Suggestion - modify the power crash from Tier 9 armor powers

[Voltor]

Long ago Peacebringer light form was modified so that the crash wasn't so bad and it received a few other adjustments.

 

If memory serves, the mods were talking about doing similar adjustments to electric, energy and invulnerable's T9 armor powers but then the lights went out.

 

Any chance of at least getting the power crash from those powers a bit mitigated?  Ran some tests on an electric armor tank of mine and that power crash drains him to near ZERO on health and stamina still.   My peacebringer's lightform crash is no where near as bad.

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, Voltor said:

My peacebringer's lightform crash is no where near as bad.

I think that is broken in the other direction.

A human form PB is 'meant' (well, at least how I think of it) as a semi blaster with decent resists and healing. It really wasnt meant to be a '100% of the time Lightform resist capped with status protection.' Because having huge resists and status proc IS what dwarf does.

Not totally sure Lightform IS perma, but I have seen a few PBs bragging theirs is. (Just checked, it is)

Aside from Granite (which has its own huge issues), no other armour set in the game has a perma T9. Well Warshades too, but theirs does not give status prot, and needs to hit targets.

 

So from where I am sitting..the Lightform crash is TOO forgiving (for how good the power is), or it should be changed so it cant be perma'd.

 

I do agree that the t9 crashes from other sets are..well...

Looking at the T9s on their own (like Unstop and Elude), they ARE powers that give amazing amounts of survivability. It is only when you look at the rest of what those power sets do, that it is painfully obvious (especially in Eludes case) that the T9 is often doing very little, over and above the other powers. I know there has been threads about tweaking T9 powers on teh forums, so perhaps that will happen down the track.

If it does, we could see T9s reduced in isolated power, and actually become worth taking!

 

The devs saw that too some degree, which is why the T9s for shield, wp, rad and bio are all 'less' awesome or a bit different.

 

Sorry to hijack the topic but..

Back to Lightform again..why is it the only perma T9 power, that caps you to all resists bar 2, gives perma status prot to an AT that wasnt designed that way, as well as make every other shield toggle not needing? All that, with very little crash?

 

 

[chi1701]

1 hour ago, Razor Cure said:

I think that is broken in the other direction.

A human form PB is 'meant' (well, at least how I think of it) as a semi blaster with decent resists and healing. It really wasnt meant to be a '100% of the time Lightform resist capped with status protection.' Because having huge resists and status proc IS what dwarf does.

Not totally sure Lightform IS perma, but I have seen a few PBs bragging theirs is. (Just checked, it is)

Aside from Granite (which has its own huge issues), no other armour set in the game has a perma T9. Well Warshades too, but theirs does not give status prot, and needs to hit targets.

 

So from where I am sitting..the Lightform crash is TOO forgiving (for how good the power is), or it should be changed so it cant be perma'd.

 

I do agree that the t9 crashes from other sets are..well...

Looking at the T9s on their own (like Unstop and Elude), they ARE powers that give amazing amounts of survivability. It is only when you look at the rest of what those power sets do, that it is painfully obvious (especially in Eludes case) that the T9 is often doing very little, over and above the other powers. I know there has been threads about tweaking T9 powers on teh forums, so perhaps that will happen down the track.

If it does, we could see T9s reduced in isolated power, and actually become worth taking!

 

The devs saw that too some degree, which is why the T9s for shield, wp, rad and bio are all 'less' awesome or a bit different.

 

Sorry to hijack the topic but..

Back to Lightform again..why is it the only perma T9 power, that caps you to all resists bar 2, gives perma status prot to an AT that wasnt designed that way, as well as make every other shield toggle not needing? All that, with very little crash?

 

 

Perma light form requires perma hasten, a trade off that is needed to get a maximum amount of recharge from io sets possible and can be an expensive build. It requires level 38 so has a limited level range, but also, its  status protection  is limited and offers no protection from mesmerise. Human form also is limited in terms of maximum health, being very close to that of a defender.

 

Dwarf form is in nature like nova is limited to certain abilities, some people dont like dwarf or nova forms due their clunky designs of coming in and out of forms, pure human is a option. And if perma LF is that ground breaking, the class as a whole wouldnt the 4th to bottom of most played archytype?

Edited February 2, 2021 by chi1701

[Razor Cure]

1 minute ago, chi1701 said:

Perma light form requires perma hasten, a trade off that is needed to get a maximum amount of recharge from io sets possible and can be an expensive build. It requires level 38 so has a limited level range, but also, its  status protection  is limited and offers no protection from mesmerise. Human form also is limited in terms of maximum health, being very close to that of a defender.

 

Dwarf form is in nature like nova is limited to certain abilities, some people dont like dwarf or nova forms due their clunky designs of coming in and out of forms, pure human is a option. And if perma LF is that ground breaking, the class as a while wouldnt the 4th to bottom of most played archytype?

Just needing perma hasten is not that much of a stretch. Quite a few of my toons ended up with perma hasten, when I was not even going all out for recharge at all.

Also, LF at 38 means you get to 'use' it at 35. That covers quite a chunk of the game. Moreso considering the kinda people going for perma LF may just play high level stuff, to use those shinies.

 

About the Sleep hole. I did not know that. BUT..having capped resist to all but 2 things kinda makes sleeps mean a lot less. You get slept, the next hit comes in, taking 15% of the damage, and you wake up again. Even if the attack was tox or psi, you would be taking more damage regardless or being slept or not. That is a far, far cry from a WS having no status prot at all, outside of Lobster.

 

The fact that PBs are 4th bottom really has no bearing on perma LF. Actually it kinda suggests the AT, outside of LF, is meh, at best. If 'any' pb player could hit that goal, there would be more. Also, by contrast, what % of melee ATs take their T9, compared to how many PBs do? I bet that is pretty skewed. Which again..tells me that perma LF is basically required. And if a power set requires a T9 godmode to function, its a pretty bad design (ie: stone armour).

