What's The Optimal Solo Scrapper?

[SeraphimKensai]

I've never had an issue with mobs wandering off from my claws/stone scrapper. Maybe it's focus/shockwave, but in collaboration with mud pots, but they tend not to survive long enough to get away.

 

That said I'm leveling up an axe/bio scrapper currently, so I'll compare agro between them.

[aethereal]

Everyone is of course entitled to their personal opinions.  If a player really values a taunt aura, then they really value a taunt aura, and that's fine.

 

But, like, taunt auras aren't that big a deal.  I have leveled several Stalkers to 50 and several aura-less Scrappers to 50, and also some Brutes and Tankers and taunt-aura Scrappers, generally at high multipliers on team size, almost entirely solo, and it's just... not that big a deal.  Is it nice to have a taunt aura?  I guess.  There are a few enemies like Warwolves who run away a lot and they're frustrating.  For the most part, it's not very noticeable in play.

 

The constant chorus of a few players who come in to say that they absolutely need a taunt aura to consider playing a set sort of strikes me as like if I went to every thread on Stone Armor and Shield to say, "I find the aesthetics of Stone Armor/Shield objectionable and I will not use these armors."  Like, it's true.  And I'm certainly entitled to that opinion.  But it also feels pretty personal and not really worth trying to tell people millions of times about.

[lemming]

4 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Everyone is of course entitled to their personal opinions.  If a player really values a taunt aura, then they really value a taunt aura, and that's fine.

 

But, like, taunt auras aren't that big a deal. 

That's my feeling.  I have a bunch of scrappers and yea, occasional runners happen, but they just die tired.

[SomeGuy]

I had a RM/Stone scrapper I had to gut and shelve it cause of runners. It was bonkers. After the opener, whatever wasn't dead, would do it's best impersonation of Usain Bolt.

[StriderIV]

16 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I think my answer for optimal solo Scrapper is Dark/shield. Note, I'm not saying it is the most fun, but just the most optimal. In terms of SR's lack of taunt aura, that's what ranged attacks and mezzes are for. Mobs don't run away if the are KDed or disoriented. 

Yeah, honestly DM/Shield just feels like it has no holes. Just solid across the board in every facet. Jack of all trades, master of some? 😂

[Erratic1]

On 12/9/2024 at 9:14 AM, Without_Pause said:

I think my answer for optimal solo Scrapper is Dark/shield. Note, I'm not saying it is the most fun, but just the most optimal. In terms of SR's lack of taunt aura, that's what ranged attacks and mezzes are for. Mobs don't run away if the are KDed or disoriented. 

 

It is a nice wedding of capabilities and weak spot cross-covering. The closest I can think of bringing similar to the table would be Claws/EA or Claws/Nin--the former being the more offensive of the two with the latter being the more survivable.

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

It is a nice wedding of capabilities and weak spot cross-covering. The closest I can think of bringing similar to the table would be Claws/EA or Claws/Nin--the former being the more offensive of the two with the latter being the more survivable.

Maybe someday I will get past /nin being click heavier and get one to 50. I just feel like that ship has sailed. 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Without_Pause said:

Maybe someday I will get past /nin being click heavier and get one to 50. I just feel like that ship has sailed. 

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I set the status-protection power to autofire, then only use the heal or +end power when needed.  Everything else is either a toggle, an auto power, or so situational that I don't consider it a normal part of my power rotation...

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

Maybe someday I will get past /nin being click heavier and get one to 50. I just feel like that ship has sailed. 

 

Not a personal criticism, but I honestly do not get how being able to click a power to address a need/situation is so onerous to so many. DM has a click Endurance recovery power, so does Nin. Nin adds a click-heal (DM's being part of its attack, so doesn't count). One whole extra click power and yet you'd think it was like playing Rachmaninoff on a piano.

Edited December 10 by Erratic1

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

Maybe someday I will get past /nin being click heavier and get one to 50. I just feel like that ship has sailed. 

 

Let me throw this out there, not that I actually expect to change anyone's mind, but:

 

• If you're playing Homecoming at this point, you've probably got like 10 years+++ of City of Heroes under your belt.
• Homecoming drops like maybe one new piece of content per year if you're lucky
• What's everyone on, their 50th Scrapper?  More?
• You've done every mission in this game.  You've probably done most of them 10+ times.
• Are you sure that what you need is more simplicity in play?
• One understands the appeal of a set-and-forget armor when you're on your first, or fifth, armored class
• But aren't there a lot of you out there who'd like a play experience that is more engaged and thoughtful, not less?
• Clicky armors add a layer of tactical decision making that, for me, I became more and more appreciative of as I got more play experience

[biostem]

1 minute ago, aethereal said:

Clicky armors add a layer of tactical decision making that, for me, I became more and more appreciative of as I got more play experience

In general I agree, but with the caveat that the the clicks should be "organic" within the set, and not feel too forced.  For instance, imagine if ALL the powers with in a given armor set were clicks with set durations - so your basic shields, status protection, etc - It'd be a nightmare to manage, and the powers likely couldn't be given values high enough to offset that clunkyness...

