Stuff like this is why you avoid Dell/Alienware like the plague.

[Hyperstrike]

Absolute crap.

You do NOT want these computers.
I don't care HOW sexy they seem.

They're overpriced e-waste.

https://youtu.be/DY1dlVPzUVo

 

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

Note: Something screwy with the forums this morning.
Embedding YT videos not working.

[MoonSheep]

i think they’ve always been that way - i suppose people pay for the convenience/design. you can of course get a better value pre-built from more specialist companies though not everyone who wants to game is necessarily techy

 

i built my first rig specifically for CoH back in 2005 and did the same again in 2019 when it came back! a lot less neon lights and gimmicks this time though haha

[Marine X]

I have a Dell Inspiron Gaming PC that has been absolutely perfect from day one and is still working great today after years of use, Inspiron 5675, Ryzen 3 1200 quad Core, 16 gig Ram (32), 2 Gb AMD Radeon RX560 with a 2 TB hard drive and very little Bloatware. It was $749.99 new about 4 years ago, I got more than I paid for.

All that aside, Alienware has been on a steady decline ever since Dell acquired them and it only gets worse. At $5000.00, they did not get what they paid for, period.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Marine X

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i think they’ve always been that way - i suppose people pay for the convenience/design. you can of course get a better value pre-built from more specialist companies though not everyone who wants to game is necessarily techy

 

i built my first rig specifically for CoH back in 2005 and did the same again in 2019 when it came back! a lot less neon lights and gimmicks this time though haha

Yeah.  My rig has all the LED crap.  But I've turned it all OFF.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Marine X said:

I have a Dell Inspiron Gaming PC that has been absolutely perfect from day one and is still working great today after years of use, Inspiron 5675, Ryzen 3 1200 quad Core, 16 gig Ram (32), 2 Gb AMD Radeon RX560 with a 2 TB hard drive and very little Bloatware. It was $749.99 new about 4 years ago, I got more than I paid for.

All that aside, Alienware has been on a steady decline ever since Dell acquired them and it only gets worse. At $5000.00, they did not get what they paid for, period.

The main problem with Dell E-waste-ware machines is that they're mostly non-upgradeable  And as you can see, uses totally proprietary parts  SO you can't just transplant a system into a new/better case.

[Infinitum]

I have a Dell Optiplex 790sff.

 

 

 

 

That has been gutted and modified, upgraded to SSD, SFF NVidia graphics and Maxed out RAM.  

 

I built 5 of them actually a few years ago to network Champions Online in the house.  Then COH returned and Champions probably won the dog in the divorce.

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

I have a Dell Optiplex 790sff.

 

That has been gutted and modified, upgraded to SSD, SFF NVidia graphics and Maxed out RAM.  

 

I built 5 of them actually a few years ago to network Champions Online in the house.  Then COH returned and Champions probably won the dog in the divorce.

You have machines that were built 10-11 years ago.
Dell was a very different company back then.
Basically ANYTHING you buy from Dell TODAY is non-standard nascent e-waste.
It doesn't mean it doesn't WORK (mostly).

What it means is that beyond, maybe, RAM upgrades, you're STUCK with that exact machine layout.
Because the way the system is built, you quite simply CANNOT accept industry standard components.

And this is on a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR SYSTEM!

Here's the Alienware R10 from last year.

And here's one of their G5 desktop series

Now don't get me wrong.
I actually OWN a G5 series LAPTOP.
Outside of the chiclet keyboard arrows, it's been a TOTALLY acceptable system.
But it's a LAPTOP.  NOBODY expects to be able to tear it down and rebuild with newer components.

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

You have machines that were built 10-11 years ago.
Dell was a very different company back then.
Basically ANYTHING you buy from Dell TODAY is non-standard nascent e-waste.
It doesn't mean it doesn't WORK (mostly).

What it means is that beyond, maybe, RAM upgrades, you're STUCK with that exact machine layout.
Because the way the system is built, you quite simply CANNOT accept industry standard components.

And this is on a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR SYSTEM!

Here's the Alienware R10 from last year.

