EM+Rad or EM+bio

[PhoenixV117]

My only current scrapper is TW/bio, hits hard perma aoe chain with the cone and the aoe, also use whirlpool from the mako line for xx -res debuff and cc

but. It’s quite boring, how is rad armour and energy to play? The bio is fun but the Titan weapons is slow and clunky and feels more repetitive as a result for some reason. 
 

pros and cons, I’ve never played rad armour, what’s its survive like vs bio 

 

and how is the damage like vs bio, ( I run offensive adaptation perma) but I know rad has the two aoe proc abilities ? 
 

halp

 

also any good builds wouod be great so I can see what the skills are looking like : p ty

Edited February 7, 2022 by PhoenixV117

[Microcosm]

Check the last couple pages of the Pylon thread and the Trapdoor thread; we've been discussing this exact combo and there are some builds posted. TLDR: Rad has stronger survival potential and can help the AoE weak EM better than bio, so do that unless you want bio for some specific theme or general preference.

[StriderIV]

29 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

Check the last couple pages of the Pylon thread and the Trapdoor thread; we've been discussing this exact combo and there are some builds posted. TLDR: Rad has stronger survival potential and can help the AoE weak EM better than bio, so do that unless you want bio for some specific theme or general preference.

Hi Micro! From what I gather from the other posts is, due to the procs Rad Armor can take, it pretty much ALMOST matches /bio in damage, while being substantially sturdier.

 

It seems that most people like defense type based sets on scrappers, but /Rad seems to still be able to shine due to the tools in it’s tool belt. The extra +dmg Scrappers get from Meltdown (with no crash) is pretty nice as well.

[ScarySai]

Em and Rad play better together in actual gameplay IMO.

 

Em/bio if your only goal is to be a pylon hero. Bio's a great set, but I'd pair it with claws or something else, especially if you hate repeats like I do.

Edited February 8, 2022 by ScarySai

[PhoenixV117]

Thanks guys, just had a look, couldn’t see where the builds are posted though I must be blind 

 

but yeah looks like the pylon times are 15 seconds faster with bio 

but during gameplay the extra aoe from

rad will be needed to kill mobs

 

thanks 

[Gobbledigook]

Bio is not weak on AoE either. Proc DNA siphon and a damage aura. Rad is not that far ahead in AoE if at all.

[SeraphimKensai]

Another candidate that works really well is EM/SD.

 

Honestly all three have potential to be very strong. You can't go wrong, unless you slot them really weird.

[StriderIV]

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Another candidate that works really well is EM/SD.

 

Honestly all three have potential to be very strong. You can't go wrong, unless you slot them really weird.

I agree with this! My DM/Shield is great. I have to be honest, I have to remove my bias against resist sets on scrappers. I tend to only run Shield/Bio/EnA, but /Rad Armor is looking pretty nice. Probably because of all the other tools it brings in addition to being a pure resist set.

Edited February 8, 2022 by StriderIV

[SeraphimKensai]

17 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

I agree with this! My DM/Shield is great. I have to be honest, I have to remove my bias against resist sets on tankers. I tend to only run Shield/Bio/EnA, but /Rad Armor is looking pretty nice. Probably because of all the other tools it brings in addition to being a pure resist set.

I built a rad armor stalker to test making a resist set on a non tank/brute and was honestly surprised how strong rad armor on a stalker can be. I'm at work so I don't have all the stats with me, but it seems to play more like a brute who occasionally drops agro via a hide roll to crit 1 second later and remind them that the party isn't over until I say so.

[DarknessEternal]

Rad is better.  They have the same amount of clicking, but Rad's clicking is mostly attacks.  Bio has to click just to function defensively.

[StriderIV]

Just now, DarknessEternal said:

Rad is better.  They have the same amount of clicking, but Rad's clicking is mostly attacks.  Bio has to click just to function defensively.

Yeah, I’ve been seeing a lot of love for Rad lately. I want to give my first one a run. Torn between going a Rad/SS Tanker or EM/Rad Scrapper.

