Does Eagle Claw have a "hidden" critical chance after executing the attack?

[Nightmare Shaman]

Having never played MA on live, I have no personal experience with it.  But, I keep hearing people mention some kind of hidden critical chance applied to the next attack after EC executes.  Is that true?  To be clear, I know EC has an inherent 15% chance for a critical.  And, I'm not referring to using to the scrapper specific IO sets.  Just the power itself.

Thanks.

[Bill Z Bubba]

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=scrapper_melee.martial_arts.eagles_claw&at=scrapper

 

Looks like yes. Why it's listed 3 times I've no clue.

[aethereal]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=scrapper_melee.martial_arts.eagles_claw&at=scrapper

 

Looks like yes. Why it's listed 3 times I've no clue.

It's listed three times so that it improves your crit chance vs minions, vs lieutenant+, and vs players.

[StrikerFox]

I believe it's a +33% crit chance to the following attack. I think it only applies to MA powers. I see a lot of crits with Dragon's Tail after EC, but none with Shield Charge.

 

I remember near the end when the game was still live, players notice an uptick in dps using EC in their chain. That was probably due to the increased crit chance.

[Nightmare Shaman]

Thank you all.  That definitely adds some intrigue to how I'm going to build this character.  

[ScarySai]

This was a buff to the power at some point, I forget when but it was sometime after Cimerora. Cobra strike used to also basically just stun and do no damage.

 

Of course, with the atos we have now, this buff kinda doesn't matter as much anymore.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ScarySai

[SomeGuy]

I just read this as Eagle Claw slotted whatever.  Crippling Axe Kick with ATO2.

[leeowensoas]

Eagle’s claw is a great recipient for the Critical Strikes proc with its long animation! Easy to get that thing firing off like 3/4 of the time, making it a great setup (in combination with the global +crit) for:

94%+ Critical Dragon’s Tail/Snipe/Ball Lightning 

100% Critical Storm Kick

[SomeGuy]

5 hours ago, leeowensoas said:

Eagle’s claw is a great recipient for the Critical Strikes proc with its long animation! Easy to get that thing firing off like 3/4 of the time, making it a great setup (in combination with the global +crit) for:

94%+ Critical Dragon’s Tail/Snipe/Ball Lightning 

100% Critical Storm Kick

 

 

They stack?

[arcane]

5 hours ago, leeowensoas said:

Eagle’s claw is a great recipient for the Critical Strikes proc with its long animation! Easy to get that thing firing off like 3/4 of the time, making it a great setup (in combination with the global +crit) for:

94%+ Critical Dragon’s Tail/Snipe/Ball Lightning 

100% Critical Storm Kick

Is it ever good enough to counterbalance the DPA though?

[Bopper]

5 hours ago, leeowensoas said:

94%+ Critical Dragon’s Tail/Snipe/Ball Lightning

Snipe and Ball Lightning won't be impacted by Eagles Claw 

[Bopper]

22 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

They stack?

Yes

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Is it ever good enough to counterbalance the DPA though?

Eagle>storm>axe>storm is one of the better chains for the set.

 

Would have been the best if that buff happened, but either way, it's worth it if you take EC.

[arcane]

47 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Eagle>storm>axe>storm is one of the better chains for the set.

 

Would have been the best if that buff happened, but either way, it's worth it if you take EC.

Cool. I need to respec my Elec/Martial. I’m currently using 4 S/T attacks and it’s cramping my style not having an epic pool right now! Thanks 🙂
 

Wait hang on... is this all exclusive to Scrappers or is it still good on Tanks? It’s got a damage buff or something on there too..

Edited February 10, 2022 by arcane

[StrikerFox]

Would it make sense to slot the ATO2 in SK? Running a chain like EC-SK-CAK-SK GIVES THE ATO2 a chance to proc twice in the chain. Since EC gives the next power a +33% chance to crit, one of the two SKs would have an increased chance anyways.

[arcane]

8 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Would it make sense to slot the ATO2 in SK? Running a chain like EC-SK-CAK-SK GIVES THE ATO2 a chance to proc twice in the chain. Since EC gives the next power a +33% chance to crit, one of the two SKs would have an increased chance anyways.

