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Archmage1000

Duo Help

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I am making a DP/SR Sent, cause I hear good things about it, but need help with picking a duo partner other than Mastermind and Brute

Anyone have any suggestions for a partner for my Sent

 

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What role (if any) do you want your partner to play?  Do you want a meat shield to take point?  Do you want to take point with heals/buffs following you?  Do you want someone to lock down targets while you pick them off?  Do you want moar damage?


@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Archmage1000 said:

Probably someone that can do damage but stay alive also

That's still pretty broad strokes.  Technically all ATs have some combination that can pull off damage plus staying alive.  

If you're looking at ease of play, then stick to the simple ATs.  That's Brutes, Tankers, Scrappers, Stalkers, Sentinels, and maybe even a VEAT.  

 

Another Sentinel or VEAT may be complicated on how you build them.  However, most Brute/Tanker/Scrapper/Stalker combinations are easy to build and play without requiring a PhD in how this game works.  

Blasters/Dominators/Corruptors can all contribute significant damage when built right, but their ability to stay alive is a process of maturity.  Defenders and Controllers will likely feel a lot slower until you get them tricked out with a solid build plan.  I happen to love Controllers and I play several, but they are not for the weak of stomach or faint of heart.  The HEATs can offer very interesting opportunities, but I find they can be very complex to pull off.  So I'd exercise caution with jumping in on a Peacebringer/Warshade.  Absolutely look into them because they can be fun as hell, but maybe not super easy to just jump in with.  

Masterminds are also an option.  Their level of complexity has a lot of range.  They can feel really simple or you can go very deep into the weeds with it.  

Edited by oldskool

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I tried a Dp/SR sentinel but found the damage lacking. I switched to a Fire/SR Sentinel and the damage was so much better. But i could have just been slotting DP wrong.

 

A Brute seems a good choice for you.

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DP/SR is one of my all-time faves. Thinking out loud here because... server maintenance 😃

SR "dodges" a lot of attacks, but when some connect they do tend to hurt, though this can be mitigated. So you don't really need a meat shield. SR also gives a heck of a lot of recharge so if you pick a tank/brute/scrapper for your duo, you might kill creeps before the melee can get to them. The only thing I would appreciate from a tank/brute in such a duo would be aggro... then again, if you're attacking them, you'll have their undivided attention. (some of my sents can tank and aggro as well)

 

Controllers and doms can help with crowd control or to hold down bosses/AVs if that's what you're aiming for. however, a bit of control can be had from the sentinel epic pools (of course, not the same level as the AT, but they're there).

DP doesn't pack a lot of damage, but it can debuff def and res. It's also got a good balance of ST and AoEs on a fairly short recharge (even made faster by SR). Not sure if sents' opportunity stack (as the write up claims) with other sents will be enough to be worth it, but that might be worth looking into. I would loosely say bring dps, but not recommend a blaster or corruptor as they might not be able to keep up with you. sure they pack a punch, but they die a little too often (with me at least).

Mercs MMs might be a good fit thematically. just stay away from caves 😃

I would say duo with:
1) another DP/SR sent
2) a defender... (or offender) for additional buffs and heals.

3) a spider (SoA or Fortunata not widow). the additional double Leadership buffs will make you two very tanky as well as improve damage and to-hit. a huntsman (AR + nades) will go well thematically... with pets in case you need back up... and because spiders are my new favourite, and I'm biased. 

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3 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I tried a Dp/SR sentinel but found the damage lacking. I switched to a Fire/SR Sentinel and the damage was so much better. But i could have just been slotting DP wrong.

Could have been slotting.  It could have been power selection.  It could have been a combination of both.  

Folks do enjoy praising Dual Pistols and I often see folks sing praises like it is in the X of Y list of damage when running Incendiary Ammo.  Then I'll see a build and it makes me scratch my head.  

Rose colored glasses are a real thing, and Dual Pistols has a lot of fans that can't seem to admit it can lack some oomph without a certain kind of slotting approach.  

I say this as having some form of Dual Pistols across all four ATs that have access to it.  I genuinely have grown quite fond of that set.  I am a sucker for an underdog.  However, vanilla Dual Pistols damage is every bit of lackluster damage that people complain it to be.  Especially for Blasters and even more so in all ranged Blaster builds.  

That said, Dual Pistols has a multitude of proc opportunities available to it, and it vastly improves its baseline damage.  The set just cannot overcome the lack of Aim all on its own, but it can definitely make up for a lot of damage lost via procs.  A good secondary pick that can add slotting opportunities to shoe-horn Guassian's in can also help a lot and even more so in team situations if this is housed in Tactics.  

Obviously I'm highly opinionated on this set, but there is a very good reason why my Dual Pistols Blaster is actually a Blapper, and all of my other Dual Pistols characters are jacked up on proc damage. 

