Sonic as a Defender Primary

[Gentoo]

What do you make of this set as a primary?

 

It has better -res than it would as a secondary on a Corrupter or Controller, right?

 

Some of the best moves are ally only, so that makes it not very soloable on a Defender, but quite effective on a controller who gets a melee based pet, right?

 

Is it great in a team setting?

 

 

[Psylenz0511]

15 hours ago, Gentoo said:

What do you make of this set as a primary?

 

It has better -res than it would as a secondary on a Corrupter or Controller, right?

 

Some of the best moves are ally only, so that makes it not very soloable on a Defender, but quite effective on a controller who gets a melee based pet, right?

 

Is it great in a team setting?

 

 

 

The -resist is best on a defender. Sonic does NOT solo as well as other Primaries. Masterminds also work well with the sonic shields and aura on a melee pet. Teaming is a sonic defender's best bet. The sonic debuff aura turns tanks into very chewy brutes, ... and blappers into roadkill, but the shields do help... Our all defender group has shown that defenders that like or thrive in melee range can also wear the sonic hula hoop. Poison defenders are a good example of this. The sonic shields make them more survivable, too. Another point, Liquefy gets better numbers on defenders and it often overlooked or even skipped. It's not a fulcrum shift level buff/debuff, but its quite useful if not gaudy in implementation.

[Doomguide2005]

     Sonic is a very solid team-oriented defender.  It's -30% resistance vs -22.5% resistance on both Sonic Siphon and Disruption Field and +20% resistance vs +15% resistance for the Ally shields defender vs corruptor, controller.  A Sonic/Sonic defender can very rapidly turn a melee allies foe into something very squishy easily and rapidly hitting triple digit resistance debuffs (-100% after 3 attacks plus Field).  Late game where defense capped allies abound fewer are resistance capped making the shields valuable.  Early in i9 (the first issue with IOs) I was on a level 50 team doing a then brand new MoSTF.   Very few IOs on those characters and we utterly tore the final 4 AVs apart taking them on all together.  One of the 7 defenders was a Sonic/Sonic (and the 8th was a Fire/Kin controller).   

[drgantz]

What is a good primary with a Sonic Defender?  I've read that Kinetics isn't good because it has too many clicks, making it difficult to attack and debuff.  I saw one post saying that Empathy is good.  I'm sure that Sonic/Sonic is good as well.

[Doomguide2005]

The more Fire and Forget sets.  Cold/Sonic is a very potent AV, GM, Hard target killer for example with tons of -resistance and -regen available.

[SableShrike]

This’s lategame, but you can get a Patron pet like Leviathan’s Coralax permanent with enough +recharge bonuses.

 

If running Sonic/ or Force Field/ it’s something I would build for.  FF/ is probably a smidge better here as they can softcap the pet’s Defense.

 

The extra damage the pet brings while you blast away is noticeable.  My Coralax hits for as much as my better blasts (100-150 per attack) and will fight in melee. 

 

Kinda like playing as a duo!

[shaggy]

Kinetics really isn't that clicky, unless you're spamming your heal and siphon power. Once you get Fulcrum shift though, your team will shred ANYTHING paired with your -res.

[Psylenz0511]

11 hours ago, shaggy said:

Kinetics really isn't that clicky, unless you're spamming your heal and siphon power. Once you get Fulcrum shift though, your team will shred ANYTHING paired with your -res.

 

My question is: why would you not want to be a clicky kinetic seeing as you can debuff or blast secondary powers until the animations stack up and you literally can't fire off more options in even the highest recharge situations?

 

[MoonSheep]

On 9/9/2021 at 6:36 PM, drgantz said:

What is a good primary with a Sonic Defender?  I've read that Kinetics isn't good because it has too many clicks, making it difficult to attack and debuff.  I saw one post saying that Empathy is good.  I'm sure that Sonic/Sonic is good as well.

 

i only play 2 alts since returning - one is a kin/sonic defender. it’s a fantastic combination on teams. having everyone with capped damage then being able to add some meaty -res is very good fun

[Doomguide2005]

     Empathy/Sonic is very solid but Empathy is a fairly busy set which makes it a bit of "Do I stack -resist or cast my buffs" (Fortitude in particular demands a lot of attention).  The reason it's often recommended for Empathy defenders (and this probably applies to corruptor Empaths as well) is Empathy has no debuffs to help out vs hard targets (no Tar Patch, Freezing Rain, Lingering Rad, Benumb etc.) and Sonic Attack gives them a highly desirable debuff with its blasts.

     As for Kins when many of its buffs became AoEs it got a lot less click happy then its original self.  Now instead of 7 clicks to spread Speed Boost, 7 more for Increased Density, 7 for ... now it's 3 clicks and the entire League is covered not just your team.

     And for a Kin/Sonic this means they don't have Empathy's problem of choosing between buffing or blasting.  A few clicks --> damage cap and now push their damage resistance in reverse to further up everyone's damage.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Afterthoughts

[shaggy]

On 9/10/2021 at 11:22 PM, Psylenz0511 said:

 

My question is: why would you not want to be a clicky kinetic seeing as you can debuff or blast secondary powers until the animations stack up and you literally can't fire off more options in even the highest recharge situations?

 

Maybe it's just cause I'm tired, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. All I know is, my kin/sonic puts his buffs up and fulcrum shifts every mob, and the rest of the time he's shredding enemies with -res. With how much he increases the team's damage output, enemies don't last more than a couple rotations of powers.