[Erratic1]

49 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

Rad is better.  They have the same amount of clicking, but Rad's clicking is mostly attacks.  Bio has to click just to function defensively.

 

Two "Oh Sh#t!" buttons if you need them and one "best practice" button you should use depending on condition (surrounded by a large group). Not exactly a clickfest.

[Gobbledigook]

12 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Rad is better.  They have the same amount of clicking, but Rad's clicking is mostly attacks.  Bio has to click just to function defensively.

Rad and bio both have one absorb and one AoE heal that can both be procced out. Rad has meltdown clicky and Bio has Parasitic Aura clicky. If anything Rad is more clicky with GZ as bio is a damage aura constantly on. Bio's absorb is much better than Rads.

 

I know bio on a Tanker is just as tanky and sometimes more, sometimes less depending on mobs than Rad. I am not sure on scrappers though. I sometimes forget i have Parasitic aura, i rarely use it except on extreme content. But Tankers do get the MotT proc to boost the resists.

 

Rad is good but so is Bio. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Without_Pause]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:10 AM, ScarySai said:

Em and Rad play better together in actual gameplay IMO.

Rad offers +recharge which EM is going to want.

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Rad offers +recharge which EM is going to want.

 

Hitting 30% harder and hitting 30% more often are same in terms of damage done over time, with the difference being the played experience--do you subjectively enjoy clicking more often or not. But +Recharge on Rad is dependent on the number of foes (capped with 10 foes at 25%) whereas +Damage on Bio is a fixed 30% (which comes with a hit to resistances).  The real +Recharge benefit to EM (or Bio for that matter) will come from IO set bonuses.

[Without_Pause]

20 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Hitting 30% harder and hitting 30% more often are same in terms of damage done over time, with the difference being the played experience--do you subjectively enjoy clicking more often or not. But +Recharge on Rad is dependent on the number of foes (capped with 10 foes at 25%) whereas +Damage on Bio is a fixed 30% (which comes with a hit to resistances).  The real +Recharge benefit to EM (or Bio for that matter) will come from IO set bonuses.

Those IO sets are likely coming later than when Rad's +recharge happens and unless you are soloing on the low end of the diff setting, you can crank that recharge. EM is a slow set. Getting that kind of recharge early makes life easier and gives the set a better feel versus Bio offering no recharge but more straight damage which honestly EM doesn't really need. How much death do you need to drop on that minion with less than 50% health when TF and ET are already involved? I skipped the T1 on my EM/ea and even then it felt slow until thankful I finally hit level 32. Without that +recharge? (chuckles) As you mentioned, getting that added damage bonus also means being less sturdy. Personally speaking, I don't use the offensive mode on my Rad/bio Brute unless I feel comfortable doing so. Lack of damage isn't the issue on the build.  Also note I'm running as high of a diff setting as I can tolerate. Sure, if I want to go brain dead cruise control +2/x8...

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

Those IO sets are likely coming later than when Rad's +recharge happens and unless you are soloing on the low end of the diff setting, you can crank that recharge. EM is a slow set. Getting that kind of recharge early makes life easier and gives the set a better feel versus Bio offering no recharge but more straight damage which honestly EM doesn't really need. How much death do you need to drop on that minion with less than 50% health when TF and ET are already involved? I skipped the T1 on my EM/ea and even then it felt slow until thankful I finally hit level 32. Without that +recharge? (chuckles) As you mentioned, getting that added damage bonus also means being less sturdy. Personally speaking, I don't use the offensive mode on my Rad/bio Brute unless I feel comfortable doing so. Lack of damage isn't the issue on the build.  Also note I'm running as high of a diff setting as I can tolerate. Sure, if I want to go brain dead cruise control +2/x8...

 

At low level you do not have +Recharge and even when you do without IO bonuses your survivability it not going to be allowing for a significant amount of +Recharge generating foes to be on you (though any amount is more than nothing).

