Dual Blades attack chain

[aethereal]

So the holy grail for dual blades attack chain is Blinding Feint > Ablating Strike > Sweeping Strike > Ablating Strike > repeat, right?

 

How is this a possible attack chain?  Ablating Strike has a six second base cooldown.  SS and BF have 1.42 second cast arcanatimes.  That implies more than 300% recharge in Ablating Strike (ie, 300% recharge = divide cooldown by four, six divided by four = 1.5 second cooldown).  Can any scrapper sustain more than 200% global recharge?

[Pzn]

It's difficult to get to that with some builds.  Most of the time I end up right around perma hasten with ED capped recharge in ablating and the gap is small enough to not even notice.  And if you are on a team with any recharge buffs it's gapless.  The only secondaries I've hit 300% with had an extra recharge buff.

 

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Pzn said:

It's difficult to get to that with some builds.  Most of the time I end up right around perma hasten with ED capped recharge in ablating and the gap is small enough to not even notice.  And if you are on a team with any recharge buffs it's gapless.  The only secondaries I've hit 300% with had an extra recharge buff.

I saw a pylon video of someone doing it with Bio.  I guess it's possible he had Spiritual or Agility alphas, which could pretty easily get you there, but seems unlikely since it was a good pylon time and I assume that means Musculature.  Even with Ageless, you only get 10% recharge buff half the time.  It just seems nuts to get to 322% recharge.  Even with 30% from a +20% recharge secondary and 10% from Ageless, if you only have 95% local recharge, that's still an insane 127% global recharge from set bonuses!

[StrikerFox]

We can slot five +7.5% recharge bonuses twice. LotG +7.5% has it's own separate "rule of 5" from IO set bonuses like Panacea, Basilisk's, Power Transfer etc. That helps a ton building for chains like that.

Chains looks/feels seamless with a 0.1s gap. So SS and BF cast time is 1.452s, get Abl down to 1.552s or less.

+300% is totally possible. Haven't built a DB Scrapper since live but I made a DB Stalker build with enough recharge to run AS-Abl-SS-Abl-repeat, seamless. Abl recharged in 1.28s; AS recharges in 1.188s. I was doing pylon times with it on Beta. It was pretty nuts, Hasten is perma with no slots or IOs added.

[oldskool]

7 hours ago, aethereal said:

So the holy grail for dual blades attack chain is Blinding Feint > Ablating Strike > Sweeping Strike > Ablating Strike > repeat, right?

 

How is this a possible attack chain?  Ablating Strike has a six second base cooldown.  SS and BF have 1.42 second cast arcanatimes.  That implies more than 300% recharge in Ablating Strike (ie, 300% recharge = divide cooldown by four, six divided by four = 1.5 second cooldown).  Can any scrapper sustain more than 200% global recharge?

 

Super Reflexes can get you to 201+% global recharge pretty easily.  An ATO, like Super Critical Strikes, can get you 99%.  That'll set Ablating Strike to 1.5s cooldown.  

 

Super Reflexes can also stack 1 LotG with 5x Red Fortune to get an effective 12.5% recharge out of a few powers.  My Scrapper has that in 3 powers.  Reactive Defense, full set, is a nice 8.75%, and there is plenty of room for 5x purple sets at 10% each.  

 

I'm tinkering with this myself.  Right now, I'm looking at Hecatomb + Achilles' Heel in Ablating Strike which cuts the recharge down to 1.66s for me if I do nothing else.  Sweeping gets Armageddon + Fury of the Gladiator.  Blinding Feint has some room for procs.  

Even with a 1.66 cooldown the attack chain is still pretty solid.  I could also swap out AB with Power Slice.  It is lower overall damage but requires less recharge.  

I am curious though where good places to put the ATOs are.  The global crit one is kind of a no-brainer as a mule somewhere, but the Super Critical Strikes has options.  Right now, I have it in Typhoon's Edge as it seems more practical in AoE situations.  Since I solo a lot, I value the Achilles' Heel and Fury of the Gladiator combo.  I guess I could dump that if there is a better way to go.  

[aethereal]

I'm putting the +50% ATO one in Blinding Feint, which I'll spam on cooldown even in AoE situations for the to-hit/damage bonus.

[oldskool]

Was considering the same change.

[00Troy00]

Does anyone have a build that accomplishes this? I've been interested in DB/SR for a while now for just this reason, but I suck at builds.

