Ice Armor/Stone Melee - Is Ice worse than sans-granite Stone now?

[Onlyasandwich]

I've been fiddling with an Ice/stone build today, as I've always wanted to use both sets, and they work thematically with the crystal theme.

 

I'm a bit surprised to find how difficult it is to bring Ice/ even up to the levels I managed on my Stone/ tanker that doesn't use Granite! By comparison, the Stone/ has much better S/L resist, comparable (even a tiny bit higher) S/L/E/N defense, and actually has Psi defense (pretty strong, too), rather than just a little nod to resist.  All this while still doing what I want in my secondary. What the heck - Ice/ even has a little less DDR!

 

I'd love to understand how I might better achieve my goals with this combo! Here are my priorities:

• As close as possible to incarnate softcap on S/L/E/N defense.
• As much S/L resist as possible without sacrificing too much elsewhere.
• Recharge as a secondary focus, proccing out attacks where I can without taking away too much from my tankiness.

 

What I don't like about my current build:

• Still shy of incarnate softcap for S/L/E/N. This isn't a huge deal.
• Piddling Psi defense, and maybe manageable psi resist. I get the feeling this guy is going to be rough in end-game psi-fests.
• S/L resist is still a bit uninspiring. It's probably fine, especially with some ATO procs ringing.

 

Things I was considering:

• Dropping Energy epic and hibernation, instead picking up Spirit ward, Mystic flight, and RoP. With the proposed RoP changes, it would basically be a one-slot wonder.
• Changing Seismic to a more proc-focused slotting for maximum smash. Would lose some nice bonuses.
• Dropping Hurl Boulder's proc-fest in favor of muling in a Winter set for the 5% E/N defense. I kinda like the idea of making it an actually good attack though.

 

I know my Fault slotting is a little weird. It might be a source to siphon slots, but I like how it looks overall. 

 

Build:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ice Stone: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-ResDam%(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(48), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(9)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(17), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(43), MckBrt-Rchg(43)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ClvBlo-Acc/Rchg(15), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(15), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(17)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(19)
Level 20: Fault -- AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(21), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23), ExpStr-Dam%(42), PrfZng-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def(40)
Level 28: Tremor -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg(29), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Arm-Dam%(34)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33)
Level 35: Hurl Boulder -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg(36), PrfZng-Dam%(36), GldJvl-Dam%(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

[Sir Myshkin]

I apologize in advance if I’m missing something just looking at the posted chunk since I can’t pull this up in Mid’s right now, but I don’t think I’m seeing the Impervium 5% Psi resists? If you’re really looking at bulking up that’s the easiest way to invest slots into some resistance. Between five of those, Reactive, and Shield Wall you’ll get a decent base line.

 

In regards to Incarnate soft cap, I know it is possible to hit 45% on Ice Armor without Energy Absorption, so there really shouldn’t be much of a struggle to grab 59% with EA in the mix.

 

I can’t post a build, but I’m fairly certain it’s in the Tanker Proc Monster thread (see signature), along with some additional notes about the build.

[Onlyasandwich]

Thank you for the perspective, Myshkin.

 

I do already have scaling +res and shield wall IOs present. My baseline Psy resist is high enough to be useful (24.5% without an ATO proc), but I do worry about how it will hold up under psy heavy missions. A couple ATO procs may bring it into usable territory, and hibernate can cover the gaps. 

 

Ice does not have a ton of spaces to place the +psy resist IOs (3 in total including tough), but I'm not sure that it's a worthwhile trade for the slot investment. The low-hanging fruit would be to siphon 3 slots from Fault. Doing so would bring me up to ~40 psy resist, but I would lose some interesting perks in Fault.

 

Ice is basically the only Tanker primary I haven't built and played before, so I may not be properly valuing each component.  The slow and -dam from chilling embrace in particular is probably more beneficial than it appears at first glance, beyond the double taunt aura advantage. EA looks like it will provide a reliable cover for that last push to incarnate soft-cap when facing crowds, but is rather meager in a ST hard target, and does nothing against psy.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

Fiddling with slots further, I'm really left wondering why Wet Ice still doesn't allow defense IOs. I understand the original rationale was that it was a "trap" to slot defense value here, but in a world of unslotters, infinite respecs, and full power info, this doesn't really hold up.

 

Gimme that free slot! It would be the perfect spot for shield wall at least.

