Electrical Blast....so many questions

[Snarky]

I am trying to stand up a viable (and actually strong) fully ranged Electrical Blast character.

 

It seems to me Blaster AoE vs, say Sentinel is off the hook.  Hands down winner

 

Surprisingly I find that Sentinel ST damage seems to WAY outpace Blaster.  

 

I have not examined Corruptor...or Dom, or any other.

 

Can I get some feedback on what is really good and what is....something to be aware of?   Thanks.

[SwitchFade]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

 

All build advice removed.

Edited July 22, 2021 by SwitchFade

[arcane]

29 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Surprisingly I find that Sentinel ST damage seems to WAY outpace Blaster.  

This makes zero sense to me. Tesla Cage cannot make THAT much of a difference. Take Char on the Blaster if you’re short a single target attack. Will have to check later if it’s even mathematically possible for you to be correct.

Edited July 21, 2021 by arcane

[Doomguide2005]

     Going to be hard(er) to leverage the -recovery aspect of Electrical Blast if you stay at range.  Short Circuit is pretty vital to successfully use -end/-recovery.  The other blasts outside of the ranged nuke only deliver a %chance at -recovery and to use sapping as an effective mitigation tool you need to both zero out their endurance and their ability to recover endurance.

     And yes with respect to the sapping there's no difference in the amount drained or -recovery between ATs that I can see outside of the changes to Sentinels order and new powers.  But I've yet to create a Sentinel.  And if unable to leverage sapping you're left with just damage and staring at comparisons to Fire Blast, a losing proposition. 

 

[arcane]

Short Circuit’s activation is so bad that I wouldn’t take it unless maybe paired with another sapping set. Elec/Elec defender maybe, etc.

[Dark Dove]

Short Circuit is great, it's 20' and with three damage procs does some fine work.  I'm not sure what I would activate in three seconds that would do more to a group if I was an Elec blast character to follow or precede Ball Lightning.

 

I don't pay attention to end drain but I would definitely take and use Short Circuit on any Elec Blast character.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Dark Dove

[arcane]

12 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

Short Circuit is great, it's 20' and with three damage procs does some fine work.  I'm not sure what I would activate in three seconds that would do more to a group if I was an Elec blast character to follow or precede Ball Lightning.

 

I don't pay attention to end drain but I would definitely take and use Short Circuit on any Elec Blast character.

Well Snarky has this tick about being all ranged that he mentions a few times a day, so it’s out of scope regardless.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

It's been lamented on that blaster electric leaves much to be desired when compared to sentinel, functionally. While blaster damage may be higher AoE, the dev team did a wonderful job reworking sentinel elec powers. By far, for fluidity, function and set up, the sentinel version of elec is the best elec version, this version should be ported to Blasty.

 

 

 

I'd argue that is why it shouldn't be ported. That could have been a stronger balancing point to make blaster AoE damage greater than its blasting counterparts but only shoring up ST by using melee and give the ST blasting edge to Sent (but no one cares about ST anyway). Rebalance all sets around that mentality.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

but no one cares about ST anyway

Well, nobody but the obvious exception of the very visible elite group of players obsessed with pylons and AV’s. And PvP’ers. I’ve been playing around with making my S/T chains better lately, but I simply don’t do enough TF solo’ing / etc to tell if it’s worth it.

[Riverdusk]

Sentinel's nuke is up much faster and the nuke can drain and shut down recovery of mobs all by itself (and at range) for the same duration as a blaster's.  So, looking at just the primary for sapping, sentinel can do it better.  I definitely found the set more "fun" on a sentinel than on any other AT.  Some  of it a smoother attack chain, some of it is probably a case of on a sentinel I felt like an average, maybe even a bit above average, sentinel.  Using it on other AT's I felt below average compared to my "peers".  

 

[Snarky]

23 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Sentinel's nuke is up much faster and the nuke can drain and shut down recovery of mobs all by itself (and at range) for the same duration as a blaster's.  So, looking at just the primary for sapping, sentinel can do it better.  I definitely found the set more "fun" on a sentinel than on any other AT.  Some  of it a smoother attack chain, some of it is probably a case of on a sentinel I felt like an average, maybe even a bit above average, sentinel.  Using it on other AT's I felt below average compared to my "peers".  