[Without_Pause]

I had a level 50 Kin/sonic on live. They are fantastic.

[Voltak]

On 9/9/2021 at 1:42 AM, Doomguide2005 said:

     Sonic is a very solid team-oriented defender.  It's -30% resistance vs -22.5% resistance on both Sonic Siphon and Disruption Field and +20% resistance vs +15% resistance for the Ally shields defender vs corruptor, controller.  A Sonic/Sonic defender can very rapidly turn a melee allies foe into something very squishy easily and rapidly hitting triple digit resistance debuffs (-100% after 3 attacks plus Field).  Late game where defense capped allies abound fewer are resistance capped making the shields valuable.  Early in i9 (the first issue with IOs) I was on a level 50 team doing a then brand new MoSTF.   Very few IOs on those characters and we utterly tore the final 4 AVs apart taking them on all together.  One of the 7 defenders was a Sonic/Sonic (and the 8th was a Fire/Kin controller).   

 

 

A picture is worth.... 

 

[Doomguide2005]

      Yeah that i9 MoSTF team was potent mix.  I doubt, in fact I know just don't have the screen shots, but that team capped pretty much everything you could buff (or pushed it so high who cares).  Defense triple digits (4 GM Empaths, 1 Cold). Resistance Sonic/Sonic, damage 8×Assault, 1 Kin, to hit, 8×Tactics, more endurance than usable, regen multiple RAs, 1 Kin ... and Fortitude, AB and Heat Loss on top ... then the debuffs.

      And the funniest thing is the STF was new enough that that mix of characters and powers actually discussed pulling the final 4 to separate them.  We didn't and I think I recall 1 character flashing red for an instant as we chewed them up.

 

[MoonSheep]

10 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

      Yeah that i9 MoSTF team was potent mix.  I doubt, in fact I know just don't have the screen shots, but that team capped pretty much everything you could buff (or pushed it so high who cares).  Defense triple digits (4 GM Empaths, 1 Cold). Resistance Sonic/Sonic, damage 8×Assault, 1 Kin, to hit, 8×Tactics, more endurance than usable, regen multiple RAs, 1 Kin ... and Fortitude, AB and Heat Loss on top ... then the debuffs.

      And the funniest thing is the STF was new enough that that mix of characters and powers actually discussed pulling the final 4 to separate them.  We didn't and I think I recall 1 character flashing red for an instant as we chewed them up.

 

 

i also remember when the STF was new, building a team you near enough had to get a cold and a sonic along with a few shivans or you weren’t going to pass 

 

shows how much more powerful characters are thesedays that you can jump into the 4 AVs without much of a thought

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i also remember when the STF was new, building a team you near enough had to get a cold and a sonic along with a few shivans or you weren’t going to pass 

 

shows how much more powerful characters are thesedays that you can jump into the 4 AVs without much of a thought

Indeed, knowledge, more IO's to choose from and Incarnates all contribute.  That team from i9 was mostly SO with a sprinkling of HOs thrown in.  I know mine had basically none at that time and fairly certain mine wasn't the only character built that way.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Indeed, knowledge, more IO's to choose from and Incarnates all contribute.  That team from i9 was mostly SO with a sprinkling of HOs thrown in.  I know mine had basically none at that time and fairly certain mine wasn't the only character built that way.

My defender in the Lvl 44 Team I posted the above (video) is a Sonic/Sonic

He is a tank with way less HPs than a tank but still a tank in that ITF. 

Helping to cap the resists of others is also making them tanks 

A sonic / sonic can bring enemies resists to the floor 


I don't think there is any AT as powerful as the Defender and Sonic/Sonic is a combo that is rare to see in the game. 
Yes, some people use it, but it is rare 

 

[Without_Pause]

I was one a PuG with a Sonic defender with a def armor. They kept running into battle before the tank got there. 

[Doomguide2005]

Mine was a Sonic/Dark, part of an all Dark SG my friends and ran around i13 or so.  4 Defenders --> my Sonic/Dark, a Cold/Dark, a Dark/Dark and a Dark/Archery and one scrapper a DM/WP.  So powerful we were our own worst enemy ... bored ourselves to death (we were crushing +4/×8 Arachnos in Faultline in our early 20's).  I eventually ran mine to 50 playing on teams outside of our group.

[Omega Force]

Sonic/ wasn't a great set solo, but so few builds hit their resistance cap that you make an amazing team.

 

Here is a Sonic/Beam Rifle version.  SLE hardcap, ranged softcap and automatic healing for better sustainment; and providing their team +30-50 resistance except psi, +16 to hit and +5 defense.  

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Sonic Resonance
Secondary Power Set: Beam Rifle
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Electricity Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Single Shot -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Sonic Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), ImpArm-ResPsi(11)
Level 4: Cutting Beam -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(19)
Level 6: Sonic Haven -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(23), ImpArm-ResPsi(23)
Level 8: Disruption Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Disintegrate -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(25), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 12: Sonic Dispersion -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(33)
Level 14: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(33)
Level 16: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx(34), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 20: Lancer Shot -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), Ksm-ToHit+(39)
Level 26: Clarity -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Penetrating Ray -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(39), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(42)
Level 35: Thunder Strike -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Overcharge -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(45)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(46), UnbGrd-Max HP%(48)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(50), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Power Sink -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(13), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 1: Disintegrating 
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Robotic Drones Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany 
Level 14: Double Jump 
------------

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[Without_Pause]

Defender ATOs and Sonic work really well together.