LotG Global Recharge and Boosting

[Rahabina]

If you boost a LotG Global Recharge Speed, + Def All will it still exempt down?

[Sovera]

Nope. Keep it attuned.

[Doomguide2005]

     I believe Solvera is both correct and wrong.  You can boost it and it will exemp like normal.  The exemplar effect is based on the natural level of the IO.  Procs and global's aren't effected by boosts.  So if you boost a lvl 50 def/increased global rech the def portion will scale like normal (BUT, and this is where the above answer is essentially correct) the global rech portion will stop functioning below level 47 as that's when set bonuses would shut off.  Keeping it attuned means the global recharge will function down to lvl 22.  The question then is would boosting a lvl 25 LotG to +5 yield better defense value while retaining the global recharge than a lvl 50 def/increased global rech that's attuned.  I think the attuned is barely larger but I'm not sure to be honest and can't look at Mids or in game to tell.

[srmalloy]

From the paragonwiki page on the effect of exemplar on enhancements:

 

Quote

So, for example, a level 20 Karma Knockback Protection Global slotted in a level 50 power will still work if the character is exemplared to level 17 and the level 50 power is greyed out. But Karma's Knockback Protection will stop working when exemplared to level 16 – more than three levels under the Special IO itself. If that level 20 Karma was put into Hover which was picked up at level 6, then the Karma would still stop working if exemplared to level 16, even though Hover is still working.

So boosting a LotG Def/+Rech IO will change how much Def you get from it, but won't change the level at which the global recharge bonus stops working.

[Hedgefund]

8 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     I believe Solvera is both correct and wrong.  You can boost it and it will exemp like normal.  The exemplar effect is based on the natural level of the IO.  Procs and global's aren't effected by boosts.  So if you boost a lvl 50 def/increased global rech the def portion will scale like normal (BUT, and this is where the above answer is essentially correct) the global rech portion will stop functioning below level 47 as that's when set bonuses would shut off.  Keeping it attuned means the global recharge will function down to lvl 22.  The question then is would boosting a lvl 25 LotG to +5 yield better defense value while retaining the global recharge than a lvl 50 def/increased global rech that's attuned.  I think the attuned is barely larger but I'm not sure to be honest and can't look at Mids or in game to tell.

 

Using Mids now, I see the following for an LOTG Def/7.5%

At level 50, the def enh is 15.9%.  This is what you'd have at 50 with an attuned version.

A level 25 version has a def enh value of 12%.

Boosted 5 times a lvl 25 version has a def enh value of 15%.

 

Putzing around a little bit it looks like level 28 is the break-even point.  At 28 boosted 5 times the def enh value is 16.  So it looks like for defense power picks after 28, you may want to get an LOTG at that power pick level -2, then boost 5 times.   The reason I say "-2" is because a power is usable when +5 of an exemp level (your lvl 35 power can be used on Citadel when you're exed to 30) but your set bonus won't apply unless it's less than or equal to your ex level +3.  In the Citadel example level 33.

Note, I'm not advising doing this, each person has to make their own assessment of "worth", I'm just discussing the math.  For me, I'll just keep using attuned and call it a day.

[Twisted Toon]

2 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Using Mids now, I see the following for an LOTG Def/7.5%

At level 50, the def enh is 15.9%.  This is what you'd have at 50 with an attuned version.

A level 25 version has a def enh value of 12%.

Boosted 5 times a lvl 25 version has a def enh value of 15%.

 

Putzing around a little bit it looks like level 28 is the break-even point.  At 28 boosted 5 times the def enh value is 16.  So it looks like for defense power picks after 28, you may want to get an LOTG at that power pick level -2, then boost 5 times.   The reason I say "-2" is because a power is usable when +5 of an exemp level (your lvl 35 power can be used on Citadel when you're exed to 30) but your set bonus won't apply unless it's less than or equal to your ex level +3.  In the Citadel example level 33.

Note, I'm not advising doing this, each person has to make their own assessment of "worth", I'm just discussing the math.  For me, I'll just keep using attuned and call it a day

 

To be honest, that 0.9% difference will not even be noticeable.

0.9% of 15 Def is negligible at 0.135 defense value.

 

 

[Rahabina]

5 hours ago, srmalloy said:

From the paragonwiki page on the effect of exemplar on enhancements:

 

So boosting a LotG Def/+Rech IO will change how much Def you get from it, but won't change the level at which the global recharge bonus stops working.

Thanks!

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Putzing around a little bit it looks like level 28 is the break-even point.  At 28 boosted 5 times the def enh value is 16.  So it looks like for defense power picks after 28, you may want to get an LOTG at that power pick level -2, then boost 5 times.   The reason I say "-2" is because a power is usable when +5 of an exemp level (your lvl 35 power can be used on Citadel when you're exed to 30) but your set bonus won't apply unless it's less than or equal to your ex level +3.  In the Citadel example level 33.

Again from paragonwiki:

Quote

Boosted enhancements function at their natural level; exemplaring does not break bonuses until exemplared more than three levels below the natural level of the IO, like normal.

So if you have a level-28 LotG Def/+Rech, and boost it to +5, it remains a level-28 enhancement for purposes of determining when the recharge boost (the 'set bonus') turns off. So you would continue to have the recharge bonus all the way down to level 25, which is the level cap for Synapse. So you're correct about the enhancement to the Defense value of the IO, but you actually get more utility out of it as you do lower-level content.

[Doomguide2005]

The above is exactly why I started my first post with something along the lines of 'the actual answer is far more complex ... ' and then changed it to the text above (and why @Hedgefund I suspect just uses attuned and calls it a day.)   