[hejtmane]

Been so long I think i got pretty close with EA on live  +recharge from Entropic Aura and tons of IO and hasten  so you may also want to look that option

[Sovera]

Or swap Sweeping for Vengeful. That extra one point two second of animation tidies the rotation demanding less recharge sacrifices with the bonus of working a FF proc into it to speed all other cooldowns.

[oldskool]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:33 PM, Sovera said:

Or swap Sweeping for Vengeful. That extra one point two second of animation tidies the rotation demanding less recharge sacrifices with the bonus of working a FF proc into it to speed all other cooldowns.

 

If the idea is to include Vengeful Slice, then people may as well just use Attack Vitals.  Attack Vitals includes both Ablative Strike and Sweeping Strike.  Vengeful Slice is the filler between the two.  Getting Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals to work gapless takes significantly less investment than going comboless.  If recharge is still an issue, then adding Power Slice to the end of Attack Vitals is another way to go.  

 

Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals -> Power Slice doesn't even require Hasten.  You can get this on just set bonuses for recharge with some recharge reduction in Blinding Feint (because that is the hurdle to cross here).  You can easily get Blinding Feint to recharge in less than 6.864 seconds (the animation barrier here) with very very low investment.  

 

Blinding Feint -> Ablative Strike -> Sweeping Strike -> Power Slice is the compromise choice if you're sub 300% recharge in Ablative Strike.  Super Reflexes can meet or exceed 160% global recharge which should open up this option to pretty much anyone spending a lot of investment in the power combo.  

 

Vengeful Slice, even with procs, is not that great outside of the Attack Vitals combo.  Once a player stacks more and more recharge the value of Attack Vitals starts to diminish.  Still, this isn't to say BF -> Attack Vitals is bad.  That entire attack flow often gets spoken about if it is total garbage, and it isn't.  That is one of the beauties of Dual Blades.  It really doesn't require massive amounts of recharge to function which allows it to pair with so many different armor sets.  That by itself is pretty amazing.  If you want to take Dual Blades to the absolute maximum of its performance, and it still doesn't require this, you have to pile on ridiculous levels of recharge.  

 

 

[hejtmane]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:45 AM, oldskool said:

 

If the idea is to include Vengeful Slice, then people may as well just use Attack Vitals.  Attack Vitals includes both Ablative Strike and Sweeping Strike.  Vengeful Slice is the filler between the two.  Getting Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals to work gapless takes significantly less investment than going comboless.  If recharge is still an issue, then adding Power Slice to the end of Attack Vitals is another way to go.  

 

Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals -> Power Slice doesn't even require Hasten.  You can get this on just set bonuses for recharge with some recharge reduction in Blinding Feint (because that is the hurdle to cross here).  You can easily get Blinding Feint to recharge in less than 6.864 seconds (the animation barrier here) with very very low investment.  

 

Blinding Feint -> Ablative Strike -> Sweeping Strike -> Power Slice is the compromise choice if you're sub 300% recharge in Ablative Strike.  Super Reflexes can meet or exceed 160% global recharge which should open up this option to pretty much anyone spending a lot of investment in the power combo.  

 

Vengeful Slice, even with procs, is not that great outside of the Attack Vitals combo.  Once a player stacks more and more recharge the value of Attack Vitals starts to diminish.  Still, this isn't to say BF -> Attack Vitals is bad.  That entire attack flow often gets spoken about if it is total garbage, and it isn't.  That is one of the beauties of Dual Blades.  It really doesn't require massive amounts of recharge to function which allows it to pair with so many different armor sets.  That by itself is pretty amazing.  If you want to take Dual Blades to the absolute maximum of its performance, and it still doesn't require this, you have to pile on ridiculous levels of recharge.  

 

 

Think this is what I ran on live Blinding Feint -> Ablative Strike -> Sweeping Strike -> Power Slice  I just hate Vengeful slice animation and was just short of the 300%

[SomeGuy]

This build easily does both the MB chain and the standard "best" DB chain. It also doesn't take three attacks (cause you don't use them with this build). And Power Slice is a set mule, but also good if you ever need to exemp that low. Between Sweeping Strike and Typhoon's Edge being on an incredibly fast recharge, you'll be fine on AOE.

 

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[Thrax]

I tried both and I prefer the Attack Vitals.  It is just more fun I think and awesome for the aoe as the attack vitals dot hits everything the last power hits as well.  He is DB/SR and Has BF to Attack Vitals without Hasten.  Here is the build.  Took 1k cuts cause it is just fun and another good aoe attack.  

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1366&c=669&a=1338&f=HEX&dc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