[Spaghetti Betty]

20 minutes ago, biostem said:

In general I agree, but with the caveat that the the clicks should be "organic" within the set, and not feel too forced.  For instance, imagine if ALL the powers with in a given armor set were clicks with set durations - so your basic shields, status protection, etc - It'd be a nightmare to manage, and the powers likely couldn't be given values high enough to offset that clunkyness...

I'd play that!

[archgemini24]

On 12/10/2024 at 6:27 PM, biostem said:

In general I agree, but with the caveat that the the clicks should be "organic" within the set, and not feel too forced.  For instance, imagine if ALL the powers with in a given armor set were clicks with set durations - so your basic shields, status protection, etc - It'd be a nightmare to manage, and the powers likely couldn't be given values high enough to offset that clunkyness...

 

That last part is the kicker. A click-intensive set, if played well and balanced for the loss of offense due to activation times and for having to require more attention, should be far more effective in boosting your performance (defensively and offensively) than a set with all toggles or passives. I have no idea how difficult it would be to find the sweet spot that makes the set worth taking and mastering but not breaking the game, because if it does not or cannot do all that, would the set be worth running, at all?

 

I am thinking of two ways the powers might function: higher base mitigation values than normal but the powers are unaffected by recharge and slows, or slightly lower base mitigation values that are impacted by recharge and slows, but could stack.

[Erratic1]

52 minutes ago, archgemini24 said:

 

That last part is the kicker. A click-intensive set, if played well and balanced for the loss of offense due to activation times and for having to require more attention, should be far more effective in boosting your performance (defensively and offensively) than a set with all toggles or passives. I have no idea how difficult it would be to find the sweet spot that makes the set worth taking and mastering but not breaking the game, because if it does not or cannot do all that, would the set be worth running, at all?

 

I am thinking of two ways the powers might function: higher base mitigation values than normal but the powers are unaffected by recharge and slows, or slightly lower base mitigation values that are impacted by recharge and slows, but could stack.

 

Bio is "known" as a clicky set.

• It gives you a damage aura and an Offensive Stance which adds toxic damage to all your attacks.
• Its click powers are Ablative Carapace (cast time 2.03s every 90s), DNA Siphon (cast time 1.6s every 90s), and Parasitic Aura (cast time 1.8s every 270s).

If you are using the powers every single time they are up, you are losing 12.69s out of every 270s doing 7 click. That is 4.7% of the timeframe occupied with clicks.

 

I don't know, but I have to think the offensive gains more than offset the 7 clicks across 4.5 minutes...before we consider that actually living means you will continue to deal damage as opposed to waste time face-planted and/or travelling back from a hospital. Or that one of those click powers increases your regeneration and recovery so you can continue to deal out damage when otherwise you might have run out of endurance or health and not been dealing damage.

 

I am not sure how the word intensive means when the powers are on cooldowns of 90s/270s by default. You are clicking attacks considerably more often. 

[aethereal]

In fairness, recharge enhancement, both local and global, are very much a thing.  I don't think it's that meaningful to talk about the unenhanced recharge values of bio clicks.

 

But I agree with the overall point that it's not super hard to give a "click heavy" set (even one that's substantially more click-heavy than bio) enough offensive boost that it makes up for the lost cast time.

[Erratic1]

33 minutes ago, aethereal said:

In fairness, recharge enhancement, both local and global, are very much a thing.  I don't think it's that meaningful to talk about the unenhanced recharge values of bio clicks.

 

But I agree with the overall point that it's not super hard to give a "click heavy" set (even one that's substantially more click-heavy than bio) enough offensive boost that it makes up for the lost cast time.

 

90s/270s cooldowns....

 

If you are at +100% cooldown that becomes 45s/135s, or seven clicks in 1m 15s at most...with you obviously not making the clicks if they are unnecessary. Were you playing a musical piece at 7 notes every minute and a quarter it would make dirges seem like the Flight of the Bumblebee. And global recharge applies to your attacks too, so you're not proportionately giving up any more in that regard.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

FYI, as mentioned before on this forum, I ODed on Kin on Live. My namesake is from my Claws/regen on Live. I have a Level 50 /bio Brute and a Level 30 /rad one. I just found I got lazier and older. I don't mind something which has a click, but I start to be less excited about ones with two or more. Even my EA builds I try to do where clicking is minimized. Since I have repeatedly stuck with Claws, I would simply rather keep clicking on attacks versus things to keep me up and running. I ha d alow level Claws/nin, but I couldn't figure out why it was really all that better than EA or SR, so I rerolled it to something else. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Following up from a few days ago. I leveled my axe/bio scrapper and comparing that to my recent claws/stone and tw/ninjitsu....

