Teleport Pool now that /enterbasefrompasscode exists

[Apparition]

13 hours ago, Fortuneteller said:

I'd say it's about time the dev team removed the base teleport slash command. Personally i hate it.

It's un-CoH.

Now i've had a couple folks recently telling me i'm dumb for not using the base tp 8888 command in TF's, because i'm not as speedy as they are... Personally i don't give a shit, but that's an example that folks are beginning to ~expect everyone~ to be using the slash command.

Yep.  People are now being expected to use the base teleport slash command, and I hate that.  It should have been removed back around October of last year, and it really needs to go now.

[zvelf]

Now that base beacons can take everyone to most zones and Mission Teleport can be purchased for 1 million influence and Team Transport for 10 million, Long Range Teleport is near useless with its limited zone options and long cast time. It should be improved to include nearly every non-Echo zone including Firebase Zulu and have a 3 second cast time, and if a mission is selected, it gives you the option to teleport you to the mission entrance and if the mission is to talk to a contact, it gives you the option to teleport to the contact (making task forces even faster). That would be worth a power slot and the two previous slots required to unlock the power.

[zenblack]

9 hours ago, Apparition said:

Yep.  People are now being expected to use the base teleport slash command, and I hate that.  It should have been removed back around October of last year, and it really needs to go now.

This is 100% happening all the time. I personally have given away a macro for it probably 100 times in the last 4 months. It's just an assumed part of how the game is played. This is why I feel that simply removing it may be of debate with HC because of it's impact on the community. It would be much different if it wasn't introduced by HC and it wasn't left in for more time than it hasn't been in the game. Unlike the Patrol x2 influence thing, this isn't an exploit, even if it is exploited by players. It was introduced by HC.

[Apparition]

11 minutes ago, zenblack said:

This is 100% happening all the time. I personally have given away a macro for it probably 100 times in the last 4 months. It's just an assumed part of how the game is played. This is why I feel that simply removing it may be of debate with HC because of it's impact on the community. It would be much different if it wasn't introduced by HC and it wasn't left in for more time than it hasn't been in the game. Unlike the Patrol x2 influence thing, this isn't an exploit, even if it is exploited by players. It was introduced by HC.

 

It is an exploit.  It was confirmed by the developers several months ago.  It was never intended for players to use.  And now, players that aren't using a confirmed exploit are starting to be penalized by the players who do as a result.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Apparition

[zenblack]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

It is an exploit.  It was confirmed by the developers several months ago.  It was never intended for players to use.  And now, players that aren't using a confirmed exploit are starting to be penalized by the players who do as a result.

I refer back to MTeague's first post. If they can release an entire "Page", "fix" tankers and release new Power Pools but not fix this exploit, it begs the question if this really is an exploit.

[ImpousVileTerror]

I mean, as I recall, Leandro was the one who originally called it an exploit.  However, Leandro isn't a member of the Homecoming Team, but rather a consultant.  I can't even remember the last time I saw him port or react to anything on this forum.

The last official response regarding the base entry command was also pruned along with the entire thread it was in.  It leaves me wondering what the final verdict is on the command, and even if the Team themselves have decided.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ImpousVileTerror
Link to post in question added.

[ShardWarrior]

On 6/13/2020 at 12:28 PM, MTeague said:

I tried to. For a long time. But they've said that for a long, LONG, time while nothing has happened.

At a certain point, what you DO, or DON'T DO, speaks so loudly, that I can no longer hear words that claim otherwise.

 

Now, It's their game of course, and they have full rights to do anything they want with it, and they are by no means bound to take action sooner because of anything I say. 

But frankly, on the removal of enterbasefrompasscode?  I'll believe it when I see it.  And not before.

If you read the various posts they have made on the subject, it has been said a few times the passcode is not getting removed without having another solution in place.  That will take time to develop, but the passcode slash command will be going away eventually.

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you read the various posts they have made on the subject, it has been said a few times the passcode is not getting removed without having another solution in place.  That will take time to develop, but the passcode slash command will be going away eventually.

honestly, if they're going to take away the slash command but put some other kind of "Anyone can do this" zone teleport in it's place.... that doesn't cost a power choice..... then from my point of view they might as well leave the slash command in place.  But that's me.

Edited June 15, 2020 by MTeague

[ImpousVileTerror]

The biggest draw to making it a Power is -that- way they can control where and when it's available.

ie:  Not in PvP Zones.  Not in missions that are supposed to "trap" you.  Not in "No Temp Powers" Ouro-runs.

[zenblack]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

honestly, if they're going to take away the slash command but put some other kind of "Anyone can do this" zone teleport in it's place.... that doesn't cost a power choice..... then from my point of view they might as well leave the slash command in place.  But that's me.

I agree that it would be almost functionally the same. In either case, whether it does happen or it comes with enough restrictions to make using it, the Prestige Powers, and the Day Job Powers the Teleport Pool is still left flapping in the wind if it is not adjusted.

