Are Player Defenses too high

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Burden of proof and discussions of nerfs not withstanding, I've got no idea how any of that is relevant to holding a mature conversation.

 

For 1: considering how you reply to posts online, let's keep it that way.

For 2: I have no idea why you'd think I care.  Maybe if you were an EMT or a teacher or even the cashier who checked my groceries last week, I'd care about your contributions to the welfare of others.  But this is a *GAME* lol.  To be frank, I don't give a fuck about your in-game contributions...unless, I dunno, you worked on the code or server security or some such.

 

Perhaps you're a sufferer of delusions of grandeur? I'm not belittling your in-game community but to think any of what you just posted has any gravity in this discussion is perplexing.

Maturity?   lol your throwing your language around in attacks demonstrates your level of intelligence to me.

 

In fact you seem very bitter, perhaps gaming shouldn't be your top priority.

 

I am an essential employee actually, worked every day of this in real life without an ounce of fear.  But honestly I dont need your respect or want it.  I gain peoples respect by being a leader in real life and in the game.  Being a leader is more about being a servant, thats the secret, and I'll gladly continue doing it both in reality and in my second reality here.

 

Life is more than this game, but in this game ive helped people through real life problems too.  Because I do care about everyone that has crossed paths with me.

 

And its a super hero game, arent we all suffering from dellusions of grandeur?  Hell if you arent you are missing the boat partner.

[subbacultchas]

I can't say as I agree with this, I think defenses/resistances are just fine. Set bonuses to cap def/res are often expensive, and require specific planning and slotting in which you lose out on other aspects. For most of my squishy character, they've pretty much become the norm in how I build and are really where I spend my inf. Losing those would make several characters go to the wayside, and inf become a pretty much useless thing, in turn negating a lot of work because other people didn't like min/maxed builds.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most often what I see here on this topic are complaints that def/res set bonuses trivialize the game (in addition to incarnates). And I believe this is often said by people who do not min/max, for whatever reasons, about other people's characters. Very very rarely do you see people complain that set bonuses made their character too powerful and trivialized content, likely because of the existing option to just not use them.  For a lot of folks, they make that character playable at a level they find comfortable. 

This is the rub for me: I don't believe asking for changes to a game based on personal feelings about other characters powers or bonuses are good. I get that it can be annoying to feel that other characters are more survivable, powerful, or whatever than your character. But it's not as if this were something denied to anyone, IO sets and bonuses are available to anyone and can be earned in a variety of ways. There should not be a push to overhaul a system in place that effects everyone, because of personal feelings whether it's desirable or not to use.

[subbacultchas]

While I'm fine with adding more difficulty options, I'm onboard with everyone here who pointed out that they already exist and are rarely used. Purple Patch considerations aside, I wouldn't want the devs working on this as a priority for what's likely very little actual usage.

[Bill Z Bubba]

42 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

And its a super hero game, arent we all suffering from dellusions of grandeur?

 

Delusions? I *am* awesome.

[MTeague]

I'm definitely adding "FF Corruptor" to my "Contrarian Builds List", to be a counterpoint to the Empath/Psychic Villain I created this past weekend.  (oh yea, REDSIDE Empathy.... was fun coming up with a character concept and backstory for that one....)

 

[Crysis]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Delusions? I *am* awesome.

I’m a legend in my own mind.  Isn’t everyone?

[Infinitum]

18 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I’m a legend in my own mind.  Isn’t everyone?

 

Why yes... Yes I am.  

[SlimPickens]

Not voting because none of the choices are realistic, but the answer is no.

 

Theres plenty of ways for players to make the game artificially harder if they choose. The fact that a well built character can become truly super doesnt mean the system itself is in need of nerfing or tweaking, it means you can choose to go all the way to 11, or dial it back to 1 and run unslotted using brawl from lvl 1-50 if you so choose to walk the hard road.

 

You are the one who controls how hard the game is by the choices you make when building your character. Nothing about the way the numbers crunch needs be changed, its already in your power to dumb yourself down as far as you feel makes it more exiting for you to play.

[Peacemoon]

4 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

Personally, I found that the difficult levels 1-5 were ok for the pick up and play mainstream crowd from 1-50 with SOs.

 

There's Incarnate trials for those that want to push it.  And soloing the ITF or TFs. 

 

But an elite mode for the game's content in general?

