Considering a Kheldian.. whats the difference between them?

[Corbie]

Hey everyone.  I have never honestly considered playing a Kheldian before because I just didnt care for the shapechanging.  Ive decided to have a go at it though, since ive been playing COH since beta and it seems like I should at least try it out.

 

Thing is.. I am gonna try to do a human form build.  Yeah I know shapechanging is kinda the "thing" with these classes.. but I am just not into that aspect of it.

 

Anyway, I was wondering.. what are the main differences between the Warshade and Peacebringer?  Is it basically just power effects and damage type?  Or are there some notable unique traits that one or the other has?  Also, is one or the other a more viable choice for a human only build?

 

Thank you for any help you can give me 😄

[Omega Force]

Peacebringers are like scrappers, in that they're self-contained.  Their Build Up and tier 9 armor click always give the same bonus, you can walk way for real life aggro and come back and you're just as capable as ever.  Warshades click buffs are dependent on the number of living and/or dead enemies within PBAOE range.  WSs work better biform, because their dwarf has a second Build Up effect.  PB can be done human only.  Your ranged damage scale is terrible, so you'll want to focus on melee attacks.  You also have no mez protection until 38.

[Greycat]

Short form, humanform you'll *possibly* be happier with peacebringers. But try both and see. I used to have a guide somewhere from live...

 

Here. This is over a decade old, so there have been changes to the game, but I'd say there's a fair amount of still valid. (11/2010.)

 

Quoting a section of it...

 

Quote

The Peacebringer difference.

"What's the difference between 'shades and Peacebringers? Insult a Warshade in a bar, they'll go out, slash your tires and put sugar in your gas tank. The peacebringer will just break your face." -Me.

That simplifies things a bit. It's a good attitude comparison (though the 'shade goes from sneaky to demigod later.) But at the same time, it simplifies things a bit too much. So we're going to do some comparisons here.

1. Secondary effects. A Warshade slows their enemies with their attacks. Easier to keep together, a little safer with -recharge. A Peacebringer debuffs defense, making them easier to hit with followup shots (and thus easier to kill.)

2. Steady state versus rollercoaster. A Warshade has incredible highs - and low, low lows. Their self buffs, self heals and the like rely on enemies, alive or dead. (This is the balance which lets them get such nice buffs off of Mire, for instance.) A Peacebringer is entirely self contained. When Build Up or Restore Essence come up, they're going to do the same buff for the same amount at the same level with the same slotting. No worries that you're down to fighting one tough boss versus a crowd of minions. Your buffs are always there for you.

3. Fluffies of Doom vs Fluff. OK, this doesn't make the Peacebringer come out quite so well. The Warshade's extracted essences are reasonably long lasting, ranged attackers that add seriously to damage for a while. The Peacebringer's Photon Seekers are... um... well, a melee attack. Don't drag them behind you and expect them to explode. They had an AI upgrade a while back that upgraded them from "Dumb as dirt" to "Just somewhat dumber than an earthworm." I've had them float harmlessly right on an enemy's head through an entire fight, apparently deciding to make them die of embarassment ("Oh no, dandruff!") instead of explodiness.

4. MF for strength versus MF "because I want to." If you read Dechs' guide like I said, you'll see how the Warshade's dwarf mire, human mire, Eclipse and pets all work together to make a Warshade an engine of purple destruction. Bi and humanform are still viable - but you do lose out on some power, depending on combination. The Peacebringer? The idea of "Self contained" carries through here. If you go human form, you don't lose much by not having Dwarf - no mez protected form*, no second heal.

*Edit - Since this was written, Light Form has had some changes, and you can with some builds (go ask in the forum) perma it. Which will take care of the mez bit.

5. The Chosen One brings Balance. Similarly to the Warshade, your Inherent - Cosmic Balance - buffs your stats. Every Control (Controller/Dominator) character helps your protection from Control effects, and every other Epic AT (Hero or Villain) gives you Slow resistance. However, everything else is turned on its head. Are you protecting squishies? Every defensive AT (Tanker, Mastermind, Defender or Corruptor) helps your ability to protect them by giving you a damage boost. (OK, tanks and masterminds in bodyguard aren't generally squishy, but they are classed as defensive here.) Every offensive AT, such as sweaty Scrappers, BO Brutes... eh, wrong kind of offensive? Anyway, Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes and Blasters all help you stand on the front line with them by buffing your Damage Resistance. "A Peacebringer is what the team needs; a team is what the Warshade needs." -Dechs

 

(Again, remember... written in late 2010.)

