Azrael Tank Ratings.

[Golden Azrael]

So, you want to be a TANK.  But which one?  I could tell you.  But I don't know 'you.'  The following list has been 'shamelessly' cropped from 'you know who's' thread.

 

Tanker Armor Rankings IMO  (Not 'my' opinion, but taken with regards, to that other authorative 'Tank Build' thread.)

 

1. Invulnerability

1.* Stone Armor (QoL reasons)

2. Shield Defense

3. Dark Armor

4. Willpower

5. Ice Armor

6. Super Reflexes

7. Radiation Armor

8. Electric Armor

9. Fiery Aura.

 

This top ten.  I'd aggree with or disagree with depending on which tank I was playing.  They could all be Number 1.

 

Having played all of them, I'll give you my cursory overview.

 

1.  Stone Amour.  Old School Granite hard tank.  Even in Non-Granite form!

 

I rolled Stone/Stone.  It's secret?  Being well endowed with defence in the 3 'most' damage types.   S*L.  Energy.  Psi.  You like the sound of that?  I do.  Arachnos don't.  You get Dull Pain.  A damage tick.  A slow.

 

With Stone melee you get two AoE attacks that deal damage.  ...and knockdown.  Which means you can keep the mobs on their Az'.

 

This is an old school tanker's dream.  And since the Stone Armour 'patch' you can now run 'non-Granite' with ease without walking through treacle.

 

Well 'ard.  'Pass us a neural grenade, 'arry.  This one looks like a bit of an 'ard case.'

 

Strengths.  Old School Tank.  The holy trinity of damage is covered with Defence capped(!) S*L, Energy and Psi.

Weakness.  S*L Resist.

 

2.  Invulerability.  A great beginner's tank.

 

Pair this with anything.  Though Super Strength and Energy Melee would be my picks!  A good 'beginners' tank due to Dull Pain MOAR and bigger heal tick button, Invincibility giving you plus to hit and defence per mob bonus.  You can easily reach the S&L cap and exceed it.  An old school, classic tank which does exactly what it says on the tin.

 

If you don't like Rage Crash, you don't HAVE to take Rage.  Later on, fit IO procs to boost SS's mediocre (waiting on a HC update) non-Rage damage.  With Handclap (under-rated) you can fit knockdown and a dam proc and a force feedback to make this power an interesting proposition AND pair it with Super Stomp for a double Buashakka.

 

If you really want an outstanding 'Lights OUT' single target tank.  Invul' Energy is eye wateringly 'Good Night Vienna.'  All those stubborn to kill Warwolves and Vamps?  Hit them with ET, Total Focus and it's KO time.  The AoE and Cone also thin the mob(s) with buttery smoothness.  Relentless tanking here.  You want to hit like a truck?  Invul/Energy is the Mother Trucker!

 

Should be the answer to all those 'This is my 1st time as Tanker' posts which wonder what they should roll 1st.

 

Strengths.  Scaling Defence and To Hit Toggle called 'Invinciblilty.'  You surround yourself with mobs.  You get harder to hit.  They are easier to hit!

Weakness.  Psi hole.  Can you fill it?

 

3.  Shield Defence.  The Advanced Tank with Lightning Fast MOB decimation.

 

This is an advanced tank.  Not one I'd suggest for a beginning.  There's no heal.  No end recovery.  There's lots(!) of toggles.

 

BUT.  The 1st two armour give you in a few levels what Reflexes will take much longer to give you.  It isn't that long before you have enough AOE, Range AND Melee defence to breeze through the 1st twenty levels.

 

Then you get the Damage bonus toggles.  Resistance to debuff 'Click.'  And then the crowning glory.  Shield Charge.  Then?  It's a world of hurt for mobs IF you pick the right primary to go with it.

 

So.  What attacks would you go with Azrael (seeing as you're shooting yer mouth off about tanks?)  Elec Melee on a Tank.  You get Lightning Rod which stacks with Shield Charge to leave a mob reeling.  And then you have Thunderstrike.  Put a ForceFeedback in that...?  Mobs spend alot of time on their backside with mine.  You could also try Martial Arts if you want better single target KER-POW!  And one trick with this, is to pad the build out with...Fighting Pool's Cross Strike and Superjump's Teleport Spring Attack.  Add that to Shield Charge, Dragon's Tail, that's four AoE.  Plus if you get Mighty from Incarnate Judgement?  Mobs spend ALOT of time on the ground.  What's left?   Has a slither of health and gets KERRRRRR-POWED!!!!  Another recent choice to come to my attention is Dark Melee.  Think about it.  All that -to hit with Shield's Defence?  You da Guv'nor.

 

Strengths.  1st two Tier Armour powers give you Melee, Range and AoE!  Only Reflexes can beat that!  Shield CHARGE(!) = Mob DeVaStAtIoN.

Weakness.  Toggles.  MoAR Toggles.  The end drain adds up.  No Heal.  No stamina return.  Resistant numbers are weak.  So-so Tier 9.

 

4  Dark Armour.  Mulberry Rules.  This is the Thinking Tank.

 

This is the thinking person's Tank Armour set.

 

It's biggest problem is end.  One the penny drops to put in 'Theft of Essence' unique that works off Dark Regeneration's heal?  You're golden.  That and putting double end reduction SOs in all powers over ten and at least one in all Dark Melee attacks below ten.  As for toggles.  At least one SO end red!

