Can we have a real moment? Is Homecoming SCORE 2.0?

[Guest jordan_yen]

First I have to say that I've found that asking questions like this ends up with drama somehow and I don't understand it. I have a specific question to ask with no agenda that I hope I'll get an honest answer to. There's been so much US vs THEM recently and I think it's largely imaginary and would ask that people curb the hostility. We're all on the same team: CoH. The rest is just details.

 

That said, my question is this: the information suggests that the leadership, devs, moderators, coders, etc who run Homecoming a simply the SCORE folks, but now on a larger scale. Because I know someone will ask, the reason I want to know is 1) because I've seen that said and I don't feel like I can correct it if I don't know it's wrong and 2) the reason SCORE was a sticking point for many was because of the lack of transparency. I don't believe the community can be healthy and start to move forward together unless we have honest transparency about who we're working with.

 

Hell, for some people, the SCORE team would be a bonus since they have a six-year head start on coding and understanding the game's inner workings.

[Skyhawke]

Ok, so up until a couple weeks ago, I had no idea this even existed. I still don't know what SCORE is, honsetly. So, my question (like yours an honest question, not meant to engender drama) is: why does it matter?  I'm genuinely curious why someone can't enjoy something at face value. Am I missing something?

[Leandro]

SCORE and Homecoming are two separate entities. Fundamentally, think of it as a developer/distributor relationship. SCORE produces patches and provides documentation and implementation advice, Homecoming maintains the server and provides support and comunity management.

[Jimmy]

Just to add to that: Most of the Homecoming team (including myself and Cipher) did not play on the original SCORE server.

[Guest jordan_yen]

Just to add to that: Most of the Homecoming team (including myself and Cipher) did not play on the original SCORE server.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I asked partially because I've seen drama between HC and others and I don't understand it. If this isn't a Score thing, why the animosity? On the Discord, every channel seems to be open to Homecoming information and server updates and chatter, but the reverse does't seem to be true.

[Guest jordan_yen]

SCORE and Homecoming are two separate entities. Fundamentally, think of it as a developer/distributor relationship. SCORE produces patches and provides documentation and implementation advice, Homecoming maintains the server and provides support and comunity management.

 

That's a good analogy. If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions, would you say that you've taken a backseat to the whole thing at this point? Do you find it easier to let others handle the PR and User management while you stay in the code? How did you decide who to team up with to make homecoming?

[Guest jordan_yen]

Ok, so up until a couple weeks ago, I had no idea this even existed. I still don't know what SCORE is, honsetly. So, my question (like yours an honest question, not meant to engender drama) is: why does it matter?  I'm genuinely curious why someone can't enjoy something at face value. Am I missing something?

 

If you read up on SCORE, I think it would be clear why there are trust issues. I have personally advocated that people just move on since the code was out and their secret club and drama that went with it was history, but that wouldn't be the case if Homecoming was just an extension of that. My reason for asking is to learn more about who is behind Homecoming and whether they can be trusted. I actually didn't have much of a trust issue until I heard about the SCORE team involvement, saw the badmouthing of non-HC efforts, and started wondering how they were able to afford what they were doing.

 

The above largely answers the SCORE question, the funding seems to be handled, though I do still have some reservations about the animosity problem. Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

[OmegaX123]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

[Rhinoxx]

If you read up on SCORE, I think it would be clear why there are trust issues. I have personally advocated that people just move on since the code was out and their secret club and drama that went with it was history, but that wouldn't be the case if Homecoming was just an extension of that. My reason for asking is to learn more about who is behind Homecoming and whether they can be trusted. I actually didn't have much of a trust issue until I heard about the SCORE team involvement, saw the badmouthing of non-HC efforts, and started wondering how they were able to afford what they were doing.

 

Actually no - reading up doesn't make it clear why there should be trust issues; it does make it clear that there are a lot of people who make a lot of drama over this - basically amounting to "we were left outside."

And yes, I can understand that might suck. But it happened. It is now done. CoH is now in the wild and available - move on.

[Nuc]

If you read up on SCORE, I think it would be clear why there are trust issues. I have personally advocated that people just move on since the code was out and their secret club and drama that went with it was history, but that wouldn't be the case if Homecoming was just an extension of that. My reason for asking is to learn more about who is behind Homecoming and whether they can be trusted. I actually didn't have much of a trust issue until I heard about the SCORE team involvement, saw the badmouthing of non-HC efforts, and started wondering how they were able to afford what they were doing.

