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Savage Melee thoughts


Razor Cure

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So my first toon when I got back was a sm/bio scrapper..cause they were both new sets. I got him to 28 and sheleved him for a bit, only recently breaking him back out. Now I am 38 and just..curious what people think of the set. Savage Melee that is. Bio I am all good with, and any interactiosn between the two.

I have also looked at Frosticus' savage guides and threads.

 

My thoughts so far..

For a start..the Blood Frenzy mechanic. Its nice, and can certainly notice the end reduction and rech. What I dont like is the Exhaustion thing. Other 'gimmick' sets like StJ and Staff have similar stacking buffs, which then get used via your finisher type powers. Which is all good. But savage..you get penalised for waiting to use powers at the 'best' time? I guess Psi melee is the only set thats similar, and the Insight buff was just damage, so you dont notice a sudden lack of +rech and end red.

 

Onto the attacks..

They all look really cool. The power info is utterly shite, as others have pointed out. The actual damage values NEED to be shown in the description and just in the enhancement slotting screen.

 

Mostly, I like the attacks, the odd ones out are Hemorrhage and Savage Leap.

Hem just feels...odd? I like it, but I feel if the damage was more front loaded it would be much more useful. Especially since the set does NOT have a 'proper' superior/extreme damage attack (and most other sets have at least 1, if not 1 of each)> I know SL IS superior but..

Savage Leap. Cool and all. But do I really have to be at max range (range indicator PLEASE) for it to actually DO anything? It just seems so weak unless I make sure I am at teh range limit, and even then..the up front damage just isnt there for a supposed superior attack. And the superior portion is meant to be the first whack, from the power info.

 

Now I know other threads talk about making Hem and SavL proc monsters, and then they are super awesome sauce. But...if a power needs a load of procs to actuallly be decent (we are talking about the last 2 attacks in teh set..usually the best, or very good at least)..I think it is a bit of a fail.

 

So basically..is it worth using both powers without a stack of procs? Is it worth taking Hem at all, or using it with less than 5 stacks?

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Curious to hear what others have to say about Hem and Leap.  My Sav/Will Brute is an absolute riot to play but haven't leveled to those powers yet.  I, personally, very much enjoy teleportAoEs, so I'll definitely be taking Leap.  Spring Attack is fun and all, but doesn't seem to do much damage unless I'm at full Fury (ymmv, might be better on a scrappy), so I might respec out of it later since Savage Leap looks to have a decent recharge time negating the need for two similar powers.  Of course fun factor might override that, and on the Brute version another AoE is always welcome.

 

As far as Exhaustion, I've taken letting BF stack to full, dropping RF, then hitting Blood Thirst to get the stacks of Blood Fury back immediately.  Sort of opposite of Build Up.  This helps keep the end discount and +rech moving along.   Rending Flurry's radius is positively massive when the stacks are full.

 

If you're habitually using Blood Thirst like a traditional Build Up, then I'd suggest trying it immediately after spending the BF Stacks and see if that works out better.

 

Agreed that the set lacks a single "marquee" hard-hitting attack, but play-style wise it seems so far to be about rapid damage than damage all at once.  In that respect, not sure it needs one.

Edited by InvaderStych
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I'm a big fan of savage melee for stalkers.

It addresses some of your concerns in that assassin strike gives you that big meaty attack. Hemorrhage performs very well for them.

 

That said, I'm sure the scrapper can do good things too as the main aspect of savage is mobility and aoe damage. 

 

Savage leap really does need procs. I'd still use it without but it would primarily be for the movement, so I'd max out it's recharge if that were the case, maybe put a universal chance to knockdown IO in it? 

 

But really, it does so well with damage procs and really makes the set shine for aoe. procs also make it still excel from point blank where it normally doesnt do well. 

 

Finally, look to your epic snipes. They can provide a big upfront and fast shot of damage that the set needs. 

 

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The animations are gorgeous. The damage just 'feels' subpar though spreadsheets disagree. The problem lays in the DoTs and how we use both T1 and T2 in the attack chain. Obviously something with those is not meant to hit hard.

 

There is no satisfying crunch when hitting enemies and CoH is not a DPS game. We don't hit enemies for a minute where DoT based classes a la WoW Warlock would shine. We hit them for 4-5 seconds and thus in 4-5 seconds we want dividends.

 

Claws, for example, is also a set who is light in crunch, but not needing to account for DoTs makes all its damage upfront.

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I have a savage brute and I personally like Hem.  But I also tend to solo and fight at a level where fights take longer so the dots do work.  It is true that it lacks crunch though.  I also use SL mostly as movement with some procs in it.  Functionally a power should not need procs to be good but SL does. 😕

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20 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

If you're habitually using Blood Thirst like a traditional Build Up, then I'd suggest trying it immediately after spending the BF Stacks and see if that works out better

that is a neat idea! Will totally try it out!

 

18 hours ago, Frosticus said:

But really, it does so well with damage procs and really makes the set shine for aoe. procs also make it still excel from point blank where it normally doesnt do well. 

Really just talking to you in general Frosti. I went to test last night and played with a savage/bio stalker, using some of your slotting on the savage/shield. Hem was hitting an even lvl Lt for..750 damage, around about.That is all procced out. I just cant help but feeling its somehow..cheating. And bullshit. Almost NO other attack in the game will hit a Lt for that much, barring maybe blaster snipes with aim/bu, built up crushing impact, etc.

I still stand by the statement that if an attack NEEDS to be slotted in such an unconventional way (at least for me) to move from average up to stupidly awesome..something is just wrong.

Same for Savage Leap. Not being great at point blank range..for a PBAoe? Wtf is that?