And here's one of their G5 desktop series

Now don't get me wrong.
I actually OWN a G5 series LAPTOP.
Outside of the chiclet keyboard arrows, it's been a TOTALLY acceptable system.
But it's a LAPTOP.  NOBODY expects to be able to tear it down and rebuild with newer components.

That sounds like some car manufacturers also - cars from 15-20 years ago are still more reliable than the crap they peddle today - selling all the fancy screens voices and gadgets - but the thing that matters most the mechanics of the car is crap.

[biostem]

They sell you on a fancy-looking case with all these bells and whistles, hoping that you don't look under the hood or have knowledge enough to consider future upgradability or parts replacement/maintenance...

[starro]

Acquaintance has twice lemon swapped out Alienware laptop under five years. It is nice they honor the warranty but the down time / speed to replace was unacceptable and measured in weeks/months.  It’s like there were multiple items and multiple times the laptop came back to go back in the following week. Why not fix all at once or really test it out?   The system board was deemed dead so it was shipped off to some service center and went into limbo for a month with no word.
 

I would always recommend shop around. 

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

They sell you on a fancy-looking case with all these bells and whistles, hoping that you don't look under the hood or have knowledge enough to consider future upgradability or parts replacement/maintenance...

And they're selling you a positively ANCIENT case dressed up with hacks and work-arounds that quite literally cost MORE than simply commissioning or licensing a new case.
Building an adapter bracket to mount a 120mm AIO onto an 80mm fan slot?
That's some 1990's crap right there!

[Bill Z Bubba]

I've always been a build it myself guy but my current gaming rig has a 9 year old motherboard/proc and a 1080 founders edition. As my year long vacation comes to a close today (oh joy, job hunting starts tomorrow,) I've been looking at the offerings over at buildredux.com and they seem reasonable but I'm still wary. But it being two months til I ding 50 in RL, figured now as a good time as any to get some bleeding edge back into my office but do it on the lazy.

 

Are there any prebuilt shops known for reliability and good customer service or is that just a pipe dream?

[ShardWarrior]

I have two older Alienware laptops.  One which I purchased years ago and one which I inherited from a former co-worker.  Both are running fine after many years. Never had a problem with either of them.  YMMV I guess.  With that said, I would agree there are better options out there and Alienware is overpriced.  Not really a Dell fan myself.  I have had some very bad service issues with them in the past and would not recommend them.

Edited April 25, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[biostem]

6 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

And they're selling you a positively ANCIENT case dressed up with hacks and work-arounds that quite literally cost MORE than simply commissioning or licensing a new case.
Building an adapter bracket to mount a 120mm AIO onto an 80mm fan slot?
That's some 1990's crap right there!

And they are gambling on you not realizing that;  Look!  It has RGB lights!  Don't look behind the curtain!

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I have two older Alienware laptops.  One which I purchased years ago and one which I inherited from a former co-worker.  Both are running fine after many years. Never had a problem with either of them.  YMMV I guess.  With that said, I would agree there are better options out there and Alienware is overpriced.  Not really a Dell fan myself.  I have had some very bad service issues with them in the past and would not recommend them.

Please understand.  Laptops are a completely different beast.
They're mostly non-upgradeable by their very nature.
We're talking about desktop machines.

PCs have been more or less standardized for 30+ years.  With minor tweaks here and there.
Things like 120 and 140mm fans have been BASIC kit for 10+ years now.
Things like mutant power supplies, ultra-short "just fits" wiring, and mutant motherboard form factors?
Crap, crap and mega-crap.

Even if you have money to BURN, or you need a machine RIGHT FRICKIN' NOW, these sorts of things should be avoided like the computer herpes they are.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Please understand.  Laptops are a completely different beast.
They're mostly non-upgradeable by their very nature.
We're talking about desktop machines.

 

I understood the discussion perfectly fine.  I was adding my experience with Alienware products and Dell.

[SeraphimKensai]

Alienware used to be decent when it was a boutique. Once they were purchased by Dell, things went downhill fast from there as they started using cheap components, selling for Alienware's boutique pricing and providing lackluster support and updates.

