Contact and Mission Progress from 1-50.

[Golden Azrael]

Hello CoH brethren...

 

My Duo partner and I have set ourselves the task of following the Elite 1-50 contacts.  

 

Just follow the 'contacts' and go, right?

 

But it seems really easy to 'break' as you outlevel 'a' contact and the progression gets broken for one or the other of you.

 

I've long had the idea that CoH has all the content...but it's very 'random' seeming.

 

I'd suggest creating:

 

1. Origin Paths.

2. AT Paths.

3. Mob Paths.

4. A zone path.

 

Where you can choose your 'path' through the game.  Ie.  If you want to be a 'Batman' style character you could follow a natural path of contacts and stay based in Kings Row if you so wished.  If you were a Tank you may choose more melee orientated mobs.

 

It's just a mechanism that can package up the content in the game.  If need be...at the character creation window.  You can choose your chosen path throughout the game...or when you enter Atlas for the 1st time you have a choice of path with a range of options from Origin, AT, Mob or Zone.

 

Another bug bear.  If you try to choose the contacts (when its borked in game...) in Oro...you get the name of the arc...but not the 'contact' next to it.  A picture but not their name.  Which is a bit of a mismatch to the wiki.

 

And with Oro it's limited to your level progression.

 

I always thought it would aid replayability of the game IF you could as a Scrapper choose a certain path.  Or if you were a magic origin...you would choose certain foes.

 

But the game contact system seems to break and offer up 'other' contacts that blow you off course if say, your specialism is 'natural.'

 

Discuss?  One for the devs.

 

Azrael.

[Lines]

I know the work is massive and probably follows some severe chewing up of the underlying contacts system, but I'm hugely in favour of a clearer contacts overhaul within the game. Right now, the stories are all over the dang shop.

 

The 'find contacts' is the closest thing we have to some sort of roadmap for players to follow, but that's so heavily spammed with First Ward/Night Ward stuff that it's barely passable.

 

A progress tree that prompts you through coherent strings of contacts would be amazing, especially if you could tailor it to your character concept.

[Golden Azrael]

100% agree.  There is loads of context bypassed because of the way it's currently set up.  It could be packaged in ways to aid replayability if you're a scrapper, a tank, a defender...or Magic Origin...Or Natural or Science etc..  The mobs are there.  The missions are there.  There are loads of conacts I never get to play because I out level them too quick.

 

In WoW.  They have a system whereby you can play any contact now...and it's still a 'challenge' to do the missions.  That's one potential solution.  But Be nice if you could do to eg. A SunStorm contact.  And he stays with your for 1-50.  Just giving you the content you need for say, a PB or a WS from L1-50.  That's the kind of thing.  Flavouring the content to themes.

 

We have the find contacts utility.  

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/ELITE   

 

And to follow this path for Natural, Science, Magic etc from 1-50 would be great.  It makes the 'Origin' far more impactful and meaningful in terms of your selection of it on the character creator.  Once you've done the 1st contact...they send you to the 2nd...etc.  Right through to L50.  That makes more sense to me.  In terms of Origin type.

 

It would be nice to follow this from 1-50 without being blown off course.

 

That's my personal plea to the devs.  CoH.  Great game to play.  Great content.  But the content is somewhat 'random' in my eyes when it could be more apparently customised along arc paths.  eg. Like the Sunstorm PB/WS contact.

 

Azrael.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

Or use  variation of the AE for the player to create their own path through the game.  As another idea.

 

Azrael.

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Lines said:

I know the work is massive and probably follows some severe chewing up of the underlying contacts system, but I'm hugely in favour of a clearer contacts overhaul within the game. Right now, the stories are all over the dang shop.

 

The 'find contacts' is the closest thing we have to some sort of roadmap for players to follow, but that's so heavily spammed with First Ward/Night Ward stuff that it's barely passable.

 

A progress tree that prompts you through coherent strings of contacts would be amazing, especially if you could tailor it to your character concept.

