Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, Nerva said: Soloing ability is outside the consideration of this thread. An AT that can solo well but performs badly on teams is not well-balanced, since this game is generally team-based and advancement at the endgame is tied to team-oriented activities. Any AT that solos poorly and only performs well on teams is badly balanced, especially given that end-game advancement, the ride to being fully T4ed, can be done while 100% solo, even with ATs that perform poorly solo. 35 minutes ago, Nerva said: HEATS and VEATs are intensely difficult to compare to regular ATs. It'd be a good idea to avoid comparisons involving them when possible, They exist and must be part of the comparison. If for no other reason but that to show just how bad Khels actually are. 2 2
Nerva Posted December 27, 2021 Author Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Any AT that solos poorly and only performs well on teams is badly balanced, especially given that end-game advancement, the ride to being fully T4ed, can be done while 100% solo, even with ATs that perform poorly solo. They exist and must be part of the comparison. If for no other reason but that to show just how bad Khels actually are. I hate to say this, but you're kinda missing the point of the thread. What we're discussing is an AT that performs passably solo but suffers from a lack of real offerings to a team. This thread was made with the express goal of improving the AT's teaming experience and desirability on teams. As a result, its solo performance is beside the point, and the idea of Sentinel being poor at soloing is a nonissue because it isn't. Only a massive, from-the-ground-up overhaul and redesign of the AT might change that, and that's not been what's proposed in this thread so far. The closest we've come are the few people suggesting that the Blast set be swapped for Assault. HEATs and VEATs are hard to compare to any standard achetype, and pointing out how bad Kheldian archetypes might be is a subject for another thread. Changes made to Sentinels will not diminish or improve their experience in any noteworthy fashion. Comparing them simply because they exist is foolishness. May as well directly compare Sentinels to Controllers; you could do it, but you wouldn't get any worthwhile information out of it. Edited December 27, 2021 by Nerva Clarifications 2
Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Nerva said: I hate to say this, but you're kinda missing the point of the thread. I didn't. But if you base changes off of flawed assumptions, you won't end up in a very good place. I suspect that with other AT-wide changes so far, whatever is done to sentinels will end up leaving them overpowered.
Gobbledigook Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I didn't. But if you base changes off of flawed assumptions, you won't end up in a very good place. I suspect that with other AT-wide changes so far, whatever is done to sentinels will end up leaving them overpowered. That is why we have the test servers and feedback. It would not hurt to test a few the ideas out on them. A few small tweaks could really sell the class to more players. Opportunity really needs changing though. 1
UltraAlt Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 23 hours ago, Nerva said: False equivalency. You're equating 'vanilla' with 'plain' - it's not. It's is common parlance. I indicated. I'm done with discussing this with you. If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore. (It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications) Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case. But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable. Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.
UltraAlt Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 22 hours ago, A Cat said: slow AS is not worth it on teams it depends on the team that you are on. When I'm with a team that is steamrolling, it is worthless to try. When you are a team that is challenging themselves, you have plenty of time to use it multiple times per mob. 22 hours ago, A Cat said: a helpful factor on a team vs just doing more overall damage in the same time instead. Taking out Boss and LTs while on a team can be very helpful regardless of your AT. 22 hours ago, A Cat said: Not to mention slow AS is interruptible and fiddly to get to work in a chaotic battle. If you're not very skilled, yes - that can be true. And I'm not arguing that it takes a moment to move into position and set-up for an assassin strike out of hidden. sometimes it is a matter of setting up an position the enemy is running towards and assassin striking them as they pass by you. 22 hours ago, A Cat said: Even with placate I'd still crit with a non AS attack if I'm trying to maximize DPS. Fast AS + stacks of assassin's focus is just that good. I always go for an assassin strike after placate. If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore. (It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications) Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case. But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable. Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.
