AE Building

[Monty Haull]

8 hours ago, Lines said:

 

Go check out what happened to the poor old Mercy AE.

I feel complete now.

I guess a " For Lease" sign would have been cool in AP. 

The carnage in Mercy is nice.

[biostem]

They should keep the building, remove the AE signage, and have some NPCs in bad costumes panhandling for XP  😆

Edited August 25, 2022 by biostem

[ivanhedgehog]

22 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

To be specific. The worse version was when I was running a Apex-Tin Mage. The player was a 50 with their the alpha open. They didn't know to get to RWZ. I am not even sure they knew what RWZ was.

 

I had to pop out in AP and show them how to get into the Vanguard building.

 

In their defense, they admitted they were clueless and had been power leveled.

 

 

If you told me to go to a specific place red side, I probably couldnt find it. I leveled 1 toon there around I8. I dont go there very often at all. I am very much not someone that has been power leveled.

[RikOz]

20 hours ago, biostem said:

This frustrates me so much - whenever I play a new game that has a world or zone map, I take at least a few moments to see if there are any points of interest marked on it, or any general features that stand out, and in CoH, those map markers are labeled, so there's no excuse!

I think part of it is the "WoW Effect". Over in WoW, it's generally accepted that the "real game" starts at max level. It's even officially set up now so that, instead of having to level up through eight expansions worth of leveling content, a new character just picks one old expansion to play through, which will level you to the minimum level of the current expansion. And then it's just a relatively short run from there to max level and "real" content. And, unfortunately, the "only max-level stuff counts" attitude has spread to other MMO player bases, if not to the actual games themselves. And so we get people who don't realize that "endgame content" isn't the whole focus of this game.

[Herotu]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:36 AM, roleki said:

Are we going to need an Echo Echo Atlas?

We need an Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo ... etc. etc. and so on and so forth, etc.

[High_Beam]

12 hours ago, Herotu said:

We need an Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo Echo

What?  Say again over?

[Neiska]

19 hours ago, RikOz said:

I think part of it is the "WoW Effect". Over in WoW, it's generally accepted that the "real game" starts at max level. It's even officially set up now so that, instead of having to level up through eight expansions worth of leveling content, a new character just picks one old expansion to play through, which will level you to the minimum level of the current expansion. And then it's just a relatively short run from there to max level and "real" content. And, unfortunately, the "only max-level stuff counts" attitude has spread to other MMO player bases, if not to the actual games themselves. And so we get people who don't realize that "endgame content" isn't the whole focus of this game.

 

I have to respectfully disagree. It might not be "your" focus, and that is fine. But please consider the following -

 

1. First the game is old. It came out in April 2004. That's 18 years old. If the game was a person, it would be old enough to join the military, buy a firearm, or vote. With point that in mind, I think it would be a fair assumption to agree that most people have played the game before, and are not first time new players. Some players have alts. Many, many alts. My self included. I have more than ten level 50s on 3 different accounts, and I intend to make even more. I would argue that "making alts" is just as part of the focus of this game as much as any other part of the game, for which other MMO game offers you 1000 character slots per account? But the main point is, is that most people have played the content before. Some people have played it many times. I mean who goes "Oh WOW it was Dollface the entire time?" on their 30th time playing through the Dr. Graves story arc? For such persons, they are more likely to speed onto whatever activity they enjoy, be it endgame content, or farming, or whatever act is their personal focus, which may or may not include "max level stuff."

 

2. I would also say that it is a fair guess to say that to people who fully level their character to 50, get it fully kitted out and incarnated, has likely spent more time at 50, than time not at 50.

3. People are able to go back and play other content they missed, either by side-kicking or through Ouro. It isn't a "get it now or miss it forever" proposition.

 

4. I believe there is more content at 50, than at any other 1-10 benchmark. I could be wrong there, but it certainly feels that way. And this isn't even considering things like accolades and so on.

