[TV] Agents of Shield

[WanderingAries]

So because TV shows tend to get cancelled if I watch them in real time, I only just now got around to watching this series. I'd walked in on an episode occasionally when someone Else was watching it, but never really sat around until now. I'd already watched Agent Carter, but aside from that and the Films, that's all I have for exposure to the universe.

 

It started out pretty decent and I think I caught the handful of movie tie-ins, but after a while it very quickly felt isolated from the rest of the universe from my perspective. Not as bad as the latest itteration of Doctor Who (I swear to god they're throwing darts on a board for that one), but it started to feel rather "out there" and the last couple seasons started to feel forced. Especially the last season where they seemingly left episodes without real ending at times. IDK, TV always felt less focused than film to me for many shows, so I can't say any of it is completely unexpected.

 

The biggest take away I guess I have is that the series overall felt less cannon because I had a hard time seeing how what they had been doing wouldn't have been picked up on the radar in the films. Consequences that they created seemed to have little to no bearing on the expanded universe.

[biostem]

I felt much the same way.  I watched a few of the initial seasons, but once they started going into time travel and such, (trying to avoid too many spoilers), they lost me.  They also frequently fell into the "have all this awesome tech but fail to utilize it properly", category.  I would have rather, as you touched on, that they stuck to addressing lower level events that took place between the major theatrical releases...

[Heraclea]

I reckon any TV series has maybe three good seasons of self-contained episodes.  After that they start slipping on their own soap opera and become unintelligible if you haven't eatched the whole thing too far, too complicated to explain to a new viewer. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Heraclea

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Being a huge Coulson & Co fan, I watched the whole thing and it had some pretty great writing at times.

 

Good bits:

• Seeing what the Hydra infiltration reveal was like at "ground level" and how it affected everybody.
• The Matrix Framework season. Yes, some of it was a little derivative, but EVIL FITZ! EVIL FITZ!
• Mack lightly cracking the fourth wall to voice fan/writer concerns about killer robots, magic books, zombies, time travel...
• Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider. Yes.
• The Inhumans arc handled much better than the Inhumans series.
• Final series - much as I hate time travel (gives me IBS), they had an awful lot of fun with it: Simmons passing herself off as Peggy, picking up Daniel Sousa, Enoch getting stuck as a long-suffering barman... 
• Any time one of the Koenigs shows up.
• The Son Of Cool. It's one of those roles that you'd love to write for, and was clearly a joy to play.

Not so good:

• The Sarge arc with the killer space bats. Er... no.
• The Tower / aliens arc. 
• Deke. Generally. No.
• Lance Hunter. Really. No.

 

I think it did run its course, and was given a good ending. But also hope in the Multiverse era that Fitzsimmons, May, Mack and Daisy and an infinite number of Coulsons can make the odd comeback whenever they're needed.

Edited December 11, 2021 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

On 12/10/2021 at 12:31 AM, WanderingAries said:

The biggest take away I guess I have is that the series overall felt less cannon because I had a hard time seeing how what they had been doing wouldn't have been picked up on the radar in the films. Consequences that they created seemed to have little to no bearing on the expanded universe.

 

It might help to have some context that goes outside the storyline.  AoS was created with the understanding that they would be completely tied to the MCU movies, then that... changed.  Initially, the AoS writing team was kept in the loop which led to some great stuff like episode 17 of the first series tying into Captain America and the Winter Soldier which changed the whole course of the show.  But more and more, the leadership at MCU pulled away from all the TV shows, essentially leaving them high and dry. The only one they seemed to love was Agent Carter, which seemed true when Peggy cooperatively running S.H.I.E.L.D. appeared in middle age in Ant-Man, then confirmed when they brought Mr. Jarvis into Avengers: Endgame for a cameo. I've long held a belief, only speculative, that Joss Whedon's fall left a bad taste in the mouth of some high-ranked MCU powers, and despite the fact he was not really deeply involved in AoS, his brother was, and that may have poisoned opinion.  In the end, fans realized it had to be a parallel universe when the end of Avengers: Infinity War played out differently then the parallel story in AoS, and we eventually got confirmation that MCU wasn't even talking to the AoS writers anymore, leaving them to guess as to how to play things.  Throughout this, it was rumored that Kevin Feige had a beef with AoS somehow, and left them out to dry, though I've never seen proof in video or writing of this.

