Cooldown on macros

[TheZag]

I couldnt find this on a search so my apologies if its already suggested or already available.

 

Is it possible for a macro icon to shrink when the ability it uses is on cooldown?  Or to add a line into a macro to the effect of 'use cooldown of power'  or 'set cooldown #'

 

I rarely use macros and the main reason is because i still have to put the ability in my tray so i can see its cooldown.  I tend to avoid mouse targeted abilities for this reason with my ice/storm corruptor being the exception.  But instead of using macros,  i click to drop all the rains and storm abilities.

 

If its not possible or too difficult to implement then i understand,  but if its doable i would be grateful if it was added to the to-do list.

[GraspingVileTerror]

The idea has come up a few times, although usually in threads with different suggestions, such as:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/29297-stop-respec-from-reshuffling-tray-icons/

 

I wonder if a new Macro Command would work.

/macro_timer <time> <name> <command>
(and /macro_timer_image <image> <time> <name> <command>)

Time would be set in Seconds, and ideally be automatically effected by Global Recharge.  

 

I haven't seen a lick of the code for the Power Timers we have right now, so I'm not yet sure what magic is being worked for that feature.  And thus have no other ideas on how to co-opt it to this intended function.

Anyone else with more insight have some ideas?

[arcane]

I just keep both in my tray. It’s a good thing to do anyway because there are still circumstances when location AoE is more useful than targeted (like setting up a choke point).

[GraspingVileTerror]

Not enough Trays, then.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/14927-save-and-load-command-for-power-tray-configuration/

 

I mean, if I could go up to 15 or 20 Trays, that might do the trick.  Would feel kind of wasteful to have so many instance of Macros AND the Powers they're there to try and cut down on at the same time.

[arcane]

18 minutes ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

Not enough Trays, then.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/14927-save-and-load-command-for-power-tray-configuration/

 

I mean, if I could go up to 15 or 20 Trays, that might do the trick.  Would feel kind of wasteful to have so many instance of Macros AND the Powers they're there to try and cut down on at the same time.

I have never used more than 4 trays. 3 is good for most toons, 4 for Trick Arrows, etc.

 

The thought of 15 sounds plainly absurd. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by arcane

[SeraphimKensai]

17 minutes ago, arcane said:

I have never used more than 4 trays. 3 is good for most toons, 4 for Trick Arrows, etc.

 

The thought of 15 sounds plainly absurd. 

Pretty much all of my toons use at least 5, and a 6th tray is for overflow, and I usually don't even give everything a power tray slot as a home.

 

Regarding the OP's request I'm usually pretty good at tracking countdowns in my head. I'm not opposed to new macro commands so much as it doesn't remove our current ones.

[Shenanigunner]

I will just note that using the original power icons, say in tray three or four, and a bind to fire them in combat, solves nearly all of the problems raised. Speedy activation, and icon cool down timer.

 

I don't think enough players understand binds as a better alternative to either clicky buttons or macro buttons for many things.

[SmalltalkJava]

There is no option.  Like others said, the only way around it is to use a "dummy" tray to hold the base skill that way you can watch for recharge timers there.  You can use binds also instead of macros.  But either way, you will need the skill actually on a tray somewhere.   That is what I do, I usually pop the extra tray up by my target window so the information is available.      I resize it to be 4x3 rows across and down,  or something like that iirc.

 

It would be nice if there was a command to do it like @GraspingVileTerror mentioned

[GraspingVileTerror]

Binds are absolutely incredibly handy, and at the moment I make extensive use of them myself.  However, there are only so many keys on a keyboard, even when you take in to account "(R/L)SHIFT/*CTRL/*ALT+**+" options.  Besides, not every player necessarily has the muscle memory or physical coordination to make use of this many Binds, and would benefit from having the visual indicators available.

And then for people like me who have a small nation of alts, having to create custom Binds for each individual character gets cumbersome and tedious.

 

Timers on Macros (and inside poptrays) would just open even more doors to all of us for ways to personalize our play.  I already provided a (kludge) example of an Accolade poptray in one of the linked threads above.  If I could have a poptray for each category of Temp Powers which included countdown timers, I would then be able to copy that poptray to every alt I have with a single command, saving an inordinate amount of work.

This might even be the impetus for some players to make more alts themselves.  New alts help to keep other parts of the social gameplay experience flowing, and should be considered a net positive to the sustainability of the whole game.

