Hero Patron Pool Concepts

[Fade]

  

I've been thinking about some low-hanging fruit in the form of blue-side Patron Power Pools lately. I wanted to design these power pools in the same vein as Tyrranical's Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling thread, reusing as many powers as possible (which is consistent with the Ancillary Power Pool design from live, from my observation).

I've done my best to replicate the "standard" progression of other Ancillary Power Pools. However, some themes are lacking powers that fit perfectly (such as no AoE immobilize in any set that uses a Bow) so I have tried to match powers that at least have a similar concept.

The order of powers within the set is certainly up for debate. Within the existing sets, similar powers may show up in seemingly random orders. Take Blaster APPs and PPPs, for example: in the APPs, Blasters may get an armor power at Tier 3 for most sets, or Tier 1 for Munitions Mastery or Tier 4 for Force Mastery. In the PPPs, they get those armors at Tier 2, or Tier 4 for Leviathan Mastery. I tried to match the ordering of powers as best I could, but the inconsistency means that these powers could go in pretty much any order and still be reasonable choices.

So, without further ado, I present...

 

BOW MASTERY

The Bow Mastery set draws from Archery, Trick Arrow and Tactical Arrow whenever possible. Other "natural origin" type powers like Willpower are also fair game.
The obvious choice for a single target hold, Ice Arrow, is already available on Trick Arrow and Tactical Arrow users. That means Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders, and Masterminds that would normally get a ST Hold in their APP don't get one in these sets.
I think Soaring Dragon from Katana will look pretty good when used with a bow - The animation should line up properly, considering that both the katana and the bow are held in the left hand. However, the possibility that the animation looks screwy when the bow is used in an unintended way is certainly a possibility - if that is the case, then Soaring Dragon could be replaced by a new power that does a standard Brawl animation with the left hand with a bow in it to make a passable bow strike.
I'm choosing to give Body Armor as the armor power of choice because I'm a dirty Munitions Mastery user. It also seems the most appropriate for the powerset.
The summon of choice is the Wing Sting Agent from the Wyvern enemy group. The non-flying variant could also be used, but the jetpack variant is cool, so I picked it.
How would Bow Mastery work with Shield Defense? Unfortunately, it might have to be unselectable by characters with Shield Defense, in the same way that melee sets like Claws and Katana are disabled.

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow

Aimed Shot (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Glue Arrow (Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Rech, -SPD) - from Trick Arrow

Explosive Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smash), Foe Knockback) - from Archery

Poison Gas Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep, -DMG) - from Trick Arrow

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

 

Blaster

Body Armor (Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)) - from Munitions Mastery

Disruption Arrow (Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Res(All), -Max End - from Trick Arrow

Poison Gas Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep, -DMG) - from Trick Arrow

Resurgence (Self Rez) - from Willpower

Moment of Glory (Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Knockback, Repel), +Rec) - from Regeneration

 

Brute & Tanker

Aimed Shot (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Glue Arrow (Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Rech, -SPD) - from Trick Arrow

Explosive Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smash), Foe Knockback) - from Archery

Ice Arrow (Ranged, Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD, -DMG) - from Trick Arrow

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

 

Controller

Aimed Shot (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Kuji-In Toh (Self +Regen, +Recovery, Res(Psionic, Fear)) (from Ninja Training for Blasters) - from Ninja Training

Body Armor (Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)) - from Munitions Mastery

Explosive Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smash), Foe Knockback) - from Archery

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

Now your Trick Arrow Controllers can shoot the trickiest arrow of all: the pointy one!

 

Corruptor & Defender

Sharp Eye (Self +ACC, +Perception, Res(To Hit Debuff), +Special, +Regen, +Rec) - New Power

Body Armor (Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)) - from Munitions Mastery

Soaring Dragon (Melee, High DMG(Lethal) Foe -DEF, Knockup) - from Katana

Resurgence (Self Rez) - from Willpower

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

Sharp Eye would be a click power with the same bonuses as the power Eagle Eye from Tactical Arrow for Blasters.

 

Dominator

Fistful of Arrows (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Kuji-In Toh (Self +Regen, +Recovery, Res(Psionic, Fear)) - from Ninja Training

Body Armor (Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)) - from Munitions Mastery

Acid Arrow (Ranged AoE, Minor DoT(Toxic), Foe -DEF(All), -Res(Special), +Res(Heal)) - from Trick Arrow

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

In place of Acid Arrow, I am also open to using Disruption Arrow, also from Trick Arrow.

