Should I bother with Tough/Weave?

[Draugrok]

I'm used to trying to cap S/L res and maybe ranged defense, but is it necessary on an MM?  Would I be better off investing in other powers for additional damage/support?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Heraclea]

I generally only take them on melees.  Does having them affect pets at all?

[Dixa]

maybe. weave is a good spot for another lotg or defensive set. tough is a good spot for the resist based unique io's. 

 

but honestly the only time I die is when the pets die. 

[Redlynne]

28 minutes ago, Dixa said:

tough is a good spot for the resist based unique io's.

So is Rune of Protection ...

 

/em significant look

[Draugrok]

16 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

So is Rune of Protection ...

 

/em significant look

Thanks everyone for input, think I'll play around without the fighting pool and see what happens 🙂

[Seigmoraig]

I have yet to play a character of any AT that doesn't have tough and weave

[tidge]

19 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

I have yet to play a character of any AT that doesn't have tough and weave

I will use the fighting pool to mule IOs if I don't have other power choices. I harbor a secret dirty desire that all characters could get an inherent power  Toughness-lite (with a very small S/L resistance) that could be used to mule Resistance IOs. Defense already has too many mules IMO!

 

That being written, I have several toons where I don't take the Fighting pool because it is unnecessary. For example: Fortunatas can already mule all the Resist IOs and can far exceed (positional) Defense soft caps without worrying about extra Defense from Weave.

 

For Masterminds: if the desire is for a Tankermind, you probably want to consider how much extra defenses you can get from slotting of Tough & Weave. The pets themselves will act as a sink for distributed damage, so damage resistance (especially when it is only Smashing/Lethal) is deprioritized. Boosting your Defenses is much more important if you want to Tankermind.

[Seigmoraig]

11 minutes ago, tidge said:

For example: Fortunatas can already mule all the Resist IOs and can far exceed (positional) Defense soft caps without worrying about extra Defense from Weave.

You're right, my Fortunata doesn't have fighting pool, such a dirty fibber I am

 

Quote

Boosting your Defenses is much more important if you want to Tankermin

Weave give a decent chunk of +Def all and you can 4 slot your boxing/kick and drop in a 4pcs of Kinetic Combat for some extra juicy set bonuses

Edited April 27, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[tidge]

I took a look at my lvl 50 Mastermind (Bots/Traps) which is a concept character but slotted as a sort of Tankermind (keep reading).

 

On that toon I took Tough/Weave as well as Mace Mastery (6-slotted with Reactive Defenses). Force Field Generator is 3-slotted (for Defense, doing almost all of the work) and I have Maneuvers (lvl 24) acting as a mule for Shield Wall. Tough is an IO mule (5-slotted) and Weave only has 2 slots.

 

My oddball-Tankermind approach: Rather than using the Presence pool for Provoke, after lvl 30 I have Photon Grenade, Pulse Rifle Burst and Mace Beam Volley slotted for Knockdown and -Res (the Bots have KB-KD as well) to keep enemies in place for the pet attacks. I spam the attacks to try to keep aggro.

 

One of the fun things about Masterminds is that they have a lot of 'skippable powers' (primary attacks) so experimenting with different Power pools is wide open to them.

[Papaschtroumpf]

caveat: I'm new to MMs, fighting doesn't benefit pets, so I can see taking it if you plan to draw aggro to you, whether with Provoke or some other means.

My current Bots/EA has softcapped ranged and AoE, I just got provoke to give it a try for that purpose.

EDIT: I meant to add, keeping aggro with provoke is a lot of work! I'm not in love with the practicality of the concept so far,, I do like jumping in and taking alpha for the bots

Edited April 27, 2020 by Papaschtroumpf

[Lost Deep]

My take on it is that if you're in the fighting set anyway, take tough/weave. I won't espouse them for every archetype out there, but if you're in the fighting pool you either A. want the extra melee options and some melee power, in which case you'll be closer to the combat than planned so take tough/weave, or B. you specifically want Tough/Weave for the durability and getting a melee attack is a bonus. The only situation I can think of where you want extra melee power but don't need extra durability is Sentinel. 

 

I actually have a fighting set mastermind, and it's startlingly effective. Sure, I can't really throw down with melee-focused bosses, but those three melee attacks add up in short order. If you're trying to fake an assault leader like I am, tough and weave are incredibly useful and contribute a LOT to survivability. I hope that more origin pools come out soon so I can use their ranged attacks, too.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lost Deep
typo

[MTeague]

For my "main" characters

• Spines/Regen stalker has Tough, but so far not Weave, don't feel the need.  
• Mind/Kin controller doesn't have fighting pool at all.  
• Fire/Fire sent has Tough, doesn't yet have Weave, probably will by 50 though.  Also has Manuevers, Tactics, and Assault.
• Claws/SR scrapper has Tough, doesn't yet have Weave, probably will by 50 though.
• Invuln/SS Tank doesn't have the fighting pool at all.  Does have Manuvers and Tactics though.
• Plant / Psi Dom doesn't have the fighting pool at all, never felt the need.  has the 3% defense IO's in Mind Over Body (epic pool). 
• Storm / Sonic defender doesn't have the fighting pool at all.  unlikely to touch it., but will does have Manuevers and Tactics.
• Beast / Empath MM has Boxing, Kick and Crosspunch to melee right alongside her pets,  Might take Tough/Weave if I can fit them by 50.  I kinda also want Group Fly and some Leadership toggles though, so power choices are getting tight. 

 

[Redlynne]

29 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I kinda also want Group Fly

Brings new meaning to "pouncing" on your $Targets when you switch from Group Fly to Hover above your $Targets from about 60-80 ft above them and alpha strike them with an AoE just as the Beasts are landing among them ... while you swoop lower to get back into PABoE Healing range of your ... Pets.

[Talionis]

It depends on your Secondary and what playstyle.  They are poor powers that round out many builds but they aren’t necessary for a Mastermind.  Even if you are playing a Tankermind you might find other sets.  
 

I think I can say I’ve never made a build where I never considered the Fighting pool.  So you at least consider it each time.  But they aren’t as necessary as Stamina but they are close to as good as Haste.  

[Kommon]

I don't recall that I have taken the fighting pol on any of my several masterminds, and I have zero issues with survivability.  I do have tough and weave on some of my melee characters, like my Rad/Fire brute and my Savage/Shield scrapper to help with not needing to slot sets for defense bonuses and instead to be able to chase more global recharge.

[EyeLuvBooks]

I never used to take the Fighting Pool on my MMs. I ALWAYS take it now, mostly because, as has been noted before several of the MM offensive powers can be skipped and Tough is just TOO useful. It's amazing how much more survivable my MMs are with 4-slotted Tough.

 

I've tried the Provoke route and I find it to be Meh at best. The power can use a couple of IOs not found on many other MM sets (Fear mainly) but I've found that simply taking an 80' ranged offensive power works just as well, if not better.

 

As with all things in this game, YMMV.