Does Eagle Claw have a "hidden" critical chance after executing the attack?

[arcane]

3 hours ago, leeowensoas said:

Tanks and brutes get a damage percentage buff, not NEARLY as good and doesn’t make up for the DPA at all. The DO however get that glorious +Def in Storm Kick (I legit think Tanker SK has to be one of the best attacks in the entire game.)

 

Oh well, I got excited for a second. Yeah Tanker Storm Kick is quite fire.

[leeowensoas]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

It should depend on the attack it's slotted in. In CoD, look up the "Animation Time Before Effect" field (I call this Hit Time). That should be how far into the animation for an effect (such as a proc) to fire. That would be the start time of the critical hit buff window from CS.

 

Edit: here is a pro-tip. Sometimes alternate animations will have different Hit Times. For example, Eagles Claw has a hit time at 1.3s, but if you use the alternate animation the Hit time is at 1.5s. That extra 0.2s might help you with buff windows.

This info ought to be stickied on the scrapper boards along with info on how to optimize the critical strikes proc. Maybe it’s already there but I can’t remember seeing anything so specific/technical? I still see a lot of misunderstanding about how the proc works, but even beyond that a lot of people seem to just throw it wherever and hope for the best, which just leaves a lot of damage on the table. Maybe someone should write a mini guide, idk, I feel like leveraging this proc is what makes my scrappers *feel* like scrappers, and not just generic melee, and finally got me off my brute addiction

 

For instance, I used to debate between putting the CS proc in Vengeful Slice (instead of the obvious Blinding Feint), but the effect begins only .467 sec into the animation, which means more than 2 seconds of the crit window is eaten by VS’s animation time. In BF, only .9 sec are wasted on animation time. And then on something like Devastation Blow, another slow animating attack, the impact is 2.2 seconds into the animation, so it only wastes .7 sec of the crit window. This stuff is SO valuable to know, especially when trying to figure out if you can fit two (or even 3) boosted attacks into the window, thank you Bopper!

 

Another example is that if the CS proc is in Follow Up, one can conceivably fit a Focus->Shockwave/Strike->Slash/Spin all into the crit window. Moving Slash to the third spot in the chain prevents the fourth attack from fitting in the window, so for instance:

FU->F->Strike->Slash

       is BETTER than

FU->F->Slash->Strike 

      even though they use the same four attacks in the same rotation, and for the

FU->F->Slash rotation you don’t get the extra crit chance on the next FU, and tanks the chances of the CS proc as it requires so much slotted recharge in FU (@BillZBubba you seein this?)

 

looks like with the alt. Animation EC makes a great mule for the CS proc, easily can fit a SK then another attack into the remaining crit window. The EC inherent crit bonus, unfortunately, seems to trigger after only 1.1 sec, meaning it truly will only effect the NEXT attack, no matter how short the animation. Meaning you have to choose to follow with SK for single target or DT for AoE, or go EC->SK->DT and lose the 33% on DT

 

last question, how do you see alternate animations in City of Data (like the eagle claw example)

Edited February 11, 2022 by leeowensoas

[Bopper]

31 minutes ago, leeowensoas said:

The EC inherent crit bonus, unfortunately, seems to trigger after only 1.1 sec, meaning it truly will only effect the NEXT attack, no matter how short the animation. Meaning you have to choose to follow with SK for single target or DT for AoE, or go EC->SK->DT and lose the 33% on DT

 

last question, how do you see alternate animations in City of Data (like the eagle claw example)

You are misreading what the 1.1s delay is saying. The effect of the EC crit buff starts 1.1s after Hit Time. So for the standard animation, that means the window begins at 1.3s + 1.1s = 2.4s. If you use the the alternate animation, it is 1.5s + 1.1s = 2.6s, which I think is fine because of arcanatime, but it's worth paying attention to the crit rate of your queued attack that follows EC. There is a small chance that it will not be buffed because the cast of that power will happen before the buff is applied. I was the one who found this to be bugged before I27 came out, as it used to be set to a 1.2s delay. My data showed the alternate animation was typically missing out on buffing the next attack. This got changed to 1.1s delay in hopes of fixing that, however I never went back to test this.

 

To look at hit times of alternate animations in CoD you will first need to click the checkbox that will show you Raw Data. It will display all the raw data in JSON format at the bottom of the page. In this data, you will see the hit time of all the alternate animations. I'll include a screenshot from my phone to show you what this looks like. Pay attention to Frames Before Hit, this is the number you care about. To convert it to seconds, just divide by 30 (animation is 30 Hz).

Edited February 11, 2022 by Bopper

[StrikerFox]

Tested the superior ATO2 in EC, using the attack chain EC-CAK-SK-repeat. Used unslotters on my ingame build so it's not a seamless chain (Gap between SK and EC). Can probably get there with a build rework and respec.

 

Critical Strikes activated frequently and when it did, most times both CAK AND SK crits! About 119 attacks, 67 crits, 56% crit, 39 increased crit chance from EC, 26 increased crit chance from ATO2. Also if it matters any, I use the alternate, punch animation for SK.

 

Don't bother fiddling with the volume, there's no sound in the video.

 

 

 

[Bopper]

7 hours ago, Bopper said:

You are misreading what the 1.1s delay is saying. The effect of the EC crit buff starts 1.1s after Hit Time. So for the standard animation, that means the window begins at 1.3s + 1.1s = 2.4s. If you use the the alternate animation, it is 1.5s + 1.1s = 2.6s, which I think is fine because of arcanatime, but it's worth paying attention to the crit rate of your queued attack that follows EC. There is a small chance that it will not be buffed because the cast of that power will happen before the buff is applied. I was the one who found this to be bugged before I27 came out, as it used to be set to a 1.2s delay. My data showed the alternate animation was typically missing out on buffing the next attack. This got changed to 1.1s delay in hopes of fixing that, however I never went back to test this.

I just tested the 2nd animation and I'm noticing the first attack was not getting buffed. So with that in mind, I would recommend using the default animation. With 30 samples, and a rotation of EC > SK > TK > CK, I had the following performance:

SK: 6 crits out of 29 (20.7%)

TK: 15 crits out of 30 (50%)

CK: 5 crits out of 30 (16.7%)

 

I believe the RWZ dummy is a Minion, so this rate checks out. I have a 6% global buff from ATO, 5% base chance (SK is 10% base). It appears only TK was getting the buff in this rotation.

[SomeGuy]

I'm having some fun results with MA/NIN/Snipe Scrapper. Averaging in the 1:40s on pylons so far.

 

This build is going well:

 

 

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ti Kwan Leep: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 2: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(9), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 4: Shinobi-Iri -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 6: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(11), GssSynFr--ToHit(11), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(15), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(15), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(25), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 14: Boxing -- AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun(45), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(48), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(49), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(49)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(19), GldStr-%Dam(21), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(21), AchHee-ResDeb%(23)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(40), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(48), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(48)
Level 22: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(23), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(37), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(27), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33), TchofDth-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(47)
Level 35: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(39), StnoftheM-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(40)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(50), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(42), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(17), PwrTrns-EndMod(47)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 14: Double Jump
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 
 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by SomeGuy

[ScarySai]

6 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

I'm having some fun results with MA/NIN/Snipe Scrapper. Averaging in the 1:40s on pylons so far.

 

Shame that eagle claw change never made it in, MA/ninja was going to be my new scrapper, lol. How ya like it for clearing?