 

Actually no - reading up doesn't make it clear why there should be trust issues; it does make it clear that there are a lot of people who make a lot of drama over this - basically amounting to "we were left outside."

And yes, I can understand that might suck. But it happened. It is now done. CoH is now in the wild and available - move on.

 

 

There's a thread not far below this one that's 10 pages of people arguing about ED. Moving on doesn't seem to be some people's strong point.

 

 

As for this thread? Seems more like concern-trolling that anything else. There seems to be a small subset of people who just can't resist trying to stir up a little drama between HC and the other teams. They usually start by stating they have absolutely no agenda and just can't understand why posts like these lead to drama...

[golstat2003]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

Pretty much this. I've seen the others bashing Homecoming. Not the other way around.

[blayzemaster]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

Very much this, all I have seen is the other way round. Particularly a certain day when the main discord had a big speech about HC and then the next day tried to say they didn't want to encourage or create drama...

[Guest jordan_yen]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

 

I could be wrong. Do you have examples? Here's one of the HC mods bashing the others:

 

Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,2875.60.html

 

 

[Guest jordan_yen]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

Very much this, all I have seen is the other way round. Particularly a certain day when the main discord had a big speech about HC and then the next day tried to say they didn't want to encourage or create drama...

 

I have't seen that, but I did hear about HC being an extension of SCORE which is why I asked this question.

[golstat2003]

Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better.

 

I could be wrong. Do you have examples? Here's one of the HC mods bashing the others:

 

Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,2875.60.html

 

That example to me reads of exactly what he said. Folks twisting whatever Homecoming devs say to fit whatever narrative. Which is the reality. That's not bashing that's just straight facts as to what is happening.

[Thramack]

Does it really matter? The servers are available for all to play on now.

 

Unpopular truth: If I had a CoH Server up and running I would have kept it quiet too, because there would have been no telling what NCSoft would do. My feelings aren't hurt by it. I get the logic.

 

Is the code safer out in the wilds of the internet now? Probably. But was it even playable state when they initially got the code? Probably not. It probably needed a lot of work.

 

I have seen nothing but professionalism, improvements, and results coming the Homecoming Team, both on the forums and in the Discord. The same cannot be said for other entities.

 

Maybe when I was younger I would have worried about the drama, I don't know. I'm over 40 years old now. I have a full time job. I have a family. I have other obligations. I have far more important things to do than worry about internet drama.

 

 

I am thankful to the Homecoming team for their continued hard work, their professionalism, and the opportunity to not only play the game I love, but the chance to introduce my wife to, and play along side her in the Rogue Islands. Due to all of that the entire Homecoming will continue to have my support, both in voice and in the form of donations. They are doing a stellar job and I hope they continue to keep up the good work.

[Guest jordan_yen]

That example to me reads of exactly what he said. Folks twisting whatever Homecoming devs say to fit whatever narrative. Which is the reality. That's not bashing that's just straight facts as to what is happening.

 

What examples? Have you seen any mods of CoH discord bashing HC?

[Auroxis]

I love the homecoming team. Cipher, Jimmy and crew are doing an excellent job. But letting Leandro be in charge of all the design and development is something i'm finding difficult to support. This is the community's game now, let us be more involved in balance and direction.

 

Let the community managers collect suggestions, run a beta branch where we can provide feedback, create threads for possible changes and let the community weigh in instead of letting Leandro take all the developmental decisions and the heat that comes with them.

[Guest jordan_yen]

I have seen nothing but professionalism, improvements, and results coming the Homecoming Team, both on the forums and in the Discord. The same cannot be said for other entities.

 

From an HC mod:

Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative

 

From here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,2875.60.html

 

What do you mean you aren't seeing professionalism and results from other teams? Do you have examples of them being a problem because I haven't seen anything I can recall being like that.

 

Maybe when I was younger I would have worried about the drama, I don't know. I'm over 40 years old now. I have a full time job. I have a family. I have other obligations. I have far more important things to do than worry about internet drama.

 

Same on all counts. I'm not talking about drama, I'm taking about trust and that is worth discussing.

