Concealment :: Infiltration

[UltraAlt]

I think that infiltration was made to be at travel power with stealth being the defense power (ie combat jumping, hover, ..)

 

I think that what Infiltration is missing is the ability to cling to all surfaces.

This would allow wall climbing and hanging from ceilings. 

 

I'm sure that this may be difficult to implement, but it would make infiltrate have its own niche as a travel power.

 

Honestly, clinging to surfaces is one of the obvious superpowers that City of Heroes is lacking.

[Glacier Peak]

I'm curious of how this could be done. I'm thinking it would require new stuff and not just a repackaging of current tech. 

[UltraAlt]

4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I'm curious of how this could be done. I'm thinking it would require new stuff and not just a repackaging of current tech. 

 

Unless there is some way to have the power see all surfaces as ground.

[DoctorDitko]

That's how phasing works in Star Trek and SG-1:

 

"Why aren't we left behind when the ship accelerates?"

"Why aren't we falling to the center of the earth?"

 

[SuggestorK]

7 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

That's how phasing works in Star Trek and SG-1:

 

"Why aren't we left behind when the ship accelerates?"

"Why aren't we falling to the center of the earth?"

 

 

 

Afaik they dont see acceleration cause of the inertial dampener and structural integrity field which shields against those effect , at least in Star Trek has nothing to do with Phasing. It also was explained that when the Crew was shaken by any outside effect it was just the dampener/field reacting milliseconds to slow. But it still missing a explanation why the damn hell didnt they have seatbelts :).

 

The plates on the bottom are fed with energy and thus generates Gravity, it was shown on some Episodes when they hadnt enough Energy left for it, but of cause not all story writers did cling to that tech background :).

Edited October 12, 2021 by SuggestorK

[arcane]

3 hours ago, SuggestorK said:

 

 

Afaik they dont see acceleration cause of the inertial dampener and structural integrity field which shields against those effect , at least in Star Trek has nothing to do with Phasing. It also was explained that when the Crew was shaken by any outside effect it was just the dampener/field reacting milliseconds to slow. But it still missing a explanation why the damn hell didnt they have seatbelts :).

 

The plates on the bottom are fed with energy and thus generates Gravity, it was shown on some Episodes when they hadnt enough Energy left for it, but of cause not all story writers did cling to that tech background :).

ok nerd

[SuggestorK]

39 minutes ago, arcane said:

ok nerd

my ears are pointy and my blood flows green 🙂

[ninja surprise]

Super cool idea, but not possible with how the maps were created.

[SuggestorK]

41 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

Super cool idea, but not possible with how the maps were created.

Yeah it was a discussion since the game existed cause superspeed, how the flash did it, was the prime example of running up a building.

 

Just wondering how they made that possible in DCOU, but of course that game was created later.

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, SuggestorK said:

not all story writers did cling to that tech background :).

😉

cling!

 

Not to be confused with Klingon technology.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

Super cool idea, but not possible with how the maps were created.

 

I don't know how the maps were created.

 

I know that base items can be set to cling to floors, walls, and ceilings in addition to their default placement mode.

Perhaps that system could somehow be utilized.

[UltraAlt]

14 hours ago, SuggestorK said:

Just wondering how they made that possible in DCOU, but of course that game was created later.

 

There are some big problems with the DCUO superspeed. 

Too easy to get stuck running loops on lamp posts and overhangs are an issue.

 

I could see it being utilized for superspeed as well, but I think if a super-speedster went below a certain directional progress that it would turn-off (and they would fall from the surface) versus infiltration which would retaining it's clinging until the character turned the power off or left the surface.

 

[Edit :: wording - "...versus infiltration which would retain the character's clinging to a wall or ceiling until the power is turned off or the character has left the surface (ie jumping off of the surface or moving to another surface type; floor, wall, or ceiling)."

Edited October 13, 2021 by UltraAlt

[SuggestorK]

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

[Edit :: wording - "...versus infiltration which would retaining the character's clinging to a wall or ceiling until the power is turned off or the character has left the surface (ie jumping off of the surface or moving to another surface type; floor, wall, or ceiling)."

In that case it would of course be rather more similar to Spiderman or Venom (without the web slinging part) then Flash 🙂 .

[UltraAlt]

24 minutes ago, SuggestorK said:

In that case it would of course be rather more similar to Spiderman or Venom (without the web slinging part) then Flash 🙂 .

 

Yes. Hence, trying to have clinging added to infiltration versus to superspeed.

 

Also like ninja climbing from walls or hiding in the rafters.

 

I had a Champions character that was encased in forcefield that surrounded their body like sheath. He didn't walk or climb. The force field clinged to any surface he was in contract with and the force field rotated around his body moving him forward. 

Incidentally, he had chance of going berserk whenever he saw bananas, because an alien race had invaded his planet that looked like bananas that would attach themselves to the back people's neck at the brainstem and take control of their bodies. Along with his other alien abilities - which were crafted to battle against the alien race that looked like earthly bananas -  came the ability to see through objects ... as long as they weren't made out of glass.

 

The Lizard of Five Deadly Venoms fame can climb walls.

 

The Creeper from DC can climb walls.

 

We have seen Batman and Robin climb walls even in the tv series.

 

Even Daredevil has to get up on top of those buildings somehow so he can brood in peace.