I imagine the mathematical answer is something like “If the ATO proc rate on Storm Kick is more than half the ATO proc rate on Eagle’s Claw, then 2 Storm Kicks yield more crits than 1 Eagle’s Claw”

[leeowensoas]

8 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Would it make sense to slot the ATO2 in SK? Running a chain like EC-SK-CAK-SK GIVES THE ATO2 a chance to proc twice in the chain. Since EC gives the next power a +33% chance to crit, one of the two SKs would have an increased chance anyways.

I haven’t crunched the numbers, but just guessing off the top of my head, the ATO2 proc would have a pretty low chance in SK (though you get 2 chances per rotation) especially with it needing fairly high slotted recharge. My personal build strategy is to put it into whichever power I can leverage it the most consistently, aiming for 50% plus odds of it firing off. EC has the best odds in the set, AND the extra 33% chance, so it basically makes a perfect setup attack

 

54 minutes ago, arcane said:

Wait hang on... is this all exclusive to Scrappers or is it still good on Tanks? It’s got a damage buff or something on there too..

Tanks and brutes get a damage percentage buff, not NEARLY as good and doesn’t make up for the DPA at all. The DO however get that glorious +Def in Storm Kick (I legit think Tanker SK has to be one of the best attacks in the entire game.)

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

Snipe and Ball Lightning won't be impacted by Eagles Claw 

How were you able to confirm this? At least on City of Data 2.0 it looked like it applied to everything

[SomeGuy]

EC buff lasts for 2s. ATO2 for 3.25s. Sounds good to me. EC-SK-CAK-Snipe? I dunno. I'll figure it out.

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ti Kwan Leep: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), TchofDth-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(49)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(9), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 6: Shinobi-Iri -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 8: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(11), GssSynFr--ToHit(11), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(15), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(15), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(25), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(23), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(19), GldStr-%Dam(21), ImpSwf-Dam%(21), AchHee-ResDeb%(23)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(40), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(48), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(48)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(37), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(27), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33), TchofDth-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(47)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36)
Level 38: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(39), StnoftheM-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(42), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(48)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(17), PwrTrns-EndMod(47)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 14: Double Jump
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 

[Bopper]

43 minutes ago, leeowensoas said:

How were you able to confirm this? At least on City of Data 2.0 it looked like it applied to everything

Eagles Claw adds a buff to the ECCritModSmall, ECCritModLarge, and ECCritModPlayer tags. Epics don't use those tags for their crits, only Martial Arts attacks do

[leeowensoas]

57 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Eagles Claw adds a buff to the ECCritModSmall, ECCritModLarge, and ECCritModPlayer tags. Epics don't use those tags for their crits, only Martial Arts attacks do

Ahh, thank you! I was looking for the line in City of Data and couldn’t figure out what I was looking at. That’s a shame,

still pretty glorious with Dragon’s Tail tho. Helps it feel like a way better AoE than it is. Almost worth taking for that reason alone

 

do stalkers get the bonus crit chance too? Seems like it could be leveraged weirdly in that set too but idk

Edited February 10, 2022 by leeowensoas

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, leeowensoas said:

Ahh, thank you! I was looking for the line in City of Data and couldn’t figure out what I was looking at. That’s a shame,

still pretty glorious with Dragon’s Tail tho. Helps it feel like a way better AoE than it is. Almost worth taking for that reason alone

 

do stalkers get the bonus crit chance too? Seems like it could be leveraged weirdly in that set too but idk

Dragons Tail is probably the best version of the standard 8' radius PBAoE attacks most sets get due to having a faster cast time than others (1.5s, while others are around 2.5s). But yes, the EC Crit makes it feel much better as well.

 

Stalkers currently get no buffs whatsoever. Not sure why. 

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

EC buff lasts for 2s. ATO2 for 3.25s. Sounds good to me. EC-SK-CAK-Snipe? I dunno. I'll figure it out.