 

To me, Ice seems overall like the "purest" defense set - even moreso than SR in some ways. SR gets scaling resist, which is actually really meaningful, especially on a tanker.

All that leaves Ice is cold resist, end management, and a totally standard dull pain clone. Given that, I really think the set deserves more than ~50% DDR. This puts it lower than any other defense based primary for DDR! Maybe this is balanced against Hibernate? I haven't played a modern tanker yet that would need to be actively balanced against a "get out of jail free" card like that - the rest of them can be built solid enough to last in any event.

 

Perhaps I will build and play this fellow and change my tune. It does look like Ice/ has had some injustices done to it on paper. I can only imagine this is a "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" situation.

 

I have further iterated on the build and squeezed in every +psi resist IO that Ice allows. I decided I don't care even a little bit about Fire/Cold defense. Both of these damage types are typically paired with Smashing anyhow. This also freed up a spot to try the disorient proc in fault as well. Perhaps I'm leaning too far into the Fault gimmick, but the proc chance is actually pretty good and stacks nicely with Fault's native disorient!

 

Build:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ice Stone: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-ResDam%(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(48), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(9), ImpArm-ResPsi(21)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(17)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ClvBlo-Acc/Rchg(15), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(15), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(17)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(19)
Level 20: Fault -- AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23), PrfZng-Dam%(40), ExpStr-Dam%(42), TrmIns-Dsrnt%(50)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 28: Tremor -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg(29), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Arm-Dam%(34)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33)
Level 35: Hurl Boulder -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg(36), PrfZng-Dam%(36), GldJvl-Dam%(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Sovera]

I would personally not worry too much about psi. I play Fire Armor with no (native) psi resistances or defense and it does well.

 

It does well on a few accounts:

 

- If only some mobs are psi then target them first (Fortunatas in the Arachnos faction for example).

- How often do you fight psi mobs? I find not much outside of Seers. When it happens I can pack a few purples if I get into trouble which segues into...

- ...most of the time nothing survives long enough to hurt if we are playing in a team. Ice does lack the quick recharging heal Fire has though.

- Barrier. Great panic button.

- Like most things psi is usually associated with a Smash component so Smash/Lethal defense actually works on some (most?) psi attacks, while also working for everything else in the game.

 

It depends on your playstyle and what factions you face more often.

 

In the same vein I go with my softcapped defense into incarnate content and don't notice a huge difference (teams melt the enemies too fast) VS incarnate softcaps. Your mileage may vary but it's something you can test and see since my viewpoint is colored by a fast recharging heal picking up the slack.

 

 

Now looking at the posted build I'm leery at all the boosted IOs. They are great if you never ever intend to exemplar but once you do you're going to start losing bonuses depending on how far down you go which is not something that will happen if you just leave them attuned. There is also no point in boosting damage procs or globals like the Shield Wall or Kismet Accuracy.

 

I confess I don't agree with some of your slotting. There is no great point in adding damage procs to Fault since it will never turn be turned into a damaging skill. Hurl is not really worth the power pick either, though if you like the skill and it's thematic then that's fine, but riddling it with procs isn't as helpful when you're hunting for bonuses.

 

 

Overall I think your goals are reached, but @Infinitum is one of our Ice Armor gurus though so if he wants to pipe in you might get more out of him.

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

Thank you, Sovera!

 

I agree with you broadly on psi damage. My own fire tanker has not found it to be a huge problem, but the heal as you note does pick up some slack. Perhaps this will be fine as is.

 

Thank you for pointing out attunement. I typically put more thought into what I attune and what I plus out, but haven't put together a build in a few months, so forgot! I'll need to make a pass to clean this up. I am aware that procs don't benefit from boosting - I can only imagine a Mids setting is at play if they appeared so.

 

I know that my damage procs in fault don't exactly turn it into some type of awesome aoe, but I plan on using it in my regular aoe rotation for mitigation, aggro, and FFback procs. If I'm doing this, the incidental damage here is a pretty decent return on slot value. I'm going to remove the silly disorient proc though - it only lasts 2 seconds. Boo.

 

I absolutely agree on Hurl Boulder - it is suboptimal for sure. I definitely want one more hard-hitting ST attack, and I want to use boulder instead of an epic for theme. Just a case of giving some love to silly things. If I were going towards a more optimized path I would drop hurl, as well as the energy pool entirely, and pick up gloom in place, as well as some other fun extras like Combat Teleport, maneuvers, or a real travel power.

