Why is Infiltration The Stepchild?

[A Cat]

23 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Since this is totally academic and there's no way they'll revisit it, I'll just vote for Smoke Bomb being:

 

PBAoE -to-hit/-perception

Self-teleport (short range) (the PBAoE is at your initial position, not your final one) and +def

 

For your classic ninja vanish move.

Well then there should also be a combat teleport thing where you appear behind the enemy, say "heh, nothing personal kid" and unsheathe your katana. 

[SeraphimKensai]

11 hours ago, Krimson said:

My Street Justice/WP Scrapper uses Boxing all the time. And Cross Punch. Oh, and I have Brawl muled with FOUR Hecatomb, and every time I exemp below level 20 I use Brawl almost exclusively. 😄 Yes, I mule Infiltration. Not once have I removed it from the tray. Though, you might want to stop now. You're not going to win.

I have a couple Corruptors where I have boxing or kick 6 slotted with touch of death, and they are in the tray and get cycles especially when exemplared. Mind you I needed to 6 slot them for my builds as I was trying to softcap melee and ranged at the same time. That said I have a few toons like my warshade that use a proc'd out cross punch and it hits reliably hard.

 

All the powers I pick end up in a tray unless they are an auto power, but mind you I play with 6 trays as well.

[kiramon]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:59 PM, Aurora_Girl said:

 

Taking powers you don't intend to use is stupid. 

 

It's called economy and efficiency. Infiltration is both economical in terms of power choice, pool choice, and efficient in the same.

 

i.e., Flight is a wasted slot. 

 

And I always use infiltration

/bind t "powexec_name Infiltration$$powexec_name Stealth" 

 

 

[AgentForest]

I think one of the best and easiest solutions to Infiltration is:

1. Make Stealth go back to 35-foot stealth range instead of 55.
2. Make Infiltration 25 or so, but let it stack with ANY other stealth powers in the game.

This solves two problems.  For starters, it lets you activate both toggles, like with every other travel power set in the game, without forcing the other to shut off.  Secondly, Stealth is still the stronger stealth value, letting you grab it in builds where you'd like stealth but don't have access to it.  Infiltration is still weaker, so that the Stealth move itself isn't completely obsolete within its own power pool.  Thirdly, the effects of both moves at once stack to 60 stealth radius.  This is 5 better than existing Stealth, making getting both worthwhile, but not game-breaking.  Fourth, there is now build synergy for grabbing Infiltration on classes who already have a stealth power like Cloak of Shadows or Steamy Mist.  This makes the power far more desirable than Stealth + Ninja Run, which is currently the optimal choice.  Imagine if Combat Jumping + Ninja Run was just inherently better than Super Jump in every way.  That's just bad design.  Lastly, it maintains all the current uses existing builds have, such as using it as a LotG mule, while also making it worth turning on.  At worst, it leaves existing builds alone, and at best, makes them all better.

[KaizenSoze]

I have to thank this thread for reminding to try infiltration again.

 

It's great the way it is. I have respec'ed out of super speed and stealth into infiltration. Much happier now.

[Mezmera]

6 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I have to thank this thread for reminding to try infiltration again.

 

It's great the way it is. I have respec'ed out of super speed and stealth into infiltration. Much happier now.

 

If you're aiming for more invisibility I find Super Speed the better choice in place of Infiltration since you're likely already in the speed pool for Hasten and it's the same stealth with more movement horizontally opposed to vertical.  So you have a free pool to take something like Combat Jump instead which gives you the extra movement plus active defenses with minimal endurance cost.  

 

If your aim is for more defense to pair with more invisibility then Stealth I find to be very useful at the moment.  Mid-fight you're getting the same defense values that Combat Jumping would net you just at a quite higher endurance cost, its pretty manageable if you slot it decent.  

 

If I have an open power pick and a pool is open; between Super Speed, Infiltration, Stealth or Combat Jump, I'm taking Stealth pretty much always.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Mezmera

[KaizenSoze]

21 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

If you're aiming for more invisibility I find Super Speed the better choice in place of Infiltration since you're likely already in the speed pool for Hasten and it's the same stealth with more movement horizontally opposed to vertical.  So you have a free pool to take something like Combat Jump instead which gives you the extra movement plus active defenses with minimal endurance cost.  