 

The good news for AoS fans is that with the opening of the multi-verse, there essentially is a tie to the AoS universe, and it just might allow for some sort of acknowledgement in the future.  After all, they're bringing Kingpin and Daredevil into the MCU proper, yes?

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

The tea I've heard is a little different to that. Joss's behaviour at Marvel and exit after Ultron left some with a bad taste, but the really bad stuff didn't surface publically until after Justice League. This is the tale I've heard - and it's more about intra-Mouse corporate warfare.

 

Agents Of SHIELD was an experiment in doing mass-market Marvel stories in a more episodic format, alongside the niche, PG/R-rated Netflix offerings. (Which annoyed ABC, as they didn't get a go with the properties first.)

 

It did well with the fans, and REALLY well for ABC's catch-up service, but didn't do epic numbers either in overall ratings or soap-powder sales. (So many great shows and projects have perished simply because admen didn't quite know what to do with them. Working in that industry, I can affirm they're not the most imaginative bunch. If you gotta explain it, it ain't working). Agent Carter similarly got pegged as "quirky and charming" but didn't do the numbers.

 

ABC's Ben Sherwood - and his ad execs - whined about wanting an actual superhero show. Like the CW did.

With, y'know, capes and stuff, whizzing, banging, big budget, big FX.

And big dramatic stories, like Thrones. Thrones is big. Must have big.

Big budget too. Money no object.

Bighugelaaarrrrge.

 

Big, like, say... Inhumans. 

 

Written and showrun by Iron Fist's Scott Buck. And stuffed with enough corporate partnerships (including IMAX above-the-line and a swathe of cinemas booked for previews) to fill an entire writer's room with angry yellow Post-Its about tone and referencing. But it had Hawaiian sets, a couple of big-name actors (Iwan Rheon on Alec Guinness gravitas duty), and a massive CGI dog.

 

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but it didn't go well.

 

The embarrassing and expensive disaster led Marvel Studios to cut diplomatic ties with ABC, and ABC put Agents through the wringer. Budget cuts (which you can see in Series 6), schedule changes, moving to the Friday Night Slot Of Death, but steady ratings and decent catch-up numbers kept it alive. 

 

Meanwhile over at Disney, people had been watching and learning. Agents' spectacular catch-up numbers proved there was clearly an audience for this stuff, but regular telly came with too many strictures. They'd also bought a skunkworks streaming project called BAMTech, which was originally meant for MLB and then ESPN: but sports rights are hideously expensive to start with, not to mention really fiddly with blackouts, international sub deals and team deals.

 

There'd been a lot of other market changes and failures over at ABC, but the Inhumans debacle was one of the things that led the Mouse to form Disney Direct To Consumer. All the money, all the library, all the creative control. They cut deals with FOX for launch content and went on a major hiring spree across bizdev, content production, marketing and tech (even I had a headhunter sniffing around, but my background's more in the ad-tech side of VoD, and I wasn't planning on moving Stateside with the beige ballache still in charge). 

 

Needless to say, the threat of an actual Disney TV service eating their viewers really p*ssed off ABC, but they didn't get much time to moan. Disney bought out all Fox's entertainment assets* and merged the corporate structures. Ben got the boot. And Agents got a farewell half-series order, some script support back from Marvel (the plot was changed halfway through to have Fitz in the Quantum Realm and running around branching timelines), and a home on D+.

 

As for Jed and Maurissa... their experience on Agents was rough, but not as bruising as you'd think. One of the odd things about working in telly is that if you're unsuccessful, nobody's interested and you get cut quickly. If you're too successful, a whole bunch of talentless execs you've never heard of will pop up and try and wheedle their way in, steal credit, send endless notes and force unwanted ideas and protégés in, or scream at you for being on their "turf" and shut you down.

 

The best place to be is average and a little weird - too successful to lose, not interesting enough to steal, and just unnerving enough for people not to want to mess with. That more than anything kept Agents relatively safe, happy and well-fed for five of its seven seasons.

 

...I digress. Jed and Maurissa are pursuing other projects away from TV and film for a while: but still part of the Marvel family.