 

Edit:

I went ahead and cleaned up the boosting. Anything not boosted here will be attuned. Decided to drop Hurl boulder in favor of Stone Mallet procced out. Still thematic and serves its purpose, but more efficiently. I think I'm pretty happy with the results!

 

Copying the final build for any who are curious:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ice Stone: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-ResDam%(46), Ksm-ToHit+(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(48), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(9), ImpArm-ResPsi(21), Ags-Psi/Status(50)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(17)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ClvBlo-Acc/Rchg(15), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(15), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(17)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(19)
Level 20: Fault -- AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23), PrfZng-Dam%(40), ExpStr-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 28: Tremor -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg(29), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Arm-Dam%(34)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33)
Level 35: Stone Mallet -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(36), TchofDth-Dam%(36), GldStr-%Dam(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Sovera]

I've changed a few things. It doesn't mean it's necessarily better than what you have though.

 

A few things to remember is that you had more than enough accuracy going so no need for the Kismet. Boosting the LotG means you'll lose the 7.5% recharge if you exemplar down. Also, even with accolades the build will guzzle endurance since you've skimped in recovery slots in Health and Stamina. Not slotting Energy Absorption for endurance will hurt even more since your consumption/recovery ratio is catastrophic with Stone Melee being end heavy. I would personally remove the slots from Taunt or such and place them in Health and Stamina. A six slotted Adjusted Targeting in Focused Accuracy has a nice row of useful bonuses if you'd care to break slots from Chilling Embrace or Fault.

 

That said Energy Absorption will help with your endurance without a doubt but you'll be spamming it for dear life. For single target situations it will be unable to keep up with your endurance needs but that's when you can use a Recovery Serum.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ice Stone: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(48)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(43), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(48), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(9), ImpArm-ResPsi(21), Ags-Psi/Status(50)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(17)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ClvBlo-Acc/Rchg(15), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(15), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(17)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(47)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(19)
Level 20: Fault -- AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23), PrfZng-Dam%(40), ExpStr-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech(27), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(27), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(34), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(37), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(43)
Level 28: Tremor -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg(29), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Arm-Dam%(34)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctArm-ResDam(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33)
Level 35: Stone Mallet -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg(36), TchofDth-Dam%(36), GldStr-%Dam(36), ExpStr-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

 

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

15 hours ago, Sovera said:

Boosting the LotG

Thank you for the thoughtful followup, Sovera! 

 

To clarify, you will absolutely still get the global +recharge from a level 50 +5 boosted lotg, even exemped. This bonus is not dependent on set levels, but simply on the availability of the power. This works similar to other global bonuses that are independent of IO level such as shield wall +res, Kismet, or even the psi resist IOs. The only reason not to boost here would be  cost. I can appreciate why this wouldn't be intuitive - I assumed the same as yourself originally!

Edit: I was very wrong!

 

I'm not married to kismet, but the math works very much in its favor against +4's, especially when exemped. I will typically keep it in my build as a priority unless running tactics. In this build, Focused Accuracy is not an accuracy solution, but more of a high level extra bonus. I don't mind the end consumption of FA, as I don't really intend on running it as a rule. It's just there for when I get debuffed, or if I happen to have end support on the team.

 

Currently, I'm relying on those Taunt sets in Chilling and Taunt to shore up my S/L resist and get S/L defense an inch away from incarnate softcap. I know Ice/ can probably get away without incarnate softcaps for the most part, but I'd like to keep this beefy in any case, even just for extra padding against cascade failure given the lowish DDR on Ice/. However, it might be worth exploring scrapping those sets, popping a kinetic combat 4-slot in brawl, and using the remaining slots to accomplish something else interesting. 

 

I don't doubt that I may well end up sucking wind to some degree even with FA off! I'll take your advice to heart, but feel it out for myself to see how much I end up having to juggle EA.

I hadn't really thought about slotting EA for End. It's not a bad idea at all given the context, as I'm not really relying on its raw defensive numbers to get me anywhere. I also just realized it actually requires accuracy to hit, so may warrant some baseline accuracy which is included in your slotting. Missing the extra S/L and psi resist is not great, but probably not a big deal.

