Fire-Dark Sans Hot Feet?

[VV]

I am working up a Fire/Dark here and would like it to fly. With Tar Patch, is there any reason to take Hot Feet? I mean, I know Hot Feet doesn't work while flying, but if there was some amazing reason to take both Hot Feet and Tar Patch, I would consider superspeed instead of flight. But, as far as I can tell, there is nothing great that Hot Feet does that is not done better by Tar Patch. The tiny bit of damage is essentially pointless, unless I am missing something about it. Running around with an aggro aura kind of defeats the point of the Shadow Fall stealthiness. To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Hot Feet, anyway. So, if I could skip it, that would make me happier. But, if it really is super good for some reason, I'll work it in.

[LynxNordique]

Hot feet does Damage over Time, and Tar Patch debuffs resistance, so you are doing greater DoT with both. Of course, Hot feet defeats the point of Shadow fall stealthiness. However, Shadow fall is best for it's secondary effects: A decent Energy, psi and dark Energy resistance aura, with some defense and Fear protection. Combined with Fade (that can be made perma in some perma hasten build), set bonuses and a good Epic or Patron shield, Shadow fall is one of the reason that /dark trollers can be very decent Scraptrollers or  Tanktrollers.

 

I do have a Fire/Dark toon that I'm leveling. My only problem with Hot feet, but it's a major one, is that it's a major end hog even with Stamina 3 slotted. Before the toon being fully fleshed out (50 and all IOed out) it is very hard to run hot feet all the time, even considering that Soul absorbtion helps a bit (but has a long recharge). BonFire can probably do the trick, with knockback to knockdown proc in the meantime. 

 

So, it's you choice. Hot feet combined with Tar patch does help defeat foes faster. But the real problem of Hot feet is its very high end cost.

 

But on an Incarnate level Fire/dark Controller that has tons of recovery set bonuses, proc, Ageless destiny, Agilty Alpha and near perma Soul Absorption, I would not skip Hot Feet as it can transform that toon into a Freaking scraptrolling damage beast. 

[Without_Pause]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:32 AM, VV said:

The tiny bit of damage is essentially pointless, unless I am missing something about it.

Add in Containment and damage procs. Also, it has a slow aspect to it so mobs stay in it and your Tar Patch for longer. While it is an end hog, I can't fathom using Fire without it.

[Doomrider]

On 1/22/2022 at 2:32 AM, VV said:

I am working up a Fire/Dark here and would like it to fly. With Tar Patch, is there any reason to take Hot Feet? I mean, I know Hot Feet doesn't work while flying, but if there was some amazing reason to take both Hot Feet and Tar Patch, I would consider superspeed instead of flight. But, as far as I can tell, there is nothing great that Hot Feet does that is not done better by Tar Patch. The tiny bit of damage is essentially pointless, unless I am missing something about it. Running around with an aggro aura kind of defeats the point of the Shadow Fall stealthiness. To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Hot Feet, anyway. So, if I could skip it, that would make me happier. But, if it really is super good for some reason, I'll work it in.

You can use hot feet while flying. You just have to activate hot feet before you activate fly.

Also if you're not going to use Hot Feet, you're going to be missing a good chunk of the damage potential that fire has. It's a staple power of the set. Hot Feet does a lot of damage on a controller thanks to containment, and it has a 16 target cap. /Dark is already one of, if not THE most defensively robust controller secondaries so you can afford to hang out in melee and thus take full advantage of hot feet.

As for it's interaction with Shadow Fall's stealth aura, you can toggle off Hot Feet while stealthing and then toggle on when in combat. That's what I do on my Fire/Dark.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Doomrider

[Doomguide2005]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:32 AM, VV said:

I am working up a Fire/Dark here and would like it to fly. With Tar Patch, is there any reason to take Hot Feet? I mean, I know Hot Feet doesn't work while flying, but if there was some amazing reason to take both Hot Feet and Tar Patch, I would consider superspeed instead of flight. But, as far as I can tell, there is nothing great that Hot Feet does that is not done better by Tar Patch. The tiny bit of damage is essentially pointless, unless I am missing something about it. Running around with an aggro aura kind of defeats the point of the Shadow Fall stealthiness. To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Hot Feet, anyway. So, if I could skip it, that would make me happier. But, if it really is super good for some reason, I'll work it in.