[Grouchybeast]

3 hours ago, MTeague said:

honestly, if they're going to take away the slash command but put some other kind of "Anyone can do this" zone teleport in it's place.... that doesn't cost a power choice..... then from my point of view they might as well leave the slash command in place.  But that's me.

IIRC think the plan was to replace it with a summonable base portal, like the Ouro portal, which will act as a normal base portal and also allow people to us a base passcode macro to a different when standing next to it.  So it will have a fairly short cooldown and an interruptible animation, which will handle the issue of it being a get-out-of-jail-free card for Mo and PVP, but it will still allow people to visit other bases easily.  It seems like a nice addition to the game if they can get it working right.

[ShardWarrior]

5 hours ago, MTeague said:

honestly, if they're going to take away the slash command but put some other kind of "Anyone can do this" zone teleport in it's place.... that doesn't cost a power choice..... then from my point of view they might as well leave the slash command in place.  But that's me.

People are doing this now with the mission and team teleports.  The primary issues with the slash command is that it is being used to escape deaths in PvP and Master of TF runs.  Turning it into an Oro-like portal that has a short animation and is interruptible solves those problems.

[SwitchFade]

The basepasscode exploit should be shut off immediately. It's decidedly turning CoH into an instanced only arena type of game. It's warping gameplay, mindsets and the very culture of the game.

[ImpousVileTerror]

Without putting a value judgement on this particular command, I do want to say:
The gameplay, mindsets, and culture related to the game -are- allowed to change.

The introductions of the black market and of inventions caused sweeping changes as well.  Prestige Powers had a pretty big impact too, as I recall.

 

By all means, call out the command's negative impact, but I think levelling a criticism of "the meta is changing" is more of a matter of personal preference.  I encourage players to consider that, AND that even once the instantaneousness of the command is hit by the Devs, if the plans discussed in the past are accurate, the meta will remain changed regardless.  People will still instantly travel to bases; they'll just be using an actual in-game Power rather than a slash command.  

The gameplay, mindset, and culture remain largely fixed on the new path they've started on.

[Apparition]

13 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

Without putting a value judgement on this particular command, I do want to say:
The gameplay, mindsets, and culture related to the game -are- allowed to change.

The introductions of the black market and of inventions caused sweeping changes as well.  Prestige Powers had a pretty big impact too, as I recall.

 

By all means, call out the command's negative impact, but I think levelling a criticism of "the meta is changing" is more of a matter of personal preference.  I encourage players to consider that, AND that even once the instantaneousness of the command is hit by the Devs, if the plans discussed in the past are accurate, the meta will remain changed regardless.  People will still instantly travel to bases; they'll just be using an actual in-game Power rather than a slash command.  

The gameplay, mindset, and culture remain largely fixed on the new path they've started on.

That is a danged shame, because honestly it makes me want to play less, or at the very least not team.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Apparition

[ImpousVileTerror]

As a comparison; do you use the Ouroboros Portal to travel between zones quickly?  What about the various 15-second cast time Teleports?  Do you feel about them roughly the same as you feel about this slash command?

[Blackfeather]

8 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

As a comparison; do you use the Ouroboros Portal to travel between zones quickly?  What about the various 15-second cast time Teleports?  Do you feel about them roughly the same as you feel about this slash command?

I'm pretty sure the main difference here is that the /enterbasefrompasscode command isn't supposed to be something that players can access. Per Number Six:

[Doc_Scorpion]

55 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

The gameplay, mindsets, and culture related to the game -are- allowed to change.

Certainly.  The question is whether a particular change or changes are healthy for the overall game or not.  I do not believe that HC's ever growing fetish for speed (in leveling, in completing missions, in travel, in kitting out uber-builds, in practically every facet of the game) to be healthy.

[ImpousVileTerror]

When it comes to we, the players, the "health of the game" thing is only ever belief and conjecture and assumptions and predictions.   And (mostly) preference.

Until we can start seeing hard numbers, mapping them to a statical trend graph, and compare against a series of data . . . we players are always just going to have a limited scope for determining what anything has in regard to the health of the game.  We can speak on behalf of ourselves.  We can speak on behalf of those who expressly give us their permission to do so.  But we can't speak for the entire population, or the sustainability thereof.

 

I'm not suggesting that the Homecoming Team inherently know what's -best- . . . but they are in the unique position to see things the rest of us aren't privy to.   I will always criticize anyone who falls back to the "just trust the Devs" defense, but in this particular case . . . it has been over a year now.  I feel the Homecoming Dev team would have certainly prioritized the access to this command if they felt there was evidence of it clearly having a negative impact on the overall health of the game, comparative to pulling the plug on it without anything in place.  While I can't accurately gauge the backroom communications between Devs, what sort of challenges they're facing as a team, or the resources they have at their disposal . . . I generally feel that they're the type who will promptly address what they've come to agree on as serious issues.

 

If "trust the Devs" is fair to put forward for Inf reward structures, then I think it can be invoked here just as easily.