 

[chi1701]

Simple saying, the grass is always greener on the other side, if you think its that good, role one.

[golstat2003]

Yeah my PB doesn't even bother with Light Form. It's  . . . just not needed.

 

As for the crashes being removed or edited from the tier 9s, sure I might actually take those tier 9s. It would be an improvement similar to how they improved blaster actually taking their nukes. Cause prior to that a lot of blasters didn't.

Edited February 2, 2021 by golstat2003

[SeraphimKensai]

Honestly a lot of tier 9 armors just need to be revisited in general, as they are typically skipped by most people.

[chi1701]

3 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

Yeah my PB doesn't even bother with Light Form. It's  . . . just not needed.

 

As for the crashes being removed or edited from the tier 9s, sure I might actually take those tier 9s. It would be an improvement similar to how they improved blaster actually taking their nukes. Cause prior to that a lot of blasters didn't.

Majority of time, I dont use it, though it is handy when used in conjunction with nova form, and does allow for set bonuses to benefit my build.

[nihilii]

9 hours ago, chi1701 said:

Simple saying, the grass is always greener on the other side, if you think its that good, role one.

IMHO, Razor makes a very strong case, and the mitigating aspect of perma Light Form being blatantly overpowered is that Peacebringers as a whole are fairly underpowered.

 

In the context of this thread, if Unstoppable became perma and only crashed you to 50% HP, could you imagine how much tougher invul characters would be?

But I also agree with OP, as long as the powers aren't perma (and regular T9s aren't), a lessened crash would be fair. Crash to 50% HP, combined with the endurance crash it makes for something dangerous but not something that takes you out of the fight entirely.

 

It is somewhat strange we accept T9s in attack powersets as generally desirable powers and T9s in defense powersets as highly skippable. The game has evolved such that defense powersets are tough enough and relatively balanced with each other despite the crashing T9s in only some of them, so it makes sense in practice. But it's a little strange regardless.

[Voltor]

12 hours ago, chi1701 said:

Perma light form requires perma hasten, a trade off that is needed to get a maximum amount of recharge from io sets possible and can be an expensive build. It requires level 38 so has a limited level range, but also, its  status protection  is limited and offers no protection from mesmerise. Human form also is limited in terms of maximum health, being very close to that of a defender.

 

Dwarf form is in nature like nova is limited to certain abilities, some people dont like dwarf or nova forms due their clunky designs of coming in and out of forms, pure human is a option. And if perma LF is that ground breaking, the class as a whole wouldnt the 4th to bottom of most played archytype?

 

 

My PB has perma light form without hasten.    also I have builds for electric and energy and invul armors that would lower the Tier 9 armor recharge down to the point where after it crashes the power will be ready in 60 seconds.........problem is that is 60 seconds of having to quickly pop insps and hope you don't get blasted by the enemies due to the extreme nature of the crash.

 

Mitigate the crash and make it so that the recharge time cannot be reduced just like Strength of Will.

 

[chi1701]

13 minutes ago, Voltor said:

 

 

My PB has perma light form without hasten.    also I have builds for electric and energy and invul armors that would lower the Tier 9 armor recharge down to the point where after it crashes the power will be ready in 60 seconds.........problem is that is 60 seconds of having to quickly pop insps and hope you don't get blasted by the enemies due to the extreme nature of the crash.

 

Mitigate the crash and make it so that the recharge time cannot be reduced just like Strength of Will.

 

Must use spirutual core paragon, combined with high recharge, my pb can do the same but decided that extra damage and debuff from muscular was more beneficial.

 

Problem is, any change to to LF will also effect the forms as a tri form, I use it nova form due to its squishy nature. LF acts as status protection due to the armour that have has zero protection, if LF is to be nerfed then human shields will need status protection added to them, in same way with tanks, scrappers and sentinels have.

 

But tbh, dont think anything will happen, dont think class has enough overall interest to make it worthwhile change otherwise this would of been done years ago.

[Voltor]

14 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Must use spirutual core paragon, combined with high recharge, my pb can do the same but decided that extra damage and debuff from muscular was more beneficial.

 

Problem is, any change to to LF will also effect the forms as a tri form, I use it nova form due to its squishy nature. LF acts as status protection due to the armour that have has zero protection, if LF is to be nerfed then human shields will need status protection added to them, in same way with tanks, scrappers and sentinels have.

 

But tbh, dont think anything will happen, dont think class has enough overall interest to make it worthwhile change otherwise this would of been done years ago.

 

Lightform was made into its current state before the lights went out, it doesn't need to be changed. 

 

Electric, energy and invul armor need the adjustments

[Haijinx]

11 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Honestly a lot of tier 9 armors just need to be revisited in general, as they are typically skipped by most people.

But then people will want more power picks 

 

Because how else are they gonna get Two Travel Powers and 4 Leadership powers into every build  0.o? 

[SwitchFade]

13 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Honestly a lot of tier 9 armors just need to be revisited in general, as they are typically skipped by most people.

This is the underlying refresh need.

 

Currently, the T9s add something that was really designed for an issue 4-7 game. However, I am sure there are those that take and love them, who play in this environment.

 

The challenge is, balanced round SOs, in a casual realm, are the current T9s relevant? Of so, leave them. Why?

 

Because in a super IOd out maxi cosi realm, we don't need the T9... And THAT'S OK.

 

If there are people who use it for their style of gameplay, leave it. Doesn't hurt us min/maxers to skip it, because that just gives us more power choices.

 

More data is needed from the Dev team to really know the repricussions.

 

At this time, delay/no vote... More data plz.