 

I definitely think I'll switch the EA slotting in that case. It does seem a bit of a shame to neglect its defensive component. I wonder if it might be worth dropping the runspeed  Synapse IO (and thus lose the E/N resist) and dropping a plussed out Lotg in its place. Would pull ahead even more on recharge, and  get a little bit of defensive return. Small tweaks! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Sir Myshkin]

Hopped on my PC to post this build and leave a bit more specific note on it then I was willing to on mobile. This is one I have plenty of experience playing personally as Ice/Stone used to be the only Tanker I cared to play because of how much it acted like a Controller in combat when paired up with the Stone Epic, and how well it could hold onto aggro above all other tanks. I did finally take a look at your (revised) build to see what direction you were going with yours, so this should provide a contrast of Incarnate-level-played experience for you to compare against. I don't have any emphasis on Psi res/def in the build and do relatively fine against those enemy groups so long as I'm paying attention and aware of their presence in an encounter. A map full of them may be troublesome, but realistically a bit of patience and bending Hibernate effectively alleviates a lot of that struggle.

 

Some key notes from my experiences:

• Hoarfrost can sort of just be left on auto if you're on a team that's keeping a decent pace. The natural regeneration bump with your HP boost will be a reasonably decent "trickle heal" with a two two minute top-off. If you have things like the Panacea, PT+Heal, and Numina procs those will all add into trickle effect. In truth, this kind of applies to pretty much any character with the Dull Pain clones.
• Fault is kind of a "eh" power. It hits a primary target and then has a chance to spread the KB effect outward from that target, but it's relatively pretty weak. Tremor is a much more reliable ability, and if you're doing it for the FF+Rech trigger, all the more reason to use Tremor as you'll likely be surrounded already anyway, and the ability recycles quickly. If I have a spawn of 10+ around me I can usually keep firing Tremor over and over if I want to super-charge my recharge with FF+Rech activations, although this really only applies to Hibernate and Hoarfrost as nothing else has a long timer.
• There's nothing in Ice Armor nor Stone Melee that needs Hasten. Once the build obtains 70% global recharge everything meets its max capacity outside of Seismic Smash.
• Remember that Chilling Embrace has a -Damage component which acts like a reverse Resistance, and if you can combo that with other abilities like Darkest Night you can give yourself pseudo-resistance.
  • Adding on to this note, the multi stages of aggro for enemies are stacked into their aggression levels of sight, attacked, taunts, toggles, and status ailments. If you can Damage, Taunt, and Debuff a target, they're yours for life, and these are the three things that Ice Armor does very well in just Chilling Embrace and Icicles alone in conjunction with Gauntlet on Tankers. Mobs will stick to you like glue, and in some cases even fight to get your attention if an over-aggro situation occurs and a mob runs, looses aggro, another will immediately try and take its place (it's actually quite funny to watch).
• Stone Melee has several pretty strong ST attacks, but is relatively light on the AoE aspect of life, and Icicles won't make up for that, and Tremors will leave you feeling a bit anemic. Despite how much I may have enjoyed feeling like a pocket-Controller, Soul Mastery offers a bit more effect options for Stone Melee in a very good Ranged attack that rounds out its attack chain nicely, gives it a solid (and ranged!) TAoE, and another toggle debuff that'll stack additional -Dam.
  • On Darkest Night + Chilling Embrace: Some of this will get resisted, especially as you crank up to AV level, but the combined starting level for these will be -44%; that's nothing to sneeze at. On top of the -Dam, Darkest Night also throws on additional -ToHit which will help support you defensivesly in dealing with not just Incarnate content, but the offset chance of defense debuff by widening the gap between you and the enemy that much further.
• Energy Absorption - Sounded like you haven't played around with this much (if at all) yet when you commented about whether it would "fix your endurance". EA is the kind of power you will subconsciously get used to firing off out of habit for the defense buff, and as a consequence every time it'll be a full endurance bar fill. It only takes a couple of enemies for EA to top you off, and it's an auto-hit power so long as there is an enemy within radius at activation. It easily eliminates any and all endurance woes/concerns/considerations/thoughts/what-have-yous. Another neat aspect of this power that doesn't translate well out of Mid's is the fact that the power stacks on itself beyond 10. An initial activation will cap how many bodies it hits, but the power lasts for 45/s, and it is pretty easy to get it down to 15-20/s recharge meaning effective "double stack." At full saturation you'd be talking ~16% Defense