 

 

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This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ti Kwan Leep: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), TchofDth-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(49)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(9), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 6: Shinobi-Iri -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/Rchg(7), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 8: Focus Chi -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(11), GssSynFr--ToHit(11), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(15), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(15), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(17)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(25), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(23), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(19), GldStr-%Dam(21), ImpSwf-Dam%(21), AchHee-ResDeb%(23)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(40), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(43), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(48), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(48)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(37), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(27), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- HO:Nucle(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33), TchofDth-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(47)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36)
Level 38: Zapp -- HO:Nucle(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam%(39), StnoftheM-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(40)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(42), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(48)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(17), PwrTrns-EndMod(47)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 14: Double Jump
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 
 

 

 

 

Is it 3.25s for both normal and superior versions? I thought it's longer for superior. I'm not in front of the computer and can't check but if EC can get enough recharge to run EC-CAK-SK-repeat, with ATO2 slotted in CAK, it would give all 3 powers an extra chance to crit.

 

[leeowensoas]

51 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Dragons Tail is probably the best version of the standard 8' radius PBAoE attacks most sets get due to having a faster cast time than others (1.5s, while others are around 2.5s). But yes, the EC Crit makes it feel much better as well.

 

Stalkers currently get no buffs whatsoever. Not sure why. 

That’s a good point. Whirling Mace on its own is suuuper underwhelming, but when you also have crowd control you don’t feel it nearly as much as on a set like MA or the old EM, where it’s your ONLY AoE. And the fast cast makes it less annoying to spam and easier to fit additional attacks into the CS proc window.

 

Actually while I’ve got you, Bopper, any word on exactly *when* in the attack animation the CS proc fires? I can consistently get 2 fast crit attacks in the window after it procs, but in theory I ought to maybe get 3 on a fast animating set. Does the window start at the END of the animation of the attack containing the proc? Or at the start? (It’s okay if you don’t know this either, but I know you’re the numbers guy). Also would be especially valuable to know w/regards to eagles claw and it’s boosted crit window
 

and geez, Stalker Martial Arts is a set that *really* needs to be updated. It would be so easy, just drop the super redundant Crane Kick (literally just a worse Crippling Axe Kick and an equivalent to Cobra Strike but with the knockback slot tax, and only baaaarely better than Cross Punch, but that’s also a cone that gives +rech and can hold the FotG proc) for Dragon’s Tail, and give Eagle’s Claw the critical boost from the Scrapper set. I know it’s a small dev crew so I don’t like to ask much, but this just seems like it would be SO simple to do, and I honestly can’t imagine anyone complaining. Assassin’s kick? is already a way better replacement for Crane Kick, it’s such an easy change! Okay whoops rant over, I didn’t realize how much I apparently cared about this

Edited February 10, 2022 by leeowensoas

[Bopper]

20 minutes ago, leeowensoas said:

Actually while I’ve got you, Bopper, any word on exactly *when* in the attack animation the CS proc fires? I can consistently get 2 fast crit attacks in the window after it procs, but in theory I ought to maybe get 3 on a fast animating set. Does the window start at the END of the animation of the attack containing the proc? Or at the start? (It’s okay if you don’t know this either, but I know you’re the numbers guy). Also would be especially valuable to know w/regards to eagles claw and it’s boosted crit window

It should depend on the attack it's slotted in. In CoD, look up the "Animation Time Before Effect" field (I call this Hit Time). That should be how far into the animation for an effect (such as a proc) to fire. That would be the start time of the critical hit buff window from CS.

 

Edit: here is a pro-tip. Sometimes alternate animations will have different Hit Times. For example, Eagles Claw has a hit time at 1.3s, but if you use the alternate animation the Hit time is at 1.5s. That extra 0.2s might help you with buff windows.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Bopper

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, StrikerFox said:

 

Is it 3.25s for both normal and superior versions? I thought it's longer for superior. I'm not in front of the computer and can't check but if EC can get enough recharge to run EC-CAK-SK-repeat, with ATO2 slotted in CAK, it would give all 3 powers an extra chance to crit.

 

 

 

I'm not sure, I've only messed with the Superior version. I was just thinking EC due to the extra crit chance that EC gives not effecting other powers. Not like unslotters are expensive. I'll try both. My first idea was exactly that. EC chance and CAK chance. But they stack. Now I'm all like HMMM WHAT DO NOW oh wait i'll just test it out and see

 

Having an extra 91% chance to crit when ATO2 goes off sounds neat.

Edited February 10, 2022 by SomeGuy