 

I put damage procs in taunt, dark regen...

 

Naturally, I wanted to team this Armour set up with?  Dark Melee.  -To hit.   Damage in BUILD UP and Consumption and before long, you're stacking armour procs with attack procs.  Sands of Mu rains floating numbers on a mob.

 

IF there is one tank that shines much brighter because of the 'radiating' chances to AOEs for tanks?  It seems to be Dark Armour and Dark Melee for me.

 

Mobs like Arty take rumble in the jungle style beating with this tank as numbers spike, proc, float and stack with an intriguing malaise of doom.  When you've taken your training Tank wheels off with Invul/SS?  And the 'other' tanks?  This is absorbing and rewarding.

 

Strengths.  Unusual damage mitigation.  (eg. Confuse toggle.)  Damage DoT tick.  Dark Regen'.  -To hit from complementary Melee set.  

Weakness.  Endurance nightmare.  End heavy set.  Toggle heavy.  Dark Regen' sucks end.  But you can fix all of that...

 

5.  Willpower.  The Heals a lot...but with caveats.

 

This?  Can laugh mobs.  (But not Malta Sappers?)  Due to the insane amount of heal and regen?  It's high rated and I can see why.  But I only think it's really good when it gets a build.  To take it to the 'next level.'  You'll probably want to take Tough on this to absorb the alpha somewhat.  I paired mine with Stone Melee to re-forge the one I rolled on live.  

 

At Level 50 and with incarnates?  Very robust.  It's a passive tank.  No tik of damage.  But WP is popular.  I stripped my build for parts.  The only tank I chose to do so.   But I'll just fill it with SOs.  And it can be enjoyed like so.

 

In my heart of hearts.  I prefer the more 'regeneeeeee' tanks with buttons that decide with your brain power...WHEN you need to shield absorbs/armour attacks to match the threat or peak battle time you're experiencing.  That's why I like Regen on my Scrapper.  I get to choose.  On my WP tank, on the way up, I could come a cropper 'waiting' for WP to kick in.  When you're built out for WP and defence capped with high resists?  This is less of an issue as WP weaves it's web of heal.

 

Strengths.  Insane healing.  You need to be surrounded by mobs.  

Weakness.  It's passive.  Toggle heavy.  Do you need Tough to survive the alpha to get your healing to kick in?  

 

6. Ice Amour.  Classic tank that does things differently.  Pure Class.  Beginner or Advanced. The play rewards.  So satisfying.

 

If I was doing my desert island disks Tank?  This is the one Tank I'd probably want to take with me.

 

You get Dull Pain.  Defence stacking.  Damage Tik.  End return.  You can't kill me Alpha Strike God Absorb Power.  It's called 'Hibernate.'

 

The only downside is a lack of resist.  So, you'll have to take Tough.  And prob' build in some Resistance with a build out.

 

Not a lot of damage though?

 

NOT so fast, Luthor!  We Ice tankers are in the whole sale damage game.  We're all about 'teh' tick over time, the DoT and the AoE.  

 

You can choose Musculature incarnate pick.  Interface tick pick.  And?  ASSAULT RIGHT SIDE TIER 4 for double hit procs.

 

And you realise Ice had that Homecoming Dev' brew powers pass, right?

 

All of a sudden, 'Where did the mobs go to?'  They 'melted' away....

 

Absorbing.  (I almost said Engorging.  I guess I really like Ice Tank...)   Sure the single targets are a bit 'meh.'  Ice Sword.  Is 'ok.#    I like the Ice Fists.  I don't like Greater Ice Sword ('Great' it is not.)  But for that classic 'we do thinks differently' around here, classy, quintessential 'old school' Tank feel?  This is the one (well, along with Stone Armour.)  

 

In case it wasn't clear.  Yeah.  I took Ice Melee with this.  And did I mention you can make the ice mat perma to keep mobs just falling over all the time?  There are differing forms of mitigation, right?  And ice has boat loads of them.  rg. Slow.  (Slow is one of the greatest debuffs in the CoH game.)  Pull mobs to corner.  Bunches up.  Ice Mat.  Though you could pair Ice Armour with any melee and get good mileage.  If you held me at gun point?  I'd say this was my favourite tank.

 

One thing you have to watch on Ice (and Fire armour) Tanks is the debuff of your regen'.  With high octane Arachnos settings?  They'll debuff your regen drive chain to crawl.  Then you'll probably need your 'Mercy ME!' Ice Cube God Absorb Power.  (Hibernate.)  Top Tip?  Fit this with SLOW DEBUFF RESISTANCE!!!

 

Strengths.  Defence.  Stamina.  Heal.  Damage Tick.  God Absorb (Hibernate.)  Slow debuff.  Ice Melee gives you immutable Ice Mat.

Weakness.  Resist for S*L needs attention through the IO build out.  It's a Regen set.  A weakness to being 'slow' debuffed.

 

7.  Super Reflexes.  Capped by L20s.  Nuff said?

So you can get Melee, AoE and Range capped by your 20s?

 

Insane?  Right?  (*Hands you the pen and paper to sign up straight away.)