Sylapsis Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 15 hours ago, Lazarillo said: No changes needed to damage or defensive numbers. Target caps should probably be put in-line with other ranged ATs. Due to the fairly low damage, there's no reason to reduce these. Similarly, bring attack ranges in line with the other ranged ATs, too. It's not necessary but would help for cones, especially. Significantly buff the secondary effect numbers of the damaging attacks. I'm not sure exactly the most efficient way to go about this, but overall, debuffs from attacks should be better than Corruptors, maybe even on par with Defenders. This would allow some potent but not overwhelming Support from Sentinels (again, similar to VEATs...if kind of the opposite side of the coin...VEATs buff the team by activating their defenses...Sentinels support by attacking). Decouple target-marking form Opportunity. Give Sentinels' t1 and t2 powers an effect like Bruising was for Tankers. No stacking from the same user, but stacking from multiple Sentinels would be okay and mechanics-appropriate, IMO...if it could also be made that applying the debuff to one enemy removed it from others. Alternatively, replace Aim in the blast sets with a target-market toggle. This could prevent spread while still allowing stacking...however it breaks cottage rule and could cause trouble for sets like Dual Pistols where there's already a vital utility replacing Aim. Turn Offensive/Defensive Opportunity into their own click powers (just like Domination, which apparently inspired the mechanic, does). Extend the benefit to the entire team. This would give better control of the mechanic and making it a team buff balances its current lack of potency. These suggestions go along with what I've been wanting for sentinels, too. I especially like the idea of increasing the secondary debuff effects of attack powers to provide support to the team. Further back in the thread there was also discussion about being able to peel attackers off of more vulnerable team members (as well as the recurring request for higher damage numbers). How would it feel if a sentinel had, instead of Opportunity, a click-power (like Lazarillo suggested)? For this discussion, let's call it "Overwatch". Overwatch Click Duration: 30 seconds (or less?) Recharge: 2 minutes (or more?) Effect: +25% damage, +2 threat level You can use this while soling to get a damage boost, like a mini build-up, but more importantly you can use this in groups to rapidly out-threat a teammate who is getting in over their head. This would allow you to do a bit of ranged-tank alpha strike in teams without tankers or brutes? If we want to get really fancy with it, maybe it could also share the secondary effects of your primary power set with all nearby allies. Like, Dark Blast providing all allies with a to-hit debuff on their attacks? (Though, on consideration, sharing Energy Blast's secondary effect with the whole team would cause complete chaos. But, hey, that can be fun, too!) 1
Nerva Posted December 27, 2021 Author Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, UltraAlt said: I indicated. I'm done with discussing this with you. Y'know, it's funny. You come into a thread I made, you accuse me of making points I vehemently haven't and of holding positions I vehemently wouldn't, you've consistently been off-topic, you've been openly hostile to the topic, and yet here you are saying that you're done talking to me. And you're still posting here. How hilarious is that? I gave you a chance to participate on the topic and to actually explain your views and support them. I tried to engage you in some real conversation here. Did you forget this? On 12/25/2021 at 7:02 PM, Nerva said: Your anecdotes are no more or less valuable than anyone else's here. If you truly think other people are playing (Sentinels) wrong, give some examples of your playstyle, how you find a useful position in a party, and justify your criticism. Perhaps you have an insight that others could benefit from. Otherwise, I'm inclined to take your claims with a grain of salt, because you're basically saying "I don't have a problem, you all need to git gud" and then not elaborating on what "gitting gud" actually entails. Because you never bothered to respond to it. This isn't a situation where you can just go "I'm right because I say so." This is a forum, it's here for discussion, you support your points here. Give reasons to show why you think you're right, examples to help people understand your reasons, and let them be debated. Maybe see if you can convince me of your point; I'm not some fanatic that can't be swayed, but the only way someone sways me to a point is to have a damn good point in the first place and be willing to support it. Yes, I debate points ferociously, because it's fun and I'm invested in doing so. I want to see Sentinel become better as an AT because of it. If you want to make the point that Sentinel needs no changes as it stands, and it's player error holding them back, then fine, do it. I would welcome that. I will debate it, because I don't agree with it, but if you can actually make a salient point to the effect I welcome it's presence in this thread. So far, all you've done is post a bunch of images, make a poor point that got shot down, and got mad about it when you got called out on it. That's not discussion in good faith. Edited December 27, 2021 by Nerva Editing my quote in the interest of clarity 4 1