 

As for Joss: well, this whole "cancellation" thing doesn't work nearly as hard as some loud and irritating TV pundits would have you believe. Even after the well-known problems on Ultron and Justice League, The Nevers went to a bidding war between Netflix, HBO and Amazon, and he was full-time showrunner for the first half of the season - although notably, HBO didn't promote it as a Joss joint. He quit in November 2020 (some would say he got pushed), but is still lurking around Whollyodd.

 

*other than Fox News, which calls itself an "entertainment service" in court filings and pleads that all its stories should be regarded as fictional. Seriously.

[Techwright]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:20 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Big, like, say... Inhumans. 

 

Ooooo boy.  Where to even begin with that one.  Maybe with the extremely fake red hair wig, then running the second half with a butch haircut on the character whose hair is her one notable power.  I did feel for the actors.  They must have been dying inside working with such flimsy material.  Inhumans deserves a complete reboot.  From what I remember of the comics, it can be an interesting group of characters, but that show handled it worse than that early '90's Captain America (which got a complete overhaul eventually).

 

If there's one good thing I can say about Inhumans, it was that the show made me aware of actor Anson Mount.  The man has serious talent.  Black Bolt can't be an easy character to portray.  You have to reach deep within any pantomime training you have, and possible have a love for old silent movie actors, to compensate for being as mute as that character is.  As trashy a show as that was, Anson still managed to show some skill.  I was very please to hear he'd been cast as Christopher Pike in Star Trek.  Pleased enough to watch the second season of a Trek show I'd considered probably as bad as Inhumans.

 

Also...that was an interesting read @ThaOGDreamWeaver.

[InvaderStych]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:56 PM, Techwright said:

If there's one good thing I can say about Inhumans, it was that the show made me aware of actor Anson Mount.  The man has serious talent.  Black Bolt can't be an easy character to portray.  You have to reach deep within any pantomime training you have, and possible have a love for old silent movie actors, to compensate for being as mute as that character is.  As trashy a show as that was, Anson still managed to show some skill.  I was very please to hear he'd been cast as Christopher Pike in Star Trek.  Pleased enough to watch the second season of a Trek show I'd considered probably as bad as Inhumans.

 

Anson Mount is fantastic.

 

First saw him in Hell On Wheels (AMC, I think?) from a while back. Really good show; bonus points for Colm Meany as a baddie.  It also turns out that Common can act, which was fun to watch develop in "real time" throughout the show.

 

[CienFuegos]

5 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Anson Mount is fantastic.

 

First saw him in Hell On Wheels (AMC, I think?) from a while back. Really good show; bonus points for Colm Meany as a baddie.  It also turns out that Common can act, which was fun to watch develop in "real time" throughout the show.

 

would you want him for Mr fantastic?  he looks like reed richards to me more than black bolt 

Edited December 27, 2021 by CienFuegos

[InvaderStych]

2 hours ago, CienFuegos said:

would you want him for Mr fantastic?  he looks like reed richards to me more than black bolt 

 

I mean, sure, why not? 🙂

 

That said, I'm not attached to Fan4 in any strong way, so as long as whoever was playing Richards convinced my brain to stop quoting Professor Impossible every time I see the character on screen, I would call it a win.

 

Also, I *did* watch the entirety of Inhumans just because he was in it despite the obvious travesty that unfolded upon my screen. So my assessment might be ... biased. 😄

 

-----

 

Since this is about AoS; Fitz gets my favorite set of arcs throughout the show. 

 

Watching him channel his very best impression of Walternate during the "Agents of Hydra" story line was refreshingly fantastic and he played against type flawlessly.

 

Everything else was hit/miss and pretty well summarized above.

Edited December 27, 2021 by InvaderStych

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On 12/22/2021 at 2:56 AM, Techwright said:

 

Also...that was an interesting read @ThaOGDreamWeaver.

 

Thanks. Recently caught up on the FT Magazine about the incoming new Mouse boss Bob Chapek, which adds another interesting little tweak to this story.

 

Disney have not only sidelined ABC - referring to them in public filings and briefings as "legacy distribution" (ouch!) - but have taken distro rights to all new content created by ABC, Disney and Fox Studios to an oversight distro committee, which decides where and when any content gets released. They literally can't put their own stuff on their own network if D+ wants it first.