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Echo Gebeb: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Force of Will
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(3), RedFrt-EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(11), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15), GldStr-%Dam(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(25)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(34), Prv-Absorb%(34)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Icicles -- SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), HO:Cyto(48)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(19), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-Def/Rchg(21), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Rct-ResDam%(45)
Level 20: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(37), HO:Ribo(43), HO:Ribo(43)
Level 24: Mighty Leap -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(27), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(27), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29), ShlWal-Def(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), Ksm-ToHit+(46)
Level 30: Tremor -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), Arm-Dam%(31), Obl-%Dam(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 32: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Hurl Boulder -- Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Thn-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(39), GldNet-Dam%(39), UnbCns-Dam%(40), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apc-Dam%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), CldSns-%Dam(46), PstBls-Dam%(50), JvlVll-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(37), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(37)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------

 

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[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

"fix your endurance"

I appreciate the detailed breakdown of your experience, Myshkin. I first assumed that EA was auto-hit, which it is as you say, but Mids threw me off with the accuracy totals thereafter. Keeping solid defense slotting there is sensible in that case. 

 

I wasn't too terribly focused on "fixing endurance," when creating the build, but responding to the advice of others who responded in the thread stating these concerns. Generally I like to feel a build out with minimal endurance support first and see how I like it in action. If I feel like I'm sucking wind, I can adjust accordingly. 

 

I suppose Hasten is almost a force of habit at this point! I do enjoy the tighter rotation of my best ST attacks - I wouldn't say it's entirely useless here, but can understand why you would see less value than usual. 

 

I definitely agree that Soul Mastery would be a very optimal supplement to this combo, even more than usual. I am a bit married to the theme, however, and don't want to rely on Gloom and Dark oblit to pick up the slack. Sometimes it's fun to see how far I can get with the tools provided in-set for damage! It does sound like fault is going to be a pretty flat disappointment from what you say, but I'll play around with it and see. 

 

Your build is very nice! I think it represents a highly optimized iteration of this combo. Compared to mine, you hold the key typed defenses a little higher, while sacrificing modest resists across the board in favor of stronger proc slotting on your attacks, and a stronger overall attack chain both aoe and ST. Honestly the only thing I don't like about it is the Might ATO proc in Stone fist. Although it sacrifices optimal offensive performance, I typically like the Might set in my tier 3 so I have a good reason to keep the proc in my rotation as much as possible. This is means I lose out on some premium proc beef, of course, but it is a compromise in favor of the Tanker spirit. : )

 

May I ask if you actually get any use out of the proc with it slotted in Stone Fist? 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

To clarify, you will absolutely still get the global +recharge from a level 50 +5 boosted lotg, even exemped. This bonus is not dependent on set levels, but simply on the availability of the power. This works similar to other global bonuses that are independent of IO level such as shield wall +res, Kismet, or even the psi resist IOs. The only reason not to boost here would be  cost. I can appreciate why this wouldn't be intuitive - I assumed the same as yourself originally!

 

I'm not married to kismet, but the math works very much in its favor against +4's, especially when exemped. I will typically keep it in my build as a priority unless running tactics. In this build, Focused Accuracy is not an accuracy solution, but more of a high level extra bonus. I don't mind the end consumption of FA, as I don't really intend on running it as a rule. It's just there for when I get debuffed, or if I happen to have end support on the team.

 

Currently, I'm relying on those Taunt sets in Chilling and Taunt to shore up my S/L resist and get S/L defense an inch away from incarnate softcap. I know Ice/ can probably get away without incarnate softcaps for the most part, but I'd like to keep this beefy in any case, even just for extra padding against cascade failure given the lowish DDR on Ice/. However, it might be worth exploring scrapping those sets, popping a kinetic combat 4-slot in brawl, and using the remaining slots to accomplish something else interesting. 

 

I don't doubt that I may well end up sucking wind to some degree even with FA off! I'll take your advice to heart, but feel it out for myself to see how much I end up having to juggle EA.

I hadn't really thought about slotting EA for End. It's not a bad idea at all given the context, as I'm not really relying on its raw defensive numbers to get me anywhere. I also just realized it actually requires accuracy to hit, so may warrant some baseline accuracy which is included in your slotting. Missing the extra S/L and psi resist is not great, but probably not a big deal.