[Shenanigunner]

I don't think there's a shortage of trays even for the most power-loaded build:

1. None of the powers in Tray 1 need to be clicked.
2. Powers in Tray 2 should be buffs and power-ups and alternate travel, etc. — things that don't need to be clicked in any rush (like combat).
3. Powers in Tray 3 should be secondary and auto stuff fired with binds or as 'consequence' powers like Jaunt.

And then if you need to monitor a bunch of other combat and buff powers, put them in tearoff trays sized small and positioned for visual use, not clicking.

 

And, again, use native keys, direct click, macros and binds in each of their ways of strength. Players who try to manage dozens of macros by clicking... I'm sure you have Olympic-grade reflexes and hand-eye coord, but... 🙂

[Shenanigunner]

3 hours ago, Vooded said:

This is what I did on my warshade. Takes an extremely long time to set up (hours), is prone to human error (wrong bind attached to wrong dummy icon), requires playtesting, and all around is just plain frustrating.

 

I know the squids can be challenging to control, but three suggestions for both you and anyone else looking for a better play interface:

 

1. Save, write and edit a bind file. DON'T try to do it with line-entry binds on each character.
2. Start new alts by loading a bind file that's customized to your basic style and choices. [Newcomers and restarters: you can't do wrong by starting with the GABB bindfile instead of the game defaults.]
3. Write your macro define strings in another text file and cut-and-paste them rather than doing line entry and trying to edit them in game.

 

None of this makes the actual execution of binds, macros, combines and optimized play easier per se, but it makes the development and fine-tuning MUCH easier, and lets you move whole command sets to new alts with or without a little editing.

 

You can also develop as you go, instead of trying to implement control for a Vet-level build as one effort. Learning/tuning/developing is much easier as a progression for each new general alt, and can then be copied/adapted to similar builds.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Shenanigunner]

5 hours ago, Vooded said:

Yep, have done all that. 

 

Still too unwieldy a system.

 

I only played one squid back on Live, haven't tried the AT in the new world.

 

But there has to be some system that works for them.

 

How about all of the above... plus a function to roll over all the trays to different power sets for the different forms?

[TheZag]

I prefer macros over binds since they are something i can 'see'.  I cant right click my keyboard and check or edit my bind.  I know there are ways to check and edit binds but its not as easy as for a macro.

[Shenanigunner]

7 hours ago, TheZag said:

I prefer macros over binds since they are something i can 'see'.  I cant right click my keyboard and check or edit my bind.  I know there are ways to check and edit binds but its not as easy as for a macro.

 

And that may be the crucial divide. Macros are entirely in-game; they have to be entered/created by command line , and can be edited in the game interface. Binds can be entered the same way, but only edited using a clumsy combination of /showbind and re-entry. This alone probably explains why so many players are macro-centric.

 

But ya know, it's not that hard to roll over to a good text editor and manage the whole bind set as one quick-to-edit and -reload element. It's just not entirely in the game UI.

 

The other mistake is to [think you have to] create and remember dozens of obscure bind combos. There are much easier, systematic ways to do it. But again, that goes outside the game UI itself, which really seems to hamper/bother some players.

[arcane]

19 hours ago, TheZag said:

I prefer macros over binds since they are something i can 'see'.  I cant right click my keyboard and check or edit my bind.  I know there are ways to check and edit binds but its not as easy as for a macro.

Yeah I don’t like having to remember more keymapping stuff than I have to, so have never used binds.

[Shenanigunner]

On 7/6/2021 at 8:52 PM, Vooded said:

Oh yes. Have done that too. 

 

The system is workable, absolutely. 

 

It's adjusting it that gets old quickly.

 

Coming back around to this now that I've built a squid and run it up a ways.

 

I am not finding any problem with managing the power set, even for two modes. It was trivial to put the Human powers in Tray 1 and the Squid powers in Tray 9, and then use the following commands...

 

[COMMAND] "powexectoggleon Dark Nova$$goto_tray 9"
[COMMAND] "powexectoggleoff Dark Nova$$goto_tray 1"

 

...to toggle both form and primary power arrangement. I've bound these commands to a pair of macros, a pair of binds and a pair of mouse buttons and haven't settled on which option I prefer. (Mostly mouse, with the macros a good way to fix things like resetting to Human form after a defeat, or when I have time to consider which form I want to be.)

