Right Click > Challenge to Duel

[America's Angel]

19 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks

 

Give whatever reasons you want, any changes would have been treated the same way, because it was in fact about "abusing broken stuff." Not that the PvP community could ever openly admit that, knowing how bad it would make them look. But they don't need to: Actions speak louder than words, and the actions and behavior of the PvP community was not consistent with what you claim ever, or at all. Rather it was a pattern of behavior consistent with exploitation, something that absolutely defined this game's PvP.

 

You are misinformed about the PvP community in this game, and this is causing you to spread incorrect information. As I said in my last post, PvPers in this game are welcoming of change, and do not desire to abuse broken stuff. The evidence of this is all of the PvP nerfs that the PvP community asked for, and that were implemented, in Page 1 and Page 2 of Issue 27.

 

Below is a sample of some of those changes. By definition, players who want to "abuse broken stuff" would not ask for (and then agree with the implementation of) any of the following nerfs:

• PvP zones now obey the same rules as the arena when it comes to banning powers:
  • This means that anything previously disabled in the Arena will now be disabled in PvP zones
  • Arena temporary powers now work in PvP zones.
  • All Incarnate powers other than Alpha are disabled in PvP zones.

• The following powers are now disabled in the Arena and in PvP zones:
  • Most Mayhem / Safeguard powers
  • Empowerment Station buffs crafted in bases
  • Most Day Job powers
  • Cathedral of Pain buffs
  • Various prestige / temporary powers

• Fast Snipes
  • No longer grant a +50% range buff in PvP
• Temporary Powers
  • Envenomed Dagger's regeneration debuff is now Scale 1.0 non-stackable when used against player
• -Jump Adjustments
  • All powers that do -jump have had their effectiveness significantly lowered.

• Temp Powers > Raptor Pack
  • Duration reduced from 2 minutes to 45 seconds

• Pool > Experimentation > Jaunt
  • In PvP, this power now recharges in 30s

• Empathy > Absorb Pain (All Versions)
  • Self Debuffs have been increased from 20s to 25s

• Poison > Envenom
  Resist Debuff lowered from 40% to 30% (defender values)

• Stalker > Melee (All Sets)
  • Powerhouse made a large pass through every stalker set to reorganize their effects and make sure their crit damage was correct in both, PvP and PvE. This means powers like Greater Psy Blade might do less damage when scoring a critical hit on players, now.

There were also a series of PvP-only nerfs to the new revamp of Trick Arrow. Trick Arrow was INSANELY broken in PvP, and when PvPers were given two options - to nerf it into oblivion or leave it as it is - they picked nerfing it into oblivion.

 

It's important to note that the above changes were only added to the game after consensus from the PvP community was found. (Everyone had to agree that the nerfs were a good idea, or they would not be implemented.)  Nobody argued against these nerfs so, once again, there was nobody present who wanted to "abuse broken stuff". 

 

It's also worth pointing out that all of the above changes to the game have been welcomed by PvPers.

 

So, to recap:

• PvPers don't like "abusing broken stuff". The opposite is true. They like a well-balanced game, and will often campaign for nerfs to help with this.
• PvPers don't "dislike change". All of the above changes to the game were welcomed by PvPers.

I hope this helped clear things up for you, and anyone else reading the thread.

Edited June 3, 2021 by America's Angel

[AerialAssault]

I reject this idea on the basis that I am the best player in the game, so any duels between players are pointless because both participants pale in comparison to my awesome glory.

 

No I will not present any evidence.

[Tahliah]

Yeah, I 'm a great big "no" on this unless I can turn off all duel requests in Options or via Null.  I want nothing to do with PVP; if I did, I would go to the PVP zones and do it.  I see no benefit to "bringing PVP" to the PVE zones where people have chosen to be in order to enjoy the game and not be accosted by random PVPers.  If PVP peeps want to "duel" that option can be explicit to the PVP zones, which make more sense anyway because they are level capped. 

 

Geez, if I could have an option to be automatically "invisible" to wannabe "duelers," that would make me happy, too.  So not a fan of this idea.

 

 

[Monos King]

4 hours ago, Tahliah said:

Yeah, I 'm a great big "no" on this unless I can turn off all duel requests in Options or via Null.

If this happened then that option would be guaranteed. 

[Tahliah]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:57 PM, Mezmera said:

But what if they come up and smack you with their glove?  Would there be no way to bait you into a duel?  What if they start talking about your momma?

Absolutely not.  If this change were ever implemented, I'd turn it off immediately.  AND I do not want to have to do so on every single toon; it needs to be a one-time global / account-wide click (so in Options, not via Null). 

 

Then I'd have to ignore every idiot wannabe PVP dueller who decided sending me a tell would be a great way to try to "bait me" into something I have less than zero interest in.  In fact, I would report anyone who sent me such a tell for harassment because that is exactly what it would be.    Ditto getting called out in Local chat or whatever. 

 

The more I think about this, the less I like it.  Dueling in non-PVP zones . . . What an absolutely horrendous idea!

Edited June 4, 2021 by Tahliah
edit for clarity

[Tahliah]

On 6/2/2021 at 7:33 PM, Monos King said:

If this happened then that option would be guaranteed. 

Yeah, but then how do you stop them from trying to "bait" you into it?  They send a tell, you put them on ignore.  They start spamming local (or some other chat) with crazy insults or whatever.  This is not a good idea.  Not good at all.