[Shenanigunner]

Alienware started off building very decent systems, a bit heavy on all the mobo flashers and such as those came along, but solid systems. Wouldn't have one as a gift now.

 

Dell once made decent, solid systems, but hasn't for decades. I have built nearly every computer for myself, family, business etc. with one exception: about 15 years ago I needed two computers for floating staff to use, when they dropped into the company offices. I bought two box Dell systems. I have never hated any inanimate product more than those two POS's. Starting with all the gritware that was IMPOSSIBLE to remove from the desktop — merged somehow at a deep system level, couldn't even deep-dive and delete files to get rid of them. And, of course, nearly all box computers are proprietary parts now, so you have to buy a $350 modular power supply instead of a $75 standard-config one.

 

My sincere recommendation is that no one ever buy a desktop. Get someone to build one for you from absolutely standardized components.

 

But, of course, everyone just uses laptops now, a configuration I have yet to find a use for in almost 40 years. Combine the worst of box computers, lack of options and abysmal UI/ergonomics, and you get a laptop.

[Shenanigunner]

10 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

And they're selling you a positively ANCIENT case dressed up with hacks and work-arounds that quite literally cost MORE than simply commissioning or licensing a new case.

 

And nothing is worse than an out-of-fashion case, especially when standard components haven't changed in about 15 years. Chrome something, dammit!

 

[Hyperstrike]

19 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

Alienware started off building very decent systems, a bit heavy on all the mobo flashers and such as those came along, but solid systems. Wouldn't have one as a gift now.

 

Dell once made decent, solid systems, but hasn't for decades. I have built nearly every computer for myself, family, business etc. with one exception: about 15 years ago I needed two computers for floating staff to use, when they dropped into the company offices. I bought two box Dell systems. I have never hated any inanimate product more than those two POS's. Starting with all the gritware that was IMPOSSIBLE to remove from the desktop — merged somehow at a deep system level, couldn't even deep-dive and delete files to get rid of them. And, of course, nearly all box computers are proprietary parts now, so you have to buy a $350 modular power supply instead of a $75 standard-config one.

 

My sincere recommendation is that no one ever buy a desktop. Get someone to build one for you from absolutely standardized components.

 

But, of course, everyone just uses laptops now, a configuration I have yet to find a use for in almost 40 years. Combine the worst of box computers, lack of options and abysmal UI/ergonomics, and you get a laptop.

On a decent system, a modular PSU isn't a bad thing.  It allows you to cut down on cable clutter.  Which usually is beneficial for air cooling.
JUST SO LONG AS THEY PROVIDE YOU WITH THE FULL CABLE PACKAGE.  Otherwise...what's the point?

As for finding a use for a laptop?
Travel.
Long, long ago, on a back far, FAR less abused than mine is now, I used to tote a complete full tower system to conventions.

• Solid steel full Tower
• 21" CRT
• HP LaserJet IIISi OFFICE PRINTER

Plus all the accoutrements.
And I'd have to transport it from my hotel room, set it up, break it down, and tote it back EVERY DAMN DAY OF THE CONVENTION
Had to do this because security at the cons was a JOKE.  Even with the locking cages, you'd get the security guys cutting locks off to get at valuables.
Even today at cons, we cover our cages and obfuscate what's stowed in them.
And after a $3000 theft one year, NOBODY...EVER...leaves laptops anymore.

 

8 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

And nothing is worse than an out-of-fashion case, especially when standard components haven't changed in about 15 years. Chrome something, dammit!

 

 

Not talking about LED crap.

I'm talking about wasting time, development and money, trying to work AROUND the shortcomings of what is a decades-old case.

The aforementioned mounting of a 120 mm radiator into a bracket to use an 80mm fan.
Hell, of delivering a 120mm AIO setup for the CPU, which isn't enough to keep the component cool.
Sticking in perfectly acceptable high end cards, and completely choking off their air supply because the fans are only a couple mm from the unvented case bottom.
 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hyperstrike

[Shenanigunner]

Oh, I know what laptops are supposed to be for. I've had three. All acquired for some immediate purpose — once, to go manage a convention — and every one essentially rusted away on a shelf after that, not usable the next time I needed one.