     This is a game with petless MM builds, pool boy builds and the like.  It also has multiple builds.  If you want to try it out go for it.  I would say it is a less than optimal choice but not that suboptimal.  Note that while certainly ruins your Shadow Fall based stealth it does protect the user by generating a mag 3 Afraid ... a lot of the time will be spent slowly (real slowly if stacked atop Tar Patch) trying to run away from you.  It will also reduce the damage to your aggro monkeys again because they're trying to flee.  And Twilight's Grasp fires off around you so unless those Imps are flying too, healing them becomes more problematic.

[oedipus_tex]

Hot Feet is potentially skippable if you never solo but I consider that an "offbrand," unusual build. There are legitimate situations pre-IOing where it can put you at unneeded risk. It costs a lot of endurance to run, and if you end up on a team where you're much lower level than the rest of your group it can in some situations create more problems than its worth.

 

However I would definitely not skip it on a build where you plan to do any soloing. Hot Feet with Containment does respectable damage. The ability to solo well is a feature of Fire Control, so if you do skip it you're not taking advantage of that feature. Plus, Fire Control should in most cases be able to run Hot Feet safely in some team content and contribute some damage that way.

 

Once you have a strong end game build it depends a lot on how you intend to play. In most content its probably safe to run. You'll want to be smart about it though. It's often not worth using in content like iTrials, for example. Even if you use it only occasionally though it's still a power most people do want in the build for moments when they can use it.

Edited January 25, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[VV]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:58 AM, Without_Pause said:

Add in Containment and damage procs.

You don't think the Proc Rate is too low? It's under 20%. Does containment affect proc damage?

 

On 1/24/2022 at 1:20 PM, Doomrider said:

You can use hot feet while flying. You just have to activate hot feet before you activate fly.

WHOA WHOA WHOA Seriously??? Okay, that changes a lot.

 

Aight, you all convinced me. Sounds like a plan.

[Without_Pause]

Where are you getting this 20% from? Do realize one of the procs it takes is for FotG: -Res.

[Doomguide2005]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:11 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

     This is a game with petless MM builds, pool boy builds and the like.  It also has multiple builds.  If you want to try it out go for it.  I would say it is a less than optimal choice but not that suboptimal.  Note that while certainly ruins your Shadow Fall based stealth it does protect the user by generating a mag 3 Afraid ... a lot of the time will be spent slowly (real slowly if stacked atop Tar Patch) trying to run away from you.  It will also reduce the damage to your aggro monkeys again because they're trying to flee.  And Twilight's Grasp fires off around you so unless those Imps are flying too, healing them becomes more problematic.

     A Brute thread noted the Stealth aspect of Shadow Fall does NOT suppress when attacking or when attacked.   Only when you click on a mission object.  This is true for Darkness Affinity per CoD as well (and haven't verified but likely true for all cases of Shadow Fall).

Edited February 5, 2022 by Doomguide2005

[VV]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:40 AM, Without_Pause said:

Where are you getting this 20% from? Do realize one of the procs it takes is for FotG: -Res.

Mids tells you what the proc chance is for your procs. It is generally really low on auras, but, since the aura tics regularly, eventually the proc will hit. It's just unreliable.

[Without_Pause]

20 hours ago, VV said:

Mids tells you what the proc chance is for your procs. It is generally really low on auras, but, since the aura tics regularly, eventually the proc will hit. It's just unreliable.

