Archery - Secondary Effect?

[Ston]

What would you think of Archery having a slow secondary effect added to Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, Fistful of Arrows, and Ranged Shot? I think this would allow the set to be much more competitive in single target damage and utility with the addition of slow procs. I also think the change would fit thematically, as you normally see victims of arrows slowed down in movies & tv. Even if the DPS is comparatively high on Archery, it only does 1 tick of lethal damage and is outclassed by sets that have better damage types or proc opportunities in most situations. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Cirque

[Six-Six]

18 minutes ago, Cirque said:

...outclassed by sets that have better damage types...

This is your fault for picking an antiquated weapon in the age of laser guns and atomic hands.

...just kidding. I like Bows and Arrows to the point that I play them realistically (only ST attacks and Fire Arrow at the most -- only the Green Arrow can do justice to the boxer glove arrowhead). So I say AYE to your suggestion to put a slow in ALL attacks.

[Akisan]

Archery does already have a secondary effect - it's more accurate than other powers.  Archery powers have a base 1.15x accuracy modifier, compared to most weapon's 1.05x acc (to compensate for redraw), or a most non-weapon attack's 1.00x.  This isn't very applicable endgame (when your accuracy should be capped anyways), but it's very noticable while levelling (base chance to hit being 86% w/ no enhancements; 1 SO's usually enough to take on +1s)

 

That said, I wouldn't mind archery getting a touch-up to stay competitive end-game (or even a rebalancing of end-game resists, feels like everything but carnies resist lethal damage).  A minor slow component's a fun idea for this, but -def could work too (both representing arrows limiting a foe's range of motion).

[Psyonico]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:51 AM, Cirque said:

What would you think of Archery having a slow secondary effect added to Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, Fistful of Arrows, and Ranged Shot?

[Aurora_Girl]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Thank you. 
 

Removing the acc buff in trade for -spd? Or both speed and recharge debuff? Why not add a DoT bleeding effect? Or is it about the slow damage proc?

[A Cat]

Just now, Aurora_Girl said:

Thank you. 
 

Removing the acc buff in trade for -spd? Or both speed and recharge debuff? Why not add a DoT bleeding effect? Or is it about the slow damage proc?

You can't open the Pandora's Box of bleeding damage or all the ar/dp/claws/katana/bs/axe/other pointy object user I may be forgetting will be asking for it. 

[Aurora_Girl]

1 minute ago, A Cat said:

You can't open the Pandora's Box of bleeding damage or all the ar/dp/claws/katana/bs/axe/other pointy object user I may be forgetting will be asking for it. 

Damn! You saw right through my veiled attempt to bring up that exact same thing!

[A Cat]

51 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Damn! You saw right through my veiled attempt to bring up that exact same thing!

 

I guess it would be some compensation for the poor lethal damage dealers. Well, claws (other than stalker claws) is probably already good enough, and kat too probably. But I wouldn't say no...

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, A Cat said:

 

I guess it would be some compensation for the poor lethal damage dealers. Well, claws (other than stalker claws) is probably already good enough, and kat too probably. But I wouldn't say no...

Dual Blades is a strong set as well.  Savage has bleed already (and isn't very good).

[Ston]

3 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Thank you. 
 

Removing the acc buff in trade for -spd? Or both speed and recharge debuff? Why not add a DoT bleeding effect? Or is it about the slow damage proc?

 

It's all about the slow procs in my opinion. I think -defense would be fine too.

Every set except Archery, Fire, and Sonic has good opportunities for procs in ST attacks. Fire and Sonic have DoT and -Resistance to compensate, though. I don't think the 1.15x accuracy modifier is more valuable than procs. 

 

I think either PPM should be adjusted, or all sets should be on an even playing field when it comes to slotting procs... and Archery happens to be one of the weakest in that field IMO.

[Vanden]

8 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Or is it about the slow damage proc?

 

Of course it’s about procs, OP even said as much. It’s always about the damn procs. 

 

I really hate how high-level performance has become centralized around procs. What powers actually do has taken a backseat to how many procs they can slot. They’re long overdue for a balance pass.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Vanden

[A Cat]

9 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Of course it’s about procs, OP even said as much. It’s always about the damn procs. 

 

I really hate how high-level performance has become centralized around procs. What powers actually do has taken a backseat to how many procs they can slot. They’re long overdue for a balance pass.

I like procs personally. Maybe they're novel to me since I never really did much with them for a long while, including back on live, but to me, they are a way to "supercharge" an attack. It is expensive to do so since you forgot forgo set bonuses AND enhancement value to proc bomb something, and you can't slot any recharge at all normally. Generally a build could only afford one or two powers to take this treatment or you won't reach your other build goals. For the reason of mechanics, your heavy hitting single target attacks are prime candidates for this since they have longish recharge. I think it is cool to have long recharge heavy hitters. It feels really satisfying to see all the orange numbers and the chunk fall off your target's hp (or straight up deleting someone). Another prime beneficiary of the PPM formula are the epic single target holds, which still retain their value as holds, but add damage to some low damage AT's. They're not going to overshadow an actual DPS AT or anything but it is a nice bonus for the higher levels. It just seems to be another interesting thing to think about when in Mids, which personally I have a lot of fun with. 

[Ston]

12 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Of course it’s about procs, OP even said as much. It’s always about the damn procs. 

 

I really hate how high-level performance has become centralized around procs. What powers actually do has taken a backseat to how many procs they can slot. They’re long overdue for a balance pass.

 

I agree with this, but... I think if PPM hasn't changed by now, then it never will be. So it would be nice if all sets could have decent proc opportunities if they don't have a powerful secondary effect in endgame content. 

 

The new cold dmg proc gave an extra 72dmg to sets that were already strong, so it would be nice if Archery could join in on some of that fun.