Expand Powersets.

[rolandgrey]

Sometimes I see a power in one archetype that isn't in another.  Sometimes, I see a power that should fit in another set, but for whatever reason isn't there.

 

The main culprit off the top of my head is Assault Rifle.  Enemies get all sorts of rifle rounds and rifle attacks, but players have to rely on the attacks of the initial Frankengun, that weird cobbled-together with duct-tape and bolts that no sane marksman would wield.  So, to make a weapon that can accomodate everything and function as the "Mad Scientist's Weapon," the initial developers made the AR powerset just...  Bizarre.  Who the Hell mounts a flamethrower on their machinegun!?

 

I'm not saying you should take away flamethrower, though.  I think it should stay.  For a superhero game, it fits the niche nicely.

 

No, what I'm saying is that we should have MORE options.

 

I think powersets could stand to be expanded.  To use my assault rifle example, we can have more powers added to match a certain flair.  Currently, if you want to play a sniper, you have to sorely limit your power choices.  Burst, Slug, Bean Bag, Sniper Rifle, then you cram your build with everything else you can think of (though I also tend to take on Full Auto because I'm not completely insane; I just figure the weapon is like the Bozar from Fallout 2 or New Vegas).  But imagine how much better it would be if we could get some of those cryo or pyro rounds the Marksmen enemies use.  These options wouldn't be without drawbacks, however.  In this instance, we wind up using the Arachnos Soldier rules, where a Crab Spider can't take Venom Grenade twice.  Heavy Burst or Pyro Rounds would prevent a player from getting Buckshot, Flashbang or Rocket would prevent M30 Grenade, Cryo Rounds or Glue Grenade would prevent Beanbag, Flechettes (mechanically, an up-powered Buckshot), Suppressed Assault (the SCAR Heavy Burst used by Spec Ops Mercenaries) or Suppressed Snipe (again, the SCAR Snipe used by Spec Ops Mercenaries) would prevent Flamethrower.

 

Essentially, you add power options to a tier, but they would lock out the other options within the same tier when selected.  As a result, you can build toward a specific theme.  For instance, if you're using a Shotgun character, then you would take powers like Slug, Buckshot, Beanbag, Flechette, Dragon's Breath and, to replace Full Auto, Auto Assault (a riff on the AA-12, though maybe I would make a better mental image by calling it "Hail Caesar").

[Wavicle]

There is one set that already has this in one spot: Sentinels Super Reflexes. You have two options at one tier, and you can choose one or the other.

My understanding, although I have no source to point you toward, is that the devs don't want to do this again as it apparently causes some kind of problems. Not knowing anything about the code I can't be more specific.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

My understanding, although I have no source to point you toward, is that the devs don't want to do this again as it apparently causes some kind of problems. Not knowing anything about the code I can't be more specific.

 

Yeah. This, as I recall, inspired a "Nope, not doing that again" on the part of the devs.

[Aurora_Girl]

Why is it so many people forgot how power sets work? You want a specific secondary effect, pick that powerset!

[rolandgrey]

6 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Why is it so many people forgot how power sets work? You want a specific secondary effect, pick that powerset!

 

With over 100 characters, I'm fairly familiar with how powersets work.

 

Why don't I just pick "that powerset?"  Because there is no "Shotgun" powerset.  There's no "Sniper" powerset.  There's no "Bullets Only" AR powerset.  What we have is the Frankengun, the "try to please everybody" set, and if you ignore the powers that don't fit your "theme" you're selecting powers that are just taking up space like some kind of feat tax and you're unable to meet the action economy needs of the higher levels.  Also, there's no powerset that has the cryo bullets of the Marksmen of the Council or Sky Raiders.

Besides, this isn't about the "secondary" effects.  This is about having a power selection to match your theme.  Imagine having an alternative to Fire Blast's Flares that isn't burst fire pyrotechnics.  Or go the opposite route, and have Fire Blast powers that are ALL burst fire pyrotechnics.  Or go even further and have Fire Blast powers that are fireworks displays.

Can we have Ice powers that aren't just throwing chunks of ice at the enemy?

 

Can we have Broadsword attacks that aren't just wild swinging?

 

Can we do all of this without forcing people to remake characters for new powersets?

 

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

There is one set that already has this in one spot: Sentinels Super Reflexes. You have two options at one tier, and you can choose one or the other.

My understanding, although I have no source to point you toward, is that the devs don't want to do this again as it apparently causes some kind of problems. Not knowing anything about the code I can't be more specific.