 

But there's no passive tick of damage.  No heal.  (You do get a very good resist power which kicks in around...)  No stamina return.  *UNLESS you count the tier 9 'God' power which takes forever to recharge and tries to get you killed when it blows out.

 

But it was the one armour set (along with Ice) that I didn't get to do before Live CoH got canned.

 

Pair it with Street Justice for some AoE combo stacking.  And it's a nasty street fighter tank.  You like dat?  You wanna be Bat Man?  Bat-Girl (who doesn't want to be Bat Girl...?)

Reflexes will allow you to just focus on being untouchable whilst you deliver 'The Smackdown.'

 

Strengths.  Defence capped for all positions.  Resistance that kicks in as you lose health.  A pocket hasten!

Weakness.  It's a passive set.  No damage tick.  No heal.  No stamina return.  No buttons to press outside of 'punitive' Tier 9 which can get you killed...

 

8.  Radiation Armour.  Regen style set.  Absorbs.  Insane Tier 9 res plus Damage.  You gotta try this.

 

I recently did Radiation Armour on a Tank follow my test on a Brute.  (Wash your mouth out, Azrael, we don't do 'Brute' talk on dis 'ere Tank Forum....)

 

Absorb.  Heal.  Boat loads of end recovery.  Probably the best Tier 9 outside of Ice Armour.  With it's uber resistance and insane damage boost.

 

What are you waiting for?  Roll one now.   Pair it with ANY Melee attacks.  (Fire reoommended.)

 

You'll turn Mobs to butter.  You have a damage Tick.  You get MOAR heal.  MOAR STAMINA.

 

Haven't you rolled it yet?

 

I paired mine with Broad Sword.  Substantial Def' to stack with Radiation's resistance...  Try it.  I did.  Slash and burn.  or BURN and Slash.  

 

Radiation armour.  The future.

 

Strengths.  Heal.  Stamina.  Absorb.  Damage Tick.  Godly Tier 9 which boosts Resistance and Damage!

Weakness.  It's an active armour set.  You have to keep an eye on that absorb and heal button.

 

9.  Elec Armour.  Psi.  Elec Emperor.  Pocket Regen.  Sign me up.

 

Why is it no.8.  I don't know.  I didn't pick this particular order of tanks.  Someone else did.  *Points finger to the other thread.

 

But Elec' Armour is good.  Very good.  It has Psi.  It has Elec.  Sappers?  Who dey?  You look at them before you deliver 'The Gift!'  Psi?  That ticks, Arachnos.

 

So, what did you pair it with?  War Mace.

 

AMEN.

 

This is like a pocket rocket Regen set.   With a single button.  Plus you 'Power Sink' which can drain the life out of mobs to the point that their arms get really heavy and they stand and stare at you.

 

Then?  It's your turn.  With War Mace.  Crowd Control.  Shatter.  

 

Wince.  That's going to hurt in the morning son.  Probably my 2nd favourite tank!!!!!!!!  DIE COUNCIL MOBS, DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!  (*Brian Blessed Voice.)

 

Strengths.  Heal button is a pocket Regen Tank.  Elec sap immunity.  Robust Psi Resist.  Lightning Reflexes Pocket Hasten.  Power Sink to leave mobs with their end around their ankles.

Weakness.  S*L resist numbers are mediocre.

 

10.  Fiery Armour.  Burn, BURN everything 'regen' set.

 

Another regen style armour (along with ice, fire, rad, bio...)   It burns.  Everything.  Things melt.  No knockback protection.  You take Acrobatics or fit a SteadFast UNIQUE IO.  

 

What did I pair it with?  Fire, ofc.  I'd done Fire/SS Tank.  Which is sound when you proc SS for damage.  But the Fire Melee AoE?  IS hard to resist as it stacks with your Fire Armour.  It's relentlessly burny.

 

Burn mat.  Burn tick.  AoE.  AoE.  AoE.  DoT.  DoT.  DoT.

 

Go away and roll one.  It does what it says on the tin.

 

Caveat.  If a mob kills your regen drive chain?  You're dead.  I've had Carnie mobs just throw me out the mission and all the way over to the HP.  Humiliating.

 

Answer.  Slow Resistance.  Try Ageless Radial Tier 4.  DON'T leave home without it...or the Arachnos will make sure you never go home.  Again.  Ever.

 

Strength.  You can burn everything.  AoEs.  DoTs.

Weakness.  No Knock Down protection.  Regen' style drive chain leaves you vulnerable to Slow Debuffs.  And eventual death.

 

10.  Bio.  Compelling.  Regen.  Again.

 

Why is Bio at number 10?  It's not.  You're seeing things.

 

This has absorbs.  End.  Heal.  Insane Tier 9 (you have to try it for yourself.  I won't explain it.  It's that good.)   Aborbs.  Tick of Damage.

 

Thoroughly modern Armour set for Tanks.  It's the future.

 

(Along with Radiation, ofc.  Which it is kind of similar to in design.)

 

I paired BIO with?  SPINES!  Spine Burst is great AoE decimation.  Spines is a very compelling melee set.  Addictive.  ROLL THIS.  NOW!  Suck it and see.  Watch for the Qills, though.  (Which stacks with Bio's tick.)