People use procs in auras all the time. Likely due to how much their damage scales for the damage based ones as compared to the damage coming from the aura itself. HF needs acc and end redux, but once those are covered, I would add in the -Res proc and damage procs unless there is a set bonus you need to chase.

[Doomguide2005]

      Haven't built a character with Hot Feet in a long, long time but both for the benefit of the powers with procs and for HF I'd build for global accuracy.  Then use, likely 2, Microfilament HO's then procs and damage to taste (in 6 slots, no accuracy enhancement).  The Microfilaments cover endrdx and give a healthy dose of slow enhancement keeping them crawling around in HF while the procs and damage does its thing.

[VV]

Okay, this is what I got going on in the Hot Feet now. Is 133% Acc gonna be enough vs +4s? Or should I dump some damage and up the Acc even more?

[Frozen Burn]

Also to note:  Hot Feet has a -fly component to it, so you can drop them by just flying near them.  Yes, your immobs do too, but this can be handy at times as well if you want to drop them without immob'ing them - like to herd them together to where your Tar Patch is/will be.    

 

As for your slotting - there are many ways and theories out there.  Yes, your 133% acc is fine.  But consider the end cost - do you have enough overall recovery to for this slotting?  Do you need to swap out a proc to pic up some IOs with endredux in them? 

 

Also, the proc rate in Hot feet is not that great.  If I recall correctly, once every 10 secs, there is a chance a proc can fire in it.  So yes, more procs means more chances they will fire, but it's a gamble and not guaranteed all will - and then in the meantime you're doing minimal damage.  I personally slot a damage set that maxes the damage bonus (so I am guaranteed max damage from the power), has 70-80% endredux bonus, and then add in 1-2 procs to push the damage output over the top.  I prefer more constant max damage from the power with the occasional 1-2 procs firing vs. gambling on 6 procs with minor constant damage.  ....but that's just me.  Others may disagree. 

 

Also, with Tar Patch, I don't think you really need the -Resist proc in Hot Feet.  Normally, I would say it's a must have, but given you have Tar Patch that provides -Resist, you may be able to put something else in instead - just something to think about, especially if you need more endredux in it. 

 

[Doomguide2005]

36 minutes ago, VV said:

Okay, this is what I got going on in the Hot Feet now. Is 133% Acc gonna be enough vs +4s? Or should I dump some damage and up the Acc even more?

     The best way to tell is to use Mids.  If you go to the tab for Exemplar Effects and Math (I think, I can't verify these days) you can change your base hit value.  By default it sits at 75% (i.e. that 75% in parentheses next to the 133%), but in that tab you can change it to anything.  Change it to 39%, that's your base hit chance vs +4's.  And Mids should calculate it from their.  You should see that 75 turn into a 39.  As long as your 133 turns into a value over 95 you are golden.  If not then either global accuracy or your to hit value needs a boost.

[VV]

1 hour ago, Frozen Burn said:

As for your slotting - there are many ways and theories out there.  Yes, your 133% acc is fine.  But consider the end cost - do you have enough overall recovery to for this slotting?  Do you need to swap out a proc to pic up some IOs with endredux in them? 

Yeah, End is tight, but okay. 

 

1 hour ago, Frozen Burn said:

Also, the proc rate in Hot feet is not that great.  If I recall correctly, once every 10 secs, there is a chance a proc can fire in it.  So yes, more procs means more chances they will fire, but it's a gamble and not guaranteed all will - and then in the meantime you're doing minimal damage.  I personally slot a damage set that maxes the damage bonus (so I am guaranteed max damage from the power), has 70-80% endredux bonus, and then add in 1-2 procs to push the damage output over the top.  I prefer more constant max damage from the power with the occasional 1-2 procs firing vs. gambling on 6 procs with minor constant damage.  ....but that's just me.  Others may disagree. 

That tends to be my normal slotting for this kind of stuff, but pretty much everyone else in the thread said proc it out. 