It would be great to repurpose/expand the contacts window to make content more accessible.  Contacts could be put in thematic groups (origin, zone, AT, alignment, storyline, enemy group etc) and the players could use the TP to new contact feature to start a storyline.

 

It would also be nice to be able to use this to bypass the need to unlock the older contacts.  If you're trying to coordinate two or more players playing through the same content, it can be annoying trying to coordinate unlocking the contacts.

[Golden Azrael]

Grouchy,

 

I hear what you're saying.  

 

Just needs repurposing...repackaging.  It would add a great deal of polish and replayability if we could play the game in this regard.  So the the story journey through the game is more 'customisable' to a theme.  It would make the journey more unique.

 

Thematic groups as you say.  Origin, zone...AT, Alignment, Storyline, Enemy Group...and as you say...

 

Players could use the TP to new contact feature to start a new storyline.

 

I think you've concisely hit the nail on the head.  

 

And yes.  Byepassing the need to unlock older contacts so that the whole team can be on the 'same' page.  

 

Playing as a DUO, my DUO partner and myself get out of lock step...and it can be somewhat irksome to stay in sync/unlock the contacts.   Suddenly I can't access them...but they can.  etc.

 

Any chance Captain Powerhouse or one of the HC devs could chime in on this idea?  Would this kind of idea be 'a lot of work?'  Or?  Can it be done?

 

Azrael.

[Tath99]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:07 PM, Grouchybeast said:

It would be great to repurpose/expand the contacts window to make content more accessible.  Contacts could be put in thematic groups (origin, zone, AT, alignment, storyline, enemy group etc) and the players could use the TP to new contact feature to start a storyline.

 

It would also be nice to be able to use this to bypass the need to unlock the older contacts.  If you're trying to coordinate two or more players playing through the same content, it can be annoying trying to coordinate unlocking the contacts.

I would echo this excellent suggestion.

 

Contacts added to >>> Contact Window.

Contacts added thematically to >>>  Ouroboros.

 

It is my understanding and recollection that only a limited number of arcs were made accessible through Ouroboros -- a balance of Blue / Red / Praetorian arcs -- due to technical / time limitations facing the live developers.

 

If these limitations exists, perhaps they were limited by the tech of the day -- perhaps there is scope to increase the capacity of the Contact & Ouroboros systems?

 

-- Tath99.

[Grouchybeast]

3 minutes ago, Tath99 said:

It is my understanding and recollection that only a limited number of arcs were made accessible through Ouroboros -- a balance of Blue / Red / Praetorian arcs -- due to technical / time limitations facing the live developers.

Pretty much all the story arcs are already in Ouro.  Most were added on live, and I think a few more have been added since by packaging up collections of stories from contacts who didn't have real arcs.

 

I think there might be a small number of missions still not in Ouro, mostly the 'go talk to the security officer for [x]' missions, or other single non-badge missions from the older contacts.

[krj12]

I think the best solution, short of re-architecting the entire system, is to just make every enemy group scale up to 50 and make it so you cant outlevel contacts.   You may get to 50 before you can do all the content, but that's better than what we currently have.

Edited August 26, 2020 by krj12

[Grouchybeast]

51 minutes ago, krj12 said:

I think the best solution, short of re-architecting the entire system, is to just make every enemy group scale up to 50 and make it so you cant outlevel contacts.   You may get to 50 before you can do all the content, but that's better than what we currently have.

'Just' doing that would require rebalancing all the enemy groups which don't already span the required levels.  I'm not sure it's a given that it would be less work than other potential solutions.

[Apparition]

4 hours ago, krj12 said:

I think the best solution, short of re-architecting the entire system, is to just make every enemy group scale up to 50 and make it so you cant outlevel contacts.   You may get to 50 before you can do all the content, but that's better than what we currently have.

That is what the Thunderspy server did.  It works well.