 

I suppose my point is, that endgame content perhaps isn't "your" focus. And I can respect that. If you want to stop, look around, enjoy the moment and the view, then I wish you all the best in a hobby you enjoy. But others have endgame as their focus, or roleplaying as their focus, or playing the market as their focus, or making alts and trying out new ATs/power combinations as their focus, and so on. And their focus is just as valid as your own.

 

The "real game" begins when you click "create character" and whatever you do after that is entirely up to personal likes and dislikes. There is no "focus" in the game, aside from what players themselves choose.

 

Food for thought. 

[UltraAlt]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:21 PM, Sakura Tenshi said:

And/or level lock entrance to Pocket D until level 5.

 

er, why?

You don't think people should talk to Null the Gull before level 5?

or because they are just too young to go clubbing? ... or I guess more RP'ing these days....

 

.... oh, I see ... yeah. They should take the AE out of the Pocket D instead of level capping it.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by UltraAlt
.... oh, FARMing in the Pocket D. Sorry to use a 4 letter word.

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm honestly more upset about the Talos Arena closing down during live than the AP/Mercy AE buildings being imploded.

 

Then again I never used the AE in the starter zones as I like to stay away from the riffraff.

Edited August 26, 2022 by SeraphimKensai

[MangoKulfi]

In other people's defense the patch notes don't say "We have removed AE from Atlas Park/Mercy Island" they say:

 

"After a fierce bidding war for the contract to the building south of Wentsworth's, Freedom Corp has managed to secure rights to the structure over Crey Industries and has begun renovating the former Architect Entertainment to serve as their new headquarters after the destruction of Galaxy City."

 

I first read that as some unused enterable building being updated instead of AE being replaced, I don't use it myself so I wouldn't know off-hand where it was located.

[Shred Monkey]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:21 PM, Sakura Tenshi said:

I mean, back on live I had actually heard that be an issue with people not knowing what the hell the tram was and all that.

 

People not understanding how to get to various zones is fine.  Everyone starts out new after all.   But people being level 50 and not knowing is a problem.   

 

That said, back on Live my son, who was age 3 at the time, made a toon and figured out the trains took him to other zones all by himself.  He wasn't able read chat yet, much less ask it for help.

[RikOz]

8 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

I have to respectfully disagree. It might not be "your" focus, and that is fine. But please consider the following -

Food for thought. 

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. But I was addressing the concerns others have about brand new CoX players--those who are discovering it for the first time--immediately getting PL'd and then not knowing how to do anything else in the game. I just think that some of these new players have been conditioned by other games, like WoW, to think that "endgame" is the only thing that matters, so they want to jump straight into that.

 

I don't begrudge anybody else their playstyle/content preference. I mean, I'm the guy who prefers to be left alone to solo in a multiplayer game with my (currently) 122 alts, and I'm well aware that some people think that's ridiculous. The penultimate thing on my road to quitting WoW was the devs discontinuing things I enjoyed with the explanation being, basically, "the raiders complained about it". That just made it obvious, to me, that "endgame" was the be-all, end-all in WoW*, and all that meant in the end was that WoW was no longer the game for me. But more power to those who want to focus on endgame. I was just offering a potential explanation for why new players would want to PL past all of the leveling content.

 

*If you spend enough time on the WoW forums, you'll discover an alarming number of people who use the word "content" as a synonym for "raid". Constantly criticizing the game's "lack of content", when literally everything in the game is "content". They just don't want to do it, so they don't consider it "content".

Edited August 27, 2022 by RikOz

[Neiska]

13 minutes ago, RikOz said:

*If you spend enough time on the WoW forums, you'll discover an alarming number of people who use the word "content" as a synonym for "raid". Constantly criticizing the game's "lack of content", when literally everything in the game is "content". They just don't want to do it, so they don't consider it "content".

 

Fair! Far as that game goes what I loathed was the months of dailies for reputation, and then they considered that "content." 😑

[biostem]

9 hours ago, Neiska said:

I have to respectfully disagree. It might not be "your" focus, and that is fine. But please consider the following

Weren't we talking about things like not know where the tram was or how to otherwise travel between zones, not whether you liked the endgame more than the pre-50 stuff...

