Snarky Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 okay. I studied some mathematics once. notice I used the big drawn out word. someone buys something at one price. relists the same object at a higher price. that (stay with me, it's been a long few paragraphs I know) INFLATES the price of the something. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Saikochoro said: Very true. If I could buy a Taurus and use converter shenanigans to get a Python, then I wouldn’t be playing games I’d be on the range. We need an Alchemy powerset! Just now, Saikochoro said: Still I do think that the market value is less than seeded value for the most part. But it has been going up, as the topic of this thread proves, so maybe the seeded value will become the actual market value. I think we're likely trending that way as time goes on simply because of inflation and what I assume is a general decrease in players as time goes on. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Snarky said: okay. I studied some mathematics once. notice I used the big drawn out word. someone buys something at one price. relists the same object at a higher price. that (stay with me, it's been a long few paragraphs I know) INFLATES the price of the something. But if they want to sell it, they have to price it lower than the going rate, which decreases the average price. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said: Very well spoken, and great analysis. i would like to point out that a difference in our game v. your example is that in game, there is either directly or indirectly an infinite amount of goods. Want yellow salvage? You can play or farm for drops, exchange AE tickets. Too much work? There are 10mm of them for sale. Too expensive? Then you’re in a pickle and somethings got to give. Want LOTG 7.5%? Plenty on the market. Too expensive? Buy a Serendipity and convert. Still too expensive? Buy or craft any lvl 25+ enhancement and convert. Too much work? Another pickle. This game has limitless supply. Except maybe Hammy is. Very true. I was just pointing out the flipping isnt 100% evil even if it looks so on the surface. But you are right, with converters, tickets, and whatnot normal economics and market functions go out the window. Still I do think one constant remains. Time. People are just willing to pay for time. Even with all other ways of getting things, people value time. Hence, in almost all cases people are willing to pay more to have it now. Even when there are limitless resources. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obus Form Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, MTeague said: As long as it's an actual player created story with an actual plot, and not "look more mobs that only do fire damage!" If I could ask for ANY ONE change to AE search console, it would be the ability to find mission that do NOT contain the word "Farm" in either the title or the description. @MTeague As you have indicated your slight desire against farming, we of the UFC find your stance disturbing! For the sake of Forumnal peace, we've kept your dealings private and ask you to cease and desist the sharing of any notion that is, in way shape or form, against the direct enjoyment, condoning, or notion of farming or farm related activities including AE maps, cheap IOs, cheap mats, and altruism through farming. Please consider this your final warning. Sincerely, The UFC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutal Justice Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: Yes, that's not something any of us have the actual data to prove, and you know it. Also the point was about saving time and still getting items for a reasonable price, again you know that. Context is a thing. Do I need to make a quote for you? Please do. You responded to his response to me talking about how flippers artificially inflate prices. Therefore the context in which your response exists is artificial prices are caused by flippers. We don’t have a screenshot of the person’s computer that is manipulating the price of yellow salvage but we can sure see the 30k bids and rising prices that came out of nowhere. It may be an extreme case of buy low sell high, but it is nonetheless evidence of the effects flippers have on prices. 1 Guardian survivor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTeague Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Obus Form said: @MTeague As you have indicated your slight desire against farming, we of the UFC find your stance disturbing! For the sake of Forumnal peace, we've kept your dealings private and ask you to cease and desist the sharing of any notion that is, in way shape or form, against the direct enjoyment, condoning, or notion of farming or farm related activities including AE maps, cheap IOs, cheap mats, and altruism through farming. Please consider this your final warning. Sincerely, The UFC Lol. Please don't misunderstand. I have zero bones against farming in principle. I will personally not partake in the activity, but farming-for-drops has existed in EVERY multiplayer game I have ever played, bar none, and I would not expect CoH to be any exception to that. My only frustration is it feels like 97% of AE maps are fire farms, and I have to search long and hard to find a few here and there that are not. I only want a better search filter option. If you want to go nuts farming every waking hour, knock yourself out. Cheers. 