than one Poison Trap (and while Poison Trap was bugged, could beat that with one as long as there were more mobs nearby). Mostly, though, it's about portability and speed of application if you team: Traps can do the most with just a little time to set up and has an answer for almost everything, but most teams aren't going to wait while you put a Poison Trap and couple of Acid Mortars down and they don't want +regen from Triage Beacon, they want a heal. None of that matters when you're soloing, and Traps is an incredible set even with the "pace of play on teams" limitation (I ran it to 50 with Bots/ and Thugs/ MMs and a DP/ Corruptor).

Edited February 5, 2020 by siolfir

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

Against AVs, with Illusion as the primary, you don't really need much defensive ability. So the great defensive buffs/debuffs of Dark are mostly wasted. Force Field Generator plus an epic armor is usually enough to survive the 1 shot an AV may take between PA summons, so it's all about offensive debuffs. Frankly, given Dark's defensive abilities, I would always suggest it NOT paired with Illusion just because it seems better to put Illusion with a weaker defensive secondary, and save Dark to use with combination where you actually face incoming damage, like Fire/Dark.

 

 

Honestly you could play illusion with no secondary at all and it'd be pretty good.  It is what makes me wish it was available for dominators. You wouldn't have a lot that would be affected by dom, but it might be fun to combine it with an assault secondary.

[Coyote]

It's not a great CONTROL set, but it's a great power set. I think it would work nicely for a Dominator who builds up their personal defenses, as there wouldn't be that much controlling, but a good amount of debuffing and the decoys would grab some of the incoming attacks. So set up some defenses, make sure you're not in melee with a +4 Boss without having it Held, and it could work very well.

 

Now, as the main control character for a team, Illusion's not that great. But it solos great, and it can help teams since even a low-control Control set is still pretty good controlling.

[VV]

15 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Honestly you could play illusion with no secondary at all and it'd be pretty good.  It is what makes me wish it was available for dominators. You wouldn't have a lot that would be affected by dom, but it might be fun to combine it with an assault secondary.

I'm pretty sure this is why it is not available for Doms. Would be pretty OP to carry around your own tank and be your own blaster, as well. Though other sets can kind of do that, Ill/ is definitely the best at it.

[VV]

The funniest part about this whole thread is that I MEANT to ask about /Poison (because I was considering an ironic Plant/Poison build), but my stupid ADHD brain typed /Traps for some reason. I wasn't even thinking about traps. But, turns out that was the right question to ask, after all!

[Frosticus]

you could check out my thread on plant/poison from a couple months ago. 

I wouldnt say it is fantastic vs AVs, but it excels at aoe damage and is one of the fastest team kill speed boosters you can make with regard to clearing content. 

[meech]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:54 PM, Coyote said:

Oh, and the REAL reason why Rad is considered better is that Traps was not available on Live, and so it has a much longer track history and more players having tried it and recommending it. But statistically Traps is clearly ahead. Oh, and it also has better defensive options, so you worry less during the PA drop.

I was thinking of rolling an ill/rad as my next toon but I think you guys have convinced me to go with ill/traps! Pretty unfamiliar with controllers (newbie!!) so Im not sure what powers are good for ill or traps. Any one have any builds/guides/info they would want to share?