 

If your aim is for more defense to pair with more invisibility then Stealth I find to be very useful at the moment.  Mid-fight you're getting the same defense values that Combat Jumping would net you just at a quite higher endurance cost, its pretty manageable if you slot it decent.  

 

If I have an open power pick and a pool is open; between Super Speed, Infiltration, Stealth or Combat Jump, I'm taking Stealth pretty much always.

So, I hate super speed. It's me, not you super speed. I have to take it some times because I have run out of other options.

 

I am just bad at running that fast. I seem to hit everything and the lack of airborne control drives me nuts.

 

Infiltration gives me enough speed, control, and stealth when paired with the celerity piece.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

So, I hate super speed. It's me, not you super speed. I have to take it some times because I have run out of other options.

 

I am just bad at running that fast. I seem to hit everything and the lack of airborne control drives me nuts.

 

Infiltration gives me enough speed, control, and stealth when paired with the celerity piece.

 

Yup I understand you there.  I only take Super Speed in the most rare instance.  

 

The extra invisibility in Stealth plus that you're getting defense values while fighting is the main draw.  I would really like to like Infiltration but losing all defense in a fight is far worse than losing a bit of extra movement which I can just choose Combat Jump instead.   

[A.I.D.A.]

What's even the point of having defense values out of combat? If you're not in combat, you're not receiving attacks. The moment you either make or receive the first attack, you're in combat. From stealth, you'll always be making the first attack, and never be receiving an initial attack since you're stealthed.

 

I would like to see the defense bonus in Infiltration either removed, or made active in combat, just like the defense bonus on Hover or Combat Jumping. Preferably the latter.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Aida LaCanthe

[aethereal]

5 hours ago, Aida LaCanthe said:

What's even the point of having defense values out of combat? If you're not in combat, you're not receiving attacks. The moment you either make or receive the first attack, you're in combat. From stealth, you'll always be making the first attack, and never be receiving an initial attack since you're stealthed.

 

The defense from infiltration suppresses when you attack or are hit by something (or if you click a glowie).  If you are attacked and they miss, the defense is not suppressed.  Since the stealth given by infiltration is not full invisibility, things can attack you, even if they aren't enemies who ignore stealth.

 

The defense bonus for infiltration is clearly a minor benefit, but it does serve a purpose.  Or also allows you to slot LotG global recharge, which certainly is why many people appreciate it.

[Aurora_Girl]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:24 PM, Krimson said:

My Street Justice/WP Scrapper uses Boxing all the time. And Cross Punch. Oh, and I have Brawl muled with FOUR Hecatomb, and every time I exemp below level 20 I use Brawl almost exclusively. 😄 Yes, I mule Infiltration. Not once have I removed it from the tray. Though, you might want to stop now. You're not going to win.

 

That is a dumb build, forced on you by bad power design. 

[KaizenSoze]

9 hours ago, Aida LaCanthe said:

What's even the point of having defense values out of combat? If you're not in combat, you're not receiving attacks. The moment you either make or receive the first attack, you're in combat. From stealth, you'll always be making the first attack, and never be receiving an initial attack since you're stealthed.

 

I would like to see the defense bonus in Infiltration either removed, or made active in combat, just like the defense bonus on Hover or Combat Jumping. Preferably the latter.

You are forgetting AOEs. Without out of combat defense your chances are getting by an AOE targeting one of your teammate goes up.

 

Example, if you are stealthing through a mission at the same time your tanker buddy is running through aggroing everything.

 

There is a reason stalker hide has high out of combat AOE defense.

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=stalker_defense.energy_aura.hide&at=stalker

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

That is a dumb build, forced on you by bad power design. 

I have a bunny AR/Martial Combat blaster that has a 6-slotted Kick. That is for theme though, to have more kick attacks on my bunny gunner. (Don't call her gunbunny. She doesn't like it. 😄)

 

(Edit: "Yes, I'm a lagomorph and I use a gun, but call me 'gunbunny' again and I'm liable to ventilate your empty head." 😆)

Edited March 1, 2022 by Rudra

[Luminara]

13 hours ago, Aida LaCanthe said:

What's even the point of having defense values out of combat?

 

To aid in the avoidance of being forcibly entered into a combat state by external actions.

 

13 hours ago, Aida LaCanthe said:

I would like to see the defense bonus in Infiltration either removed, or made active in combat, just like the defense bonus on Hover or Combat Jumping.

 

Combat Jumping and Hover are combat mobility powers.  Infiltration is not.