Compress the range of Recharge values

[aethereal]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

A cleverly disguised Nerf Hasten thread.  Well Done.  Well Done.  

 

I'd really like to see less discussion of radical changes to Hasten.  Those are just too disruptive.  My initial proposal certainly does propose nerfing Hasten, but I think it does so in a way that avoids completely invalidating thousands of builds and people really need to think clearly about how likely it is that we're going to make changes that completely invalidate thousands of builds.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, aethereal said:

 

I'd really like to see less discussion of radical changes to Hasten.  Those are just too disruptive.  My initial proposal certainly does propose nerfing Hasten, but I think it does so in a way that avoids completely invalidating thousands of builds and people really need to think clearly about how likely it is that we're going to make changes that completely invalidate thousands of builds.

As soon as you mention Hasten.  This is what happens.

This thread will likely be flamed to death when people realize that its being discussed.    

 

It is true that Recharge is completely out of control in COH build / IOs / Etc.   

Its not the only Issue with COH game design mechanically but its one of them.  

 

Recharge as an issue is not worth fixing IMO 

Fixing the game mechanics at this point are also not worth fixing IMO

 

[ClawsandEffect]

12 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Absolutely it would, because Hasten is a mandatory power that instantly deletes half the power pools in the game because why would you ever skip such an OP ability

Hasten is absolutely not mandatory. 

 

Half my builds don't include it at all and can still solo AVs. My main Claws/Willpower brute does not have Hasten and I can solo an ITF with him without issue. 

 

I still take it on characters that have powers with really long recharge times that I want up more often, but it is by no means mandatory.

[Hyperstrike]

9 hours ago, Crimsanotic said:

Hasten is pretty much mandatory on 99% of builds.

 

I agree with OP on pretty much all fronts, otherwise.

Sorry but no.  No it doesn't.
The fact that you're so acclimated to putting Hasten on everything doesn't mean Hasten is in any way "mandatory".
It's merely a min-maxing strategy.

[Hyperstrike]

9 hours ago, Super Atom said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This is a big old yikes. "Weasel-wording", really? You're pretty toxic, i don't think Imma interact with you. Disagree with me that Hasten is important on every build all you'd like, but this is just toxic.

Sorry.  But truth is truth.
If you want to pretend otherwise, that's your problem.
Have fun.

[arcane]

10 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

MANDATORY?

Uh.  No.  This is a lie.  Or, at best, rampant hyperbole.

NOBODY is twisting your arm behind your back and screaming at you to "Take Hasten OR ELSE!!!"

If you want to come up with a justification, come up with a justification.

This is deception and weasel-wording to push a narrative.

We don’t have to go right to assuming dishonesty. Could also be substantial ignorance.

[Coyotedancer]

10 hours ago, Crimsanotic said:

Hasten is pretty much mandatory on 99% of builds.

 

I agree with OP on pretty much all fronts, otherwise.

 

It really, really isn't. 

 

Useful? Sure. 

Required to play the game successfully? No.

 

You're falling into that trap of thinking that forum regulars, MIDS gurus and power players are "everybody". Which we aren't and never have been. Not everyone out there in-game takes it, or even thinks it's all that great a pick.... 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Psyonico]

Back to the original thread, what would this do to something like a build compensating for Granite's debuffs?  If those debuffs aren't changed, suddenly it becomes a lot harder to overcome the -recharge in Granite.

[aethereal]

19 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Back to the original thread, what would this do to something like a build compensating for Granite's debuffs?  If those debuffs aren't changed, suddenly it becomes a lot harder to overcome the -recharge in Granite.

I think global -recharge should also be cut in half, just like global +recharge.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

I'd really like to see less discussion of radical changes to Hasten.  Those are just too disruptive.  My initial proposal certainly does propose nerfing Hasten, but I think it does so in a way that avoids completely invalidating thousands of builds and people really need to think clearly about how likely it is that we're going to make changes that completely invalidate thousands of builds.

At some point even smaller changes will in their cumulative and interacting effects radically change the game.  They have done so in the past.  Discussing and playing City of Heroes as much as possible as if it was Issue 0 on the Classic Hero Challenge has really emphasized that.  And radical changes have been introduced as well.

 

I reconsidered and now see Recharge and Hasten can't be changed independently of each other.  Recharge can't be changed without changing Hasten and vice versa.  I still think as part of those changes, Hasten should be made an auto power.

 

I think more changes, including radical changes, have to be considered and discussed and revised, because the right change, even the right radical change, is needed in current City of Heroes.  And Hasten and Recharge are going to be obvious targets of those proposed changes, as would any feature that is so important and challenging in a build.   Changes still need to happen to the game.  Some people won't like those changes.  Many won't like no changes to existing systems at all either.

[Infinitum]

Its like someone else said, hasten isn't required its a min max thing.  I usually end up with nothing else worth taking so why not take hasten at that point but I have 5 builds that don't take hasten.

Not really a fan of the whole idea of tinkering with recharge good or bad.  

Tinkering with this has a problem both ways. At the end you would either end up where we are, nerfed so bad it's not functional, or creeped so bad it's not fun either.

 

Just leave that one alone. 

 

Endurance on the other hand...

 

That's one you really have to go out of your way to fix on some builds.  Which I'm ok with it being that way, but if tinkeration is going to occur tinker with that.  lol

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

We don’t have to go right to assuming dishonesty. Could also be substantial ignorance.

 

 

Which is why I made an allowance for hyperbole.

[GM Kaiju]

Locking thread; the civil discussion was over.