Gobbledigook Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 @Nerva and @UltraAlt please stop bickering about Stalkers it is going no where except to get the thread locked. enough has been said about the Stalkers here. This is about Sentinels after all. 1
Nerva Posted December 27, 2021 Author Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said: @Nerva and @UltraAlt please stop bickering about Stalkers it is going no where except to get the thread locked. enough has been said about the Stalkers here. This is about Sentinels after all. Don't look at me; I want the Stalker talk to stop too, hence why I invited @UltraAlt to get back on the subject of Sentinels and actually support their point. Twice. I'm not really trying to bicker here, but I do get very frustrated when someone puts forward a point and refuses to justify or support it, and then gets hostile with me when I call them on it. Edited December 27, 2021 by Nerva Small corrections 1 2 1
Aurora_Girl Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) Moar knockback. Kidding. Sort of. For Sents...you can't increase the secondary effects of the blasts without including Energy's KB, which of course would lead to apoplexy. What about adding an inherent taunt to each blast power instead? Higher than other ranged DPS, Lower than any melee. That actually could establish this so-called "mid line" in a fight that I'd argue doesn't actually exist in any way right now. Obviously, taunt is dumb and complicated and that probably can't be done at the moment but it might prove spicy enough to work and fix the "my armors are useless on teams because literally nothing tries to hurt me" problem. Edited December 27, 2021 by Aurora_Girl Verb tense. @Aurora Girl - Excelsior - BSOD Aurora Girl (Blaster)- Energy/Atomic, Queen of Faceplants and former Mayor of Pinnacle Server Straye (Brute)- Savage/SR, Survivor of +4 ITF Nictus Crystals and Bobcat's Bane Aurora Snow (Corruptor) - Ice/Cold, AV Humiliator Terraflux (Controller) - Earth/Rad, Bass Exploder Spynerette (Arachnos Soldier) - Night Widow, Super Spy of Sneakiness and Stabbing Snowberrie (Tank) - Ice/Spines, Disco Ball and Lady of Winter
Hardboiled Hero Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) On 12/14/2021 at 10:21 AM, TheZag said: I posted this in another thread recently but it makes sense here too so i'll throw my idea out. First is to give sentinels access to assault (dominator secondary) for its mix of melee and ranged attacks. They already have blast so its too late to take that away. Sentinels could choose either blast or assault for their primary. Second is to add to their inherent that you do additional damage to enemies that are closer then 20 feet away. This would give the armor secondary more purpose while rewarding the extra risk of going into melee range. This bonus damage might need to be low at all times and boosted during opportunity or only during opportunity with a larger buff or longer duration. I've thought of these things (briefly) too. On the first one, I think it would be cool if there was an AT that uses assault primary. Too many AT's are competing for blasting powers. Still, I feel like that should be a separate AT. Also, we need more assault powers before I think that could really take off. As for the second point, I feel like that would have been a way to go, instead of forcing sentinels to move closer, incentivize them to move closer. While that idea seems sentinel appropriate though, I don't really see it as helping sents have a role in a party. edit: and now to continue reading the rest of the thread.. just wanted to comment on those things since they had sprung to my mind recently as well. Edited December 27, 2021 by Hardboiled Hero
RCU7115 Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 7:41 PM, Ignatz the Insane said: Agreed. I also agree that a straight damage buff probably isn't the right way to go. I see them as a more hybrid AT. How about giving them a kindof reverse Cosmic Balance to aid teammates? Every Blaster in the team gives a bit of Mez Resistance (protection? I dunno), Tanks give damage, Defenders give Defense, and so on. Obviously these values would be small, but it would give Sentinels value in teams. I was thinking something similar with the cosmic balance idea. Maybe give the sentinel a -resistance bonus to all their attacks for every (insert AT), and for every (insert AT) gives all team members a +recharge. I think they need their damage upped to 1.0 and increase the target cap. Their range is fine for me. I usually take the aoe immobilize power from the ancillary powers so maybe increase the target cap there as well.