 

And that's with just single aspect IOs, etc., etc..

[Sovera]

It's not really all that complex. Complexity is being added for the sake of. What should be measured are the total gains and as someone else spoke above all the attempts at gaming the system add something like 0.1% total to a build. Worth it on a spreadsheet level but about as valuable as the 'I +5 EVERYTHING, even procs!' that sometimes are proudly presented in the forums.

 

+5 everything (of actual value) does add something like 2, or close to 3% at the cost of never ever exemplaring and has no discernible effect in terms of increased damage.

[Sunsette]

It's functionally +25% slots when exemping (and at cap, but more of it is wasted on things that are overcapped usually).

 

The question is really 'do you need your globals and set bonuses while exemping or do you need more of the things they're already good at'. That can be easily be worth as much as two or three LotGs at the teens to early 20s, which is below the level they even work, and comes with the benefit of more of things like accuracy and endurance redux, which are also more valuable at those low levels.

 

The chief reason to prefer attuning over boosting is if you rely on key set bonuses that cannot really be made up by +25% more slots; this is most notable for things that add defense, since they're often worth more than a fully enhanced power of their own. Recharge, damage, and most of the others? Not so much. IDK, I think it's kind of an overblown thing in general unless you're specifically aiming for a particular low-level challenge.

 

I prefer boosting over attuning builds when I have the money because not only does it give me a smidge more performance here and there at high levels where I am dealing with the wackiest stuff, it has a more natural power curve instead of having multiple hard breakpoints in performance.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sunsette

[Doomguide2005]

6 hours ago, Sovera said:

It's not really all that complex. Complexity is being added for the sake of. What should be measured are the total gains and as someone else spoke above all the attempts at gaming the system add something like 0.1% total to a build. Worth it on a spreadsheet level but about as valuable as the 'I +5 EVERYTHING, even procs!' that sometimes are proudly presented in the forums.

 

+5 everything (of actual value) does add something like 2, or close to 3% at the cost of never ever exemplaring and has no discernible effect in terms of increased damage.

     I get what you're saying but those things are subjective to the individual and their build.  And why would it make anything never able to exemplar?  3% could make a significant difference in an otherwise tight build.  That's potentially a difference between softcap or not, perma Hasten or not, freeing up a slot or not in a specific build.  And you're correct a great deal of the time that's not really make or break deal for a build.  The game isn't that hard.  But if you're looking to create your own vision of bleeding edge capable knowing the 'complexity' of your choices is going to be important and therefore, for me anyway, important to include in the answer as to "why" and "how" that decision is reached.

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     I get what you're saying but those things are subjective to the individual and their build.  And why would it make anything never able to exemplar?  3% could make a significant difference in an otherwise tight build.  That's potentially a difference between softcap or not, perma Hasten or not, freeing up a slot or not in a specific build.  And you're correct a great deal of the time that's not really make or break deal for a build.  The game isn't that hard.  But if you're looking to create your own vision of bleeding edge capable knowing the 'complexity' of your choices is going to be important and therefore, for me anyway, important to include in the answer as to "why" and "how" that decision is reached.

 

Academically exemplaring could be done, but in practice it would wipe nearly all bonuses. That is a lot more crippling than finding another 3% defense or haste by manipulating the IO rubik cube. Regardless you're correct that it's a choice, but not one I would advocate for.

[Sunsette]

I mean, either I'm hallucinating or I exemplar really well. Not as well as someone who built specifically for it at a specific level range, maybe, but really well nevertheless.

In the very specific case of LotG +rech it's very rarely a good trade to make, but it isn't exactly condeming your mid-30s build to irrelevance.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sunsette

[Doomguide2005]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Academically exemplaring could be done, but in practice it would wipe nearly all bonuses. That is a lot more crippling than finding another 3% defense or haste by manipulating the IO rubik cube. Regardless you're correct that it's a choice, but not one I would advocate for.

     Good we agree.  That wasn't the choice I was advocating for either.  I was advocating for informed choice not a specific choice.  Builds are full of choices.  Nor is it a matter of all attuned or not, all set bonuses or not if/when you exemplar.  You could conceivably attune enough of a set to get the set bonus you need (say accuracy) then boost an additional slot like the above LotG to end up with both your goals met.  Purple and PvP IOs are already inherently attuned and can still be boosted.  Maybe boosting accuracy and damage will be more valuable than the +x recovery bonus at 2 slots because the rest of the slots are damage procs and the build will be running Ageless or in a dedicated duo with a partner who will supply those end needs etc., etc..  The OP didn't specify.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Typos

[Rahabina]

50 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Good we agree.  That wasn't the choice I was advocating for either.  I was advocating for informed choice not a specific choice.  Builds are full of choices.  Nor is it a matter of all attuned or not, all set bonuses or not if/when you exemplar.  You could conceivably attune enough of a set to get the set bonus you need (say accuracy) then boost an additional slot like the above LotG to end up with both your goals met.  Purple and PvP IOs are already inherently attuned and can still be boosted.  Maybe boosting accuracy and damage will be more valuable than the +x recovery bonus at 2 slots because the rest of the slots are damage procs and the build will be running Ageless or in a dedicated duo with a partner who will supply those end needs etc., etc..  The OP didn't specify.

I was speaking of boosting the enhancement and it not exempting down as this was a discussion in game.  Just that, although I do appreciate all of the comments, I just don't want to waste boosters if it didn't and from what I am seeing I wont anymore.  Thank you! ❤️