 

Perhaps that 'elite' mode should be focused in Kalista with mobs, general mission content, TFs etc.  Surprise AV attacks on the street...Setting the 'Elite' challenge in mobs, AVs, missions and spawn attacks for those with the incarnate and IO set builds.  A really dangerous zone in the way Bricks would be if you went there as a Talos level hero.

 

So it becomes the successor to P.Isle in terms of post L50 content in general instead of Shift levels being isolated largely to Trials. 

 

I think focusing the uniqueness of story and challenge in Kalista would address those seeking a new story and difficulty challenge.

 

I'm not fond of the Key's trial and the difficulty of it...  Some do.  I'd rather the difficulty challenge where it next goes further plays into the unique attributes of each AT.

 

An elite mode for the game in general?  Perhaps.  But I'd focus that in a 'next gen' 'end game' challenge in an area that is under developed eg. Kalista.  Where this can be a hot bed of focused challenge for devs and player.

 

ie.  You're an incarnate.  Now meet your incarnate challenge.  A zone where the incarnates meet and battle...  Mobs, AVs, factions, Trials, TFs all come together in true end game content where Gods battle Gods on the 'mountain top' of Kalista...

 

Azrael.

That would be a great way to add more challenging content.

Also all players with an alpha slot are basically level 51, 53 in ‘incarnate content’ So any end game zone should have level 54 mobs as standard.

 

In fact I agree with other posters. Having higher level mobs is an easy way to create more challenge, because +5 are harder to hit and debuff and do more damage.

 

Also I keep wavering on this a bit, between is the game too easy or not. It’s hard because I’m a veteran of so many years, I know this game inside out, I know what each mob does and what strategies to employ. I like challenges and enjoy high difficulty.  Things can break down a bit 40+ but I’m not sure how much that is down to inflated defence or just inflated damage in general. And it’s pretty cool when your hero becomes unstoppable, you feel like you graduate to proper “herohood”.

 

If there was one thing I’d change it would be Judgement powers. I don’t want to derail the thread, but alpha is fun and interesting. Hybrid and interface too. Destiny, particularly barrier and clarion (if you want to talk about defences, look at barrier) and Lore have more impact but generally balanced. Lore has a 15 minute recharge and the pets easily die if not looked after.

Judgement however is a 90s recharge nuke that one shots all minions, even +4s, and pretty much kills all lieutenants too (bosses are hardly scratched, interesting hp difference...). It’s fun solo but when you have a whole team with these powers it completely changes the game. Ironically while it’s annoying for low damage characters because there’s no mobs left to debuff, control, or generally defend against,  the Judgement damage is the same for all ATs. So my Defenders and Controllers can now AoE nuke a spawn of +4s and kill most of them without much fuss. No wonder Blaster nukes needed their crash removing, we’re all Blasters these days at high level! 
If it was me, I’d nerf Judgement powers, increase their recharge to 10 minutes and halve their damage. Even then they would still be super powerful given how easily they are obtained. It will probably never happen so I will just enjoy the power they give my “support” heroes!

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the deterioration of high level teaming is what makes people happy to start afresh with a new alt!

[Infinitum]

6 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

If it was me, I’d nerf Judgement powers, increase their recharge to 10 minutes and halve their damage. Even then they would still be super powerful given how easily they are obtained. It will probably never happen so I will just enjoy the power they give my “support” heroes!

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the deterioration of high level teaming is what makes people happy to start afresh with a new alt!

Not all judgement powers are the same though, for instance I choose mighty on most of my tanks for the KU effect.  It's no where the most powerful, honestly it's probably void because of the -dmg effect.

 

But either way if you are popping a judgement on lvl 54 incarnate minions it won't get them all.

 

There wouldn't be much point in even having a power that took that long to recharge because I normally take those powers for the looks and feel of it anyway.  I would likely forget I had it.  lol

 

If you could use them in all exemplared content I would agree more with you, but it's for top level stuff, not so much radio missions but even maria Jenkins and top level contacts have hard enough content to not nerf them.

 

I've never had an issue with judgements doing any more than having 2 nuke happy blasters on the team.  That clears way faster than a judgement will.

[macskull]

Also, a bit more on topic - at some point late in the game's life defense set bonuses got buffed to their current state. Positional and typed defense haven't always shared set bonuses like they do now, and even the admittedly huge defense bonuses in some of the ATO sets either existed already while the game was live or were going to go live with Issue 24. Additionally, resistance set bonuses got buffed across the board with Issue 24 in an attempt to make them more competitive with defense set bonuses when another option could have been to simply reduce the values of the existing defense bonuses. It's pretty clear where the trend was headed even back on live.