 

I am underwhelmed by Sentinel’s AoE performance. But you brought up some good points about it, specifically Electric. So thanks

 

Elite’s need ST?  (This to a earlier post, just jotting ideas down). Sometimes (often) I feel like i am playing a different game than everyone else.  Does no one but me want to take down the last big boss or cyclops or hami or anything else besides regular bosses?  Heck you need to punch hard to burn down an EB solo. So i do look at what to me appears to be a much harder hitting  Sentinel ST chain compared to Blaster on Electric and think…maybe.  It is nice to use a Electric Blaster to swoop in and clean a ton of mobs off a teammate in one big attack chain. But, to me, a lot of the game is ugly little fights against the one mob still standing. ST chain counts a lot. I do not do complex DPS analysis on this stuff but when you pull up 3-4 attacks in MiDs and compare Blaster to Sentinel it is fairly easy to see Blaster does a crapton more AoE damage before even considering target caps. And Sentinels are much better for ST. 
 

also mentioned previously. Snarky talks about pure ranged builds a couple times a day.  I love me some hyperbole   But it is not far off. I have been chasing that unicorn since live.  My Ice Ice Blaster is a good effort at it.  Just looking for options.  Landing those Ice AoEs and keeping it on the people running around is…interesting.  But a lot of work. I will need to compare Electric sentinel ST chain to Ice Blaster to be fair. The rest of my work week is going to be hard but i will try to poke around MiDs on a Elec/Will and see if i can cram phase shift on.  I love me some hit and run. Invulnerability is too clunky on Sentinels for me. And it never quite matures without a LOT of slots

Edited July 21, 2021 by Snarky

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, Snarky said:

And Sentinels are much better for ST. 

Ok so you mean like relative to their damage modifiers or something? Because the Blaster will win in a flat comparison every time unless you’re doing something silly. 

[Snarky]

I am just looking at MiDs. Not at my home right now. But the straight up damage on Sentinel ST attacks were way heavier than Blaster on Electric    At least that is what i saw last night.  Granted i was just done working out and may not have been thinking clear

 

 

 

[arcane]

49 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I am just looking at MiDs. Not at my home right now. But the straight up damage on Sentinel ST attacks were way heavier than Blaster on Electric    At least that is what i saw last night.  Granted i was just done working out and may not have been thinking clear

 

 

 

Verified in COD:

 

T1 and T2 are a smidge higher on Blaster as expected.

 

Zapp is a lot higher than Zapping Bolt as expected.

 

Tesla Cage on Sentinel is much higher as expected, BUT you’re better off not comparing apples to apples here. Electric Blaster should either run 3 S/T attacks or work in something else (Char, a hold from secondary, maybe even Arcane Bolt).

 

And then ofc that’s all just the base damage, and Blasters will benefit more from enhancements. EDIT: oh yeah then there’s build up. And defiance.

 

I haven’t had an Elec/ blaster since live but you implying my Elec/ sentinel was doing blaster s/t damage wasn’t passing the smell test 🙂

Edited July 21, 2021 by arcane

[Snarky]

40 minutes ago, arcane said:

Verified in COD:

 

T1 and T2 are a smidge higher on Blaster as expected.

 

Zapp is a lot higher than Zapping Bolt as expected.

 

Tesla Cage on Sentinel is much higher as expected, BUT you’re better off not comparing apples to apples here. Electric Blaster should either run 3 S/T attacks or work in something else (Char, a hold from secondary, maybe even Arcane Bolt).

 

And then ofc that’s all just the base damage, and Blasters will benefit more from enhancements. EDIT: oh yeah then there’s build up. And defiance.

 

I haven’t had an Elec/ blaster since live but you implying my Elec/ sentinel was doing blaster s/t damage wasn’t passing the smell test 🙂

Ahhhhh.  Like I said I was working out when I got into the topic in the Blaster forum.  A person was saying Sentinels were better.  I looked.  Obviously I pointed out Blaster AoE won hands down.  They had almost convinced me on ST DPS.  I forgot build up etc.  THanks.

[Doomguide2005]

7 hours ago, arcane said:

Short Circuit’s activation is so bad that I wouldn’t take it unless maybe paired with another sapping set. Elec/Elec defender maybe, etc.

