Defense question on dual types.

[Dahkness]

This is just an example. I also wonder about melee/smashing attacks as well.

When a power says: Ranged, DMG (fire)
 does this mean my rang DEF and my fire DEF work together to block this from hitting me? Or does it take from the highest of the 2 defenses?

Or is it better to just have one of the 2 at 45%
Thank you!

Edited September 9, 2020 by Hops

[Omega-202]

7 minutes ago, Hops said:

This is just an example. I also wonder about melee/smashing attacks as well.

When a power says: Ranged, DMG (fire)
 does this mean my rang DEF and my fire DEF work together to block this from hitting me? Or does it take from the highest of the 2 defenses?

Or is it better to just have one of the 2 at 45%
Thank you!

It takes from the highest of the two.  If you have 45% ranged and 30% fire defense, the attack roll will be calculated based on the 45%.

 

That's why its often ok to have holes in your overall defensive coverage.  If you have 45% S/L defense but only 20% melee defense, you're usually going to be fine because a lot of melee attacks have some smashing or lethal component.  For example, Charged Brawl from a Freakshow Stunner is tagged Melee, Energy and Smashing, so if your highest defense is Smashing, it ignores the Energy and Melee part and just calculates it based on Smashing.  

Edited September 9, 2020 by Omega-202

[Dahkness]

Thank you sooo much for clearing this up for me. 

[Hyperstrike]

This is why any sort of Defense you get is a Good thing.
Almost all attacks are both typed and vectored/positional.

So seeing pure Psi or Pure Toxic attacks is rare.  And even if you don't have any Toxic or Psi Defense, you'll still be covered (somewhat) by your positional Defenses.  As they should ALSO be flagged Melee/Ranged/AoE.  And even if they're not GREAT Defense numbers, they're still better than NONE.

[Uun]

30 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

So seeing pure Psi or Pure Toxic attacks is rare.  And even if you don't have any Toxic or Psi Defense, you'll still be covered (somewhat) by your positional Defenses. 

Note, there is no Toxic typed defense in the game. Also, there are some attacks that are Psi typed with no positional aspect and will therefore bypass your positional defenses.

[MTeague]

7 minutes ago, Uun said:

Note, there is no Toxic typed defense in the game. Also, there are some attacks that are Psi typed with no positional aspect and will therefore bypass your positional defenses.

Pure toxic without a positional component is extremely rare (if it exists at all)

Psi attacks without a positional component are both a) rare, and b) usually non-damaging... CC like Terrorize or Sleep, etc

 

but it is worth noting the word "usually". 

The Awakened in First Ward, for example, have some brutal auto-hit Psionic damage.  They can do terrible, awful, things to you if you're not built for it. 

[Omega-202]

32 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Pure toxic without a positional component is extremely rare (if it exists at all)

Psi attacks without a positional component are both a) rare, and b) usually non-damaging... CC like Terrorize or Sleep, etc

 

but it is worth noting the word "usually". 

The Awakened in First Ward, for example, have some brutal auto-hit Psionic damage.  They can do terrible, awful, things to you if you're not built for it. 

There's a random Hydra attack that is non-positional toxic, but for the life of me I don't remeber which or if it still is or if I'm remembering something from back in the stone age.  But then again how often are Hydras even relevant?  

[Hyperstrike]

28 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

There's a random Hydra attack that is non-positional toxic, but for the life of me I don't remeber which or if it still is or if I'm remembering something from back in the stone age.  But then again how often are Hydras even relevant?  

#DoYouEvenHydra?

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, Hyperstrike said:

#DoYouEvenHydra?

Only when I freight train throught the KR sewers during Apex.  What even is the point of that part of the mission? 

 

"Oh no Praetorian Invasion! Let's cut through the sewers and punch som Rikti and poo monsters on our way through"

[Black Zot]

43 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Only when I freight train throught the KR sewers during Apex.  What even is the point of that part of the mission? 

 

"Oh no Praetorian Invasion! Let's cut through the sewers and punch som Rikti and poo monsters on our way through"

 

Kinda like the Lady Grey TF, which is written like a cheap excuse to pit you against as many enemy groups as possible regardless of logic.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

Kinda like the Lady Grey TF, which is written like a cheap excuse to pit you against as many enemy groups as possible regardless of logic.