Hardboiled Hero Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 Okay.. so.. Much has been said, but I think there's also much that hasn't been said, or even ignored. For 1: Playing a sentinel in 50- content isn't the same experience as playing a sentinel in 50+ content. In my experience, sentinels are fine and fun while leveling, but at 50+ sentinels don't really seem to get much. Like-wise, optimized enhancements on sentinels don't seem to do as much for them as for other AT's. All in all, I would argue that sentinels have a high floor and low ceiling. I feel like at 50+, everyone else gets candy and I don't.. well.. maybe not EVERYONE else... 2: The Roles are kinda messed up right now anyway. Playing a Force Field defender or corruptor can be fun, but the team rarely needs you. In order to be useful on a team at 50+, you would basically need to design the team around the Bubbler. I complain about that with FF rather often, but the truth is it's a problem for all support powersets. An empathy defender isn't needed much more than a Bubbler. It's even worse with control powersets, wherein people actually get upset when you control mobs! I don't feel it really does much good to define the sentinel's role until we make it so that rules are useful again. 3: Opportunity.. *sigh* oh opportunity.. I mean there's enough with opportunity to spawn multiple threads by itself. Limiting offensive opportunity and defensive opportunity to a single "bad" attack each DOES actually force some decision making, but it also feels like bad design. More to the point though.. how many people actually use defensive opportunity? I think defensive opportunity was meant to be used far more often than it is. I think sentinels weren't meant to have multiple toggles running, even while they're spamming their attacks, and so the devs thought they were gonna need powers and abilities that would help recover endurance. In practice though, I rarely use defensive opportunity. Personally, I feel like defensive opportunity could be the mechanism for giving sentinels taunts and/or controls. I could write a whole thread, by myself, on possible ways to change opportunity. 4: I can testify to the fact that sentinels take damage. often this is AoE damage, or damage from the one mob i'm trying to focus down. I really don't know where these stories of immortal sentinels come from. The reality is that sentinels will have a harder time pulling single mobs than other ranged AT's do. Maybe people just forgot how to play the other ranged AT's carefully? I mean you could argue that this means that sentinels don't need to play careful, but the counter is that sentinels don't have the tools to play careful.. well.. whatever.. what I know is that in solo play my sents die as much as my doms (the two AT's I play most). In group play my doms die more, but this is largely because I play much more wrecklessly with my dom in groups. 5: I generally feel like sentinels are better at carrying pool powers than most other AT's. One advantage to sitting at mid-range and being among the last on a team to drop is that your leadership powers can effect more people longer. Another advantage is that you're better able to escape from a fight to rez someone (especially if you have Ninjitsu!) Sentinels also seem to be able to skip more main powerset powers than other AT's, which I think means they tend to get more pool powers anyway.. or is that just me? 6: Okay.. as you may have been able to tell from the last point, I kinda lost my train of thought while writing this, but hopefully I've given everyone enough to think about while I try to remember what else I was going to say.
Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 38 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said: I really don't know where these stories of immortal sentinels come from. I would guess from those that hover-blast. If you sit in melee all the time, you're going to take vastly more damage.
Hardboiled Hero Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 44 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I would guess from those that hover-blast. If you sit in melee all the time, you're going to take vastly more damage. Nope. a sentinel Hover-blasting is less effective than any other ranged AT hover-blasting. The sentinel has to stay closer to the fight anyway (I've noticed mobs jumping up to me on a regular basis) and the defense bonus isn't as helpful for the sentinel at later levels.
Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said: Nope. a sentinel Hover-blasting is less effective than any other ranged AT hover-blasting. The sentinel has to stay closer to the fight anyway (I've noticed mobs jumping up to me on a regular basis) and the defense bonus isn't as helpful for the sentinel at later levels. Nope. The amount of incoming damage at range from critters is ridiculously lower than what comes in from melee. Sentinels have zero reason to be in melee as they have no damage auras and precisely zero melee attacks until anc/epic pools. Even T9s can be set off while hovering above a spawn and reach them all. Inferno radius 20', melee range 7'. You can absolutely choose to go melee-centric early on with pool powers and stalker level HP and mitigation but why bother? You stated you didn't know where these stories of immortal sentinels are coming from, so I told you. It ain't rocket surgery. I hover above the masses and blast them into dust with complete impunity. It's the very definition of tankmage.
UltraAlt Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Gobbledegook said: @Nerva and @UltraAlt please stop bickering about Stalkers it is going no where except to get the thread locked. enough has been said about the Stalkers here. This is about Sentinels after all. It's not your place to be the forum police. 7 If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore. (It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications) Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case. But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable. Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.