 

That everyone uses them as a primary system, even if it hardly ever leaves the desk or kitchen table, just boggles me. But then, I have no physical issues after 40+ years of using a computer long hours daily, either; I think people with neck and back problems from laptopping are already common in ortho offices.

[Hyperstrike]

3 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

Oh, I know what laptops are supposed to be for. I've had three. All acquired for some immediate purpose — once, to go manage a convention — and every one essentially rusted away on a shelf after that, not usable the next time I needed one.

 

That everyone uses them as a primary system, even if it hardly ever leaves the desk or kitchen table, just boggles me. But then, I have no physical issues after 40+ years of using a computer long hours daily, either; I think people with neck and back problems from laptopping are already common in ortho offices.

16 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

And nothing is worse than an out-of-fashion case, especially when standard components haven't changed in about 15 years. Chrome something, dammit!

 

Okay, laptops aren't for you.

I get it.

Granted, they're a completely different class of machine today.
I bumped the memory in my mom's old, cheapie HP, and replaced a failing HD with SSDs.
The thing is desktop-level responsive now.

My Dell isn't anything special (especially these days)..
But I bought to a more high-end spec.  So it's lasted about 5 years.

And when my workstation blew it's BIOS off, I worked on it as my main box for the duration of the RMA process.

It wasn't "fun".  But I did it, and it worked fine.  Especially since I could hook it up to one of my desktop monitors for more screen real estate.
I could even run full-zone ship raids without problem.

[Shenanigunner]

Nah, it's more than that they aren't for me. I am a desk (workstation) worker; I simply can't do this on one screen, even a comparatively large one by laptop standards. I have a full wrap of 3 monitors and a fully ergonomic console setup, by sheer necessity. And I have almost zero need to drag all this with me; there are better ways to manage my connectivity etc. when I am at remote locations.

 

My contention is that some very large number of people who buy laptops would be much better off with a decent desktop; for all the plans to be able to flit around Earth working and communicating away, many never move the slab except to dust under it. (See the line about the tile kitchen floor in When Harry Met Sally.)

 

And even those who actually put the transportability of a laptop to good use, but then spend 6+ hours a day using it, are doing so with absolutely terrible ergonomics and all the lifetime health consequences thereof... things we solved for desk systems 30 years ago. (By the way, the standing or convertible desk was invented in 1920. Just sayin'.)

 

Laptops are expensive, short-lived, un-upgradeable, efficient only for single-small-screen workers and ergonomically awful. They should be used by those who need the very specific purpose of a readily portable workstation. But  they're something like 95% of all computers sold... which is a crime. At a minimum, those who really work with a computer all day and are convinced/correct that having a laptop is necessary should use a docking station and ergonomic console for their primary workstation.

 

But hey, we were bitching about how Alienware useta be the bring-a-nuke-to-a-gunfight gaming systems. 🙂

[Bill Z Bubba]

I worked at Dell back in 97-2000. The business lines have always treated me quite well over the years. Matter of fact, I just swapped out an old HDD with an SSD on an Optiplex 9020 small form factor that's been my primary workstation for a couple years now and the thing has gone back to being surprisingly quick on the draw and capable. The precision T7600 I was gifted from a prior job has been nothing but perfectly stable the entire time I've owned it. Even took my 1080 from my gaming rig and slapped it into the server when my gamer's board fried on me. Wasn't great, of course, but it worked.

 

When it was time for me to move last year, I knew I needed a laptop for the trip and knew I had no intentions of ever gaming on one, so a used Dell Latitude was picked up on the fly. Again, zero issues.

 

Alienware was always overpriced garbage. Became worse after Dell bought them out, agreed.

 

Point to all this is that the company I worked for from 2006-2011 only used Dell Optiplexes. The next job use Dell thin clients for everyone in the office with dual Dell 24" flat panels. It was only my last job where I started to see Lenovos in heavy usage and quite frankly those had some design choices that I found wanting.

 

Now, will I be buying a Dell/Alienware for my next gaming rig? Hell no. But I also won't be buying an HP or any other big named prebuilt. There's the business world and the personal world. Rue the day the two meet.