Focused Feedback: Trick Arrow Revamp

[arkieboy72472]

My 2 cents on slotting:

 

So, given the powers stay how they are, what is effecting slotting? Well, until procs are nerfed (unless they already are) one of the great things about TA is that powers in it either require minimal slotting to be successful or allow for tons of customization and proc slotting. I am not trying to insult anyones intelligence. I am just listing what I have been using for slotting, giving trick arrow more tricks:

 

T1) Entangle - Since immob set bonuses are not that good, and this accepts a slow, you can fit the 1 slow damage proc, 1 immob damage proc, and maybe one Acc or Acc/immob from one of the sets. 3 slots max

 

T2) Flash - I feel that a 4 slot from Accurate tohit debuff for that 6.25% recharge is probably the best course here. Take the proc also for extra occasional damage.

 

T3) Glue - A couple of generic slows or one with a slow/range, and a generic recharge. 3 slots max. Slow sets have crappy set bonuses unless you 6 slot it and this doesn't need that. Save your slots for your secondary. No need for a proc here, although slow does have a damage proc.

 

T4) Ice - While a 4 slot of basiliks for 7.5% recharge sounds good, you can 5 slot this with damage procs and usually hit for 250 on up. This is what I did. Between holds and slows you get access to 5 different procs. If you want the 7.5% recharge I can see that also. Note that this is a non-damage power, which becomes a heavy hitter with procs.

 

T5) Poison - slotting this for sleep is a waste. The only good proc is one for a self heal. Not much can be done to improve this. 1 single slot and the proc or enhancement of your choice. Note: you can stick a placate proc in here to Obi Wan hand wave whoever it hits. Sleep has a few decent set bonuses.

 

T6) Acid - This is an easy 6 slot power. It takes 2 damage procs from defense debuff and accurate def debuff. It takes the -res debuff, AND it takes 3 damage procs and another -res debuff from TAoE. If you want oil slick lit, this power does that for you now. 6 procs, plus the added effected area of it make it and oil slick the gems of the set.

 

T7) Disruption - again, not much you can do. The duration is long enough. I don't think it can stack. 1 slot only End Dedux. recharge slotting is ok also, but not needed at all.

 

T8) Oil Slick - SO MUCH ROOM FOR ACTIVITIES!!! Definite 6 slot. Here is what I do. 1 Acc. Heel for -res before it is lit, 1 Decimation -res Afterwards, 3 Defender ATO for that 10% recharge (once purple) picking the 3 with the most damage and recharge, and 1 ragnaroc dam/rech. The idea is that you want this up as much as possible and with as much damage as possible. You can full it full of procs (and it takes a lot!) but you will miss out of so much. When the -res hits, it is noticeable. You can easily go from single digit to double digit damage tics. Nuke level for sure. Note that by splitting the DEF ATO set, you can put the other 3 on your T1 blast for another 10% recharge (snap shot - and it gets the crappy proc also)

 

T9) EMP - While endurance and hold has tons of nice set bonuses, and you will have lots of slots, this power may or may not be worth enhancing the end portion of it. While it is good as is, the hold is mediocre at best. You can cram 4 basilics in it for more recharge, or do like I did at first and jam in some hold procs. This powers slotting is kinda uncertain. You can even make it a heal power by shoving a chance for heal in it. The final state of this power will decide whether you throw procs in it or not and which ones. The +2 mag hold proc in it makes sense since the powers hold can't be trusted anymore. The power is good as is and any buffs it gives are great as is. No need in doing much to it unless you chase a specific set bonus, likely recharge or ranged defense. 5 slots at the most but you have lots of leeway room with this. 

 

You can go for set bonuses here or use your saved slots to really slot up your blast set. I would aim for about 100% global recharge before hasten. In my build I also look for ranged defense anywhere I can. All of those procs won't fire all of the time, but when they do, the damage adds up. Every power is worthwhile now. If you add extra IO's, consider end redux and Acc if needed. All of these extra slots also allow you to really slot up your blasts and stuff like tough, weave, and temp invulnerable. You can really maximize your blast set, add procs to it also, or load up on as much damage resistance and defense as you can find.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by arkieboy72472

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, arkieboy72472 said:

T2) Flash - I feel that a 4 slot from Accurate tohit debuff for that 6.25% recharge is probably the best course here. Take the proc also for extra occasional damage.