 

As  you can see, in these kind of situations, the wall climbing isn't some kind of super speed thing. They are working their way up a surface ... sometimes to hang out on it in order to look around to see what is going on in the streets below them or to look into windows. And, in pretty much all cases, waiting for a time when they can pounce on those below them.

 

My point being to add something to infiltration that other powers don't have that would make it stand out.

I think climbing up on walls is very much in line with sneaking around.

Edited October 13, 2021 by UltraAlt

[DoctorDitko]

I know I've seen folks swarm up the side of a skyscraper with nothing more than Combat Jumping. Done well, it's a sight to behold!

 

Could we arrange a mechanic to substitute for a fraction of their skill and call it Clinging? I wouldn't mind if it took learning a knack, much like TP does (or did, it's much improved!).

 

 

[UltraAlt]

6 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

I know I've seen folks swarm up the side of a skyscraper with nothing more than Combat Jumping. Done well, it's a sight to behold!

 

Could we arrange a mechanic to substitute for a fraction of their skill and call it Clinging? I wouldn't mind if it took learning a knack, much like TP does (or did, it's much improved!).

 

Not the same thing at all.

Combat jumping climbs skyscrapers by jumping from window sill to window sill. you can do that with Ninja Run. I have done it with Ninja Run.

I can climb to all the areas to get the badges for Atlas Tour Guide with Ninja run except the top of the Atlas Globe. yeah. I can get on top of City Hall with Ninja run; I've done that lots of times.

 

The point is to give infiltration something that the other powers don't have that make it worth taking because players have been indicating that it isn't worth taking as it is.

 

I took it on a character to check it out. It appears to have been put in as the travel power version of Stealth. You lose the defense as soon as you are hit when using infiltration; run stealth and you keep that defense. This shows that infiltration is the power meant to be used as a travel power. It doesn't have the height to jump over things. You don't move all that fast. There is nothing that makes it stand out to make it worth taking as a power.

 

Really, infiltration could have used the double jump mechanic more than leaping. Doesn't make sense to take that back from the leaping pool now.

 

Actual clinging meets what is missing out of a ninja/espionage travel power.

 

Doesn't make any difference if it is actual do-able in game or not. Clinging seems to be what is missing from Infiltration.

[biostem]

Champions Online couldn't pull off wall-clinging, and their swinging powers basically use "magic skyhooks".  DCUO has a clinging power of sorts, but it gets very quirky with how some surfaces have tons of minute details that make you rapidly change direction and angle.  I just don't see such a power coming to CoH.

 

That being said, I would love to see something like a permanent and enhanceable version of the jump pack or steam jump powers.  I'd also love to see some sort of double-jump power.  I also wonder if some of the tech wing options with jetpacks could be modified so we can only have the jetpack part of it, without said wings.  I also wonder if we could get something like the flying disc power as a flight variant - perhaps where it simply looks like we are running in the air on some sort of magical or technological sigil/element. 

[UltraAlt]

43 minutes ago, biostem said:

DCUO has a clinging power of sorts, but it gets very quirky with how some surfaces have tons of minute details that make you rapidly change direction and angle.  I just don't see such a power coming to CoH.

 

A majority of City of Heroes surfaces are flat and most buildings don't have the kind of overhangs that are see in DCUO building architecture. 

[A.I.D.A.]

What Infiltration really needs is to be given the 'doesn't turn off, but also doesn't stack with' treatment, regarding its stealth radius with the other powers in the pool. If I take Infiltration for travel, I don't want it to be mutually exclusive with Stealth which I might be using for part of my defense softcaps.

[biostem]

I wonder if Infiltration could be given the Mystic Flight or Experimentation SS treatment, and given a sub-power - maybe something like a very short-range teleport or a decoy power, where you deploy a duplicate or some other object/device, that distracts enemies, (make it unslottable and on a long cooldown)...

[UltraAlt]

16 hours ago, biostem said:

I wonder if Infiltration could be given the Mystic Flight or Experimentation SS treatment, and given a sub-power - maybe something like a very short-range teleport or a decoy power, where you deploy a duplicate or some other object/device, that distracts enemies, (make it unslottable and on a long cooldown)...

 

I'm still pro-clinging, but I like the decoy idea.

 

I do like the sub-power idea though.

 

Short range teleport seems over used.

How about superleap for 5-10 seconds?

 

Make it a pet that is invulnerable with taunt and no attacks that wanders away from it's spawn point in a direction directly away from you from that point. Give it like a 15-30 second duration. Throws down a smoke bomb at the end of its time and vanishes. Would be nice if could mirror like a phantom pet, but a generic mastermind Ninja would be fine with me.

 

superspeed and phasing for 5-10 seconds?

or is that just way to powerful?

 

[Riverdusk]

Infiltration still my new favorite travel power even as is (on anyone that doesn't already have stealth in their primary/secondary).  Can easily reach 80+mph, built in stealth, better maneuverability than SS, and the only travel power you can slot a LoTG in.

 

I'll take any more buffs you want to give it though. 😀

[biostem]

16 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

superspeed and phasing for 5-10 seconds?

or is that just way to powerful?

I'd say no more than a 3-5 second phase or capped defense for a very short duration.  Another idea would be the temporary pet that taunts enemies and you give off a weak placate as well...