Brute versus Sentinel

[Snarky]

Okay.  Lot of good feedback in the Tank vs. Brute topic.  A little spirited too lol

 

But can someone explain to me simply (besides a wee bit more range) The Damage potential difference between Brutes and Sentinels?  Basic damage modifiers, target caps if applicable (I know Sentinels got truncated  compared to Blasters...how do they stand vs Brutes?)

[Player2]

For one thing, Sentinels do not have a taunt.  They're survivable, but limited at aggro management on a team.

 

[ForeverLaxx]

Unless you're procing things out, the damage potential is less. Brutes have Fury, and Sentinel Opportunity doesn't even come close to comparing to that. I'd imagine with procs, considering proper sets and build planning, their damage will be closer. Though that can be said of essentially any "proc monster" build and may not be relevant to the discussion.

 

For target caps, Sentinels are lower relative to a Blaster but they'll be comparable to a Brute's target caps because of that. They seem to follow the general rule for cones and sphere's regarding max targets. That is, except Sonic Blast and Water Blast. Unless something changed when I wasn't looking, Sonic and Water Sentinels have Blaster target caps for all AoEs except the T9 power, which is reduced as expected.

 

For AT Modifiers to damage, it seems Brutes are 0.75 melee and ranged while Sentinels are 0.95 to melee and ranged. Of course, melee ATs use their melee modifiers even for ranged damage, but a Brute has the same scalar for both anyway. This is relative to the baseline Blaster Melee of 1.00, meaning that a Blaster hitting with a melee power of 50 damage would deal 37.5 on a Brute and 47.5 damage on the Sentinel if it's the same power. Granted, Sentinels don't have melee powers without pool attacks (unlikely to use) or the APP/PPP choices (which often come with long recharge values that scale their damage upwards in accordance with the formula) but it's just a relative base to look at anyway. If you wanted to compare Blaster ranged to Sentinel ranged to get a better idea, remember that Blaster ranged is 1.125 scalar and Sentinels are still 0.95 so a ranged attack from a Blaster that deals 225 damage will only deal 190 on the Sentinel while hitting less targets most of the time.

 

But again, Brutes get Fury which ramps up their damage quickly so looking at both of the ATs on scalars alone is misleading.

Edited February 7, 2021 by ForeverLaxx

[Snarky]

Thanks ForeverLaxx.  Exactly the information I was looking for.  As a min/maxxer (it is a SUPER game right?) that leaves my main choice comfortably in the Brute realm.  I started on Brutes, unless there is some giant game revision I will probably end there as well.  (Although if they modify Tanks one more time....) 

 

I think I can eek out a min max build on a Sentinel.  It is just a LOT harder because they works against the I/O's half the time as Armor ATs are expected to use melee I/Os and the Ranged I/Os are not as useful in armoring up.  

 

But everytime I spend a week or two on getting A Sentinel where I want I end up running a high defense Blaster lol.  But I will revisit some of my Tank-Mage concepts.  There is a Sentinel out there for me, i know it lol.

[macskull]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

But everytime I spend a week or two on getting A Sentinel where I want I end up running a high defense Blaster lol.

This is pretty much because once you start factoring IOs into things you can make a Blaster almost as survivable as a Sentinel while dealing way more damage.

[oldskool]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:36 AM, Snarky said:

Thanks ForeverLaxx.  Exactly the information I was looking for.  As a min/maxxer (it is a SUPER game right?) that leaves my main choice comfortably in the Brute realm.  I started on Brutes, unless there is some giant game revision I will probably end there as well.  (Although if they modify Tanks one more time....) 

 

I think I can eek out a min max build on a Sentinel.  It is just a LOT harder because they works against the I/O's half the time as Armor ATs are expected to use melee I/Os and the Ranged I/Os are not as useful in armoring up.  

 

But everytime I spend a week or two on getting A Sentinel where I want I end up running a high defense Blaster lol.  But I will revisit some of my Tank-Mage concepts.  There is a Sentinel out there for me, i know it lol.

The key to min/max on Sentinel is to look into the stronger secondary sets which enable exploring procs in your attacks.  Super Reflexes is *excellent* at this because the set can get to 45% on positional defenses easily, it includes a nice health absorb that is highly recommended, you get 20% bonus global recharge, and the slotting isn't demanding.  This can allow a player to just go nuts with slotting primary because the defense set is almost entirely self-contained.  

Bio Armor has a lot of good perks for heavy offensive builds, but you're not as likely to make a tanky turtle without giving up some damage.  Hence the reason why I recommend SR or EA most of the time.  EA is very similar to SR but has some different perks and pitfalls.  Also, Sentinel Invulnerability is really powerful. 

 

If you're wanting to go full try-hard and min/max a Sentinel your options are incredibly limited.  You can't just pick out of a few of the top 5 power sets and then throw a dart at a board for the defense set like a Brute, Scrapper, or Stalker.  There are 2 really good primaries and only a few secondaries that enable abuse.  Then you have to take Dominate with procs and Mind Probe.  They are that strong.  

Then for all of the expenditure you could roll pretty much anything else and get a potentially better return on investment.  I say potentially because there are some edge cases where Sentinels are quite good when pushed to extremes, but most players don't do that.  Especially not when they can play just about anything else to get more out of the return in 90% of the game.  

[Black Zot]

If you want ranged damage with survivability, roll a VEAT.  You'll get better range, better target caps, at least as much damage/durability, and contribute more to the team than a sentinel could ever hope to.  The only reason to roll a Sent over a Crab, Huntsman, or Fort is you want to play a concept that isn't covered by those three.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Black Zot

[loyalreader]

Hey @Snarky, I'm going to give you the 'feel' answer instead of the 'numbers' answer. You know how your brute goes into melee cold and that first punch/stab/cleave/pummel does meh damage? Then you take some hits and all of the sudden you're able to give a smackdown? It's like the first part without the second part. But ranged. 

 

I have a sentinel who is a lot of fun to play (helps that I love the concept) but, man, it can be a slog. 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Black Zot said:

If you want ranged damage with survivability, roll a VEAT.  You'll get better range, better target caps, at least as much damage/durability, and contribute more to the team than a sentinel could ever hope to.  The only reason to roll a Sent over a Crab, Huntsman, or Fort is you want to play a concept that isn't covered by those three.

Sigh, I made a pimped out Crab on Homecoming.  Then the damn Backpack started showing up on other toons and would not go away.  weird weird glitch.  May have to do with the new type of memory discs comps use now.  No idea, just a guess.  But the damn thing was showing more and more.  I deleted character, solved issue.

 

I do love almost everything about the Crab.  Except working for Arachnos.  Those guys suck...at being bad.  Sure, there are a lot of them, but they are F-ing incompetent

[Grindingsucks]

Wow, that is a weird glitch, @Snarky   😂