Unless it's changing flash is auto hit in pve. 4 DWD is best in it imo to max the -to hit and also you don't want procs as they would notify the mobs, wasting its ability to cast on nearby mobs to avoid detection.

Edited November 3, 2020 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, arkieboy72472 said:

T3) Glue - A couple of generic slows or one with a slow/range, and a generic recharge. 3 slots max. Slow sets have crappy set bonuses unless you 6 slot it and this doesn't need that. Save your slots for your secondary. No need for a proc here, although slow does have a damage proc.

I really wish they would redo the slow sets. To start i usually do a range/slow and end/rech/slow from temp readiness for some stats and 1.5% recovery for 2 slots, then more if you want more stats.

 

One of the worst parts IMO of slow sets is how they have damage stats in them, but low end, rech, and acc stats, and the set bonuses suck.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Now, the buff is much stronger and the patch lasts a lot longer precisely aimed at the player not having to be spamming the power to get maximum potential out of the power.

However keep in mind that lasting longer does nothing when the patch is not able to be placed where you need it if it was reverted to target based.

 

Even in the simple situation of targetting the nearest enemy in the mob, versus being able to manually place it just touching the mob in between you, means that you're losing half of its radius of impact if you're actually using its slow for crowd control (minus the tic time to interact as enemies run into it of course).

 

At either rate *if* it was to be reverted to live target based, I would easily request it be able to be cast on flying enemies and simply drop (explode) from the targets location.

[arkieboy72472]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Unless it's changing flash is auto hit in pve. 4 DWD is best in it imo to max the -to hit and also you don't want procs as they would notify the mobs, wasting its ability to cast on nearby mobs to avoid detection.

Truth. If it is autohit, you are correct. Same for the proc info. Good Looking out.

[arkieboy72472]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

I really wish they would redo the slow sets. To start i usually do a range/slow and end/rech/slow from temp readiness for some stats and 1.5% recovery for 2 slots, then more if you want more stats.

 

One of the worst parts IMO of slow sets is how they have damage stats in them, but low end, rech, and acc stats, and the set bonuses suck.

About half the IO sets are garbage and never used. A few, like slow and imobilize, have crap set bonuses not worth it. The cool thing about trick arrow now is that half the powers are good out of the box with minimal slotting. The bad is that only a couple powers can actually be improved in a meaningful matter.

[Golden Azrael]

Gas seemed to work better as a 'choke' interrupt rather than a 'wake up from' power.  Maybe it's my imagination.  An arrow version of Rad's Choking interrupt?  I always did like dat.

 

The new EMP is a work of beauty.  Not sure about the 'place' mat activation.  I liked shooting at the mob.  More direct.  And maybe the old graphical effect better.  (Though it was underwhelming.)  It's a muted 'stop dead' electrical effect.  I@ve come to appreciate it though.

 

Where I would put that graphical effect?

 

Disruption Arrow.  The pulsing grey rainbow gives me a headache.  In fact, I avoided taking Disruption Arrow for this reason.  Ironically, it's EMP that gets it's graphics changed.

 

Any chance of moving the EMP graphic over to Disruption Arrow?  Or using the same 'half dome' effect but with eg. a blue or orange colour for Disruption?  The pulsing effect is hard going on the eyes.  To the point where I avoid Long Bow mission now.  And I can't take the disruption power either.  In fact, didn't the Sonic devs change the grey pulses to something orange and less eye/head ache inducing effect back on live coh following complaints from players for that set on a few of the powers within?

 

Played (and currently) and playing TA/Arrows extensively on live HC.  And I guess I'll feel the 'changes' better when it comes across to my 'build.'  I've got to L50 and broadly, I support the changes made.  TA did need a 'brush over.'

 

It seems to play very nice TA.  Under rated set even as it is.

 

But it's good that HC are listening to player feedback to make it more appealing.

 

Entangle.  - res.  Is good.  But as is, I found it very effective at ensnaring AVs and making them pause for thought.

EMP.  I like the new buff capability.  And the loss of the aweful - end cratering for a yawn inducing 15 secs.  Much, much better.  Do I like the new graphical effect better than the old?  And the new 'place mat?'  Not so much.  I guess it shows 'where' the effect is taking place for 'longer.'