 

Yeah, I do not tend to run Offensive on Bio (brute) as I have built to have Efficient on and do not leave that stance often. But there are people who do build to have Offensive as their default on state and as Bio is a hybrid armor set a significant portion of one's survivability is predicated on Defense, Absorb, and Regen, not Resistance (other than Smashing/Lethal). Still, building only towards the end build is not something I tend to do.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

At low level you do not have +Recharge and even when you do without IO bonuses your survivability it not going to be allowing for a significant amount of +Recharge generating foes to be on you (though any amount is more than nothing).

Scrappers get it at 20. I made no comment in terms of +recharge making it more survivable. My comment was how it impacts the early leveling with how the flow of EM will feel versus giving EM even more straight up damage.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

Scrappers get it at 20. I made no comment in terms of +recharge making it more survivable. My comment was how it impacts the early leveling with how the flow of EM will feel versus giving EM even more straight up damage.

 

I did not say +Recharge makes one more survivable (though it does in that you beat down  your foes before they beat you down). I was saying that in order to get a significant amount of recharge one would have to be able to survive the number of nearby foes to generate it. The point was I have doubts about how meaningful +Recharge can be unless you're taking on groups of 6-8 opponents at a time--something which a character at low levels will have difficulty surviving.

 

10% base + 2.5% per foe around you. To be at 30%--roughly the benefit of having slotted a +Recharge SO/IO--you would need 8 foes. At level 20 I am not generally fighting 8 guys at once but YMMV.

 

Edit: Wanted to say that I have considered an EM/EA character because of +Recharge. What stops me is I have NEVER made a character with matching primary and secondary. May be a good reason to consider an EM/Rad instead. Or perhaps a Rad/EA. 🙂

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Erratic1

[ScarySai]

30 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

The point was I have doubts about how meaningful +Recharge can be unless you're taking on groups of 6-8 opponents at a time--something which a character at low levels will have difficulty surviving.

 

The global recharge also allows you to proc an EM/rad more aggressively without worrying too much about gimping your attack chains. Rad therapy and ground zero also significantly boost EM's general clear speed enough to make up for not having offensive mode.

 

The combo definitely is still pretty good without procs, I tested in case of the impending nerf being too heavy handed. EM/BIO will surely melt AVs slightly faster, but I do think rad's the better pairing overall.

[DarknessEternal]

6 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

The combo definitely is still pretty good without procs, I tested in case of the impending nerf being too heavy handed.

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but it's not coming.

[ScarySai]

Just now, DarknessEternal said:

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but it's not coming.

 

I always plan for the worst case scenario when it comes to characters I like. /shrug

 

 

[StriderIV]

25 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

The global recharge also allows you to proc an EM/rad more aggressively without worrying too much about gimping your attack chains. Rad therapy and ground zero also significantly boost EM's general clear speed enough to make up for not having offensive mode.

 

The combo definitely is still pretty good without procs, I tested in case of the impending nerf being too heavy handed. EM/BIO will surely melt AVs slightly faster, but I do think rad's the better pairing overall.

Is there anyway your EM/Rad Scrapper could clear as fast as your Rad/SS Tanker? Because that thing is unreal. You went God mode in that run 😂

[StriderIV]

18 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

I always plan for the worst case scenario when it comes to characters I like. /shrug

 

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best lol

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 

The global recharge also allows you to proc an EM/rad more aggressively without worrying too much about gimping your attack chains. Rad therapy and ground zero also significantly boost EM's general clear speed enough to make up for not having offensive mode.

 

The combo definitely is still pretty good without procs, I tested in case of the impending nerf being too heavy handed. EM/BIO will surely melt AVs slightly faster, but I do think rad's the better pairing overall.

Have you procced out the DnA Siphon? similar to Rad Therapy. 

 

I have both a Rad/SS and a Bio/SS Tanker and i would say the clearing of trash wasn't much different on either of them. The Bio will take down a hard target faster though. Rad is good for jumping from mob to mob though when there is time taken doing that as the AoE's will recover some. But there isn't a huge amount in it.

 

Rad anything is always a good choice but don't underestimate Bio. Bio does need a really good build but Rad is a bit more foregiving.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Gobbledegook