 

I definitely think I'll switch the EA slotting in that case. It does seem a bit of a shame to neglect its defensive component. I wonder if it might be worth dropping the runspeed  Synapse IO (and thus lose the E/N resist) and dropping a plussed out Lotg in its place. Would pull ahead even more on recharge, and  get a little bit of defensive return. Small tweaks! 

 

 

You know, I never did test that LotG thing myself, I just asked on the forums and was told it was so. I should actually check it and see for myself but the gains are so minimal I never bother boosting LotG's 7.5%. Still, it will be worth it to check.

 

I went and tested it myself. I exemplared myself down to Yin which is the earliest TF the LotGs are active (I thought it was Synapse, but apparently not). A level 50 LotG: 7.5% did not give the recharge bonus. An attuned LotG did. So if you're using a level 50 crafted you won't get the recharge bonus. You can use a level 22 LotG and then boost it, but that will make it give 15% defense which is about 1% less than an attuned version gives at level 50.

 

Regarding the Kismet I confess I have my Mids set to show the accuracy against +3 and with FA on. I don't see many, if anyone at all, who does content under level 45 at +4 so I didn't take that into consideration. Content at +4 is usually done at 45+ which is where the Incarnate level boost happens making +4 enemies into +3. At 45+ without FA and without Kismet most attacks are 100%+ hit chance (max is 95%) with the exception of Fault (60% without Kismet or FA. It could do with proper slotting), Tremor (91%, acceptable), and Stone Mallet (78%, easy to fix if you replace the Damage IO from Hectacomb for a second Hami. This puts it at 98%).

 

So, for +3 enemies, you need neither Kismet nor FA to reliably hit. FA's real moment to shine is facing -ToHit enemies like CoT or Banished Pantheon, or DA Tsoo who take a delight in making us whiff for minutes on end.  While Ice Armor has debuff resistance to -perception (like the Smoke Grenades from Arachnos) it doesn't have the -ToHit resist that FA has. So it can be a niche thing but it's a nice one slot wonder for these moments.

 

 

What Myshkin said regarding EA is correct as well. It has a -very- wide radius since it's 12y native +6 from Tanker inherent, so a gigantic 18y PbAoE that will surely hit all enemies in a pack if you jump in first. Even with the Endurance slotting if you hit 10 mobs you get 6% defense. If you're in a team that kills fast enough you can double stack it (even without FF procs it recharges in 20 seconds and lasts for 45 seconds). But even without double Stacking you're well into Incarnate defense territory with those 6%. If 45 seconds later any are still alive they are so few in numbers that they won't be able to do enough damage to outdo your regen.

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

I went and tested it myself.

 

I'm glad you tested! I was going off of someone else's very confident assertation after they corrected me a while back. I was only perpetuating the cycle of misinformation - humble apologies!

 

As for Kismet, the incarnate shift is a fair point, but it is especially useful when exemplaring, most prominently in the earlier levels. I don't really measure FA into the equation.

 

Now I just to to get in there and put up some play time. Thank you both again for all of your help.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

I'm glad you tested! I was going off of someone else's very confident assertation after they corrected me a while back. I was only perpetuating the cycle of misinformation - humble apologies!

 

As for Kismet, the incarnate shift is a fair point, but it is especially useful when exemplaring, most prominently in the earlier levels. I don't really measure FA into the equation.

 

Now I just to to get in there and put up some play time. Thank you both again for all of your help.

 

I'm not trying to push you to change your mind, but if you have enough accuracy to hit +3 without FA or a Kismet then you just need to decide if you are to fight +4 under level 45. Just because I don't does not mean that you don't don't either.

 

I'm glad you're happy to go though 🙂

[Onlyasandwich]

7 hours ago, Sovera said:

accuracy against +3

 

Forgive me if this is obvious, but how do you check hit chances against different level mobs in Mids? I see the accuracy % totals from enhancement of course, but can't find this output.

I've been living in the stone age and calculating by hand or using a chart. 😕

[Sovera]

11 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

Forgive me if this is obvious, but how do you check hit chances against different level mobs in Mids? I see the accuracy % totals from enhancement of course, but can't find this output.

I've been living in the stone age and calculating by hand or using a chart. 😕

 

You go to Options, Configuration, Exemping&Base Values, then change Base ToHit to 48. This is for +3 mobs.