Also, there were a few threads about proc changes recently, but I cant recall if they were in Test forums or just suggestions. Do you think any changes will hit procs?

 

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57 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

that is a neat idea! Will totally try it out!

 

 

Let us know how it goes.  Now that I have Hemorrhage (thus 2 attacks that spend BF) it's not as straight-forward, but still works well for me so far.

 

Also, yeah, unslotted Hemorrhage is fairly lack-luster.  I wonder if flipping the BF effect so that it boosts up-front damage instead of the DoT would be a viable change?

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You see a mousetrap? I see free cheese and a f$%^ing challenge.

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4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

that is a neat idea! Will totally try it out!

 

Really just talking to you in general Frosti. I went to test last night and played with a savage/bio stalker, using some of your slotting on the savage/shield. Hem was hitting an even lvl Lt for..750 damage, around about.That is all procced out. I just cant help but feeling its somehow..cheating. And bullshit. Almost NO other attack in the game will hit a Lt for that much, barring maybe blaster snipes with aim/bu, built up crushing impact, etc.

I still stand by the statement that if an attack NEEDS to be slotted in such an unconventional way (at least for me) to move from average up to stupidly awesome..something is just wrong.

Same for Savage Leap. Not being great at point blank range..for a PBAoe? Wtf is that?

Also, there were a few threads about proc changes recently, but I cant recall if they were in Test forums or just suggestions. Do you think any changes will hit procs?

 

I dunno, I mean you give up a lot for procs in a power, namely set bonuses and the ability to cycle the power way faster.

 

heavy proc builds dont tend to do much more dps (if any) than a high recharge, optimized attack chain build But they do offer a lot of burst damage at the cost of giving up most set bonuses. 

 

I dont know what changes are in store for procs. They have to remain good enough to slot, or else why even have them in the game? Right now they are probably a bit too good given how much global recharge we can easily get. But looking at how people react to any nerf it may not be an ants nest that cpt powerhouse is keen to kick. 

 

savage leap: it isnt a fantastic damage power. It is ok at max range, as that is its gimmick, but it is a great movement power. 

 

 

Edited by Frosticus
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Also..WHY oh why does Build Up not give 5 stacks of BF? The same happens in stalker Street Justice. Here, you get 3 from the AS, meaning you need another 2 attacks at least to get to 5, and use Rending/Hem with % stacks AND BU. Which is pretty unlikely. At least at a lower level.

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Macho.gif

Proc out leap get 2 for 1 special compared to lightning rod. I could just be crazy I don't know.

 

On a side not some power combos proc out better some work better with sets and visa versa. For example everyone hates Duel Pistol for bad damage but if you proc it out they become above average. Some powers just proc out better.

Edited by Ironscarlet
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7 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Also..WHY oh why does Build Up not give 5 stacks of BF? The same happens in stalker Street Justice. Here, you get 3 from the AS, meaning you need another 2 attacks at least to get to 5, and use Rending/Hem with % stacks AND BU. Which is pretty unlikely. At least at a lower level.

 

I assume you're talking about the Stalker version of Savage?  Better question might be why do stalkers have Build Up instead of Blood Thirst as on the Scrapper and Brute versions of the set.

You see a mousetrap? I see free cheese and a f$%^ing challenge.

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I play a Savage/Fire Brute farmer  - which does decently well for what I need it do it do, but take that into note as I talk about what I like and dislike with the set...

 

I don't have Hemorrhage, as it isn't conducive to my farming - but I liked it on my Stalker, so there's that. 

 

That being said, as a Brute, I feel the primary is really there to get the last ticks on the AoE after Burn, which is pretty depressing.  Savage leap isn't as bad as people originally led me to believe, but it  lacks the oomph you feel from like, Lightning Rod... in fact, that's my biggest complain about the set: the SOUND is incredibly lacking. 

 

The animations are cool, the graphics are nice... but the sounds... well, Savage Leap reminds me of Meg's finger nails from Family Guy when she got super powers in terms of the sound it makes, and the slashes ALWAYS sound like you're whiffing, even when not... I would revisit these if I were responsible for them. It has a big impact on the way powers feel (I think that's why Electricity feels so good despite being pretty boring overall).

 

 

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7 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

I assume you're talking about the Stalker version of Savage?  Better question might be why do stalkers have Build Up instead of Blood Thirst as on the Scrapper and Brute versions of the set.

Yeah thats what I mean. I assume it is because stalkers are meant to be a 'burst' damage AT..and thus normal BU comes into savage, staff and street. But it also means those sets get screwed (SM and StJ) get screwed out of the boost up/big attack instant combo that the other versions can do.

 

6 hours ago, seresibyl2 said:

lacks the oomph you feel from like, Lightning Rod

Agreed. I have made a elec stalker and brute..and LR just kicks butt. Like as soon as you get it, let alone once slotted. Still not sure how mobs dont notice a lightning strike either..

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On 3/25/2020 at 2:14 PM, Frosticus said:

 

savage leap: it isnt a fantastic damage power. It is ok at max range, as that is its gimmick, but it is a great movement power. 

Hey Frosti? Does the proc potential go down, when said powers are slotted for Rech? Like would an alpha giving my rech, make them fire less often?

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4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Hey Frosti? Does the proc potential go down, when said powers are slotted for Rech? Like would an alpha giving my rech, make them fire less often?

Yes, but it may still be worth it if you are benefitting from that +rech in other meaningful ways.

 

Out of the box savage leap has ~89% proc chance using 3.5ppm procs. So any recharge slotting (alpha) will lower that. 

 

However if you needed the alpha to ensure you had a good attack chain or to get perma hasten if those were goals you seek, then that may be a worthwhile tradeoff. 

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