 

Strengths.  Toggle your armour to have MOAR Res', Stamina or Damage.  Heal.  Stamina.  Absorbs.  A fantastic Tier 9.  You liked Rad?  You'll love this.

Weakness.  Active tank.  Have to keep an eye on those Absorbs.  When that's gone...you don't have that many Hit Points.

 

 

Conclusion.

 

Tanks.  Better since the Tank patch.  They now are truly gods.  The radial impact off their AOE attacks?  Game changing.  But they now pack a substantial damage punch along that radiating power.  Ergo.  You are robust dealers of wholesale damage over time.  Because you're a 'god' you're also very safe.  So much so, even Farmers have taken notice.  The synergy of their attacks and armour are thus Re-Forged anew.  I rolled ten tanks in a row.  (Not sure that's healthy...)

 

 

Top Tank TIP!

 

You would do well to put RESIST to SLOWS in your build.

 

eg. Winter's Gift (20%) to start with.  Avalanche.  And the other 'cold' style expensive sets.  AND.  Ageless Radial T4.  All this adds up.

 

Then, you can go into a +4x8 Arachnos mob mission and....it's going down.

 

Top Tank TIP no.2!

 

You do damage WHOLESALE!  ie.  Over time.  AND?  WIDE.  You can self farm!  -1x4 or -1x8 in the Hollows.  Pop the odd luck.  And the Trolls won't know who hit them.  By the time you hit your 20s, 30s, 40s, that -1 will turn into +0, +1, +2...

 

So, what flavour of Tank ARE YOU?

 

My advice?  Roll all of these.  And start taking them to L10.  One of these you will(!) take to L50.

 

 

Azrael.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Golden Azrael
MOAR DETAIL! Colours.

[Sovera]

Fire Armor has Consume which protects against sapping (the sucking of the blue bar), though it does not protect from -recovery (the stopping of the blue bar filling up). Makes Carnies fine, but not Super Stunner's ressurection.

 

Consume does need to be used before being sapped, but the sapping prevention buff lasts for two minutes (and is a 98% protection if Consume is slotted) and recharges in one minute (if slotted).

[Golden Azrael]

18 hours ago, Sovera said:

Fire Armor has Consume which protects against sapping (the sucking of the blue bar), though it does not protect from -recovery (the stopping of the blue bar filling up). Makes Carnies fine, but not Super Stunner's ressurection.

 

Consume does need to be used before being sapped, but the sapping prevention buff lasts for two minutes (and is a 98% protection if Consume is slotted) and recharges in one minute (if slotted).

 

Now, I didn't know that.  Noted.  And.  Thank you.

 

'Learned something new.' TM.

 

I'll test that out on my Fire/Fire Tank. 

 

If I had to pick my Top 3 tanks?  I'd go Ice/Stone at joint number 1.  Second.  Elec Armour.  Third.  Invulerability.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Infinitum]

I go back and forth on the willpower, ice , and SR cluster. Those are all very close, but i think QoL between them is what makes that list accurate 

[Golden Azrael]

13 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I go back and forth on the willpower, ice , and SR cluster. Those are all very close, but i think QoL between them is what makes that list accurate 

 

If you haven't read Infinitum's excellent build guides you owe it to yourself to go and have a look.  Then...build one!

 

Hopefully, this 'Beginner's Guide' to Tank Armours 'ice cream flavour' assessment of Tanks will have newcomers to Tanking willing to try all the flavours and make up their own mind.

 

Old School?  New School?  Passive (no button pressing)?  Active(MOAR button pressing)?  Beginner?  Advanced?  Which Tank are you?

 

Azrael.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

If you haven't read Infinitum's excellent build guides you owe it to yourself to go and have a look.  Then...build one!

 

Hopefully, this 'Beginner's Guide' to Tank Armours 'ice cream flavour' assessment of Tanks will have newcomers to Tanking willing to try all the flavours and make up their own mind.

 

Old School?  New School?  Passive (no button pressing)?  Active(MOAR button pressing)?  Beginner?  Advanced?  Which Tank are you?

 

Azrael.

 

Now that's a Sell.  😀

[JasperStone]

One of my mains is an Ice/Ice/Ice tanker.

 

I agree with everything you stated.

 

Thank you.

[Golden Azrael]

3 hours ago, JasperStone said:

One of my mains is an Ice/Ice/Ice tanker.

 

I agree with everything you stated.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way about Ice Tanks.  Mobs absolutely hate me for some reason...and chase after me with ferocity.

 

I went Ice/Ice/Ice all the way.  

 

Took the Incarnate Ice Judgement power too.  Radial Tier 4 with the Hold, I think.  

 

I took Ageless Left.  But I think that was a mis-step.  I'd now go Radial Ageless to resist slow debuffs against my 'Regen' drive chain.  I will fix that at some point.

 

I didn't take the 'ice slow' Interface power.  I may go back and take that.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Erratic1]

On 6/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, Golden Azrael said:

1.  Stone Amour.  Old School Granite hard tank.  Even in Non-Granite form!

Strengths.  Old School Tank.  The holy trinity of damage is covered with Defence capped(!) S*L, Energy and Psi.

Weakness.  S*L Resist.