[srmalloy]

51 minutes ago, Apparition said:

That is what the Thunderspy server did.  It works well.

Given that just letting the mob level increase doesn't change the mob's abilities -- an Outcast (normal cap 20) won't have the variety of attacks and defenses when scaled to 50 that a level-50 character would have -- I would say that scaling them to 50 works, not that it works well. Low-level mobs scaled to 50 are going to be significantly less of a challenge than mobs built to be level 50.

[Lines]

For me, that would also need to come with some new challenge settings. I don't find regular-style content at 50 all that fun with the rapid pace, so it would be pretty sad if the entire game was adjusted for higher levels.

 

Thunderspy has done some really cool, fun stuff, but the sandbox approach isn't for me.

[krj12]

I think something would have to be done similar to what was done for the Lost and the Rikti - the Lost are essentially low level equivalents of Rikti mobs, and have similar names and abilities.

If you wait to do the Midnighter arc at higher levels, you'll see that they're switched out.

 

Maybe for every low level group, they could generate a new set of higher level mobs with more abilities - doesn't even necessarily require new skins or models.   A lot of work for sure, and definitely debatable as to whether it's worth it.    i would love to see it implemented for some groups, who wouldn't love to go back to Croatoa and fight them at level 50?

 

 

[MTeague]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:51 AM, krj12 said:

I think the best solution, short of re-architecting the entire system, is to just make every enemy group scale up to 50 and make it so you cant outlevel contacts.   You may get to 50 before you can do all the content, but that's better than what we currently have.

If this happens, City of Heroes will immediately become a single player game for me. 

Because I loathe the 45+ "everything is incarnate" content.

 

When the entire team has T4 Barrier and just rotates it's use.

When every spawn dies to a Judgement and 1-2 other AE attacks.

When anything remotely challanging is steamrolled by a flood of Lore pets

I fall asleep.

 

And if everything scales up to 50, it won't be long before everyone EXPECTS you to want to do all content at lvl 50, and would cry foul at the thought of exemplaring down again, ever again.

 

I would never even bother try to team again because it would be frustration city.

[Golden Azrael]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:08 PM, Apparition said:

That is what the Thunderspy server did.  It works well.

Thunderspy have made it like in WoW where you can go to early or 'late' contacts in the game and still access the contact?

 

That's cool if so.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Stature_Levels

 

I've just been reading up on missions, arcs, contacts etc.  And I particularly like the table of origins above.  If the Oro could organise the content according to Origin type...(and for the love of god...at least including the contact name next to the picture... 😛 )

 

That would be a massive help for those that just want to follow a 'non-broken origin contact because you outlevelled it.'  

 

I have to say.  I love the game.  But it's been frustrating trying to follow Origin contacts through the game when they refuse to speak because you out levelled them...at least offer the next Origin contact who may be higher! 😉

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

7 hours ago, MTeague said:

If this happens, City of Heroes will immediately become a single player game for me. 

Because I loathe the 45+ "everything is incarnate" content.

 

When the entire team has T4 Barrier and just rotates it's use.

When every spawn dies to a Judgement and 1-2 other AE attacks.

When anything remotely challanging is steamrolled by a flood of Lore pets

I fall asleep.

 

And if everything scales up to 50, it won't be long before everyone EXPECTS you to want to do all content at lvl 50, and would cry foul at the thought of exemplaring down again, ever again.

 

I would never even bother try to team again because it would be frustration city.

I see what you're saying.  And the 'this is how we roll' teams is certainly a 'choice.'  (I prefer DUO-ing myself...)

 

But currently, a lot of content is wasted or bypassed.  

 

At the least the content needs to be packaged better to allow progression via Origin, AT or Mob type.  

 

We have the 'find contact' system.  But it seems rather random to me at the moment.  If I select Natural Origin.  It would be nice to have that more tailored route through the game.  So if I roll say, a Magic Origin next time?  I can follow 'that' route through the game.