 

I am reminded/astounded at how powerful squids are... by low levels, powers are just raining from the sky and builds are way ahead of most other ATs. The only real limitation is that slots are in short supply for so many attacks; made up for by the number, damage and fast recycle of the squid set.

 

So... @Vooded, could you give a few examples of the things you found "frustrating" and "unwieldy"?

 

[nihilii]

I use dummy trays too but it is no replacement for the excellent suggestion by OP.

 

Try playing in 1280x800 resolution on a 15' screen, and see how many trays you can fit on screen before you can barely see anything... 😄 I'm at 5 to 6 trays on most characters, and I basically put the extra 2-3 days in the bottom middle of my screen already because combined with the insp box it would nuke right side visibility otherwise.

[Shenanigunner]

3 hours ago, Vooded said:

f you're playing a multi form power rotation they lead to a lot of button presses. They also don't allow you to see cool downs on long duration powers (AoEs, mires, eclipse). So then you resort to having extra bars. But you also want those buttons to automatically put you into the correct form. But you need a bind to do that, mapped to the usual placement of that particular button, so that you can see the cooldown. It's convoluted to get the required visual information and character behavior.

 

I confess that I completely fail to grasp the problem here.

 

Just how many macro substitutes for the actual power icons do you need/use, and why? It sounds like you're using a very convoluted play style that multiplies all the issues.

[GraspingVileTerror]

@Shenanigunner . . . why are you so against players having the power to play the game in a way that is familiar and comfortable to them?

You've offered your feedback, and you've offered your suggestions on how you want others to play, and they've been rejected by the players who want to see improvements here.

This is clearly not a suggestion that you feel you need, but other players do.  I think it's safe for you to leave it at that.

[Shenanigunner]

3 hours ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

@Shenanigunner . . . why are you so against players having the power to play the game in a way that is familiar and comfortable to them?

 

I'm not.

 

I've played every AT and most powersets since launch, and while some of them are anything but dumb point-and-shoots (MM's, healer/buffers on large teams, squids) I am honestly puzzled why V finds squids impossibly, frustratingly hard to play... especially as his method seems to involve some large number of custom macros that obscure the actual power icons and create the cooldown problem.

 

I guess it's perfectly okay if someone chooses to play... with so much difficulty. My interest here is (1) why/what and (2) with the grasp of UI customization I have, is the problem fixable?

 

But never mind, I guess. I'm having a perfectly good time with my squid, using next to no UI customization at all.

 

 

Also, to the OP's point: macros are so badly implemented, flat out broken in most ways, that having them show cooldown timers is just one of a dozen important fixes that aren't likely to happen. It's a feature that's badly pasted onto the game/UI, barely integrated at all. I suspect a lot of bare-metal code would be needed to change it, for this or any other feature. Would all this be nice? Sure.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[GraspingVileTerror]

I owe you an apology, @Shenanigunner.

For context and an explanation, but not an excuse; I called you out because I made a mistake about who you were in this thread.  I was in a rush to leave with the spouse to go see Black Widow now that the theatres are finally open in our area, and didn't do my due diligence in reviewing the whole thread before making my last post here.  I had twisted your identity with an earlier poster in this thread as a single narrative of negativity.  

Upon proper review, I see that your posts here are actually largely investigative and offering suggestions, even if there's a bit of a disconnect in terms of your play experience not being transferable to all other players.

There's been a lot of nay-saying, defeatism, and pessimism all over the City forums for a long time, and that really tends to get under my skin.  I think we would be a lot further along if there were more open support and collaborative cooperation from the entire community.

So, I'm sorry for my mistake, and I hope you continue to offer suggestions throughout the discussions related to City.

 

 

That said, I do also want to reiterate to everyone that it's crucially important to remember how diverse the player population of City is.

We're not all comic book fans.

We don't all play the game the same way.

We aren't all motivated to play for the same reasons.

 

And that only makes City stronger!

We are all equally valid players so long as we do not harm others.

 

Our diversity gives this game lasting power beyond more insular creations or games meant to be played in only one way.  Emergent gameplay has maintained the lifeblood of many incredible titles, and even revived a few (the history of Speed-Running, anyone?)!
And creating more -optional- ways for players to meaningful customize and personalize the game to their own comfort and familiarity will only ever enhance the game for everyone by keeping more players happy and engaged.  The less obstacles and barriers there are for entry or continued interaction, the more players there can be to support one another and enhance the experience for all.

 

I always support features that serve this end.