Wavicle Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 Sentinels were pretty clearly designed to be solo toons for people who couldn't hack it as Blasters, and that right there is the source of the problem. 2 1 Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
UltraAlt Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Nerva said: Don't look at me; I want the Stalker talk to stop too, hence why I invited @UltraAlt to get back on the subject of Sentinels and actually support their point. Twice. I'm not really trying to bicker here, but I do get very frustrated when someone puts forward a point and refuses to justify or support it, and then gets hostile with me when I call them on it. I have defended my points. I'm not going to go grind some statistics. I play the way that I play. Other people play differently. I'm putting up information from my experience. I apparently play City of Heroes differently than other people. The OP say that Sentinels have no role on a team, aren't different enough from the other archetypes, and is useless on a team. I disagree with that and I stated why. My counter as well was that Stalkers are less useful on a team than Sentinels. I stated why. I was countered by the argument that the main "specialty" of a stalker - the assassin strike - was useless on a team because it took too long to execute. I'm wondering if some say the same thing about Blasters using a nuke! Some people only have an eye for mini-maxing and don't play for the flavor of the game. That is if it isn't some planned out build with all the proper power picks and enhancement slotting then the character is useless ... and you better forget about even playing a character if they aren't level 50! And I'm going to go ahead and go there, some people play on a team like they are the only one there and all the other player characters are NPCs. It's just run around and do what you want to do because you KNOW it's the right thing to do and everyone else better do what you expect them to do or they are playing wrong. This kind of player isn't playing like they are on a team. They are playing with themselves. I'm a character conception player and I try to milk as much as I can out of the character conception. The builds are nice and neat. They aren't what people would consider the way to play any of the archetypes correctly. When a team starts, it can often flounder around until the team finds there footing. This happens when at least one of the players starts playing with the team to make things work better. That is to say, if your teammates won't team with you, then team up with them, and then at least someone will be teaming up. I'm not looking to be the "big man" on the team. I'm looking for the way for my team to succeed. I can do that with pretty much any kind of character in most situations. Where it comes to fail is when I'm playing sub level 50's with a level 50 team .... especially when I'm playing a stalker. I clearly stated why. Teams can steamroll so fast that I can't get in position and set of an assassin strike on what I would consider to be the most important target I can go after - LTs or the Boss. The counter is "don't use your main attack power the way it was originally intended to be used" and just fight like a scrapper. I don't get into the kind of situation where I feel that I'm being totally useless on a team very often. Even if the other players don't know what I'm doing, I know that I'm doing something to make the mobs fall faster. The time it most stood out to me that this was not the case was when I was playing a mid level stalker on a level 50 team that was running like +4s and steamrolling mobs. regardless of what target I picked, I would run in, plant, and go for the assassin strike and before it could execute the target was down. My character conception is to play the character so that it performs assassin strikes form hidden. I couldn't do it, so I switched character to one that more fit with the team. Problem solved. It wasn't that I was lacking the ability to use the assassin strike, it was that the team was simply didn't need the ability of a character to do spike damage on targets because the rest of the team could quickly destroy (what was to them) defenseless mobs. So my evaluation is that stalkers seem to lose their main speciality and therefore lose their "role" on a team. The rebuttal being to play like a scrapper. Seems like the role of the AT is lost to me in that situation. How does this fit with the topic? The OP was saying that Sentinels didn't have their own "role" on a team. Of course, Sentinels aren't one of the holy-MMORPG-triad. Most of the other AT's aren't either. Call a Sentinel a jack-of-all-trades and useless because of it if you want. I don't find either to be the case. I think they are fine to play if you work with what you have. But I'm a character conception player that tries to find ways to use that character conception to work with my teammates, even if that means alt jumping or just looking for another group if I'm not enjoying playing the game for whatever reason. I'm not posting on this thread any more because there is too much hostility toward me for expressing my views. I firmly believe that if you think that Sentinels are useless that you haven't taken time to learn to play the Archetype the way that makes it work best when on a team. I pointed out where I fell that have been able to use one effectively when on a team. Other people dismiss it. That's fine. That's their opinion. It works for me, if they want to disregard it, I don't care. I'm done with this thread. Any replies to my post on the thread at this point are are free snipes at me. Feel free to get your shots in if that is what it takes for you to have a good day. 5 If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore. (It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications) Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case. But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable. Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.
Troo Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) no offense to anyone. just this thread has shown some impressive staying power. Edited December 27, 2021 by Troo 1 "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum
Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 47 minutes ago, Wavicle said: Sentinels were pretty clearly designed to be solo toons for people who couldn't hack it as Blasters, and that right there is the source of the problem. Where "hack it" is defined as being the butt of every faceplant king joke on the forums. Can they be built and played not to die? Sure. But I've rarely actually watched one in action but for very rare players with very specific builds. And they sure as hell aren't going to get there until after 50.