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

Weren't we talking about things like not know where the tram was or how to otherwise travel between zones, not whether you liked the endgame more than the pre-50 stuff...

 

Sure, but my point is that not everyone cares to know where the tram is, some might spend their entire time in the pocket D, or the AE, or in their base roleplaying, or whatever. Why the obsession about people not knowing where the tram is, or not teaming, or doing any particular activity in question. What activities people like will generally dictate what knowledge they have in a game. So people don't know where the Tram or Ship is? So what? I imagine there will always be people who don't know where something is.

[biostem]

Just now, Neiska said:

Sure, but my point is that not everyone cares to know where the tram is, some might spend their entire time in the pocket D, or the AE, or in their base roleplaying, or whatever. Why the obsession about people not knowing where the tram is, or not teaming, or doing any particular activity in question. What activities people like will generally dictate what knowledge they have in a game. So people don't know where the Tram or Ship is? So what? I imagine there will always be people who don't know where something is.

But that's my whole point - it seems like a huge oversight on the part of those players that they don't know basic game mechanics/systems;  We're not asking for folks to know what enemy groups or monster is in every zone, but at least know how to get around.  Like whatever content you want, but familiarize yourself with the basics... 

[Neiska]

Just now, biostem said:

But that's my whole point - it seems like a huge oversight on the part of those players that they don't know basic game mechanics/systems;  We're not asking for folks to know what enemy groups or monster is in every zone, but at least know how to get around.  Like whatever content you want, but familiarize yourself with the basics... 

 

Why is that an oversight? If someone chooses to spend every moment of their game time in Atlas, then that's their business? And if they decide to expand from there, then more power to them? I mean, I kind of see people asking as a good thing, no? It means people are trying new things, or maybe learning things? And that's a problem? I mean, you want people to familiarize themselves with the basics, and when they do, people go "why don't you already know?" 

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Why is that an oversight? If someone chooses to spend every moment of their game time in Atlas, then that's their business? And if they decide to expand from there, then more power to them? I mean, I kind of see people asking as a good thing, no? It means people are trying new things, or maybe learning things? And that's a problem? I mean, you want people to familiarize themselves with the basics, and when they do, people go "why don't you already know?" 

I don't know how else to convey my point - I suppose it's a matter of different mindsets.  To me, it's like this particular subset of players are being placed in the drivers seat of a racecar already crossing the finish line, without ever having learned how to drive - they get all the rewards and powers, but don't know what they even are or what to do with them, and when they encounter other players in the endgame content, they can't properly contribute or even be arsed to check a wiki link if provided with one...

[Neiska]

8 minutes ago, biostem said:

I don't know how else to convey my point - I suppose it's a matter of different mindsets.  To me, it's like this particular subset of players are being placed in the drivers seat of a racecar already crossing the finish line, without ever having learned how to drive - they get all the rewards and powers, but don't know what they even are or what to do with them, and when they encounter other players in the endgame content, they can't properly contribute or even be arsed to check a wiki link if provided with one...

 

Fair, and I suppose it is a different mindset.

 

I see it as people doing their own thing, or for whatever reason not knowing something and asking. And the people who have been playing awhile going "why don't you know that" without knowing anything about the asking person in question at all. Maybe they are a returning player, maybe they are new. Perhaps they simply never used the tram before, or did their own thing/another activity. I don't think of the game as a competition, or race. Its an open world where you can largely go and do as you wish, so not everyone is going to follow the same path of advancement. I mean, I know some pretty strict rp'ers who follow a rigid set of self-imposed rules they follow, like only taking 1 level a week and what have you. I guess my point is, there are all kinds of players. And assuming the worst, or comparing achievements like rewards and powers like it's a contest isn't my viewpoint. I see the game as a sandbox where people create characters. 

 

I get your point. Really, I do. You want people to "earn their stripes." And I can respect that. But my point is - This isn't the Army.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Neiska

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Fair, and I suppose it is a different mindset.