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So is there a better dps set to go with instead of DP.  Something will good single target and Aoe ability

 

Robert

 

Or is there just a combo for a very strong solo Sentinel to do

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A friend of mine is playing one of those and I am playing a Water/Will Sentinel.  We are a good team so far but in endgame we might run into issues.  But its fun!

 

Umby

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Any at combo is fun.

 

Just be aware that DP is low damage compared to other sent sets, as well as DP on blasters.

 

I love SR, just be ready for it to bloom late, post lvl 36.

 

All in all, if you're having fun, then enjoy! Invite a teammate that is fun, don't worry about best. At 0/1, any AT is good 

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34 minutes ago, Archmage1000 said:

So is there a better dps set to go with instead of DP.  Something will good single target and Aoe ability

 

Robert

 

Or is there just a combo for a very strong solo Sentinel to do

That depends on how you built your Sentinel, Robert.  

Many of the Sentinel sets have very similar AoE capability because there is a lot of similarities across the various sets.  Just about any of them have good AoE.  Some of them have better single target than others.  When I say this I am talking about baseline build designs using full invention sets in the powers.  Basically just maximizing the base damage of the power.  A few Sentinel sets work very well on just improving base damage alone, and in that respect they are very easy to build.  Other Sentinel sets may not perform as well on just baseline damage upgrades alone, and may require additional damage sources like "procs".  Out of a list of 13 power sets, there are maybe 3-4 that work real well with an easy build approach.  The other 9-10 require a bit more thought, and when a player puts the effort into that can get rewarded with a very strong character.  Maybe not the best thing ever/world destroyer, but still very capable.  

Dual Pistols is an awfully complex set.  Almost every single power in the kit can have a purpose.  Without really getting into the weeds on it, it can be real easy to make what seems like a lackluster character with Dual Pistols.  Dual Pistols on just base damage enhancement alone is not nearly as great as it is often made out to be.  People enjoy exaggerating when they have their own pet sets.  Dual Pistols can sometimes be that set.  Does this mean Dual Pistols sucks?  Absolutely not.  At least, not in my experience.  When viewed entirely in a vacuum the set is roughly middle of the road for Sentinel damage when using certain powers as its best option.  That's honestly not a bad place to be, but it isn't exactly the best set either.  There is the potential to try and play Sentinel Dual Pistols as one may in another archetype and fall far short of even that middle of the road potential.   As I mentioned before, I have four different characters with Dual Pistols. Technically 5 since I have a second Sentinel with it.  If I couldn't get this kit to work, I wouldn't play.  The animations are over the top, and the general side effects it brings are pretty cool too.  Its a decent set.  

Now, if you take Dual Pistols and improve its damage beyond just the baseline with additional sources it becomes a lot better.  Can it match all the other sets toe-to-toe?  Not really, but it doesn't need to either.  It can bring just enough damage to get the job done.  

If you're looking to just run super casual then it has to be Fire.  Fire Blast has the following going for it: 

 

1) Basic damage with it is pretty good. 

2) Doesn't have much in the way of additional damage sources in the primary (you can manipulate Fireball with slotting, but that's advanced building class 105 down the hall).  

3) Fits with just about any secondary because all it has going for it extra damage and brings no real mitigation to the table (it has a repel, but who cares)

4) Has multiple powers that can be skipped making it highly flexible.  

5) Generally the min-maxer choice, but this is going to be completely meaningless if you don't know what you're doing

 

For whatever it is worth under the definition of "Good", I've solo'ed some archvillains and task forces with Dual Pistol characters.  Its totally fine, but often exaggerated to be a lot stronger than it is.  

Moral of the story; don't follow FoTM BS.  Play what you want to play because it can be made into something special.  Most Sentinel pairs can work.  Only a few combos struggle.  Those are generally anything looking to run Fiery Aura or Ice Armor because both of these sets take a lot of resources to fix their problems.  Beyond that, go nuts. 

 

 

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Ill second fire also.

 

Good Aoe and single target damage. Some fast attacks and throw in the psi epic pool lol.

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3 hours ago, oldskool said:

Only a few combos struggle.  Those are generally anything looking to run Fiery Aura or Ice Armor because both of these sets take a lot of resources to fix their problems.  Beyond that, go nuts. 

While this IS true.... I do want to say, I have a Fire/Fire/Fire Sentinel that's an absolute joy to play. 

Fiery Aura, at least for Sentinels, can become quite respectable if you slot your character well. 

It may not be the best min/max choice, but he's plenty durable, without Tough, without Weave, and still a few levels short of having any Incarnates. 