 

I really like the play of the axe/bio and claws/stone, even moreso than the tw/ninja. All three are pretty survivable with the TW/Nin and the Claws/Stone winning out there. The claws has more ranged which gives it some utility for runners, but the axe has a taunt aura which helps synergize with bio (and axe cyclone really fits there like a glove).

 

All in all I have a feeling that the axe/bio will likely get more play time than the tw/nin, and the claws/stone will likely end up in the middle between the three.

 

I already like all three of these better than my other lvl 50 scrappers:

• Tw/elec
• Db/nin
• Ice/ice
• Sj/RAD
• Dm/SD
• Psi/SD
• Rad/DA
• Spines/Regen
• EM/Bio
• Elec/SR
• And claws/energy

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Following up from a few days ago. I leveled my axe/bio scrapper and comparing that to my recent claws/stone and tw/ninjitsu....

 

I really like the play of the axe/bio and claws/stone, even moreso than the tw/ninja. All three are pretty survivable with the TW/Nin and the Claws/Stone winning out there. The claws has more ranged which gives it some utility for runners, but the axe has a taunt aura which helps synergize with bio (and axe cyclone really fits there like a glove).

 

All in all I have a feeling that the axe/bio will likely get more play time than the tw/nin, and the claws/stone will likely end up in the middle between the three.

 

I already like all three of these better than my other lvl 50 scrappers:

• Tw/elec
• Db/nin
• Ice/ice
• Sj/RAD
• Dm/SD
• Psi/SD
• Rad/DA
• Spines/Regen
• EM/Bio
• Elec/SR
• And claws/energy

Glad you're enjoying the Axe/Bio! Such a beast combo. Some questions on this:
 

• What about your Claws/Stone makes you like it more than your Claws/Energy?
• STJ/Rad seems super synergistic. Do you feel it is lacking overall or just not as fun?
• Lastly, DM/Shield I think is largely considered one of the "OG" optimal Scrapper combos. Similar to the question above, do you feel it was lacking in your experience or just didn't have the same fun factor for you?

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, StriderIV said:

 

• What about your Claws/Stone makes you like it more than your Claws/Energy? They are both very survivable, but I think stone armor actually comes out on top defensively as it blends resistance, and more HP into the equation. Additionally brimstone gives more damage, and mud pots helps slow mobs escape. I've really liked the revised stone armor set, including Geode.
• STJ/Rad seems super synergistic. Do you feel it is lacking overall or just not as fun? I built this one maybe 4-5 years ago, and it was fun, but maybe it became a old toy in the toy box. I personally prefer rad on Brute/Tanks personally. But it gets the job done.
• Lastly, DM/Shield I think is largely considered one of the "OG" optimal Scrapper combos. Similar to the question above, do you feel it was lacking in your experience or just didn't have the same fun factor for you? The combination works well enough, but since I IO absolutely every toon I make the tohit debuff from dark melee wasn't necessary to pair with the defense from shield. I'm not the biggest fan on the animation of shadow maul personally and prefer it on tankers given the arc once with gauntlet.

I embedded my responses as underlined comments with yours in the quote.

[Greldek]

11 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Glad you're enjoying the Axe/Bio! Such a beast combo. Some questions on this:
 

• What about your Claws/Stone makes you like it more than your Claws/Energy?
• STJ/Rad seems super synergistic. Do you feel it is lacking overall or just not as fun?
• Lastly, DM/Shield I think is largely considered one of the "OG" optimal Scrapper combos. Similar to the question above, do you feel it was lacking in your experience or just didn't have the same fun factor for you?

Dm/sd, is to me, a safe, and boring, training wheels build, that doesn't feel very scrappy. Id rather just play a tanker or brute if I'm that worried about survival.

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Greldek said:

Dm/sd, is to me, a safe, and boring, training wheels build, that doesn't feel very scrappy. Id rather just play a tanker or brute if I'm that worried about survival.

 

 

What.

[SeraphimKensai]

21 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

What.

Yeah.

[StriderIV]

On 12/18/2024 at 8:16 PM, Greldek said:

Dm/sd, is to me, a safe, and boring, training wheels build, that doesn't feel very scrappy. Id rather just play a tanker or brute if I'm that worried about survival.

 

On 12/18/2024 at 9:33 PM, SomeGuy said:

 

 

What.

 

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Yeah.

To each their own I guess! Shield Charge + Shadow Maul really puts me in the middle of things, so I feel pretty scrappy haha.

[SeraphimKensai]

5 hours ago, StriderIV said:

 

 

To each their own I guess! Shield Charge + Shadow Maul really puts me in the middle of things, so I feel pretty scrappy haha.

You were supposed to reply "Okay."