Disruption.  Could do with swiping the new graphic effect from EMP rather than the pulsing migraine.  

 

Broadly, the changes are very good.  MoAR -res' and an EMP that buffs are show stealers.  Acid is more exotic with it's debuffing.  Are we keeping the - res in it though?  *bats eyelids. Powers are lasting longer so the TA trickster doesn't have to peddle quite as hard for their subtle endeavours.

 

The rest?  Is very good.  And thoughtful.  Like the TA set itself.  Which is thoughtful layering upon layers of debuff to entangle mobs.  Finesse rather than brute force?

 

Azrael.

[Wavicle]

On 11/2/2020 at 11:43 AM, Luminara said:

Point.

 

None of the other defender primaries deal significant damage, nor "modest damage over time", nor are categorized as attacks.  They're all buffs, debuffs, or controls (hard or soft), not attacks.

Looks like it's Gale and Caltrops only.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Looks like it's Gale and Caltrops only.

 

Caltrops is T2.  The commentary was about T1 powers, which aren't optional for three of the four archetypes with access.

[Hew]

Can TA function in any way similar to Traps? I ask, because I can do some stupid stuff (i27 style) in a fast moving team with traps, but don't like the stupid slow moving ff generator (which is better in theory than practice).

 

I am looking specifically for chaos causers like caltrops and poison trap which cause the mobs to panic instead of nuke you with an alpha strike. I think, but am not sure, oil slick will do this?

 

Thanks!

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Hew

[Luminara]

9 minutes ago, Hew said:

Can TA function in any way similar to Traps? I ask, because I can do some stupid stuff (i27 style) in a fast moving team with traps, but don't like the stupid slow moving ff generator (which is better in theory than practice).

 

I am looking specifically for chaos causers like caltrops and poison trap which cause the mobs to panic instead of nuke you with an alpha strike. I think, but am not sure, oil slick will do this?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Yes, OSA causes critters to run away when it's ignited.  It's a specific flag, Avoid, applied to the critter AI.  They'll also try to escape a Glue patch, but that's an AI response when it can't reach a target (the AI has moments of unrelenting stupidity when its pathing isn't clear and concise), not an Avoid, so it's less reliable as an anti-alpha mechanism.  PGA pulses a mag 2 Sleep, so there's little retaliation from minions.

 

Historically, TA has only caused chaos when teammates realize the person with the bow and arrows isn't an Emp.  It's really more focused on battlefield movement management and enemy debilitation.

[Dragon Crush]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

Historically, TA has only caused chaos when teammates realize the person with the bow and arrows isn't an Emp.  It's really more focused on battlefield movement management and enemy debilitation.

That's when you use aid other from medicine pool to fire your heal arrow causing further confusion among the ranks /nod

Edited November 4, 2020 by Dragon Crush
misnamed power from pool

[Wavicle]

I can accept the EMP field not buffing the caster.

I can NOT accept it not buffing the MM casters pets. That's ridiculous.

[Hew]

Ok, so, yes, again with the fold space testing...

 

TA/Rad is pretty interesting. I can run 0/4 infernal on absolute garbage slotting (i followed the above posting for ta slotting, randomly slotted rad, took pretty much all of leadership, ct,tt,fs) and hit slot me! with random set ios. 

 

It is absolutely amusing, and better running than traps/rad/teleport!

[Luminara]

20 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I can accept the EMP field not buffing the caster.

I can NOT accept it not buffing the MM casters pets. That's ridiculous.

 

@Captain Powerhouse!  Flag it to allow pets to be included.  Excluding the caster is one thing, completely denying the caster's pets any benefit is another entirely, especially on the archetype most in need of it.

 

Except Daedalus.  That asshat pulled an entire room of Cimerorans on my level 48 sentinel this morning.  He can be excluded.  Preferably with a baseball bat.  A spikey baseball bat.  Filled with lead.

[WindDemon21]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

@Captain Powerhouse!  Flag it to allow pets to be included.  Excluding the caster is one thing, completely denying the caster's pets any benefit is another entirely, especially on the archetype most in need of it.

 

Except Daedalus.  That asshat pulled an entire room of Cimerorans on my level 48 sentinel this morning.  He can be excluded.  Preferably with a baseball bat.  A spikey baseball bat.  Filled with lead.