 

The content is there.  But I think a lot of it gets bypassed.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:43 PM, Tath99 said:

 

 

If these limitations exists, perhaps they were limited by the tech of the day -- perhaps there is scope to increase the capacity of the Contact & Ouroboros systems?

 

-- Tath99.

Option 1.

 

I think sticking the Name of the contact and the origin type 😛 would be a simple but effective solution.  

 

*Programmer.  Opens up the Dev Tools.  Opens up the Oro text field for missions.  Types name under picture of contact and the origin type.

 

Simple?  

 

Option 2.  (Probably a bit of coding?)

 

Player opens Oro window.

 

Selects Origin tab.  Natural...Magic...Tech' etc.  Select one.  

 

It then only shows mission level range (contact NAMES!) arcs for your origin.

 

Content is there.  Just needs to be packaged better.

 

Azrael.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

"A hero can not get more than one contact from an origin's stature level group."

 

So...you can't get more than one origin contact per level range?

 

So you have to pad it out with 'other' eg. zone mission arcs like Wilcott in the Hollows?  Or Tremlor in Faultline?  Or with TFs?

 

As one 'Origin' contact wouldn't be enough to get you through a 5 level bracket.

 

Azrael.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Ill be honest, this feels abit like a mountain being made from a mole hill situation. Now sadly the share xp between 2 chars thing hasnt been brought back on HC, which does make keeping a duo truly in sync harder. But it really is a non issue. The sidekick/exemplar system( one of cohs greatest and most unique strengths btw) already makes sure you two can always be in team with no issue. And really there is no different between doing an arc together via flashback. If your really only playing together when each other are on with the toons, then even having to break mid flashback shouldnt be much of a hassle.

 

While they did experiment with AT specific arcs with the Epic ATs, even those are not full story paths to level through unless one is really upping the dif and running an xp booster perhaps.

 

Now I frankly favor Praetoria as a start for duo teams. Its content and setting really lend itself to having at least 1 partner watching your back imo.

 

And finally you dont seem to notice how what you ask for even as a choice could hurt the game especially for new players. Putting them on a path that would be the same for every character of an AT, or origin might sound like a good idea in theory. But in practice more then likely wouldnt get used more then once for each path for players thinking it might contain unique content like the personal story stuff in SWTOR. Only to eventually learn that the game is actually meant to be played choose your own adventure and build a collection of personal clues in order to show that unique characters path through the content.

 

You also seem to be making the fundamental mistake many do that Natural as an example implies Batman more then say Superman. When in fact it is superman that is the Natural, and Batman would be science, as even refined martial arts qualifies as the science of fighting. So what you would define as Natural origin game factions might not always be what the game would. Peace Bringer PD for example are naturals, yet would concept wise be quite a cosmic class foe to the average pugilist who normally punches weapon wielding warriors.

 

This issue ofcourse can also be tackled via lore based RP concepts for ones character. For example my forum handle's in game foe focuses are in order of how long he has been dealing with them, the Nictus,Nemesis,Circle of Thorns,5th Column, Council as far as primal Earth threats go. There are also all things shadow shard, and midnighter related. Every bit of content involving these foe groups being a part of my characters history adds to my personal enjoyment when fighting them, and makes any content with them feel almost made for him. Some really does. Nothing quite like running the path of Darkness and being told to go find myself. Who knew this game was so introspective;) This in fact is the main drive behind lore based RP in general, to become so integrated into the game world, that it often feels like your character really is part of it.

[Wild Claw]

22 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

"A hero can not get more than one contact from an origin's stature level group."

 

So...you can't get more than one origin contact per level range?

 

So you have to pad it out with 'other' eg. zone mission arcs like Wilcott in the Hollows?  Or Tremlor in Faultline?  Or with TFs?

 

As one 'Origin' contact wouldn't be enough to get you through a 5 level bracket.

 

Azrael.