Granted.

 

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I see it as people doing their own thing

Here's where the issue arises - as soon as you team with others, it is no longer "your" thing - it is now a shared experience, and you have to take into account that there will be some expectations placed upon you - among them, knowing how to get from zone A to zone B.

 

4 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Maybe they are a returning player

Again, though - if they are a returning player, they'd probably recall having to use some building or map location to get form one place to another.  The trams are literally marked on the map with a big T...

 

5 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I don't think of the game as a competition, or race. Its an open world where you can largely go and do as you wish

It's not a race, but if you are teaming, you really should respect other people's time.  If you never took a travel power or one of the other methods for quickly getting around, don't get indignant if you get kicked for holding everyone up.

 

8 minutes ago, Neiska said:

I guess my point is, there are all kinds of players. And assuming the worst, or comparing achievements like rewards and powers like it's a contest isn't my viewpoint. I see the game as a sandbox where people create characters. 

And as long as you are solo, or only playing with likeminded players, that's fine.  The moment you team with others outside of those areas, all that has to go by the wayside.  If you are advertising that you are LFG, I invite you, and you don't know how to get to the zone we're in, I'll give you some basic info on how to reach us, but beyond that, I 'm not going to hold everyoen else up just to teach you have to read the in-game map or pull up a wiki link...

[Neiska]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

It's not a race, but if you are teaming, you really should respect other people's time.  If you never took a travel power or one of the other methods for quickly getting around, don't get indignant if you get kicked for holding everyone up.

 

And as long as you are solo, or only playing with likeminded players, that's fine.  The moment you team with others outside of those areas, all that has to go by the wayside.  If you are advertising that you are LFG, I invite you, and you don't know how to get to the zone we're in, I'll give you some basic info on how to reach us, but beyond that, I 'm not going to hold everyoen else up just to teach you have to read the in-game map or pull up a wiki link...

 

See, this is where I take issue. Such as expecting/demanding everyone take a travel power or get kicked. That is just straight up dictating or being a Karen. And like it or not, they are also "part" of the team. The team is only as strongest as its weakest link, not the strongest. A team will succeed or fail together. That's what a team is. Now if you want to remove someone from a team, that is a tool everyone has. But it sounds like you might be the sort to also kick someone if they aren't meta, or fully incarnated, or whatever. Like the sorts in WOW to require a higher ilvl than the rewards of the activity they are about to do. 

 

Sure, respect everyone's time. But that goes both ways. You have to respect others too, and that includes being patient if they are slow, or learning things, or doing something for the first time. I mean, how else is someone to know without doing it? It seems like you want the fastest, smoothest, activity possible and just don't want to be bothered if someone isn't cutting edge. I mean, what if they are handicapped or deaf? I am deaf myself, and attitudes precisely just like this is why I don't team often. This goes back to my first point - you don't know them. Or what they got going on. What they do or don't know. For all you know they could be playing from a hospital bed one handed, and you go "You are too slow. Goodbye."

 

I mean, I am not trying to suggest you are without compassion or empathy, just trying to make a point here. Unless you form your own core team of people (like a supergroup) I think your expectations are beyond what is reasonable in an open LFG. If you want people to your exact specifications, then you might be less frustrated if you formed your own team of core players from a SG, instead of rolling the dice on what you might get. And how is someone to get to that point if you don't give them a chance to get there? I don't mean to insult but this comes off as an elitist attitude here, in CoH of all places.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

See, this is where I take issue. Such as expecting/demanding everyone take a travel power or get kicked. That is just straight up dictating or being a Karen. And like it or not, they are also "part" of the team. The team is only as strongest as its weakest link, not the strongest.

When you create and lead the team, you can dictate the rules.  When you join someone else's team, YOU need to adjust to their manner of play.  YOU, especially as the "new guy",  do not get to dictate how that team behaves.