They really ought to fix Daeddy's and Impy's range AI lol. Like don't leave 50ft of the lead.

[Hew]

I would really like to be affected by whatever EMP does. I don't know what it does. But it sounds good, so I DEFINITELY want some. Sets where fenders self-affect are amazing! Sets where they dont? Well, less so.

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, Hew said:

I would really like to be affected by whatever EMP does. I don't know what it does. But it sounds good, so I DEFINITELY want some. Sets where fenders self-affect are amazing! Sets where they dont? Well, less so.

 

The cornerstone idea of TA is supposed to be not needing to affect oneself because one is affecting enemies instead.  Prior to these changes, it didn't do that very well.  With these changes, there may be no particular need for the TA to be affected by EMP Arrow's buff (the highlights are some +Resistance and +Status Protection).  The improvements to Flash Arrow and PGA by themselves bring a massive increase to the survivability offered by the set.  When stacking Ice Arrow's -Damage on top of PGA's, it's almost directly comparable to scrapper Resistance numbers.  Flash Arrow's increased -ToHit can be layered with much less +Defense than previously required to reach the soft cap.  For all intents and purposes, an SO build can become nearly impossible for critters to hit, and on the rare occasion when they do hit, not feel more than a tickle.

 

I believe the reason there's a push back against excluding the TA from EMP Arrow's Faraday Cage buff is because it includes status protection.  That's every squishie's Achilles' Heel... but it's a little less problematic for TAs, mechanically, because debuffs applied by TAs don't suppress, whereas toggles do, so any debuffs laid down by the TA will continue to work while they hunt for a Break Free, or pop that Sorcery pool status protection power, or wait it out.  A TA is going to be more survivable than any primary reliant on toggles (foe-affecting toggles drop when mezzed, self-affecting toggles suppress when mezzed) with some of these changes, so theoretically, TA would be a little unfairly strong in comparison to other primaries if it also affected the caster with EMP Arrow's buff.  @Captain Powerhouse isn't trying to turn TA into a god mode set, just bring it up from the bottom.

 

That said, I still remember being mezzed so often that I nearly quit playing entirely when I was leveling my Kin/Elec defender using only melee attacks.  I probably know more intimately than anyone else how maddening status effects are because of that experience.  And I wouldn't be averse to having some "fuck you, Bad Guys With Mez" from EMP Arrow, just so I never have to repeat that experience again, ever, when I'm playing squishies.  But with everything TA has going for it in this update, I can understand the need for some kind of limitation.  If people look at the mechanics and numbers, I believe they'll see that need as well.

 

But the pets really need the buffs from EMP Arrow.  Not because masterminds deserve anything extra, but because their pets are their powers.  The improvements have shown to be effective in testing, bringing mastermind TA up several notches from where it was, but the pets being excluded from EMP Arrow will have to change if they're to reach the same potential as other archetypes using TA.  They have lower debuff values, so the extra +Resistance from EMP Arrow would help them out in the way they most need it, and it would leave them open to playing SO builds instead of being forced to dip into IOs for the pet-only +Res and +Def uniques to make up for the weaker debuffs.

[Hew]

This was great! Thank you for the explanation! 

[Wavicle]

I think the problem is in the visually reinforced cognitive dissonance. You can SEE the field, but stepping into it does nothing.

If it was, as before, a click buff, it would make more sense that it can't effect the caster.

[Wavicle]

I'm not suggesting it be changed back, I'm just saying, I think that's why it feels weird.

[Wavicle]

On another subject, on my Corruptor the info window for Entangling Arrow contains an error:

You entangle a targeted foe causing their reflexes to become slowed and sluggish. This groudns them and causes them to have decreased movement speed and damage resistance. Weaker foes will also be immobilized. Recharge: Fast

[Wavicle]

Just discovered what looks like an effects display bug.

I'm doing Save Matthew Habashy and Atlas from Arachnos! and sometimes the "stars in their eyes" effect from Flash Arrow will disappear (though the Tohit Down part remains). Might be unique to Arachnos base maps...

 

[WindDemon21]

I Would imagine that the starry eyes is more an animation, but what about the to hit debuff aiming reticle on them?

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

I Would imagine that the starry eyes is more an animation, but what about the to hit debuff aiming reticle on them?

Ya, maybe I wasn’t clear. The tohit debuff stayed.