 

27 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Yeah. This, as I recall, inspired a "Nope, not doing that again" on the part of the devs.

 

Well, that's a bit less than heartening.  I'm not too happy to not know the "why," but knowing it's been attempted and caused issues that left the Homecoming Devs unnerved does dampen my passion for this idea.

[Aurora_Girl]

How would one make, say, a "using a broadsword" attack set look different than...using a broadsword, exactly?

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

How would one make, say, a "using a broadsword" attack set look different than...using a broadsword, exactly?

Well, there could be alternate animations, just like there are for other sets, but that’s all it has to be. Not separate powers.

[A Cat]

8 minutes ago, rolandgrey said:

 

Why don't I just pick "that powerset?"  Because there is no "Shotgun" powerset.  There's no "Sniper" powerset.  There's no "Bullets Only" AR powerset.  What we have is the Frankengun, the "try to please everybody" set, and if you ignore the powers that don't fit your "theme" you're selecting powers that are just taking up space like some kind of feat tax and you're unable to meet the action economy needs of the higher levels.  Also, there's no powerset that has the cryo bullets of the Marksmen of the Council or Sky Raiders.

I agree. Melee has katana, broadsword, mace, axe, staff, and TW all as separate weapon powersets. Sure, some of them are kinda copy/pasty (the early ones). Guns has AR and DP. AR is everything glued together horribly and DP is for one, a pistol, and also dual pistols at that, with heavy Equilibrium flavor. Not going to lie, it is awesome looking, but it certainly is pretty specific to a certain theme. 

[rolandgrey]

23 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

How would one make, say, a "using a broadsword" attack set look different than...using a broadsword, exactly?

 

Are you under the impression that wielding a broadsword is little more than picking up a sharp metal stick and swinging wildly?  I'm having trouble taking your "constructive criticism" as such.

 

28 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Well, there could be alternate animations, just like there are for other sets, but that’s all it has to be. Not separate powers.

 

True, though it would be a tad difficult to explain a power called "Hack" using a stabbing motion.  Head Splitter, maybe.

[Greycat]

20 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

How would one make, say, a "using a broadsword" attack set look different than...using a broadsword, exactly?

 

Brain started going down a little rabbit hole on this and just how much of a mess this *could* be.

 

I mean, start with what you consider a "broadsword." For one, the stuff we have as options aren't all.. broadsword-y. A pirate cutlass is going to be used differently than a double edged straight sword, probably used differently than a khopesh was, etc. And right now they're all single-handed - there aren't any two handers (or hand and a half) that are used in two hands. No alternate animations for them, either. Even if we could get *those,* we have to consider that Shield exists... which ties up one hand (and already, as I recall, greys out some powersets.) And kind of cuts out just "alternate animations," because you can alternate (say) SJ or SS animations just fine... but if you wanted to do two handed on some costumes, it would have to realize you had shield (for instance,) so... more spaghetti for the code...

 

Right now, though, it's just "I swing something sword shaped this way."

[plainguy]

Can they Implement the VEAT type system ?

Personally I suggested something similar long ago on the forums. 
EG on the EPIC and Ancillary pools it should just be Resistance or Defense Shield.. Let the player pick if they want it to be fire or dark or whatever. 
Full Auto out of a shoulder mounted gun.. EG Predator style.  Energy Blast from chest or shoulder mounted gun. 

Have the Devs find a cost for this ? 
EG it cost 5k to run the servers for a month.. 

Get quotes for someone who can do the animation for 10 powers. For example if they want 3k to do the work, They do the same thing they do for donations for Monthly maintenance, you create donations for Power animations.  This way people who want to pay for that will. You don't do anything until you get the 3k.. If it takes 10 months to get the donations, well then that is how long it takes. 

 

Basically the VEAT branch out is for those not wishing the cottage rule sets. But they are still there if someone wants them. 

[arcane]

22 hours ago, rolandgrey said:

This is about having a power selection to match your theme. 

That would be an infinite amount of work tho

[Aurora_Girl]

Y'all LARPers are hysterical. (Joking, chill.)

 

Let's just make a single powerset for "Weapon Handy" and one for "Weapon Shooty" (because a blunderbuss fires differently than a heavy Mongolian mounted compound bow OBVIOUSLY) that you pick your weapon, then that weapon has its own secondary effect and set of animations... somebody do the math on that and let me know where it falls between "absurd" and "wildly astronomical". 

 

😛

Edited January 3, 2022 by Aurora_Girl