 

If you nerf defense across the board, either through adjusting set bonuses or raising enemy hit chances, congratulations, you've made the game more difficult, but... do most players want that? I'm still sitting over here in the "nope" camp and I know I'm in the majority. As I've said in this thread a few times, the options to make the game more difficult are there but players don't use them because they don't want to. Goldside isn't super popular at least in part because it's substantially more difficult than the older content. Certain enemy groups are avoided because they are harder than others. Seriously, broadcast in LFG that you're running Council at +4x8 and see how many bites you get, and then try the same thing but with Rularuu, Carnies, or Malta.

[Naraka]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Maturity?   lol your throwing your language around in attacks demonstrates your level of intelligence to me.

 

In fact you seem very bitter, perhaps gaming shouldn't be your top priority.

 

I am an essential employee actually, worked every day of this in real life without an ounce of fear.  But honestly I dont need your respect or want it.  I gain peoples respect by being a leader in real life and in the game.  Being a leader is more about being a servant, thats the secret, and I'll gladly continue doing it both in reality and in my second reality here.

 

Life is more than this game, but in this game ive helped people through real life problems too.  Because I do care about everyone that has crossed paths with me.

 

And its a super hero game, arent we all suffering from dellusions of grandeur?  Hell if you arent you are missing the boat partner.

Need I remind you, you're the one trying to invalidate my opinion, telling me *I* need to "stow" my opinion because you didn't like it (just because I disregarded your "OCD") and then you went on to try and prop up your opinion by saying you "help" people as if that somehow validates what you're saying or feel.

 

I say maturity because we are having a discussion and you're bringing off topic crap here like it means something.  You're not gaining respect by being an ass and putting people down by propping yourself up as some sort of helpful member of society.  I suppose if we were electing someone here as a spokesman of the CoH forums, perhaps, but it's meaningless to me.

 

Again, this is all because someone said "Your OCD be damned", and you're taking it as some kind of personal attack.  I'm sorry but I don't care about your OCD and no one else should have to to participate in a conversation here.  Oh! But it's fine to throw accusations of someone playing "Robin Hood" or some crap.  Notice how that individual poster didn't blow up in a tirade for that or become offended and start propping themselves up as if their irrelevant accolades made a difference in the discussion.

 

The funny thing is, I am holding myself back from being an immature dick and dressing you down.  I'm doing my best not to  [retypes rest of the post]...lol I have no qualms stooping to that level but I just don't want to do that at this time but you're not making that easy lol

[Infinitum]

Just now, Naraka said:

The funny thing is, I am holding myself back from being an immature dick and dressing you down.  I'm doing my best not to  [retypes rest of the post]...lol I have no qualms stooping to that level but I just don't want to do that at this time but you're not making that easy lol

I think you need to look again cause you are there already my friend.

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Need I remind you, you're the one trying to invalidate my opinion, telling me *I* need to "stow" my opinion because you didn't like it (just because I disregarded your "OCD") and then you went on to try and prop up your opinion by saying you "help" people as if that somehow validates what you're saying or feel.

 

I say maturity because we are having a discussion and you're bringing off topic crap here like it means something.  You're not gaining respect by being an ass and putting people down by propping yourself up as some sort of helpful member of society.  I suppose if we were electing someone here as a spokesman of the CoH forums, perhaps, but it's meaningless to me.

 

Again, this is all because someone said "Your OCD be damned", and you're taking it as some kind of personal attack.  I'm sorry but I don't care about your OCD and no one else should have to to participate in a conversation here.  Oh! But it's fine to throw accusations of someone playing "Robin Hood" or some crap.  Notice how that individual poster didn't blow up in a tirade for that or become offended and start propping themselves up as if their irrelevant accolades made a difference in the discussion.

 

The funny thing is, I am holding myself back from being an immature dick and dressing you down.  I'm doing my best not to  [retypes rest of the post]...lol I have no qualms stooping to that level but I just don't want to do that at this time but you're not making that easy lol

Btw.   

[Infinitum]

7 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

And that point is if you can calm your tourettes down long enough is that we help people learn to build to the meta if they want to so they dont feel invalidated if that is in fact an issue to them.