 

*Glances at the S/L Resists on his Stone Armor brute and is confused*

 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, Golden Azrael said:

 

9.  Elec Armour.  Psi.  Elec Emperor.  Pocket Regen.  Sign me up.

Strengths.  Heal button is a pocket Regen Tank.  Elec sap immunity.  Robust Psi Resist.  Power Sink to leave mobs with their end around their ankles.

Weakness.  S*L resist numbers are mediocre.

 

I was going to object to the claim Electric Armor has mediocre S/L resist number, then noticed my Elec/Rad tanker's S/L resists are only 89.88% and thought, "Maybe he means for a Tanker they are mediocre...like, not 115% or higher?" I would have thought Toxic would be listed as the weakness for Electric Armor.

[Sovera]

Yeah, Stone Armor's weakness is rather E/N, though on a tanker we can still pump those upwards of 60%.

[Hjarki]

The primary reason for a Tanker specifically is to tank the AV/GM at the end. Endless waves of minions are something a decent Scrapper can tank just fine because it's primarily about debuffs and defenses rather than being able to take a beating. In most cases, your secondary can handle the bulk of "what about the hordes?" problems.

 

In terms of taking that beating, S/L/E resists are absolutely critical. F/T are mainly about reducing environmental damage and can generally be replaced by enough health regen. C/N/P are almost entirely about the debuffs they carry. Perhaps the biggest flaw I see in many players' estimation of armor sets for Tankers is ignoring 'Energy holes' - by which I mean all those armor sets without hard-capped Energy resist. I don't care how much Defense you have, you're eventually going to get hit with that massive Energy attack and be in deep trouble unless you can reduce it.

 

Endurance management is also a critical issue. I always build with a no-incarnates/no-inspirations/no-temporary philosophy, so any problems with endurance need to be solved in the actual power sets. Secondaries such as Savage, Staff and Energy can help solve this problem, but this constrains your builds quite a bit.

 

My top four (in no particular order):

• Stone. Stone has two modes. The first is a fairly comprehensive defense-based set with nice damage additions perfectly suited for those waves of minions. The second is the nearly indestructible Granite Armor. Ultimately, this tends to make Stone the clear leader for the tanking purist who just wants to be able to withstand any challenge.
• Radiation. The near perfect arrangement of resists (high S/L/E, decent F/T, 'holes' to C/N/P) coupled with recharge bonuses, an 'ultimate' nuke and even -hit/-regen debuffs puts this ahead of the other resist-based sets.
• Super Reflexes. The ability to run Granite-level Resist/Defense without Granite drawbacks (or, sadly, Granite health) makes this a strong choice for most of the game. While there are some rare circumstances where the defenses are completely worthless and it's challenging to build without any Resist or offensive abilities, Super Reflexs is a strong choice against 99% of what you'll face.
• Bio. Bio is not a particularly good 'tanking' set as outlined above. You're only going to be hard-capped against S/L and most of your soft-caps will be barely staggering across the finish line rather than heading towards Incarnate levels. Even in Defensive mode, you're generally going to be weaker than the very similar Willpower. However, the team-centric nature of Bio's debuffs means that even if you're not going to be all that effective in certain rare circumstances, you're going to bring more to the table in almost every other circumstance. That being said, Bio is probably a better choice for a Scrapper.

The other armor sets tend to fall into "similar to, but not as good as" in comparison to one of the sets above.

[Golden Azrael]

16 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

*Glances at the S/L Resists on his Stone Armor brute and is confused*

 

 

 

I was going to object to the claim Electric Armor has mediocre S/L resist number, then noticed my Elec/Rad tanker's S/L resists are only 89.88% and thought, "Maybe he means for a Tanker they are mediocre...like, not 115% or higher?" I would have thought Toxic would be listed as the weakness for Electric Armor.

 

Are we talking 'builds' or levelling up with SO out of the box stuff?

 

This being a 'starter guide' (for the thread title doesn't explicitly say that) for Beginner Tanks who are wondering what to roll and what the broad pros and cons are.  S*L is mediocre.  But you get sound Energy and Psi resists (no sap!) to compensate.  

 

Needless to say, compared to Invulnerability which is higher earlier with S*L, I had to take Tough on Electric armour.  (Standard advice from Live forums.)  If I take off my Tough toggle on my Elec Armour?  Drops to 83% S*L.  That's with a build out!

 

Toxic is a weakness on lots of stuff.  It's up there with Psi.  But S*L resist for the most common damage type for me, is far more notable for a Beginner choosing his / her 1st Tank.

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

15 hours ago, Sovera said:

Yeah, Stone Armor's weakness is rather E/N, though on a tanker we can still pump those upwards of 60%.

 

Energy, Negative and Psi 'Resists' are poor, below mediocre on my 'built out' Tank.

 

On my 'non-granite' Stone Tank.  I'm at 53% Resist for S*L.  That's on a build out!  😮  For the most common damage type.  I consider that my main concern.  Without Tough it drops to a very poor 28.75% for S*L.  You what? 😮

 

I consider this Stone Armour's weakness.  However, defence for S*L/En/Psi can cover you for those poor resists (it's a deliberate dev' trade off that makes this debate on which tank is best so fun...) until you get hit.  Then your Dull Pain/Heal Toggle compensate.