[arcane]

8 minutes ago, Tahliah said:

Then I'd have to ignore every idiot wannabe PVP dueller who decided sending me a tell would be a great way to try to "bait me" into something I have less than zero interest in.  In fact, I would report anyone who sent me such a tell for harassment because that is exactly what it would be.    Ditto getting called out in Local chat or whatever. 

Easy now, this thread is not the place to be telling us what a pleasant person you are

[Tahliah]

Just now, arcane said:

Easy now, this thread is not the place to be telling us what a pleasant person you are

Heh.  Sorry if you find it unpleasant that I have no desire  to deal with PVP duels in PVE zones.  Particularly the case I was quoting when someone is trying to "bait" me into it with insults about "your momma" or whatever.  That would definitely happen and our only recourse would be to ignore and report.  

 

So yeah, I'm unpleasant to not want to deal with people not being content that I've opted out and insist on sending me a tell or using local (or other) chat to try to "bait" me into it despite my clear lack of interest (I've shut it off for a reason).

[MTeague]

17 minutes ago, Tahliah said:

Then I'd have to ignore every idiot wannabe PVP dueller who decided sending me a tell would be a great way to try to "bait me" into something I have less than zero interest in.  In fact, I would report anyone who sent me such a tell for harassment because that is exactly what it would be.    Ditto getting called out in Local chat or whatever. 

 

I'm probably being an optimist, but I don't think it would degenerate into that.  I think, if it were implemented at all

• ideally it would be opt-in, or if it was opt-out, have a radio button with choices of "Accept", "Decline", "Opt Out This Character", "Opt Out This Account."
• people who wanted to duel would likely ingather at some central location. 
• if you're just going about your business and playing the game, you're probably not hanging out at that location for extended periods of time.
  • although, now that I type that, I'm realizing I'm looking at it via story-focused / arc-grinding lenses. 
  • if you did more RP and hung out in central location to do RP, maybe you'd find bored duelers trying to get people to duel them if they didn't have anyone else to fight. 
• I don't see anything a dueler would hope to gain by repeatedly sending someone tells.  The kind of complete jerk super-griefer who enjoys trying to bait people, I would hope, probably isn't a CoH player in the first place. There's MOBA's and CoD and Fortnite and the like for that. 

That said, sometimes people are really good at making me question my faith in humanity. 

Those are days when I take the afternoon to throw the ball for the puppy (and by puppy I mean 2.5 year old dog)

[Tahliah]

11 minutes ago, MTeague said:

That said, sometimes people are really good at making me question my faith in humanity. 

I have experience with only one game that had player dueling, and it was horrific.  There were flame wars in chat because someone didn't want to duel and got called out, then they got angry for being called out, then they finally did duel, which only encouraged the rudeness.  And no, duellers do not pick a particular zone or area to gather, they literally just walk up to you anywhere and everywhere and ask to duel. 

 

That said, we do have an older, though not necessarily more mature, player population, but from my experience with this dueling thing, ti's a disaster for anyone who is not interested.  People would absolutely try to bait people into it, and if even one person bites, that's the end of civility because sending tells or calling people out in chat worked.  Also, PVE dueling  might attract a completely different player to our game, to our home.  I don't want to fling open our doors to the unkempt masses who have no interest in the game beyond bugging people in PVE to duel.  But I'm unpleasant like that.  :)

 

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, Tahliah said:

Also, PVE dueling  might attract a completely different player to our game, to our home.

I...doubt it. A lot of assumptions here, but if you dont like PvP you don't like PvP. That has it's own value, but the "what if I get spammed" and "what if people I personally dont like come" and other such slippery slopes aren't really as valid.

 

Any addition to the game may or may not have consequences; example A.

If you add a zone event to a zone that didn't then naturally more people would go there. More people going there would mean there might be more lag. More chances someone might intrude on whatever event you had planned. More chances someone might kill steal. Etc. We don't prohibit additions based off of natural indirect consequences...especially not when they would come with many options to address them like with this proposal.

 

Essentially, your problem isn't the proposal, it's players. On that note, I think you'll find PvPers aren't nearly as bad natured as you presume. 

[honoroit]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:52 AM, Cirque said:

While I know this feature is very unpopular in some other MMO's, something about superheroes sparring with each other around Atlas Park just seems awesome. Maybe I just have troll tendencies, but there is something fun about getting confused during a BAF or by a Succubus and being able to attack teammates. 

 

I could be way wrong, but wouldn't you just be able to put two characters in a 'confused' state where they are flagged as enemies only for each other? I don't know how this would be affected by PVP rules, but I'd imagine powers would use PVE rules since it would be in a PVE setting. I'd also imagine this would be some kind of instance that either player could quit from at any time.

 

I used to PVP a lot during live and one of my favorite things to do would be to sit in that corner of Siren's Call and watch or participate in 1v1 duels. I think this would also add a fun PVP element for players that don't want to use the Arena interface or make a meta-optimized build on Indomitable. 

 

AP juve death brawls atop the globe, for cash! 

 

Sounds great.

 

Server with countdown and auto flag everywhere... that too. 

[Menelruin]

14 minutes ago, honoroit said:

 

AP juve death brawls atop the globe, for cash! 

 

Sounds great.

 

Server with countdown and auto flag everywhere... that too. 

Now I'm specifically imagining low-level Energy Blasters fighting at the top of a skyscraper; whoever gets knocked off the edge falls to their death!