 

3 minutes ago, Neiska said:

That's what a team is. Now if you want to remove someone from a team, that is a tool everyone has. But it sounds like you might be the sort to also kick someone if they aren't meta, or fully incarnated, or whatever. Like the sorts in WOW to require a higher ilvl than the rewards of the activity they are about to do. 

How little you know.  Nice projection, though.  I really only ask a few things of those I invite to teams I run:  1. you actually try (participate regardless of how low level you are), 2. you be able to make your way to us, (sometimes someone may have recall friend or ATT, but every player's time is precious to them, so you wasting everyone else's is selfish), and 3. if you need to AFK, (which we all need to do from time to time), either make sure you are back before we finish the instance, (so we can all move on to the next mission, or send a tell when back, because I will have kicked you - again, because holding up everyone else is selfish on your part).

 

8 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Sure, respect everyone's time. But that goes both ways. You have to respect others too, and that includes being patient if they are slow, or learning things, or doing something for the first time. I mean, how else is someone to know without doing it?

For starters, not in higher level or end game content - maybe you shouldn't have been PL'd or done nothing but AE if you want to team with others elsewhere.  The time to learn is in a safe parking lot, not in the actual race.

 

9 minutes ago, Neiska said:

what if they are handicapped or deaf?

What does being deaf have to do with not knowing where the tram is or possessing some form of faster-than-sprint travel?  If the person is handicap, then just say so, and we'll make accommodations.  Why would you lump handicap people in with PL-ers or AE farmees who are ignorant of core game mechanics?  The 2 groups are not the same.

 

12 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Unless you form your own core team of people (like a supergroup) I think your expectations are beyond what is reasonable in an open LFG. If you want people to your exact specifications, then you might be less frustrated if you formed your own team of core players from a SG, instead of rolling the dice on what you might get. And how is someone to get to that point if you don't give them a chance to get there? I don't mean to insult but this comes off as an elitist attitude here, in CoH of all places.

It's funny - I form PUGs almost daily, and the number of genuinely ignorant players I come across is extremely rare.  Even then, the number of those that are not open to constructive instruction on how to get to where we are and possible play/build advise is smaller still.  If I say to you "press M, look for the little T icon, go there, then come to zone X", and you still can't understand that, then that's on you...

[Neiska]

Just now, biostem said:

When you create and lead the team, you can dictate the rules.  When you join someone else's team, YOU need to adjust to their manner of play.  YOU, especially as the "new guy",  do not get to dictate how that team behaves.

 

If "you" form "your" own team, then fine. Boot people as you see fit, "you" are allowed to do that. But keep in mind others can do that as well. So is someone else is just as free to boot you for being elitist, or for no reason at all aside from "they are the leader"? But don't come here on the forums and complain that there aren't enough people to meet your expectations. You used LFG, a server wide public channel where anyone can join if you let them. And even you as the leader don't set the standard, the team does. "You" don't dictate the "Team's" level of play. Let's say you were the only one on the team to do X difficulty activity before. Is everyone to be on your level, to know the fights and execute it flawlessly? Thats not how people and teaming works. You are expecting people to accumulate to your play, but you don't wish to accumulate to theirs.  If you have expectations and the team can't meet them, then either you change your expectations or replace the team. It's really that simple.

 

Just now, biostem said:

How little you know.  Nice projection, though.  I really only ask a few things of those I invite to teams I run:  1. you actually try (participate regardless of how low level you are), 2. you be able to make your way to us, (sometimes someone may have recall friend or ATT, but every player's time is precious to them, so you wasting everyone else's is selfish), and 3. if you need to AFK, (which we all need to do from time to time), either make sure you are back before we finish the instance, (so we can all move on to the next mission, or send a tell when back, because I will have kicked you - again, because holding up everyone else is selfish on your part).

 

I didn't project anything. I even made the point of saying I wasn't suggesting you personally. But just to reinforce this, I went through and tried to avoid the word "you" to avoid suggesting my contexts mean you personally. My responses here are contextually, not you personally, but I apologize as it could be seen as such. I shall be more careful in my phrasing.