What I think this is referring to is that there are contacts that offer the exact same missions because they are the same Origin in the same level range, and you normally only get access to one of them. For example, in the level range 05-09, Rachel Torres, Detective Joe Brogan, and Vic Johansson are all Natural Origin contacts with the same missions on offer. When I took my main through the missions, I got introduced to Rachel Torres, and the other two wouldn't talk to me.

 

In that same level range (Genevieve Sanders, Laurence Mansfield, Paco Sanchez) are Magic, (Henry Peter Wong, Kip Cantorum, Samuel Pierce) are Science, (Juan Jimenez, Linda Summers, Ron Hughes) are Mutation, (Maurice Feldon, Paula Dempsey, Tony Kord) are Technology. Each character can get one contact in each origin 'set'. So that same main got Paco Sanchez, Henry Peter Wong, Ron Hughes, and Tony Kord. 

 

So far, soloing that main, I have to regularly shut of XP in order to do all the missions from just the contacts without outleveling them, not even considering TFs and other content. 

[Golden Azrael]

On 8/28/2020 at 3:05 PM, Wild Claw said:

What I think this is referring to is that there are contacts that offer the exact same missions because they are the same Origin in the same level range, and you normally only get access to one of them. For example, in the level range 05-09, Rachel Torres, Detective Joe Brogan, and Vic Johansson are all Natural Origin contacts with the same missions on offer. When I took my main through the missions, I got introduced to Rachel Torres, and the other two wouldn't talk to me.

 

In that same level range (Genevieve Sanders, Laurence Mansfield, Paco Sanchez) are Magic, (Henry Peter Wong, Kip Cantorum, Samuel Pierce) are Science, (Juan Jimenez, Linda Summers, Ron Hughes) are Mutation, (Maurice Feldon, Paula Dempsey, Tony Kord) are Technology. Each character can get one contact in each origin 'set'. So that same main got Paco Sanchez, Henry Peter Wong, Ron Hughes, and Tony Kord. 

 

So far, soloing that main, I have to regularly shut of XP in order to do all the missions from just the contacts without outleveling them, not even considering TFs and other content. 

Certainly, giving the HC wiki contacts info page a read gave me an understanding of the different types of contacts and how the progression and mission content is organised.  (Though this wasn't ever explicitly apparent.  Just...'oh...I can't speak to this contact any more...uh...ok...guess I've out levelled him...)

 

So, I can see the merit of shutting off xp if you want to finish the contact without out levelling them.  A touch frustrating.  Hey...it won't let me finish the contact arc...and I had one mission to go...etc.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 8/28/2020 at 2:54 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Ill be honest, this feels abit like a mountain being made from a mole hill situation. Now sadly the share xp between 2 chars thing hasnt been brought back on HC, which does make keeping a duo truly in sync harder. But it really is a non issue. The sidekick/exemplar system( one of cohs greatest and most unique strengths btw) already makes sure you two can always be in team with no issue. And really there is no different between doing an arc together via flashback. If your really only playing together when each other are on with the toons, then even having to break mid flashback shouldnt be much of a hassle.

 

While they did experiment with AT specific arcs with the Epic ATs, even those are not full story paths to level through unless one is really upping the dif and running an xp booster perhaps.

 

Now I frankly favor Praetoria as a start for duo teams. Its content and setting really lend itself to having at least 1 partner watching your back imo.

 

And finally you dont seem to notice how what you ask for even as a choice could hurt the game especially for new players. Putting them on a path that would be the same for every character of an AT, or origin might sound like a good idea in theory. But in practice more then likely wouldnt get used more then once for each path for players thinking it might contain unique content like the personal story stuff in SWTOR. Only to eventually learn that the game is actually meant to be played choose your own adventure and build a collection of personal clues in order to show that unique characters path through the content.