[Sir Myshkin]

13 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

May I ask if you actually get any use out of the proc with it slotted in Stone Fist?

Originally I had a four piece of that set in Icicles because I personally just don’t find that proc reliable in the sense of survival, but I like the bonuses I can drag out of the set. I shifted it over to Stone Fist in a more recent tinker just to see if I could tighten up a few areas; I’m still not 100% satisfied with it.

 

Stone Fist is actually a solid attack, and the rotation the build focuses on is SF > HM > SF > SS  > SF > Gloom which would see a lot of natural attempts to fire off anyway. I also get what you’re saying about wanting to try and stick within a set for full experience, and you could probably get away with Tremors being the only AoE damage (Fault is really just a disorient/kB).

[Onlyasandwich]

17 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Stone Fist is actually a solid attack

I'm just so used to tanker tier 1 aversion these days. 🙂

 

I suppose it is worth noting that even with pretty juiced recharge, stone fist still gets some action in drawn-out ST brawl, and it will be useful in any case while exemping.

 

I like the Might proc for two different scenarios:

• Doubling down on resists in an AV fight to mitigate damage spikes. Slotted in the right power, I'll consistently have 2-3 stacks, which is pretty huge.
• Dropping in an aoe damage aura for lazy whatever bonuses. Even here, I'll be running 1-2 stacks pretty much constantly, even in an ST situation.

I have so many tanks shooting little skulls out of their hands that it's getting kind of old! Even so, I might end up switching to your build long-term out of desire for that extra crunch.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

Now that I have had a chance to play with these powers slotted out at higher levels, I wanted to return with my own impressions. Thank you again Sovera and Myshkin for helping with my build!

 

• Energy Absorption is about 10X as good as I thought it would be, and I thought it would be pretty solid. Even running Focused accuracy and spamming stone attacks, it feeds the end beast quite well, especially when I have FFback proccing. This makes up for a lot of what I perceived as Ice's on-paper weakness for sure. I don't feel like I need to hold it in reserve for a refill either - it comes back fast enough to use pre-emptively for its defense buff, and it's back again in time for a refill. It also animates so fast that I don't mind spamming it. I am still only running base slot in health and stamina with panacea and perf shifter proc - no other recovery uniques or additional end slotting other than one endmod IO in Energy Absorption.

• I actually ended up really enjoying Fault with the slotting I included. The proc damage is not ignorable given the fast animation time, and it chains nicely with Tremor, keeping a reliable FFback stack going, and adding meaningful mitigation when needed. The wonderful tanker 16 target cap helps a lot here as well.

• What everyone says is true - Ice is the absolute superglue of aggro magnets. I not only have multiple auras to passively taunt, but Energy Absorption does double duty as an aoe Taunt as well. 

• I still need to put it through its paces in a heavy defense debuffing scenario to see how well it stays alive in a potential cascade. ITF here we go!

 

 

 

 

 

[Nightmare Shaman]

I think it's truly a problem of perception.  Prior to IO's and the now ubiquitous "softcapped defense" on every build, Ice was a solid tank choice and a fairly common pick for teams.  Power creep and the reinvention of tanking since Willpower and all the newer sets have made Ice seem like kind of an outdated, weak set.  (especially since it doesn't have positional defense)  When considered as a whole, it's a solid tank with unique mechanics that have somewhat under the radar tanking benefits.

It's a defense set, sure.  But, you also have recharge slows, and movement slows build into two powers.  You have a damage aura plus as you mentioned maybe the best auto-taunting ability with both chilling embrace and icicles running.  You have a 40% enhanceable boost to hp which I believe can be made perma.  (never tried)  You also have a very fast recharge aoe endurance drain which significantly helps with running all the toggles.  And, the once unique to ice, hibernate.  I would take hibernate over most other tanker primaries just because it basically ensures you never die and can without consideration refill health and endurance at will.  There's also something really iconic about freezing yourself in a block of ice to heal and recharge during a fight.

I think despite it's old age, it's still a solid tanking set.  Most people probably won't even consider using it because all City of Heroes' perceptions are strongly influenced by mids' builds and the God awful farming obsession that has taken over since brutes and the AE.  I guarantee you can make it strong enough for any team to tank just about anything.  

[Onlyasandwich]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:48 AM, Nightmare Shaman said:

I think despite it's old age, it's still a solid tanking set. 

 

I definitely agree!