Hero: Eff it!  I'm kickin' EVERYONE'S ASS!

[Hew]

11 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

HeroOne: Eff it!  I'm kickin' EVERYONE'S ASS!

 

[Shred Monkey]

Just going to add, I find that a combination of smash/lethal and ranged defense covers almost everything.  Plus, given that many classes have access to scorpion shield in their epic pools which gives smashing/lethal and energy defense, and the fact that there's an overlap between ranged and energy defense in IO set bonuses, it's pretty easy to add a ton of energy defense for free to a lot of builds.  This is great given that Energy is the most common damage type after smashing and lethal.

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

Plus, given that many classes have access to scorpion shield in their epic pools which gives smashing/lethal and energy defense, and the fact that there's an overlap between ranged and energy defense

Ackshually...

No.  It doesn't.

Scorpion Shield is one of those edge-cases that is SOLELY Typed Defense.  There is no Positional component in the power. AT ALL.
So you get no Melee/Ranged/AoE Defense out of the power.
Please keep this in mind on a Positional-Centric Defense build.

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Ackshually...

No.  It doesn't.

Scorpion Shield is one of those edge-cases that is SOLELY Typed Defense.  There is no Positional component in the power. AT ALL.
So you get no Melee/Ranged/AoE Defense out of the power.
Please keep this in mind on a Positional-Centric Defense build.

That's not what they were saying.  Go back and read the post you quoted in full.  They said there's overlap between Ranged and Energy in IO bonuses.  

[Shred Monkey]

11 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Ackshually...

No.  It doesn't.

Scorpion Shield is one of those edge-cases that is SOLELY Typed Defense.  There is no Positional component in the power. AT ALL.
So you get no Melee/Ranged/AoE Defense out of the power.
Please keep this in mind on a Positional-Centric Defense build.

What I meant with my statement is that getting very high ranged defense from IO sets gives energy defense.   Plus using scorpion shield to get smash/lethal also gives energy defense.  Therefore, if you are going for smash/lethal (using scorpion shield) and ranged (using IO sets) you will get good energy as well.

[MunkiLord]

12 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Just going to add, I find that a combination of smash/lethal and ranged defense covers almost everything.  Plus, given that many classes have access to scorpion shield in their epic pools which gives smashing/lethal and energy defense, and the fact that there's an overlap between ranged and energy defense in IO set bonuses, it's pretty easy to add a ton of energy defense for free to a lot of builds.  This is great given that Energy is the most common damage type after smashing and lethal.

 

 

This is solid advice. My Dark/Earth Dom went for softcap S/L and high ranged and I ended up with very high energy defenses as well. Most of my Blasters use this build strategy as well.

[Uun]

20 hours ago, MTeague said:

Pure toxic without a positional component is extremely rare (if it exists at all)

Psi attacks without a positional component are both a) rare, and b) usually non-damaging... CC like Terrorize or Sleep, etc

 

but it is worth noting the word "usually". 

The Awakened in First Ward, for example, have some brutal auto-hit Psionic damage.  They can do terrible, awful, things to you if you're not built for it. 

I believe that Mother Mayhem (or some version of her) has damaging non-positional psi attacks. Not sure about Malaise. I seem to recall that the Rikti used to have them but not sure if that's still the case.

[Riverdusk]

On 9/10/2020 at 8:17 AM, Uun said:

I believe that Mother Mayhem (or some version of her) has damaging non-positional psi attacks. Not sure about Malaise. I seem to recall that the Rikti used to have them but not sure if that's still the case.

Yep, I'd say I'm pretty sure Malaise does.  I definitely remember him beating up my super reflexes character pretty good until I realized what was probably happening.  But not hard to pack a few purple inspirations to get the psi defense up for those rare times.

[Uun]

20 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Yep, I'd say I'm pretty sure Malaise does.  I definitely remember him beating up my super reflexes character pretty good until I realized what was probably happening.  But not hard to pack a few purple inspirations to get the psi defense up for those rare times.

This is when you use the Elusive Mind accolade.