Hardboiled Hero Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Nope. The amount of incoming damage at range from critters is ridiculously lower than what comes in from melee. Sentinels have zero reason to be in melee as they have no damage auras and precisely zero melee attacks until anc/epic pools. Even T9s can be set off while hovering above a spawn and reach them all. Inferno radius 20', melee range 7'. You can absolutely choose to go melee-centric early on with pool powers and stalker level HP and mitigation but why bother? You stated you didn't know where these stories of immortal sentinels are coming from, so I told you. It ain't rocket surgery. I hover above the masses and blast them into dust with complete impunity. It's the very definition of tankmage. I agree with most of what you've said, but you seem to be under the impression that I've never played a sentinel and used hover-blasting. I've literally made and leveled dozens of sentinels and most of them have Hover. My experience is not that I can "hover above the masses and blast them into dust with complete impunity". My experience is that hover makes things generally easier while I'm leveling, but most of the time there are ceilings and whatnot keeping me from rising too far above the fray. even without ceilings, I've still had enemies jump at me. That's my experience and there's really nothing you can say that will change it. Sentinels may not die much when on teams, but I'm willing to bet we've all seen them die once or twice. If they could really be immortal when solo, they should be unstoppable on a team, right? But that's just not the truth. For the sake of continuing the over-all discussion: One thing I remembered I wanted to mention is that it seems like some characters are more designed for breadth of content (In my experience, people who want teams often want the teams to be able to do any content), while other people are more concerned about depth of content (from what I've seen, people who like to solo often build their characters to fight certain AV's or enemy groups). When discussing what sentinels can do or how easily they can do it, I think it's also important to think about those things in terms of both the variety of things they can do, and also the depth of things they can do.
Bill Z Bubba Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Hardboiled Hero said: Sentinels may not die much when on teams, but I'm willing to bet we've all seen them die once or twice. If they could really be immortal when solo, they should be unstoppable on a team, right? But that's just not the truth. As I've stated many times around here, my fire/bio sent dies when I completely stop paying attention or I'm excessively drunk. This means it has happened more than once or twice. And that's running /bio in offensive mode for an even larger hit to damage mitigation. With an Inv or SR sent hovering? I chose to be a ground-ponder on those because I knew how ridiculously easy it would be to never die. Even my rad/regen fights in melee just so that there will be some level of challenge. But I can easily respec them into hover mode and be stupidly unkillable. But you seeing as much dirt eating as it seems... that's really your problem, and in no way a universal truth. 4 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said: One thing I remembered I wanted to mention is that it seems like some characters are more designed for breadth of content (In my experience, people who want teams often want the teams to be able to do any content), while other people are more concerned about depth of content (from what I've seen, people who like to solo often build their characters to fight certain AV's or enemy groups). When discussing what sentinels can do or how easily they can do it, I think it's also important to think about those things in terms of both the variety of things they can do, and also the depth of things they can do. I don't disagree with this other than that some people build for both. Yes, please, fix Opportunity. It's crap. But let's not make an already stupid, power-creeped to hell and back situation even worse. Please?
InvaderStych Posted December 27, 2021 Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sylapsis said: Overwatch Well.. now, wait a moment. You might be on to something, but not from the Primary, from the Secondary. <New Name For Additional Inherent that isn't Trademarked by another Game Company> The Sentinel is constantly vigilant to the state of the battlefield; their superior situational awareness allows them to provide cover and assistance their team-mates .... <a superior wordsmith should take over here> ... A small portion of the defense or resistance value from select powers in your Secondary is extended to your team-mates with 12' Easier with toggles, but if we're looking to give them a place on a team and do something in line with the definition of the word 'sentinel' ... maybe something along those lines? Giving it +dmg for soloing makes a bit of hand-wavey sense in that without team-mates to monitor, the Sentinel can go ham on their opponents. Does not necessarily have to be shared-benefit from toggle shields - giving the two clicks in /EA a pbAoE component would be an interesting alternative. Each secondary could basically do 2-3 in this fashion. Some could be shields, others not. Edited December 27, 2021 by InvaderStych 1 You see a mousetrap? I see free cheese and a f$%^ing challenge.
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