 

The unique features I see here are its aggro management and end management tools. These are both far above and beyond what any other tanker primary provides. I would venture to say that end management is even better than Rad/. I definitely underrated exactly how great EA would be going in. 

 

Hibernate is unique as well, but not much of a game changer for me personally. I feel like this is more relevant for a less IO'd out build. I can't think of a situation I've faced yet where I would have wanted it. I can see it coming in handy as a bit of a "reset" if I become heavily debuffed in a bad spot.

 

After living Ice/ for a bit, I don't think it really needs a facelift. I don't even know that adding more DDR would matter, really, though that would be nice. It would be neat if Hibernate had some secondary element - maybe a neat buff when you break out of the block (like a mini T9). I still have it in my build, but it's a bit of an afterthought.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Nightmare Shaman]

50 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

I definitely agree!

 

The unique features I see here are its aggro management and end management tools. These are both far above and beyond what any other tanker primary provides. I would venture to say that end management is even better than Rad/. I definitely underrated exactly how great EA would be going in. 

 

Ice Block is unique as well, but not much of a game changer for me personally. I feel like this is more relevant for a less IO'd out build. I can't think of a situation I've faced yet where I would have wanted it. I can see it coming in handy as a bit of a "reset" if I become heavily debuffed in a bad spot.

 

After living Ice/ for a bit, I don't think it really needs a facelift. I don't even know that adding more DDR would matter, really, though that would be nice. It would be neat if Hibernate had some secondary element - maybe a neat buff when you break out of the block (like a mini T9). I still have it in my build, but it's a bit of an afterthought.

 

 

Hibernate is a power that comes into play if you like to push the edge with the game mechanics.  i.e. Trying to solo 4/8 missions, or farm, or take on Taskforces solo, and especially pvp.  In regular play, it's rarely useful.  Just a nice thing to have.  I think I used it more often when getting sapped of endurance than anything.  

[Sir Myshkin]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:58 PM, Nightmare Shaman said:

Hibernate is a power that comes into play if you like to push the edge with the game mechanics.

Hibernate is definitely a power that folks disregard on paper when talking about an IO world, but in the SO world it was the one pin that made Ice Armor very difficult to work around because it gave the set an unstoppable full heal while it held aggro and couldn't damaged for 30/s. With IO's, most casual players won't find themselves too super stressed to be using this power that often, but those pushing the envelope a bit will find themselves in more dramatic situations. There are plenty of enemy groups out in the wild (especially for a solo player) that can threaten an Ice Armor player, and Hibernate functions as that last little nudge of "I win."

 

When my character was traveling from 32-50 I was Tanking for teams running 50+4 and I had my share of times needing to his that buttonn, but it's an instant hold on the battle field while everything locks down, locks on, and holds tight while you charge back up, let all the debuffs fall off, and come back in swinging hard. Quite frankly if I'm not finding a reason to use that power, It just doesn't feel like I'm challenging the character enough.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Hibernate is definitely a power that folks disregard on paper when talking about an IO world, but in the SO world it was the one pin that made Ice Armor very difficult to work around because it gave the set an unstoppable full heal while it held aggro and couldn't damaged for 30/s. With IO's, most casual players won't find themselves too super stressed to be using this power that often, but those pushing the envelope a bit will find themselves in more dramatic situations. There are plenty of enemy groups out in the wild (especially for a solo player) that can threaten an Ice Armor player, and Hibernate functions as that last little nudge of "I win."

 

When my character was traveling from 32-50 I was Tanking for teams running 50+4 and I had my share of times needing to his that buttonn, but it's an instant hold on the battle field while everything locks down, locks on, and holds tight while you charge back up, let all the debuffs fall off, and come back in swinging hard. Quite frankly if I'm not finding a reason to use that power, It just doesn't feel like I'm challenging the character enough.

 

From what I recall (but it's been so long...) Hibernate shed agro completely so it was a dick move for a Tanker to use it since suddenly boom, wild hungry mobs attacking the herd of squishies. That said if the tank died the result would have been the same, which was what prompted the use of Hibernate in the first place?

 

I was looking at it since I've been messing with Ice Armor builds... and I'm actually impressed. Eve underslotted it's up in less than one minute? Did I read that correctly? How can Ice Armor even be killed if they get nor just a full heal, but the ability to sit invulnerable while debuffs expire 😄