Help me find my Forever Scrapper Contest (part 1a of 4, Scrapper Primaries)!

[Erratic1]

If you have never played Claws, give it a go. Its fun. Somehow I never tried it live and have enjoyed it without reservation here on Homecoming.

 

I have to say I have been thinking about Claws/EnA. Stackable +To-Hit/+Dam from Follow-Up with +Recharge based on the number of nearby foes from Entropic Aura. OTOH, been wanting to try out Rad/EA because +Recharge helps with cycling its powers (and I would be taking Cross Punch anyway since Proton Sweep is a wet sack of dog poop waiting to drop on your pants and shoes, Devastating Blow is painfully long in animating, and Cross Punch also helps with +Recharge) and you get the Endurance support Rad Melee so desperately craves.

 

 

[Nemu]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Also Battle Axe!  But War Mace is just plain better

That’s what “they” want you to think!

[Bastille Boy]

War Mace is my top pick. I have a ridiculous number of war mace toons, mostly tankers and scrappers. The set is strong in both AoE and single target. The knockdown is helpful (both for slotting recharge procs and for mitigation). The weapon can be customized to fit many themes.

 

Runner-up: Dark Melee. Having a self-heal and to-hit debuffs is good for mitigation. I don't much like it thematically, but maybe you will?

 

Second runner-up: Street Justice. The best version is on stalkers, where it's top tier, but it's perfectly fine on other melee ATs. The animations are fast, and it's compatible with a wide range of origin stories, including natural origins. The weakness is the low radius of the AoE attacks.

 

 

[TungstenShark]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Savage Melee -- New to me as well.  I passed on it since I don't really love the telenuke, but I'm starting to come around on this on some of the scrappers I've been trying out with it.

If you get around to trying it...you may prefer to try this on a Brute. The Scrappers crit abilities do not affect the DOTs from the set but Brute's Fury mechanic DOES.

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Dual Blades -- Also new to this one.  Messed around with a few but never committed to it.  Also excited!

 

I think the combos are fun, but the combos break it for some people

[Stormwalker]

10 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I think the combos are fun, but the combos break it for some people

 

They're also unnecessary, though.  You can use the combo system, but one of the best attack chains for DB (possibly the best) doesn't use it at all.

 

Though the improvements to the combo system from the DB overhaul make it much more worthwhile than it used to be.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

 

They're also unnecessary, though.  You can use the combo system, but one of the best attack chains for DB (possibly the best) doesn't use it at all.

 

Though the improvements to the combo system from the DB overhaul make it much more worthwhile than it used to be.

 

Feel it gets forgotten how much +RCH is required to get that best attack chain.  You're taking Hasten (so locked in to a Pool Power Set there), and chasing after +RCH instead of survival bonuses.  Easy enough, sure when you're using Super Reflexes.

 

Also trying to recall if anyone knew if anything was better than Attack Vitals back when Dual Blades was introduces (IOs were Issue 9, DB was issue 11).

[Stormwalker]

19 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Feel it gets forgotten how much +RCH is required to get that best attack chain.  You're taking Hasten (so locked in to a Pool Power Set there), and chasing after +RCH instead of survival bonuses.  Easy enough, sure when you're using Super Reflexes.

 

Also trying to recall if anyone knew if anything was better than Attack Vitals back when Dual Blades was introduces (IOs were Issue 9, DB was issue 11).

 

Oh, I'm aware.  My DB/WP uses Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals, because on Willpower it's not worth chasing after the Recharge for the best attack chain (in part because Willpower itself doesn't benefit from having that much recharge, and in part because getting that much recharge on Willlpower requires too many sacrifices).

 

My DB/SR and DB/Energy Aura, of course, are another matter.

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Stormwalker

[Errants]

33 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Also trying to recall if anyone knew if anything was better than Attack Vitals back when Dual Blades was introduces (IOs were Issue 9, DB was issue 11).

 

Legacy DB/* was well aware of the best chain ignoring combos. Especially egregious, since your secondary ability (the combos) failed ~14% of the time at the ToHit cap.

It just wasn't as accessible, due to market inflation.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Errants said:

 

Legacy DB/* was well aware of the best chain ignoring combos. Especially egregious, since your secondary ability (the combos) failed ~14% of the time at the ToHit cap.

It just wasn't as accessible, due to market inflation.

 

Eh, really, I felt that people letting the chance of the combo failing was over reacting to, considering it still had a good DPS regardless.  It just bothered people they could see the combo didn't go off.

 

Also, we go back to not all can pull off that insane recharge.  However, now that the combo goes off all the time, how big is the difference?  I would think the gap has closed some.

[Errants]

11 hours ago, BrandX said:

Eh, really, I felt that people letting the chance of the combo failing was over reacting to, considering it still had a good DPS regardless.  It just bothered people they could see the combo didn't go off.

 

Also, we go back to not all can pull off that insane recharge.  However, now that the combo goes off all the time, how big is the difference?  I would think the gap has closed some.

What other attack set had secondary effect failure rate of 1/7? Much like Fiery Melee is panned due to "damage" being it's secondary effect, and other sets do damage better... Non-Stalker Dual Blades, under the old combo system, would fail the combination 1 out of 7 times, assuming at the ToHit cap of 95%. Obviously, the worse your accuracy, the more likely your secondary effect didn't exist.