 

Caveats.  'Out of the Box' NON-BUILT Tanks.  Who aint doing ITFs and post-50s incarnate UBER AV stuff.  In casual play, 1-50, my Stone/Stone tank was untroubled and nothing short of sensational from an armour point of view.  (Dealing damage was a bit grindy until I took it to the next level probably L40+ and then adding the build out.)

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

16 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

*Glances at the S/L Resists on his Stone Armor brute and is confused*

 

 

See my other posts.  My Tank has S*L Resists at 28% and that's with a build out.  (Tough toggle turned off for that.)

 

He said, 'Brute'!  We don't like dat word around 'ere on Tank forums.

HE'S a WITCH!  BURN HIM!

 

Azrael.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Are we talking 'builds' or levelling up with SO out of the box stuff?

 

This being a 'starter guide' (for the thread title doesn't explicitly say that) for Beginner Tanks who are wondering what to roll and what the broad pros and cons are.  S*L is mediocre.  But you get sound Energy and Psi resists (no sap!) to compensate.  

 

Electric Armor's Charged Armor gives 35% resistance to Smash/Lethal. Invulnerability hits 40% resistance to Smash/Lethal via Temporary Invulnerability and Resist Physical Damage.  So Invulnerability is ahead by only 5% if you (a) take two power at low level and (b) maintain twice the number of slots in them when you probably hardest pressed to do so because powers and slots are least plentiful at low level. To maintain that lead it needs to spend twice the number of slots. Put one extra slot in Charged Armor and give it two SOs and you're at 52.4% Smash/Lethal resistance. Put one extra slot in Temporary Invulnerability and give it two SOs and combined with Resist Physical Damage you're at 54.91% Smash/Lethal resistance. I am not sure how 52.4% is mediocre while 54.91% is worthy of respect.

 

2 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Needless to say, compared to Invulnerability which is higher earlier with S*L, I had to take Tough on Electric armour.  (Standard advice from Live forums.)  If I take off my Tough toggle on my Elec Armour?  Drops to 83% S*L.  That's with a build out!

 

Toxic is a weakness on lots of stuff.  It's up there with Psi.  But S*L resist for the most common damage type for me, is far more notable for a Beginner choosing his / her 1st Tank.

 

Azrael.

 

I am not sure any resistance based Tanker needs to take Tough. My first pass on my current Radiation/Claws, which only has base 30% S/L resist via Alpha Barrier, was over 90% S/L resist  value. If I can get there with Alpha Barrier, Charged Armor can get there.

[Erratic1]

14 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

See my other posts.  My Tank has S*L Resists at 28% and that's with a build out.  (Tough toggle turned off for that.)

 

He said, 'Brute'!  We don't like dat word around 'ere on Tank forums.

HE'S a WITCH!  BURN HIM!

 

Azrael.

 

The point was my Brute, who works with SCRAPPER level numeric values, gets to respectable S/L resistance values on what is ostensibly a Defense armor set. If a Brute can get there a Tanker should have no problem.

[Sovera]

16 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Energy, Negative and Psi 'Resists' are poor, below mediocre on my 'built out' Tank.

 

On my 'non-granite' Stone Tank.  I'm at 53% Resist for S*L.  That's on a build out!  😮  For the most common damage type.  I consider that my main concern.  Without Tough it drops to a very poor 28.75% for S*L.  You what? 😮

 

I consider this Stone Armour's weakness.  However, defence for S*L/En/Psi can cover you for those poor resists (it's a deliberate dev' trade off that makes this debate on which tank is best so fun...) until you get hit.  Then your Dull Pain/Heal Toggle compensate.

 

Caveats.  'Out of the Box' NON-BUILT Tanks.  Who aint doing ITFs and post-50s incarnate UBER AV stuff.  In casual play, 1-50, my Stone/Stone tank was untroubled and nothing short of sensational from an armour point of view.  (Dealing damage was a bit grindy until I took it to the next level probably L40+ and then adding the build out.)

 

Azrael.

 

 

Every gimmick in the book thrown at it.

 

 

Another 6.7% for a second ATO stack puts the resistances at 76-77%. 5% from Barrier puts them at 81-82%. A third stack (not reliable to get three stacks) puts them at 86-87%.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(3), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def(5)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Cobra Strike -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(13), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(15), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Hct-Dam%(17)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(23), Pnc-Heal(25), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(19), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- ShlWal-Def/Rchg(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), PrfShf-End%(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), PrfShf-EndMod(33)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Crane Kick -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), TchofDth-Dam%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36)
Level 18: Stone Skin -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(42), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(43), TtnCtn-ResDam(43)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Brimstone Armor -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(27)
Level 28: Focus Chi -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--Build%(40)
Level 30: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 32: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(42), Rct-ResDam%(49)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(46), AdjTrg-Rchg(46)
Level 38: Granite Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(47), TtnCtn-ResDam(47), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), GldArm-3defTpProc(48), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(49)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

 

A more 'normal' build:

 

 

Same as before with the maths, but always minimum 70% with one stack. Stone as a tanker has almost no flaws and without even going into granite. Brutes always have an E/N hole though, the best I can do is about 40ish%.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(3), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(42), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), GldStr-%Dam(43), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-Def(9), TtnCtn-EndRdx/Rchg(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(11), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(11), TtnCtn-ResDam(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(13), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(15), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GldStr-%Dam(17)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(19), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(23), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(27), Rct-ResDam%(29)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- ShlWal-Def/Rchg(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), PrfShf-End%(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 18: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(45)
Level 20: Total Focus -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Brimstone Armor -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 28: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- HO:Nucle(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(39), PrfZng-Dam%(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(46), TchofDth-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(47), TtnCtn-ResDam(47), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), GldArm-3defTpProc(48), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(49), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(49), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(50), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7)
Level 1: Energy Focus
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

[KaizenSoze]

Tagging @Linea

 

He builds 801 tanks and I am sure he has opinions.