 

[Rhinoxx]

I could be wrong. Do you have examples? Here's one of the HC mods bashing the others:

 

Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative

 

How is that bashing the others? That is IMNSHO a reasonable response to being bashed, badmouthed and yelled at on the Discord. I would even say that is a very civil response and much nicer than what I would say if I were in the same position.

 

 

[Guest jordan_yen]

I could be wrong. Do you have examples? Here's one of the HC mods bashing the others:

 

Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative

 

How is that bashing the others? That is IMNSHO a reasonable response to being bashed, badmouthed and yelled at on the Discord. I would even say that is a very civil response and much nicer than what I would say if I were in the same position.

 

I agree it's a natural response, but still looks petty and I think the mods need to rise above that in conversation. If they want to make a comment on it officially, they should do so in a controlled way IMO. Still, I can't fully disagree with it assuming it's true. So is it? People keep claiming that there are mods on the CoH discord being terrible to HC, but without providing any links.

[jubakumbi]

The world is full of humans that love to be dramatical.

 

This game has ALWAYS had a large portion of players that 'worry' over how others play the game and by extention, how they live thier lives.

It has always had a ton of busy bodies and hall monitors.

 

Now, many if not most of the most cranky and controlling players were not allowed on the secret server and now they have are determined to rain firey vengence upon those that did - even if those same people are the ones now providing game servers and support.

 

Small minds that live in small, vengful and restictied realities have decide that HC did not/does not do everything to the 'moral' standard they have laid out, so HC must be the enemy...while they play on the servers HC provides...

 

Just like any other MMO...

[Guest jordan_yen]

The world is full of humans that love to be dramatical.

 

This game has ALWAYS had a large portion of players that 'worry' over how others play the game and by extention, how they live thier lives.

It has always had a ton of busy bodies and hall monitors.

 

Now, many if not most of the most cranky and controlling players were not allowed on the secret server and now they have are determined to rain firey vengence upon those that did - even if those same people are the ones now providing game servers and support.

 

Small minds that live in small, vengful and restictied realities have decide that HC did not/does not do everything to the 'moral' standard they have laid out, so HC must be the enemy...while they play on the servers HC provides...

 

Just like any other MMO...

 

That's pointless drama IMO and not worth my time (or yours I'd guess). My question is about community leadership and some of my questions have been answered. My new question is based on the responses I've gotten so far which suggest there are problems with the leaders of the CoH discord community or other projects. Is that true and if it is, [citation needed]

[Nuc]

The world is full of humans that love to be dramatical.

 

This game has ALWAYS had a large portion of players that 'worry' over how others play the game and by extention, how they live thier lives.

It has always had a ton of busy bodies and hall monitors.

 

Now, many if not most of the most cranky and controlling players were not allowed on the secret server and now they have are determined to rain firey vengence upon those that did - even if those same people are the ones now providing game servers and support.

 

Small minds that live in small, vengful and restictied realities have decide that HC did not/does not do everything to the 'moral' standard they have laid out, so HC must be the enemy...while they play on the servers HC provides...

 

Just like any other MMO...

 

That's pointless drama IMO and not worth my time (or yours I'd guess). My question is about community leadership and some of my questions have been answered. My new question is based on the responses I've gotten so far which suggest there are problems with the leaders of the CoH discord community or other projects. Is that true and if it is, [citation needed]

 

 

Why? Why is anything needed? Why does the Homecoming team have to prove anything to you? If you don't trust HC/believe it to just be SCoRE 2.0 then the answer is simple. There are other servers to play CoH on. Just leave. Oh wait, you already did...  ::)

[Guest jordan_yen]

LET ME BE CLEAR

 

There are a lot of people in this conversation who didn't read or care what I opened with and are trying to spin this into some kind of drama. Maybe they just don't understand my motivations and think I'm trying to stir trouble so let me explain. I have reservations about the HC community and leadership. I have questions because I'm open to seeing if I'm wrong and so far I've learned some reassuring things while hearing some that aren't so reassuring.

 

In particular, I'm no longer part of the HC server community, but people have suggested that there are problems with the leadership team of other offerings. That is critically important information if I'm going to continue to be a part of that community -- not drama -- trust. Can I trust the people in charge of the platform I've chosen to be a part of? If you're telling me that's the case, I would like to see some evidence of such because I'm frankly not just going to take your word for it just like you wouldn't take mine in reverse.

 

Is that really so unreasonable?