Invulnerability Unstoppable

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Captain Citadel said:

Is this an Invuln/Staff tank or something? How'd you do this?

Probably Rune of Protection and the number of enemies in range of Invincibility is maxed.

Like this:

 

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Mo Durable 4 Psi: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), Ags-Psi/Status(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(3)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(9)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), UnbGrd-Max HP%(13)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(21)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(23)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(23), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(36)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Mystic Flight -- Frb-Stlth(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(43)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46)
Level 41: Arcane Bolt -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), GldArm-RechRes(46), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(46), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Char -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(48), SprEnt-End/Rchg(48), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(48), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Resilient Core Paragon
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
Level 41: Arcane Power
Level 49: Double Jump
------------

 

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[ninja surprise]

How about changing it to give:

• +50% defense debuff resistance (or something, make it with a base value that's worth slotting and enhancing)
• +50% slow resist
• Immunity to those annoying web grenades that make it so you can't jump or fly
• +Endurance Recovery bonus
• Crash to 10 End instead of the complete wipe-out.

 

That would go better with the theme of being Unstoppable and useful on a fully IO'd toon. It'd be sweet if the T9's gave what the set lacks instead of piling on more of what it already has maxed out.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I can see it has limited uses for traditional zerg play, but I have it on my broadsword/inv scrapper main.  It’s great when I’m in a fight with endurance drainers or in a long AV fight.  But I try not to click it unless I feel good that the fight will be over in three minutes.

[Myrmidon]

On 6/26/2021 at 4:17 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

I do miss the days of Perma unstoppable where stacking unstoppable there was no crash, and I had 90% res to all except Psi.

How many times did you die in the Perma-Unstoppable/Dull Pain crash?

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

How many times did you die in the Perma-Unstoppable/Dull Pain crash?

To my memory I don't remember a crash keeping it perma. There was one if I let Unstoppable drop. Those were the days of 6 slotted Hasten and all that before ED.

[Razor Cure]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:58 AM, SwitchFade said:

While I advocate changing it to an offensive, similar to shield, I am hesitant, due to how it may be an integral part of an SO build

I quite like that idea too. Lower the +resist and stuff to SoW levels and give it a bit of +damage or something, as you ARE going Unstoppable.

[Myrmidon]

On 7/1/2021 at 3:27 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

To my memory I don't remember a crash keeping it perma. There was one if I let Unstoppable drop. Those were the days of 6 slotted Hasten and all that before ED.

Right and you could also Perma both Unstoppable and Dull Pain. The fun part of that was when they would both crash simultaneously and a bug would sometimes cause the Invul to just fall over dead.

[SeraphimKensai]

17 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Right and you could also Perma both Unstoppable and Dull Pain. The fun part of that was when they would both crash simultaneously and a bug would sometimes cause the Invul to just fall over dead.

I vaguely remember that, but then again my wife will tell you that I forget 9 things for every 1 that I remember.

[Replacement]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:39 AM, America's Angel said:

Observations on the above data:

• Unstoppable is a necessary power in PvP
• Unstoppable is not a necessary power in PvE
• Invuln does not need buffing in PvE

 

Conclusion:

• No changes to Unstoppable in PvE are required.

"This power does literally nothing for me so it does not need improved."  This is not what logic looks like.

 

If it were good, it would justify spending a power selection on, or slotting beyond a mule. Things which would cause sacrifices other places.

 

A 0.01% build with a p2w amp, at level 50+ should never dictate power parity for the other 99.9% of players and content (like 1-49, which exists).  Instead of keeping Unstoppable in the suck, this only convinces me more the p2w amps are sin.

[America's Angel]

13 minutes ago, Replacement said:

"This power does literally nothing for me so it does not need improved."  This is not what logic looks like.

 

If it were good, it would justify spending a power selection on, or slotting beyond a mule. Things which would cause sacrifices other places.

 

A 0.01% build with a p2w amp, at level 50+ should never dictate power parity for the other 99.9% of players and content (like 1-49, which exists).  Instead of keeping Unstoppable in the suck, this only convinces me more the p2w amps are sin.

 

Unstoppable is fine in the 1-49 level range on SOs. It lets players have resistances they otherwise wouldn't, and manage the crash with inspirations. You don't need it, Invuln plays fine 1-49 on SOs without it, but it's there as an option to those who want it. Options are good.

 

This thread is more about how it performs at 50, with IOs.

Edited July 7, 2021 by America's Angel

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, America's Angel said:

Unstoppable is fine in the 1-49 level range on SOs. It lets players have resistances they otherwise wouldn't, and manage the crash with inspirations. You don't need it, Invuln plays fine 1-49 on SOs without it, but it's there as an option to those who want it. Options are good.

 

On SOs, a Tanker's Unstoppable works out to about 12-32% resist over time (measured from baseline to 3x SOs [well, 2 in the case of Resist because you're hard-capping]).  For reference, Temp Invulnerability (the primary toggle) is 30% unenhanced.

 

Even that analysis above is way too forgiving to Unstoppable though. 

• More resist than you will need if you've taken basically any of the rest of the set makes the power look more favorable than it is.  The actual Resist gain isn't the 90% listed on the power -- it's going to be closer to 20% S/L and 59% F/C/E/N/T on all SOs.  Even ignoring the trivial S/L boost and using that 59% number, we see a more typical player getting - at best - about 21% resist over time (513s recharge, 180s duration, 59% resist = 20.65% average resist).
• A guaranteed detoggle at the end (an end boost not available to the set paired with a keyboard or mouse macro isn't something you're going to balance around, right?) and -90% of your health as a crash at the end.

We would still be arguing if the power was worth it without the crash, given the spotty uptime and the general feeling of it being too easy to waste a once-per-15-minute power.  Given the statistical overlap with the rest of the set, and the fact that it does its very best to kill you? 

 

No, I do not think this power is good for SO players.  I do not think it's good for moderate IO players (which, given I tend to self-fund and level off of story arcs, is where I typically land).  And as you showed in this thread, it has no value to a high-end pve build (even without the p2w amp).

The options are not good if one of them kills you.

 

1 hour ago, America's Angel said:

This thread is more about how it performs at 50, with IOs.

 

Which is an issue when you are opposing development on an objectively bad power, because of your extremely narrow use case and PvP horse in the race.

 

This is kind of a forum problem overall.  "Balancing" options for fully-completed characters is kind of missing the point.  We have options and so they should be good, and they should be helpful in a general portion of the content.*  I believe a power entry that is always skipped to be a waste of space- one that can lead to a worse outcome than doing nothing at all is just player-hate.

 

*I don't think Invuln needs it, but I would pay minor nerfs to other powers to get there.

[America's Angel]

11 minutes ago, Replacement said:

*I don't think Invuln needs it.

 

Same!

 

And given that Invuln is one of the most popular powersets in the game, I'd hate to see the rest of the set nerfed to justify Unstoppable being improved.

[Replacement]

3 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

Same!

 

And given that Invuln is one of the most popular powersets in the game, I'd hate to see the rest of the set nerfed to justify Unstoppable being improved.

"It" in that context is the nerfs to justify it, since it would be taking power selection/slotting away from the rest of your  build.   So I am declaring "I don't even believe we would need nerfs elsewhere to get to it."  The fact that I'm not afraid of nerfs is neither here nor there.

 

This was a good talk.  I hope you understand this is the absolute, literal definition of taking something out of context to make yourself look like a winner.