      Yes the activation is ugly but outside of Thunderous Blast it's also the only way to 100% apply a recovery debuff to more than a single target and also the only attack to do so for more than (iirc) 4 seconds assuming the attack actually applies -recovery in those cases.   You are going to have a lot of difficulty using end drain as mitigation against up-level, up-rank foes without it or you'll need to team with other sapper builds.  And without leveraging the sapping what's left --> damage which something like Fire Blast is going to do much faster to a given set of targets.

 

     Of course that's just the start of the problem for Electric Blast as you need to do your sapping fast enough so your targets are actually mitigated before the ultimate debuff is applied (death/defeat).  And against those targets (the ones that live long enough) that -recovery is even more important to keep them from gaining end back and smacking you or an ally.

 

     Edit: Good to know the Sentinel nuke recharges faster.  And if you want a Cyclops to not hit Unstoppable etc. draining them and keeping them there will going along way towards that goal.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Snarky]

55 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Of course that's just the start of the problem for Electric Blast as you need to do your sapping fast enough so your targets are actually mitigated before the ultimate debuff is applied (death/defeat).  And against those targets (the ones that live long enough) that -recovery is even more important to keep them from gaining end back and smacking you or an ally.

I know some people build to sap.  I know it can be done successfully.  I look at it and think..."The people who designed Sentinels.  They cut their teeth designing Electrical's secondary effect."  It is that bad.  Like....I just ignore it.  If any other set (no weapons) had a ranged Nuke I would not be on Electric.  I enjoy my Ice/Ice/Cold Blaster but am looking for a point and click.  Not an aim, center, rain, herd into the rain, etc.  Electric punches that dance card.  If there were powers that did not cause redraw or fit a weaponed theme in the epics/incarnates I might use Beam Rifle.  But nothing matches.  So...electric.  But sapping?  It is truly a sweet spot where sapping is even useful.  Most crap dies.  sapping not so helpful.  or it is too powerful...sapping not so helpful.  But if it is a tough boss or a regular EB you might have someone alive long enough to be sapped and still be vulnerable to being sapped.  Yeah, you get a cookie.  Now, make sure you alter your entire build to work on that one guy.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

And without leveraging the sapping what's left --> damage which something like Fire Blast is going to do much faster to a given set of targets.

There is one reason to play electric blast you’ve left on the table: fun/concept/RP etc. 

 

And this is the real reason to play electric blast IMO. Sapping is kind of fun, but extremely questionable as far as effectiveness in battle goes. But yeah, if you completely ignore the desire of players to have fun, varied characters, etc, you’re left with only two options: sap or pick another set. Luckily for me I’m here for the fun 🙂

[Snarky]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

There is one reason to play electric blast you’ve left on the table: fun/concept/RP etc. 

 

And this is the real reason to play electric blast IMO. Sapping is kind of fun, but extremely questionable as far as effectiveness in battle goes. But yeah, if you completely ignore the desire of players to have fun, varied characters, etc, you’re left with only two options: sap or pick another set. Luckily for me I’m here for the fun 🙂

not exactly....in chasing my "unicorn" I have discovered Electric meets a number of my goals.  Dont get me wrong, if Dark had a ranged T9 I would laugh and run off.  

 

My "unicorn" is playing ranged, with softcap Ranged defense, and having a few "O crap" buttons like Personal Force Field and Phase Shift.  i have a partially incarnated Elec/Temp that after one more respec should be pretty sweet.  As it is I enjoy playing it for the fluidity, ease of play, and the POWEr it gives me. Power to relocate anywhere on the map and lay down a whisker crinkling alpha. Power to provide fire support to a team.  Not as good as a fire/elec blapper....but not insignificant.  The Nuke can even help me do ST against long hard boss fights since i can stay at range and apply it.  If things go bad.  Phase shift, force field, etc...  O yes.  Fun comes in many sizes and shapes.

[Doomguide2005]

35 minutes ago, arcane said:

There is one reason to play electric blast you’ve left on the table: fun/concept/RP etc. 

 

And this is the real reason to play electric blast IMO. Sapping is kind of fun, but extremely questionable as far as effectiveness in battle goes. But yeah, if you completely ignore the desire of players to have fun, varied characters, etc, you’re left with only two options: sap or pick another set. Luckily for me I’m here for the fun 🙂

     Absolutely fun should always come first.  It's a friggin game.  I know it probably isn't coming off that way but I 100%+ agree with you on the fun factor.