 

I use one of his SR/DM builds that is pretty indestructible.

 

 

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

 

Every gimmick in the book thrown at it.

 

 

Another 6.7% for a second ATO stack puts the resistances at 76-77%. 5% from Barrier puts them at 81-82%. A third stack (not reliable to get three stacks) puts them at 86-87%.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(3), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def(5)
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Cobra Strike -- TchofDth-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(13), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(15), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Hct-Dam%(17)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(23), Pnc-Heal(25), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(19), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- ShlWal-Def/Rchg(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), PrfShf-End%(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), PrfShf-EndMod(33)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Crane Kick -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), TchofDth-Dam%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36)
Level 18: Stone Skin -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(42), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(43), TtnCtn-ResDam(43)
Level 20: Dragon's Tail -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(37), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Brimstone Armor -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(27)
Level 28: Focus Chi -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(40), GssSynFr--Build%(40)
Level 30: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 32: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(42), Rct-ResDam%(49)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(46), AdjTrg-Rchg(46)
Level 38: Granite Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(47), TtnCtn-ResDam(47), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), GldArm-3defTpProc(48), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(49)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

 

A more 'normal' build:

 

 

Same as before with the maths, but always minimum 70% with one stack. Stone as a tanker has almost no flaws and without even going into granite. Brutes always have an E/N hole though, the best I can do is about 40ish%.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(3), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(42), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), GldStr-%Dam(43), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-Def(9), TtnCtn-EndRdx/Rchg(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(11), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(11), TtnCtn-ResDam(13)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(13), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(15), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GldStr-%Dam(17)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(19), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(21), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(23), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(27), Rct-ResDam%(29)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- ShlWal-Def/Rchg(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), PrfShf-End%(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 18: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(45)
Level 20: Total Focus -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 24: Evasive Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Brimstone Armor -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 28: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Minerals -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- HO:Nucle(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(39), PrfZng-Dam%(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(45), GldStr-%Dam(46), TchofDth-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(47), TtnCtn-ResDam(47), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), GldArm-3defTpProc(48), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(49), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(49), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(50), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7)
Level 1: Energy Focus
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 22: Afterburner
------------

 

 

Another caveat.  This thread is aimed at Starter and Levelling SO Tanks not 'build outs' whether they they be 'normal' or otherwise.  (Though having a 'normal' build, whatever that is...still only sees me at 28% S*L.)  'Out of the Box', S*L on Stone Armour is very skimpy.   But I can live with that because of the astronomically good S*L, Energy an Psi defence values and how far you can push them even with an SO build.  It did really well from the recent 'Design Pass' from the HC Dev' Team.

 

Another caveat.  I take every power from the Primary and 2ndaries for all my Tanks.  I don't 'hack' my builds (or lose several powers from the Primary and Secondary' sets) to 'make' the 'ultimate' values that I could.  I don't do that with my Tanks or any other ATs.

 

My Tanks?  They broadly level as SOs and I will insert the 'odd' unique eg. Panacea in Health and ATs much later on eg. 40s.

 

That said.

 

I welcome the discussion from you and others regardless.  'Which tank is better?'  Always throws up a wealth of insights from experience builders than beginner Tanks and veterans alike can learn from.

 

It's good for beginner Tanks to know the pros and cons of each Tank.  And, ultimately, how to circumvent them with good builds from fellow Tank veterans.

 

So if anyone wants to counter the pros and cons of my 'Starter Tank Top Ten' guide (which I've played 1-50 with SOs then built out...)

 

It's about trade offs.  But any beginner could roll any of the 'Top Ten' Tanks and be pretty sturdy.  They're all variations on a theme with design trade offs which any 'good build' can can largely circumvent and any 'at all costs' builds will turn you into a Tank that take an insane amount of punishment.  

 

Even out of the box you're a 'god.'  (Can't say that for 'B*****' who can get in over their heads.)

 

Play style of each Tank is more an emotive choice.

 

Azrael.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

I am not sure any resistance based Tanker needs to take Tough. My first pass on my current Radiation/Claws, which only has base 30% S/L resist via Alpha Barrier, was over 90% S/L resist  value. If I can get there with Alpha Barrier, Charged Armor can get there.

 

Barrier?  Build Outs?  (Edit.  Ah.  'Alpha Barrier.'  Not 'Barrier' incarnate.  But I'll let the rest of my post stand.  As there is a difference between SO 'Out of the Box' tanks and IO build outs and Incarnates.)

 

Any 'out of the box' starter AT Tanks doesn't have access to all that.  Just as 'any B****' can be 'built' with IO recipes to be 'better' than a poorly built Tank.

 

Any resistance based beginner Tank levelling with SOs would be well advised to take Fighting Pool with Tough's S*L Resistance.  And the positional/global defence from Weave to deflect any damage before it needs resisting.