2 Roster: MTeague's characters: The Good, The Bad, and The Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said: Please do. You responded to his response to me talking about how flippers artificially inflate prices. Therefore the context in which your response exists is artificial prices are caused by flippers. We don’t have a screenshot of the person’s computer that is manipulating the price of yellow salvage but we can sure see the 30k bids and rising prices that came out of nowhere. It may be an extreme case of buy low sell high, but it is nonetheless evidence of the effects flippers have on prices. You still don't know that, you are guessing because it fits your narrative and perceptions. It very well could be a bug in drops, less casual players generating supply while more dedicated players keep demand about the same, or whatever other reason people want to give and don't have any actual evidence to prove. To demonstrate how seriously I take your concerns and complaints, I would like to introduce you to Bung, my Dark/Earth Dominator that now owns all Serendipity enhancements on the market. I'll gladly sell them back to you! Edited March 12, 2020 by MunkiLord 1 The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTeague Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said: Please do. You responded to his response to me talking about how flippers artificially inflate prices. Therefore the context in which your response exists is artificial prices are caused by flippers. We don’t have a screenshot of the person’s computer that is manipulating the price of yellow salvage but we can sure see the 30k bids and rising prices that came out of nowhere. It may be an extreme case of buy low sell high, but it is nonetheless evidence of the effects flippers have on prices. Honestly I find it entirely plausible that it's just a bunch of people playing Converter Roulette. I did not know the seeded price was 100,000. I do know that I play converter roulette a fair amount, and I do know that I and others have pointed it out as an option to some new folks who were aghast at how much IO sets cost, or who wondered how they would ever get enough merits to fully kit out a character. 1 Roster: MTeague's characters: The Good, The Bad, and The Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutal Justice Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said: Very well spoken, and great analysis. i would like to point out that a difference in our game v. your example is that in game, there is either directly or indirectly an infinite amount of goods. Want yellow salvage? You can play or farm for drops, exchange AE tickets. Too much work? There are 10mm of them for sale. Too expensive? Then you’re in a pickle and somethings got to give. Want LOTG 7.5%? Plenty on the market. Too expensive? Buy a Serendipity and convert. Still too expensive? Buy or craft any lvl 25+ enhancement and convert. Too much work? Another pickle. This game has limitless supply. Except maybe Hammy is. This is a great example of people putting in more work and being rewarded for their work. This is what a person who does converting does. Similar to a farmer, just, instead of creating supply, shifting supply. A person who simply buys low and sells high, the same enhancement, is like a stock market trader. They don’t supply or perform a service. They simply get rich and drive up markets. 1 Guardian survivor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: But if they want to sell it, they have to price it lower than the going rate, which decreases the average price. They ‘have to’? Is this hard coded or something? Because if there are 3 things listed. They buy the 3 things and lrelist them, they are allowed to relist them at a higher price? You see where this is going? If only i had a diagram. Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obus Form Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, Snarky said: okay. I studied some mathematics once. notice I used the big drawn out word. someone buys something at one price. relists the same object at a higher price. that (stay with me, it's been a long few paragraphs I know) INFLATES the price of the something. Dear @Snarky , Please do not email or PM the UFC Board about your application to join the UFC. Although we cannot speak on the behalf of the Board of Admission, if you were to join the UFC, your clear lack of education in arithmetic, economics, and English would jeopardize our reputation of ni miserly elitism. Should you find it suitable, the AFK group (AFK Farmers Kpop group) is actively seeking farming members to join in their...altruism. Again we wish you the best of luck in your application and your journey into becoming a COH Influencer! With Regret, UFC Board 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obus Form Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, MTeague said: Lol. Please don't misunderstand. I have zero bones against farming in principle. I will personally not partake in the activity, but farming-for-drops has existed in EVERY multiplayer game I have ever played, bar none, and I would not expect CoH to be any exception to that. My only frustration is it feels like 97% of AE maps are fire farms, and I have to search long and hard to find a few here and there that are not. I only want a better search filter option. If you want to go nuts farming every waking hour, knock yourself out. Cheers. Haha I'm just messing. I appreciate your thoughts and examples. I appreciate everyones thoughts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Snarky said: They ‘have to’? Is this hard coded or something? Because if there are 3 things listed. They buy the 3 things and lrelist them, they are allowed to relist them at a higher price? You see where this is going? If only i had a diagram. Sigh Yes, if you make up artificial limitations on supply to boost your point, I do see where you are going. But that's not the way it works in the game. Let's see how many of those Serendipity IOs I just bought that I can make a profit on. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: You still don't know that, you are guessing because it fits your narrative and perceptions. It very well could be a bug in drops, less casual players generating supply while more dedicated players keep demand about the same, or whatever other reason people want to give and don't have any actual evidence to prove. To demonstrate how seriously I take your concerns and complaints, I would like to introduce you to Bung, my Dark/Earth Dominator that now owns all Serendipity enhancements on the market. I'll gladly sell them back to you! My goodness that is going to net you a huge loss. Wish I had that sort of inf to be so philanthropic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Saikochoro said: My goodness that is going to net you a huge loss. Wish I had that sort of inf to be so philanthropic. 1,092,385,071 influence to be exact. I'll share if you want some, no joking. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obus Form Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, MunkiLord said: 1,092,385,071 influence to be exact. I'll share if you want some, no joking. Oh no you don't! My altruistic e-peen is bigger than yours! I challenge you! TO! A NICE OFF!!!! "Nice off! Nice off!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Obus Form said: Oh no you don't! My altruistic e-peen is bigger than yours! I challenge you! TO! A NICE OFF!!!! "Nice off! Nice off!" edit: Who wants influence? Post your global and I'll randomly send it to people for my own amusement. Edited March 12, 2020 by MunkiLord 1 The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: Yes, if you make up artificial limitations on supply to boost your point, I do see where you are going. But that's not the way it works in the game. Let's see how many of those Serendipity IOs I just bought that I can make a profit on. If there is an infinite supply selling at, say 100, I would agree. you could not sell at 101. ever. that is not the case however. We both know this. Everyone on the thread knows this. The supply is not extremely limited (usually, I can point out various ATOs and Purps that are) but neither are they unlimited. It is in the niches that flippers make their returns. Everyone knows this. Seriously not breaking any new ground here. zero creativity. There are freaking doctoral theses and paperback stock trading, and reddit threads on it. No money was ever lost on the stock market. Good thing to keep in mind on a week like this. Not a dime was ever lost. It just changed hands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTeague Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Saikochoro said: My goodness that is going to net you a huge loss. Wish I had that sort of inf to be so philanthropic. Well, influence only matters until your character is fully kitted out with the spec you want. After that.... um... well.... you could do a second build... but very few of my characters would change any powers or slotting in a second build .... the widow maybe to do both night widow and fortunata but most.... nope. And then Influence is just there to sugar daddy the NEXT alt. and the next after that. Once all the alts you care to create are taken care of, I could see influence start to become more "ya ya whatever, here take some". I mean, I have 30 alts, and I doubt they'll be fully IO'd out until June 2021, because I go at a casual pace. (well, I call it casual anyway....). But I'm probably never going to have 200+ alts. I'll still play the game with my squad of 30, but I can see there will be a point, someday (over the rainbow....), when I literally have very little use for influence. Roster: MTeague's characters: The Good, The Bad, and The Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obus Form Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, MunkiLord said: You win. The UFC just threatened to kick me out for lacking ni stinginess 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomo Kimyata Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: 1,092,385,071 influence to be exact. I'll share if you want some, no joking. Are your bids still up? I'm sure I could track down a few hundred of these. Who run Bartertown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Snarky said: If there is an infinite supply selling at, say 100, I would agree. you could not sell at 101. ever. that is not the case however. We both know this. Everyone on the thread knows this. The supply is not extremely limited (usually, I can point out various ATOs and Purps that are) but neither are they unlimited. It is in the niches that flippers make their returns. Everyone knows this. Seriously not breaking any new ground here. zero creativity. There are freaking doctoral theses and paperback stock trading, and reddit threads on it. No money was ever lost on the stock market. Good thing to keep in mind on a week like this. Not a dime was ever lost. It just changed hands. The only thing keeping supply from being literally unlimited, is people's willingness to craft, convert, or buy it with merits. That is the only limit. Yes at any given time the number for sale might be zero or three, but that is an issue easily solved. 1 1 The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, MunkiLord said: 1,092,385,071 influence to be exact. I'll share if you want some, no joking. You don’t know how tempted I am by this haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunkiLord Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, Yomo Kimyata said: Are your bids still up? I'm sure I could track down a few hundred of these. Some are, yes. But a lot filled immediately. I literally bought every single one. The Trevor Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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