[Nemu]

16 hours ago, arcane said:

Verified in COD:

 

T1 and T2 are a smidge higher on Blaster as expected.

 

Zapp is a lot higher than Zapping Bolt as expected.

 

Tesla Cage on Sentinel is much higher as expected, BUT you’re better off not comparing apples to apples here. Electric Blaster should either run 3 S/T attacks or work in something else (Char, a hold from secondary, maybe even Arcane Bolt).

 

And then ofc that’s all just the base damage, and Blasters will benefit more from enhancements. EDIT: oh yeah then there’s build up. And defiance.

 

I haven’t had an Elec/ blaster since live but you implying my Elec/ sentinel was doing blaster s/t damage wasn’t passing the smell test 🙂

 

Look at this thread and the first build posted and tell me if you think a well built/procced sentinel can't do more damage than that.

 

My answer to Sentinels - Blaster - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

 

Context is important. Snarky has a specific set of build goals and two very accomplished players/builders have already chimed in on how an offense oriented sentinel can suit that purpose better by being more survivable and do more consistent damage.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Nemu said:

 

Look at this thread and the first build posted and tell me if you think a well built/procced sentinel can't do more damage than that.

 

My answer to Sentinels - Blaster - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

 

Context is important. Snarky has a specific set of build goals and two very accomplished players/builders have already chimed in on how an offense oriented sentinel can suit that purpose better by being more survivable and do more consistent damage.

We’ve been over and over this on this forum: 

 

(1) Can a sentinel do more damage than a blaster if the blaster is not optimally built for damage? Maybe? If both are well built for damage? Hell no.

 

(2) So then we return to the real reason to play a sentinel: mitigation. Problem is, most experienced players are already able to survive as blasters. So once again we come full circle to sentinels being played for one of two reasons: fun/concept... or blaster training wheels.

 

Snarky is doing some kind of playing down the middle here. I haven’t analyzed his build, but it’s clear he’s hoping to find a sweet spot a little closer to sentinel mitigation while retaining a little blaster damage advantage. Again, not commenting on his build specifically. Just came here to counter a misconception about S/T damage someone gave him.

 

Anyway, I can also say all of my Sentinels are all out proc monsters because that’s the only way I’ve found to make them playable. I wouldn’t dare say any of them can match a Blaster on damage.

Edited July 22, 2021 by arcane

[Nemu]

I'm challenging your broad claims based on numbers in a vacuum comparing individual attacks from either AT. Context matters, because the result is that you gave snarky doubt about the damage potential of his specific build based on information taken out of context. Now he can take your word for it and go on believing that his 1st build does more damage than a damage oriented sentinel. But I know at least 2 accomplished builders/players that will say otherwise.

[arcane]

25 minutes ago, Nemu said:

I'm challenging your broad claims based on numbers in a vacuum comparing individual attacks from either AT. Context matters, because the result is that you gave snarky doubt about the damage potential of his specific build based on information taken out of context. Now he can take your word for it and go on believing that his 1st build does more damage than a damage oriented sentinel. But I know at least 2 accomplished builders/players that will say otherwise.

Ok well @Snarky lemme correct the record and state that Electric Blaster damage only does more damage than an Electric Sentinel if both are reasonably built for damage, and your specific build was not vetted for where it falls on the spectrum of survivability vs damage. Good now?

 

EDIT 1: I see what you mean Nemu. An awful lot of defensive sets of 6. Not many procs. I wouldn’t build it that way. But then, if Snarky would, who’s to say he’d build a Sentinel as offensively as we would. Shrug.

 

EDIT 2: I think I only saw one tiny damage proc. Snarky, are things ok at home buddy?

Edited July 22, 2021 by arcane

[Nemu]

I'm not trying to nitpick, and you are probably not aware of his post in the blaster forums until I brought it up. I'm only asking that you take that post into consideration and factor that into your response.

 

My goal is not to have an argument with you, but to allow him to make informed decisions by highlighting the context of our claims and statements.

 

I believe that explaining something in the context of "if you do it this way, this is what you'll gain, this is what you'll lose, compared to if you do that way, this is what you gain and this is what you lose and this is why" is far more informative and beneficial for people seeking understanding. A lot of times conventional wisdom is the right answer but every once in a while based on specific context it's not. I believe this is one of those cases with his build.