 

So in short, I'd basically call a Peacebringer more steady and predictable than a Warshade.  You will have Build Up or your heal/HP boost *now,* it will recharge in *this* many seconds and then give you *that* much of a boost again, versus "I mired/eclipsed in a group, I am god! ... now I've been fighting this boss for a while, there are no minions and I'm barely getting anything from one target."

[Haijinx]

They both need buffed differently. 

[plainguy]

On 9/19/2021 at 2:51 AM, Greycat said:

So in short, I'd basically call a Peacebringer more steady and predictable than a Warshade.  You will have Build Up or your heal/HP boost *now,* it will recharge in *this* many seconds and then give you *that* much of a boost again, versus "I mired/eclipsed in a group, I am god! ... now I've been fighting this boss for a while, there are no minions and I'm barely getting anything from one target."

Like everything you said..

But I thought this was a very good explanation between the two.. Should be a sticky honestly
 

[plainguy]

To stick to this topic..

 

Will unique IOs placed in one form work in other forms ?
Examples 
White Dwarf Step - I/O Blessing of the Zephyr Knockback reduction 4 points work or take affect when in Human Form

White Dwarf Sublimation - I/O Preventive Medicine Chance for Absorb Proc

 

Will IO set bonuses also transfer over to other forms ?

Following the same example above 2  Blessing of the Zephyr slotted into White Dwarf Step will give defense bonuses to a player in Human Form

[Greycat]

Yes, bonuses stick regardless of form. (I remember that being asked back when IOs first came out. Don't forget, you're just getting a new form that gives (and disables) other powers, sort of like Invis used to do. It's like that, not like switching builds.)

[Gulbasaur]

On 9/19/2021 at 12:17 AM, Omega Force said:

You also have no mez protection until 38.

I mean, Dwarf Form is available at level 20 and gives you significant mez protection. 

[Omega Force]

White Dwarf is AMAZING if you aren't playing a gimped human-only build....

[chi1701]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:52 PM, Omega Force said:

White Dwarf is AMAZING if you aren't playing a gimped human-only build....

 

Like that having forms, both squid and dwarf gives you more attacks/powers at much lower levels which is very handy when doing low level teaming/task forces

[plainguy]

On 10/17/2021 at 5:52 PM, Omega Force said:

White Dwarf is AMAZING if you aren't playing a gimped human-only build....

I had a human only warshade and it was Painful that I scrapped the build.  EVERY MEZ was just connecting and getting me killed.

[archgemini24]

6 hours ago, plainguy said:

I had a human only warshade and it was Painful that I scrapped the build.  EVERY MEZ was just connecting and getting me killed.

 

I would argue both human-only Kheldians benefit from the Defensive Amplifier even if only for the extra mez protection, but the Warshade definitely benefits from the Amplifier since Eclipse does not provide any Mez protection, which is still kind of sad since it would have made perfect sense to give it 1 point per enemy hit.

[plainguy]

1 minute ago, archgemini24 said:

 

I would argue both human-only Kheldians benefit from the Defensive Amplifier even if only for the extra mez protection, but the Warshade definitely benefits from the Amplifier since Eclipse does not provide any Mez protection, which is still kind of sad since it would have made perfect sense to give it 1 point per enemy hit.

I went human only because I felt tri form was too involved for me, honestly.. 

Did that 1 billion coffin queen build listed somewhere on this page. 

My Litmus test is the Alpha Unlock for Incarnates. I start with 8/3 setting with fully IO build and then work my way down the settings..  

I was at 1/5 setting when I was like GTFO of here with this BS... 
Mind you I run PETLESS MASTERMINDS on this test all the time and I have about 10+ Petless and semi petless builds, they did better than the warshade.   

 

I wasn't aware of Defensive Amplifiers though either.