 

Just now, biostem said:

For starters, not in higher level or end game content - maybe you shouldn't have been PL'd or done nothing but AE if you want to team with others elsewhere.  The time to learn is in a safe parking lot, not in the actual race.

 

And where is it written that people who have been power leveled or AE don't know things?  That is only an assumption. And again, I don't see the game as a race, it's an activity where different kinds of people can enjoy. This is falling back to do or die/succeed and fail examples. What about the case of people who know what they are doing and just sped-leveled an alt? I mean, there isn't that many new players now days, not like there was a few years ago. And this isn't considering things such as another players mental capabilities, or age. What if they are a child? I have read on the forums kids as young as 4 have played. (I don't know if such claims are true or not, only mentioning them for an example.) Personally, I am not surprised that not everyone knows the basic things. Especially in an older game that is free to play, one in which a parent who used to play in their youth might allow their child to do so, unsupervised.

 

Just now, biostem said:

What does being deaf have to do with not knowing where the tram is or possessing some form of faster-than-sprint travel?  If the person is handicap, then just say so, and we'll make accommodations.  Why would you lump handicap people in with PL-ers or AE farmees who are ignorant of core game mechanics?  The 2 groups are not the same.

 

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that accommodations would be made, based on my own experience in the game. In my experience someone says, "hurry up" and if they can't or won't then they are removed. But you are correct, those two aren't mutually exclusive, I am both - I PL and play the AE often. But things such as this are precisely why I don't team often unless there is a particular thing I am after. The "gogogogo," "meta only," or elitist attitudes I find just as vexing as you might find "ignorant" players. 

 

Just now, biostem said:

It's funny - I form PUGs almost daily, and the number of genuinely ignorant players I come across is extremely rare.  Even then, the number of those that are not open to constructive instruction on how to get to where we are and possible play/build advise is smaller still.  If I say to you "press M, look for the little T icon, go there, then come to zone X", and you still can't understand that, then that's on you...

 

First off, If it is so extremely rare, then why make such a fuss of it? 

 

Secondly, I want to share something with you. Just last night I was playing one of the new harder difficulties on my crabber. It was my first time, so I went with my super tough build - def capped, 85% res. An uncommon crabby build, but its the best one I am at playing. I don't have perma pets with that build. Now, someone on the team, lets call them the Elitist, noticed and started to tell in team how trash I was, that I was a detriment to the team by not having my crabber pets. Now, since you said your ignorant players are a rare occurrence, I would submit that I encounter elitists more often than you encounter ignorant newbies. 

 

Now, my point here is, is that it sounds like some people are expecting everyone else to accumulate to their level, while not accumulating to others, even down if necessary. What if they don't start the team? Or do they just run off, possibly die and go "what the heck, where were my heals" or "fail tank" when the others don't accumulate to their expectations?

 

In closing I would like to highlight that no matter what you do - people such as this will always be encountered, which is one reason why I see the game as a sandbox, not a race. You will encounter people of all kinds before, of different capabilities and skill. So the question really is will you maintain your standards, or change them where necessary? 

 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

If "you" form "your" own team, then fine.

Remember that the scenario is about the person not knowing how to get around joining an existing team, not the other way around...

 

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

So is someone else is just as free to boot you for being elitist, or for no reason at all aside from "they are the leader"? But don't come here on the forums and complain that there aren't enough people to meet your expectations.

Why do you keep going on about how knowing basic, core game mechanics, is elitist?  You seem to have your wires crossed.

 

3 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that accommodations would be made

The burden of proof is on you, buddy.

 

4 minutes ago, Neiska said:

based on my own experience in the game

Oh?  Have we teamed before?  if not, then maybe try not to prejudge people.

 

5 minutes ago, Neiska said:

First off, If it is so extremely rare, then why make such a fuss of it? 

Because, when it does happen, it puts a big old STOP on everything everyone else is doing.  That single person has just wasted a chunk of time for the rest of the players on the team.