 

Of course, any argument with the black arts of IOs and Incarnates post L50 are a different matter.  But as pre-issue 4 Veteran, I'm largely dismissive of IOs, Recipes, Incarnates and Build Outs.  Though, of course, I do use them.

 

And for any 'new to Tanker' or new to CoH and Tanker players.  They are still useful to the 'Which Tank is Best?' debate for those that want to take their 'god' to the next level.

 

Azrael.

 

Edit.  

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Erratic1]

Just now, Golden Azrael said:

 

Barrier?  Build Outs?

 

Alpha Barrier is the LEVEL ONE POWER in Radiation Armor.

 

 What could be more out of the box than that?

 

 

 

[Golden Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Alpha Barrier is the LEVEL ONE POWER in Radiation Armor.

 

 What could be more out of the box than that?

 

 

 

 

True.

 

But what is 'respectable' resists for the beginner Tank?  (They might need to know that...ofc.)

 

And by 'getting there?'  What you do mean?  SOs?  IO build outs?  3rd party tertiary power combinations?

 

What does the beginner Tank need to 'get there?'

 

Azrael.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

 

Another caveat.  This thread is aimed at Starter and Levelling SO Tanks not 'build outs' whether they they be 'normal' or otherwise.  (Though having a 'normal' build, whatever that is...still only sees me at 28% S*L.)  'Out of the Box', S*L on Stone Armour is very skimpy.   But I can live with that because of the astronomically good S*L, Energy an Psi defence values and how far you can push them even with an SO build.  It did really well from the recent 'Design Pass' from the HC Dev' Team.

 

Another caveat.  I take every power from the Primary and 2ndaries for all my Tanks.  They broadly level as SOs and I will insert the 'odd' unique eg. Panacea in Health and ATs much later on eg. 40s.

 

That said.

 

I welcome the discussion from you and others regardless.  'Which tank is better?'  Always throughs up a wealth of insights from experience builders than beginner Tanks and veterans alike can learn from.

 

Azrael.

 

 

It's a weird flex, but sure. If that's what you want to do.

 

Even lowbie characters can slot IOs though, some as low as level 10. By level 20 a Tanker can have... Let me check so I'm not guessing...

 

 

I would actually place slots on Whirling Hands first since it's the sole AoE, but just to say at level 20 it is a 33%, and safe to say that with 40% defense a low level Stone Armor is already mostly impervious to low level content.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-Def(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(13), GldArm-3defTpProc(19)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(15), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), MghoftheT-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- GntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), GntFis-Dmg/Rchg(7), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(11)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 10: Hover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Empty(A), Empty(19)
Level 18: Minerals -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Total Focus -- Empty(A)
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

 

Leveling with just SOs is some sort of iron man challenge thing.

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Any resistance based beginner Tank levelling with SOs would be well advised to take Fighting Pool with Tough's S*L Resistance.  And the positional/global defence from Weave to deflect any damage before it needs resisting.

 

 

If you are playing a Resist set Tanker you are not going to have much in the way of Defense powers, meaning Weave will be operating on its own. With a base value of 5% Defense (All), Weave when first taken will mostly be an endurance drain of minimal value, taking your chance of being hit by an even level opponent from 50% to 45%. In most circumstances that is not going to be a noticeable difference.

 

[Golden Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

 

It's a weird flex, but sure. If that's what you want to do.

 

Even lowbie characters can slot IOs though, some as low as level 10. By level 20 a Tanker can have... Let me check so I'm not guessing...

 

 

I would actually place slots on Whirling Hands first since it's the sole AoE, but just to say at level 20 it is a 33%, and safe to say that with 40% defense a low level Stone Armor is already mostly impervious to low level content.

 

  Hide contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- Rct-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-Def(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(13), GldArm-3defTpProc(19)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), MghoftheT-Rchg/Res%(15), MghoftheT-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), MghoftheT-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- GntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), GntFis-Dmg/Rchg(7), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), GntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(11)
Level 8: Rooted -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 10: Hover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 12: Crystal Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Empty(A), Empty(19)
Level 18: Minerals -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Total Focus -- Empty(A)
Level 22: [Empty]
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Energy Focus
------------

 

Leveling with just SOs is some sort of iron man challenge thing.

 

Well, true.  It's not 2003 anymore.  Ofc.  And we are on a 'P2W' server which has quality of life additions that were absent from the Live Server.  Would I walk those back?  That's a debate for another time.  But I have a friend who insists on levelling like it is.  He was in the CoH Beta.  So, I can kind of get where he's coming from.

 

Weird?  Well.  It was that way before IOs were introduced.  A bit of background to me.  I was late to IOs on live.  I didn't consider them mainstream or relevant.  'That's what the expert' players did.  But I did come to IOs in the last year of live.  And I've gotten better with them, builds and playing the market since Home Coming.  After you build ten tanks in a row.  You kind 'a' pick things up.  

 

I got into the game a few months after my friend who was in the Beta.  (The bugger didn't tell me he was in it.  He kept that secret...)

 

So now, I will use IOs (and have in all my Tank builds based on fellow luminaries expertise.)  But I played them as levelling SOs 1st.  And to me, that's the Tank in its purest form.

 

Azrael.