 

You also seem to be making the fundamental mistake many do that Natural as an example implies Batman more then say Superman. When in fact it is superman that is the Natural, and Batman would be science, as even refined martial arts qualifies as the science of fighting. So what you would define as Natural origin game factions might not always be what the game would. Peace Bringer PD for example are naturals, yet would concept wise be quite a cosmic class foe to the average pugilist who normally punches weapon wielding warriors.

 

This issue ofcourse can also be tackled via lore based RP concepts for ones character. For example my forum handle's in game foe focuses are in order of how long he has been dealing with them, the Nictus,Nemesis,Circle of Thorns,5th Column, Council as far as primal Earth threats go. There are also all things shadow shard, and midnighter related. Every bit of content involving these foe groups being a part of my characters history adds to my personal enjoyment when fighting them, and makes any content with them feel almost made for him. Some really does. Nothing quite like running the path of Darkness and being told to go find myself. Who knew this game was so introspective;) This in fact is the main drive behind lore based RP in general, to become so integrated into the game world, that it often feels like your character really is part of it.

RP is good.

 

It just a case of how you can construct that arc.  Or package up the content.  A lot is by-passed and wasted because of the current design.

 

My duo partner and I have taken to doing the Oro so we can share the merits and do the same contact.

 

I don't think it would be 'that hard' to put the names and origin type to the picture of each Oro mission.  Jeeze.  You have to look at the HC wiki to find out who they are...

 

'...uh...mm...this face...is...looks...tabs back and forwards...is it him...no...him?'  

 

Unless I'm missing something.

 

Having an Origin patch to package up the mission content is an option.

 

Just like the random choices that can be made from the game 'seemingly' randomly given you contacts.

 

It's telling that you need a wiki to understand all the different types of contacts and their arcs.  Is it part of your origin?  Or is it a zone specific contact.

 

Having an extra option doesn't have to break the current choice.  It can add to it.

 

Like following someone's build.  Or just making the build as you play along.

 

Yes.  You can argue that Superman is 'natural' (don't let my Duo Partner here you say that...) but to all intents and purposes he's a 'Superhero' and 'Batman' is just a naturally trained guy with a halloween suit on.  And we know what mean by Magic, Science, Tech' (yeah...Iron Man is 'natural...' he's just a guy in a suit...) etc.

 

Having explicit Origin paths would smarten things up abit.  I find the 'same' random experience can seem 'same.'

 

I'll take your point about Praetoria.  My duo partner and I have done it a bit and enjoyed it.  Play testing on the missions by the original devs could have been better here and there.  But it's interesting if somewhat 1 dimensional.  I prefer the CoH setting, if I'm honest.

 

I miss the Pact system.  But now I've finally wrapped my head around Oro' and how the mission system actually works.  The nearest thing to a Pact system is just dong the Oro content (and use the Wiki system to decode who the contacts are to follow your 'Origin.'

 

Just a shame the Oro' stuff doesn't have a contact name and origin status under their picture.  (Really?  Who is this guy...he looks familiar...goes hunting through the wiki...)

 

Azrael.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

RP is good.

 

It just a case of how you can construct that arc.  Or package up the content.  A lot is by-passed and wasted because of the current design.

 

My duo partner and I have taken to doing the Oro so we can share the merits and do the same contact.

 

I don't think it would be 'that hard' to put the names and origin type to the picture of each Oro mission.  Jeeze.  You have to look at the HC wiki to find out who they are...

 

'...uh...mm...this face...is...looks...tabs back and forwards...is it him...no...him?'  

 

Unless I'm missing something.

 

Having an Origin patch to package up the mission content is an option.

 

Just like the random choices that can be made from the game 'seemingly' randomly given you contacts.

 

It's telling that you need a wiki to understand all the different types of contacts and their arcs.  Is it part of your origin?  Or is it a zone specific contact.

 

Having an extra option doesn't have to break the current choice.  It can add to it.

 

Like following someone's build.  Or just making the build as you play along.