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Let's start with the good news. Super Reflexes on a Sentinel is the best version of the set. Master Brawler is a huge upgrade over Practiced Brawler and Sentinels are the only ones who can hard-cap resists from 0% just using SR (admittedly, this only happens at 0% health so you still need to invest in resists a bit). It's definitely a solid set and you're going to almost certainly take 7/9 powers. That being said, don't expect the sort of bumbling into Incarnate soft-cap that you would with a Tanker.

 

The bad news is that it comes paired with a Sentinel Blast set.

 

In general, Sentinel Blasts have:

  • Better control attacks
  • Worse sniper attacks
  • Better ultimates
  • Worse debuffs (than Defenders/Corruptors)
  • Arguably better/worse cones

Since Dual Pistols has a control attack, no sniper attack and only one (not terribly good) debuff, it's a 'better' version if you ignore the damage scale issues.

 

That being said, there are two main reasons people play Bual Pistols. The first is style - it's got great animations. The second is the ability to layer procs everywhere. Not only does it have two KB AE for Force Feedback, but virtually every single target power can equip 3+ procs of various sorts.

 

The problem with this is that 'proc monsters' don't really work well for non-support AT. While procs like Force Feedback or Theft of Essence can actually fuel your build, the standard damage procs don't scale with content.

 

So if you're a Defender, a 'proc monster' can make your performance acceptable while you're alone and help you a bit while in a small group. But you're going to be vastly out-classed by actual dps AT in a full team/league. However, on a Defender it doesn't normally matter because in a group that size, your primary will normally be providing a enough of a force multiplier that you don't even need to blast to justify your place on the team.

 

The same is generally true of a Controller, Corruptor or even a Mastermind. But it isn't true of a Sentinel. As a result, the Sentinel 'proc monster' is fairly solid solo but their value rapidly diminishes as you scale up the team size because all those damage procs they're depending on to balance the scales between Dual Pistols and, say, Fire aren't enough to actually bridge the gap.

 

Thus, you should temper your expectations. You'll do great solo or maybe in a duo; in a full team/league you'll feel underpowered compared to your allies.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I think some of the above needs a bit more clarity.  

 

Several Sentinel powers that are heavy on control in other ATs were converted into damage powers.  Suppressive Fire in Dual Pistols normally has a long base cool down, very low damage, and a reasonable duration to the control element (stun or hold).  The Sentinel version does far better damage, has a shorter cool down adding reliability/sustainability to the rotation, and has a fraction of the control duration.  Some Sentinel control attacks, as found in the other ATs, retain a reasonable duration on some effects while also improving damage.  That's not the norm though.  Some Sentinel attacks completely trade their original version for something entirely different (e.g., Ice Blast).  These attacks are generally only better because they cause damage while having the capacity for a minor interrupt, but they aren't always strong control options due to the diminished duration.  

 

Sentinels have no sniper attacks at all.  So this cannot be worse because it doesn't even exist.  A different way to phrase this could be Sentinels replace sniper attacks for new abilities and sometimes those effects do not pan out very well.  There were some winners in the sniper replacement world, and some sets that lost something for it.  Generally though the Sentinel attack rotations are fairly smoothed out and less spikey without snipes. 

 

Better ultimates is debatable.  Sentinels can get their ultimates on pretty short cooldowns, but the cousin version of certain sets can also do that in other ATs.  So what if my Blaster or Defender's Hail of Bullets recharges in 30 seconds vs my Sentinel's 25 seconds?  The Blaster will do more damage.  Sentinel Archery and Assault Rifle have longer cooldowns on their ultimates with some additional changes to help pad that out.  I'm not sure I'd say "better" is the appropriate term.  It is just different.  For several other sets though the Sentinel can have their ultimate available with a bit more frequency and that can be a very significant contributor to team damage.  

Sentinels have the exact same debuff modifiers as Blasters do.  Bringing up Defenders/Corruptors is kinda pointless since the Sentinel isn't a support AT.  
 

The rest of the commentary can be true but it can also be assuming a lot of conditions.  It is also assuming a certain kind of mindset with builds within the AT and how it relates directly to the philosophy of another AT.  That's a recipe for misunderstanding.  Damage procs and ED capping damage don't need to be mutually exclusive.  Damage procs won't benefit from team buffs like +damage, but they still interact -resistance.  The Sentinel itself happens to bring some -resistance.  That effect has two parts.  One is a small persistent benefit, and the other a burst option.  Sentinels improve everyone else's damage along with their own; procs included.  There is some merit to the spirit of that argument, but it isn't detailed enough to give anyone an informed opinion. 

Edited by oldskool

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may be a bit late on this one but a Plant /Dark Troller would be awesome for your partner, Creepers give great damage when procced and he can be almost a tank himslef with /dark as well as great debuffs and heals not to mention seeds of confusion is damn near broken  it is so good.

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