Agree, with the changes it should be better, but I've not yet revisited it.

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 minutes ago, Errants said:

What other attack set had secondary effect failure rate of 1/7? 

 

This is what kept me away initially.  It was as if the creators didn't understand probabilities.

 

I'm testing out one now, and I can't say I'm very impressed by the incremental combo performance.

[BrandX]

Just now, Errants said:

What other attack set had secondary effect failure rate of 1/7? Much like Fiery Melee is panned due to "damage" being it's secondary effect, and other sets do damage better... Non-Stalker Dual Blades, under the old combo system, would fail the combination 1 out of 7 times, assuming at the ToHit cap of 95%. Obviously, the worse your accuracy, the more likely your secondary effect didn't exist.

Agree, with the changes it should be better, but I've not yet revisited it.

 

The fact that you lost the combo really doesn't matter.

 

(As an example only as I'm not going to look for the numbers) DB doing 200 DPS w/ the misses is still awesome.  Losing the combo, really just equates to missing that big hit.  If BF > Attack Vitals was that 200 DPS, and some other set capped at 175 DPS without a combo gimmick, the fact that you missed the combo isn't that huge of a issue, except in one's head.

 

BF > Attack Vitals was great DPS (soloed ITF with it) and is easy to obtain for most builds, versus the absolute best option which avoid combo's but required enough recharge that few builds could get the defense they'd normally like.  I did try to chase that nice 3 attacks on a DB/WP and I just didn't get the defense in.

 

 

[Errants]

13 minutes ago, BrandX said:

The fact that you lost the combo really doesn't matter.

 

(As an example only as I'm not going to look for the numbers) DB doing 200 DPS w/ the misses is still awesome.  Losing the combo, really just equates to missing that big hit.  If BF > Attack Vitals was that 200 DPS, and some other set capped at 175 DPS without a combo gimmick, the fact that you missed the combo isn't that huge of a issue, except in one's head.

 

BF > Attack Vitals was great DPS (soloed ITF with it) and is easy to obtain for most builds, versus the absolute best option which avoid combo's but required enough recharge that few builds could get the defense they'd normally like.  I did try to chase that nice 3 attacks on a DB/WP and I just didn't get the defense in.

 

1) Perception. Losing the combo sucks. This I remember from playing DB/Will myself (broot, though).
2) Quickly checked in Mids: BF > Attack Vitals ~158DPS (though, unsure on the contribution of the combo piece, since scrambling the order of the powers meant the same DPS)
    BF > AS > SS > AS @221% global +Recharge and 96% +Recharge in AS ~190DPS - That's a 32DPS difference... on SO/common IO slotting for the attacks.
You're not wrong that it is an INSANE amount of recharge, but it IS better DPS than the combo.

[BrandX]

5 minutes ago, Errants said:

 

1) Perception. Losing the combo sucks. This I remember from playing DB/Will myself (broot, though).
2) Quickly checked in Mids: BF > Attack Vitals ~158DPS (though, unsure on the contribution of the combo piece, since scrambling the order of the powers meant the same DPS)
    BF > AS > SS > AS @221% global +Recharge and 96% +Recharge in AS ~190DPS - That's a 32DPS difference... on SO/common IO slotting for the attacks.
You're not wrong that it is an INSANE amount of recharge, but it IS better DPS than the combo.

 

1) Perception never bothered me, as I notice the missed attacks on the non combo sets, and it feels the same.

2) I'm not saying the non combo option isn't better, just that it requires enough +RCH that it's not a viable combo for every combo of power sets, and 158 DPS is still better than the set with no combo that does 150 and requires more +RCH to get there.

[Stormwalker]

4 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

1) Perception never bothered me, as I notice the missed attacks on the non combo sets, and it feels the same.

2) I'm not saying the non combo option isn't better, just that it requires enough +RCH that it's not a viable combo for every combo of power sets, and 158 DPS is still better than the set with no combo that does 150 and requires more +RCH to get there.

 

For what it's worth, losing the combo doesn't bother me now, when it only happens when I whiff the final attack.  That happens a lot less often than missing any one attack in the combo, after all.

 

But back when missing any attack in the combo meant losing the combo?  That got aggravating really fast.

[Errants]

2 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

For what it's worth, losing the combo doesn't bother me now, when it only happens when I whiff the final attack.  That happens a lot less often than missing any one attack in the combo, after all.

 

But back when missing any attack in the combo meant losing the combo?  That got aggravating really fast.

Well, yeah, you tripled your success rate. Instead of losing the combo 14% of the time, you lost it 5% of the time.

[UltraAlt]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:43 PM, Stormwalker said:

They're also unnecessary, though.  You can use the combo system, but one of the best attack chains for DB (possibly the best) doesn't use it at all.

 

Though the improvements to the combo system from the DB overhaul make it much more worthwhile than it used to be.

 

There as a big thread about combo-hate a while back.

 

Enjoy it the way you like it.

I basically have two trays set-up on my main dual blade that have two combos built into them by activating the powers in slightly different orders.

Set up a debuff effect combo and then running a damage combo seems to work pretty good.