 

Yes.  You can argue that Superman is 'natural' (don't let my Duo Partner here you say that...) but to all intents and purposes he's a 'Superhero' and 'Batman' is just a naturally trained guy with a halloween suit on.  And we know what mean by Magic, Science, Tech' (yeah...Iron Man is 'natural...' he's just a guy in a suit...) etc.

 

Having explicit Origin paths would smarten things up abit.  I find the 'same' random experience can seem 'same.'

 

I'll take your point about Praetoria.  My duo partner and I have done it a bit and enjoyed it.  Play testing on the missions by the original devs could have been better here and there.  But it's interesting if somewhat 1 dimensional.  I prefer the CoH setting, if I'm honest.

 

I miss the Pact system.  But now I've finally wrapped my head around Oro' and how the mission system actually works.  The nearest thing to a Pact system is just dong the Oro content (and use the Wiki system to decode who the contacts are to follow your 'Origin.'

 

Just a shame the Oro' stuff doesn't have a contact name and origin status under their picture.  (Really?  Who is this guy...he looks familiar...goes hunting through the wiki...)

 

Azrael.

Look forget superman, keep it in game and lets talk kheldian. A peacebringer is a natural because it is as it was at the moment of its "birth" into being. A warshade is science because they are kheldians that used science to manipulate their natural state into something different. And nope, any martial arts masters is not a natural, they are a science. Martial arts are a science, there is no one who naturally knows these highly refined and advanced fighting forms. Even western boxing and wrestling styles meet this definition. The same is true of those who master weapons. They are a mixture of the science tech to create swords, and the science of martial sword forms to master the weapon, though such objects can also easily be imbued with magic and thus empower their wielder rather and in ways making the bearer more of a host and tool of the magic.

 

I also think you are taking the whole arc/contact thing from a bad angle. Look up the arc by its name, and then see who the contacts for it are, as long as one is natural, then that is all that should matter for your needs. Plenty of arcs use contacts of different origins, usually overlapping much how DO enhancements are paired up.

 

The truth is though there really is no group that meets your wants fully. Every group in Paragon has at least their toe dipped in the pool of real Power. The Warriors dabble in magic and hell more thena  few likely take a little "dyne", maybe even eventually migrating to the Trolls. All the low end gangs have Powers. The Skulls,hellions, outcasts,trolls, council, so on and so on. And really would not be groups most with no Powers would want to be taking on often. Even Batman after his breaking by Bane in internal monologue admitted to himself that he had over reached and pushed himself too far trying to take on a super soldier like Bane when he at their first meeting witnessed Banes massively superior physical ability, and should of just called Clark in for 5 seconds from across the Bay.

 

And even dabbling in Power tends to have a lasting effect in Cohverse. Using a magic item is likely to trigger latent mu genes, or mark one in such a way that those with real magic can forever track them with ease. Using something like Dyne even once can alter one to the very fabric of reality, and make themselves noticed by those beings that exist on the fringes of what we call reality.

 

Finally unless you guys intend to not go incarnate, well the game turns those who do in concept and game lore, into actual god like cosmic beings. Chosen of the gods at the least. Now my own Batman homage the Black Flying Fox does not do the incarnate thing specifically because he is my concept build of a mortal man in CoH. He does have limits as to what he can do solo or even duo because of these build limits among them intentional fragility.

 

Speaking of for me, that really is the biggest need in any "mortal" human build. If you have enough defense your mere human is dodging all gun fire, and enough dmg res they can stand in lava, then they are not normal human builds imo.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Also something you just do not seem to be getting nor really responding with any clearer of an idea is what would an AT specific path even mean for ATs? Aside from PB, WS etc there is no idea of what even would be in this game. What would a scrapper path even mean? A blaster? Mobs are not designed with specific ATs in mind. Unless you are like suggesting that there would be mobs on a path for a blaster for example that wouldnt use CC etc, so that only those ATs with the ability to negate a mobs abilities would be encountered. That sounds a lot like fire farming imo though.