Leaves a dirty taste in my mouth to do it, of course . . . but I feel there's been no small number of people who are overstating the overall severity of the enterbase command.

 

And for the contextual record; I am very publicly an advocate for encouraging players to take their time and just absorb the content at a nice, relaxed pace.

But I also acknowledge that if other players want to move fast, then I'll just have to sit back here, eating their dust, and looking for my fellow "turtle-pacers" to team up with.  The game isn't mine alone.

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

As a comparison; do you use the Ouroboros Portal to travel between zones quickly?  What about the various 15-second cast time Teleports?  Do you feel about them roughly the same as you feel about this slash command?

 

I try to avoid Ouroboros when possible now due to all the people that hang out right at the zone entrance, clogging it.  I use Assemble the Team, Mission Transporter, and the Base Teleport powers from the P2W vendor, but you can only use them once every half hour, and even then I very rarely use the Mission Transporter and Base Teleport powers... only when I have to to catch up with others, or with the Moonfire TF to go to Skyway.

 

The differences are that the base teleport slash command is a confirmed exploit by Homecoming staff, and that you can effectively use it every other second if you wanted to, negating any and all zone travel.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Apparition

[ImpousVileTerror]

So, would it be fair to suggest (or outright state) that in general you don't like to rely on forms of travel that bypass game areas by using instant travel, and that the enterbase command is above-and-beyond the worst offender in a category of travel you usually don't rely on?

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

So, would it be fair to suggest (or outright state) that in general you don't like to rely on forms of travel that bypass game areas by using instant travel, and that the enterbase command is above-and-beyond the worst offender in a category of travel you usually don't rely on?

 

That, and that the playerbase has come to expect everyone to use it.

[ImpousVileTerror]

Ok.  So . . . in my own play experience, I find that the playerbase expects everyone to strive for Level 50, as if it's "The Point" of the game.

I don't play that way.

It often leaves me out in the cold, and unable to find meaningful social interaction with other players who share my niche view of the game.

 

As much as I -want- the game to force some other players to take a route that would put them on the same path as myself, I simply can't advocate for that.  At best, I can ask for the creation of new positive incentives to encourage my kind of play.

 

I feel we're not too dissimilar here.  It really, really sucks to be left alone in a social game when you actively WANT to participate with others, but the specific requirements for that participation aren't accessible to you (for whatever reason).  I certainly want to encourage the Devs to explore more and more options that support players having the independent agency to bypass whatever barriers exist that normally prevent them from engaging in the game's social play.  

But the enterbase command IS exactly one of those tools.  From what I've seen of its use, it is actively facilitating more play across levels and zones.  That's a good thing!  That's something to relish.

Some of us are getting left behind, yes . . . but (again, limited scope and perspective here) I see the enterbase command as a net positive to player accessibility.

[MTeague]

10 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

And for the contextual record; I am very publicly an advocate for encouraging players to take their time and just absorb the content at a nice, relaxed pace.

But I also acknowledge that if other players want to move fast, then I'll just have to sit back here, eating their dust, and looking for my fellow "turtle-pacers" to team up with.  The game isn't mine alone.

I hear that.

I do not like enterbasefrompasscode.  but it's existed for most of a year, and I've basically ignored it.  

 

I've become very selective with teaming.   I prefer to travel, oldschool, from mission to mission, across city maps.  Once in awhile I'll use Ouro.  Usually I don't unless i am specfically doing flashbacks.   I never join ANYTHING that's a "speed run".  "Kill Most" is my preferred mode, and if I can get it, "Kill Most" at +2 or +3.   

 

I will not join a lvl 45+ team with strangers until my characters are  T4 incarnates. I will team 45+ content if I KNOW the people I'm teaming with are not yet incarnates.  Otherwise, I will do Task Forces or exemplar to lower level mission groups, or just solo, to advance my characters from 45-50 and to get them their incarnates.  Even when I am a T4 incarnate I'm still fairlly selective what teams I join.  I don't really enjoy blaster heavy teams facerolling Council or Crey or CoT where every spawn is nuked or judged.  I prefer teams where control and support matter.  Exemplaring allows me to ensure that it does.

 

It does feel sometimes that CoH is gradually becoming more of a single-player or limited Co-Op game for me than an MMO, because of how restrictive I am on what teams I join.  I don't really have a good answer to that yet.  I'm still working through that.

[SwitchFade]

A function that allows any player, at any time to bypass most zone travel is decidedly broken.

 

This isn't a question of change, meta or evolution, it's one of design.

 

This game is an MMO with a living world and was meant to be lived in, traveled and experienced. Instanced missions are part of that, but removing nearly all of the travel and world experience is a complete design overhaul.

 

I have no desire to play an instanced only game, and this is changing the culture to where everyone does it, everyone expects it and if you don't do it, EVERY team is beginning to start without players who DON'T use it.

 

Shut it off, now.

Edited June 15, 2020 by SwitchFade