 

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

 The best way to tell is to use Mids.  If you go to the tab for Exemplar Effects and Math (I think, I can't verify these days) you can change your base hit value.  By default it sits at 75% (i.e. that 75% in parentheses next to the 133%), but in that tab you can change it to anything.  Change it to 39%, that's your base hit chance vs +4's.  And Mids should calculate it from their.  You should see that 75 turn into a 39.  As long as your 133 turns into a value over 95 you are golden.  If not then either global accuracy or your to hit value needs a boost.

Awesome. You are correct, not quite all the way to 95. Looks like my overall Acc needs some help, actually.

Edited March 3, 2022 by VV

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, VV said:

Yeah, End is tight, but okay. 

 

That tends to be my normal slotting for this kind of stuff, but pretty much everyone else in the thread said proc it out. 

 

Awesome. You are correct, not quite all the way to 95. Looks like my overall Acc needs some help, actually.

     You have a few options.  Ultimately a lot depends on the rest of the build.  Increase Global Accuracy via set bonuses (another 25% would do it),  swap a proc for an Acc/-- IO (an Acc/Endred Multistrike perhaps) is the least build altering change but how's the accuracy on your other powers. Or you can increase your To Hit bonuses, a Kismet if you don't already have one is probably the least disruptive way to add to hit but probably not quite enough by itself.  Or some combo of the above.

[tidge]

 

I am in agreement with this:

On 3/3/2022 at 12:32 PM, Frozen Burn said:

Also, the proc rate in Hot feet is not that great.  If I recall correctly, once every 10 secs, there is a chance a proc can fire in it.  So yes, more procs means more chances they will fire, but it's a gamble and not guaranteed all will - and then in the meantime you're doing minimal damage.  I personally slot a damage set that maxes the damage bonus (so I am guaranteed max damage from the power), has 70-80% endredux bonus, and then add in 1-2 procs to push the damage output over the top.  I prefer more constant max damage from the power with the occasional 1-2 procs firing vs. gambling on 6 procs with minor constant damage.  ....but that's just me.  Others may disagree. 

 

I experimented with %procs in Hot Feet and I simply found it to be an unreliable source of damage. When the damage happens, it is nice, but ultimately I kept the slots and went with a set bonus instead. The set also allowed me to drive down the Endurance costs.

[Ankhammon]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:23 AM, tidge said:

 

I am in agreement with this:

 

I experimented with %procs in Hot Feet and I simply found it to be an unreliable source of damage. When the damage happens, it is nice, but ultimately I kept the slots and went with a set bonus instead. The set also allowed me to drive down the Endurance costs.

I've not done any experimentation on this but assuming containment you would be potentially shutting (Mids reported) 5 dps from proc damage. You'd be gaining a significant amount of containment damage (unknown really but MATH STUFF). You would also save a lot in the way of end cost of Hot Feet. I'd consider it optimal to not force in any procs on this power.

I'd be looking at 4 Multi-Strike and 2 Oblit assuming the slots were available. It would give 148.4% acc, 20.23 dps (no procs) and end cost down to 0.52. More manageable and all damage would be containable. plus some resistances to add to your totals in bonuses which look decent to me.

 

MATH STUFF:

Decently proc'd out with 3 procs 17.24(containable damage)*2(containment)*10(activations per period)+2*8(assumes getting all procs at first and 10th second)=360.6ish

Slotting from above and assuming Containment 20.23*2(containment)*10(activations per period)=404.6

slotting for containment shows a higher total on paper but dunno in game.

 

[bustacap]

In game you would still have 5% miss chance so maybe subtract that from your total. But if you're doing that might as well add Tarpatch (stacked with enough recharge)- resist and any - resist procs slotted in powers. Also, your damage bonuses and the damage from hotfeet itself. And this assumes your enemy has a starting resist of 0 to HF and the procs. 

 

 

So more MATHS, but probably quite a bit more.