 

And looky there it doesnt break the game.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

I think you need to look again cause you are there already my friend.

I haven't thrown an insult at you beyond telling you to put big boy pants on.  You did call me a moron then go on to pretend other stuff mattered here.

 

I don't mind making hypothetical suggestions on the forums because I understand things don't often happen in a vacuum or on a whim.

 

The funny thing is, suggesting changes to the IO bonuses for def was merely a suggestion I thought of in the context of before IOs became as prevalent as they are.  If you look at my initial post in this thread, I actually said I think where the set bonuses lie now is fine but there should be incentive to play without them.  Had you taken more of my contributions to the thread to mind rather than emotional reactions, maybe we'd be in a less confrontational interaction.  But you fired back first lol  I guess if you aren't conditioned enough to accept the word "damn" in common language (there's a lot worse in the military) taking offense but I have never claimed to be mature when it comes to arguments.  In fact, I'm quite immature in that regards BUT I am containing myself.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

I haven't thrown an insult at you beyond telling you to put big boy pants on.  You did call me a moron then go on to pretend other stuff mattered here.

 

I don't mind making hypothetical suggestions on the forums because I understand things don't often happen in a vacuum or on a whim.

 

The funny thing is, suggesting changes to the IO bonuses for def was merely a suggestion I thought of in the context of before IOs became as prevalent as they are.  If you look at my initial post in this thread, I actually said I think where the set bonuses lie now is fine but there should be incentive to play without them.  Had you taken more of my contributions to the thread to mind rather than emotional reactions, maybe we'd be in a less confrontational interaction.  But you fired back first lol  I guess if you aren't conditioned enough to accept the word "damn" in common language (there's a lot worse in the military) taking offense but I have never claimed to be mature when it comes to arguments.  In fact, I'm quite immature in that regards BUT I am containing myself.

I think the only one having an emotional breakdown here is you buddy.

[Naraka]

Just now, Infinitum said:

I think the only one having an emotional breakdown here is you buddy.

No one here accused anyone of having an emotional breakdown but you.  I said emotional reaction, which is a natural thing.

 

You're trying really hard to insult people passive aggressively.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

No one here accused anyone of having an emotional breakdown but you.  I said emotional reaction, which is a natural thing.

 

You're trying really hard to insult people passive aggressively.

lol no, im not, im letting you rant hoping you will burn yourself out because you are stuck somewhere in make believe land right now.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Infinitum

[Naraka]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

lol no, im not, im letting you rant hoping you will burn yourself out because you are stuck somewhere in make believe land right now.

Uh, that's another insult there.  So you're telling me you're not trying to insult me while insulting me?  That's gaslighting.  I'm not that dumb lol

[Infinitum]

Just now, Naraka said:

Uh, that's another insult there.  So you're telling me you're not trying to insult me while insulting me?  That's gaslighting.  I'm not that dumb lol

No, it's not and no. I'm really not.  Please continue.  As long as you are enjoying yourself.

[Naraka]

Just now, Infinitum said:

No, it's not and no. I'm really not.  Please continue.  As long as you are enjoying yourself.

Yes it is and yes you are.  You even say you're pushing me to continue ranting which is a type of manipulation, the very definition of gaslighting.

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, Peacemoon said:

If there was one thing I’d change it would be Judgement powers. I don’t want to derail the thread...

I'm with you on Judgements. 100% agree. 

But

1 hour ago, Peacemoon said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the deterioration of high level teaming is what makes people happy to start afresh with a new alt!

At least in my case, it's seeing other players and saying "ooo, he has shiny toys, I want one of those....".

Teaming or lack thereof has nothing to do with the WANTING to alt.

If anything teaming increases the alts because I see more powersets with more shiny toys.

 

It's the lack of MMO Endgame Progression Grinding (and this is a GOOD THING, I do not want that grind!!) that enables me to be alt-errific.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Naraka said:

Yes it is and yes you are.  You even say you're pushing me to continue ranting which is a type of manipulation, the very definition of gaslighting.

I'm not pushing you to anything, I'm just waiting and watching you right now.

 

So do you need me to stop replying to stop your rant?

 

Consider it done.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, MTeague said:

It's the lack of MMO Endgame Progression Grinding (and this is a GOOD THING, I do not want that grind!!) that enables me to be alt-errific.

This right here, alts are the true CoH endgame.