 

6 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Now, since you said your ignorant players are a rare occurrence, I would submit that I encounter elitists more often than you encounter ignorant newbies. 

Anecdotes =/= evidence.

 

7 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Now, my point here is, is that it sounds like some people are expecting everyone else to accumulate to their level, while not accumulating to others, even down if necessary. What if they don't start the team? Or do they just run off, possibly die and go "what the heck, where were my heals" or "fail tank" when the others don't accumulate to their expectations?

I don't think "accumulate" is what you're looking for, but moving past that, I'm not looking for a particular build, or you being all IO'd up or have max Incarnates - what I'm looking for is familiarity with core game mechanics, or at the very least, a willingness to recognize that you don't yet have this knowledge, and be open to learning whilst respecting everyone else's time - you see, if there's a team of 8 with 7 of them already in the zone and ready to begin, but you're still figuring out how to get there, then maybe the issue is you...

[Neiska]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

The burden of proof is on you, buddy.

 

Actually, no, it isn't. As I don't have to prove anything, any more than you do. If the burden of proof is on me, then the burden of proof is also on you to prove that without a doubt each and every one who doesn't know basic general knowledge of the game is someone who got power leveled and is not any other case or scenario such as the many I have already listed. Now, I haven't asked that, nor do I expect it, because I think it's ridiculous, just as you are being just as ridiculous in just handwaving away situations that happen. You don't think I never got grief for not hearing a glowie? You can't be serious.

 

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

Oh?  Have we teamed before?  if not, then maybe try not to prejudge people.

 

Says the one who makes statements about an entire part of the community, with respect, you yourself re being prejudiced sir. And no, we haven't teamed, and I sincerely we never do as I suspect neither of us would enjoy it. I am not saying this to be insulting or suggestive in any manner, I just think our mindsets are too different to make it an enjoyable activity. 

 

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

Because, when it does happen, it puts a big old STOP on everything everyone else is doing.  That single person has just wasted a chunk of time for the rest of the players on the team.

 

Or, you know, the reverse is also just as true. Someone with a chip on their shoulder in a rush runs off ahead of everyone else.

 

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

Anecdotes =/= evidence.

 

But your own Anecdotes count as evidence? 

 

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

I don't think "accumulate" is what you're looking for, but moving past that, I'm not looking for a particular build, or you being all IO'd up or have max Incarnates - what I'm looking for is familiarity with core game mechanics, or at the very least, a willingness to recognize that you don't yet have this knowledge, and be open to learning whilst respecting everyone else's time - you see, if there's a team of 8 with 7 of them already in the zone and ready to begin, but you're still figuring out how to get there, then maybe the issue is you...

 

Sure, the issue is that person. Who is doing something new for the first time, could be young, or inexperienced, or any number of scenarios. And if you have a problem with people learning, then I would think that is a "you" problem. I mean, you want people to know, but when they try, you cite them for it? We really are coming full circle here aren't we?

 

Look. Lets agree to disagree here. You expect everyone to know the location or be willing to find it when joining a team, yes? Fine. Fair. I am just pointing out reasons or scenarios why they wouldn't, any of which are plausible, could be expected in an online multiplayer game and so on. You expect familiarity with core game mechanics, and so on. What if your team member is a toddler, or someone who doesn't speak English, or any number of possibilities? What is basic general knowledge to you, isn't the same for everyone else. And in such case either A. Adjustments can be made, or B. Perhaps that activity is beyond the players current abilities?

 

Will you at least consider that some of these are beyond their ability to control, or that some of them are more than "Power leveled ignorant players" as you insinuate?

 

But this is getting way off topic and personally I don't want it to turn into a debate any more than it already has. I hope we both agree that we have seen too much of that already. You don't want to team with certain people? Fine. Just know that others may not want to team with you in turn, not for lack of abilities or knowledge, because that isn't the only things that make a team good or bad. And those other people for whatever reason are free to not team with you or anyone else, despite whatever "encouragements" are put in place to entice them to do so. Live and let live a little, yes?