 

Mastermind

Aimed Shot (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Body Armor (Auto: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal)) - from Munitions Mastery

Fistful of Arrows (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Stunning Shot (Ranged Disorient, Minor DMG(Smash)) - from Archery

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

 

Scrapper & Stalker

Snap Shot (Ranged, Minor DMG(Lethal)) - form Archery

Ranged Shot (Sniper, Extreme DMG(Lethal)) - from Archery

Explosive Arrow (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smash), Foe Knockback) - from Archery

Ice Arrow (Ranged, Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD, -DMG) - from Trick Arrow

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

Sentinel

Glue Arrow (Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Rech, -SPD) - from Trick Arrow

Soaring Dragon (Melee, High DMG(Lethal) Foe -DEF, Knockup) - from Katana

Ice Arrow (Ranged, Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD, -DMG) - from Trick Arrow

The Lotus Drops (PBAoE Melee, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF) - from Katana

Summon Agent (Summon Wing Sting Agent: Ranged Moderate DMG(Lethal)) - New Power

The Lotus Drops in this set would use the bow as a melee weapon in the same way that Soaring Dragon does.

 

Next up... a real brain teaser!

Edited September 10, 2022 by Fade
The forum ate my formatting and half of my tables!

[Fade]

Next up, its...

 

MENTAL MASTERY

Some archetypes already have Psychic or Psionic Mastery, but these days almost every archetype has a psychic powerset available to them (or, in the case of Masterminds, some psychic-adjacent powersets like Empathy and Pain Domination). For those archetypes that already have a psychic themed option, they'll have both - just like any archetype with access to both a dark themed APP and the Soul Mastery PPP.

Mind Control lacks an AoE immobilize, so instead of postulating some kind of new AoE version of Subdue, I've elected to use the already existing Mass Hypnosis as a substitute for all the AoE immobilizes I see in APP and PPP sets. An AoE Subdue could certainly be created.

If this were a Praetorian-based Patron Power Pool (the illustrious quad-P!) a Seer would be the obvious choice for a summon. However, this is based on Prime Earth blueside - specifically Penny Yin. Which means out summon of choice is the Psychic Clockwork!

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow:

Psionic Lance (Sniper, Superior DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Drain Psyche (PBAoE, Foe -Regen, -Rec, Self +Regen, +Rec) - from Mental Manipulation
Anguishing Cry (PBAoE, Foe -DEF(All), -Res(All)) - from Pain Domination
Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Blaster:

Psi Blade Sweep (Melee (Cone), High DMG(Psionic/Lethal), Foe Disorient, -Rech) - from Psionic Melee
Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control
Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Telekinesis (Toggle: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Hold, Repel)

As Blasters already have access to Psychic Scream in their Mental Manipulation set, I've opted to bring in Psi Blade Sweep for the little extra AoE damage slot I see in most Blaster APPs. No other Blaster powers grant Insight, so for the sake of simplicity I decided to omit that part of the power from this version of Psi Blade Sweep.

 

Brute & Tanker:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast
Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Controller:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psychic Scream (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Link Minds (PBAoE, Team +To-Hit, +DEF(All), +RES(Psionic)) - from Psionic Mastery

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Power Boost (Self +Special) - from Energy Manipulation

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Dominator:

Link Minds (PBAoE, Team +To-Hit, +DEF(All), +RES(Psionic)) - from Psionic Mastery

Indomitable Will (Self +Res (Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Fear), +DEF (Psionics)) - from Psionic Mastery

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

Of all the Mental Mastery variants, this one seems the most similar to an APP that the AT can already access, but the option of having a pet makes this an attractive option.

 

Mastermind:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psychic Scream (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Probe (Melee, High DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge) - from Psionic Assault

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Psionic Lance (Sniper, Superior DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

I've noticed that a lot of the Scrapper/Stalker PPPs have two different blasts at T1 and T2 - this setup probably made a lot more sense when snipes didn't have the quick mode.

 

Sentinel:

Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control

Mind Probe (Melee, High DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge) - from Psionic Assault

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Mass Levitate (PBAoE, High DMG(Smash), Foe Knock Up) - from Psionic Melee

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

Mass Levitate could easily be replaced with Psychic Shockwave from Mental Manipulation for a more conventional choice, but Sentinels already have access to the very similar Psychic Wail. As with the Blasters' version of Psi Blade Sweep, Insight has been removed from this version.

 

Coming up next... my pièce de résistance!

Edited September 10, 2022 by Fade

[Fade]

The most radical departure from the form that I will propose today, and the idea that motivated me to write this all up in the first place.

A redside contact mission (Dr. Shelly Percey: Steal a Nictus from the Council) inspired me to make these proposals. My Spines/Regen Stalker was granted temporary power versions of Shadow Step and Gravitic Emanation, and it was completely gamechanging for that character. That got me thinking - why would a Kheldian opt to choose only an average civilian to bind with? I could easily imagine a hero, nearly at the height of their power, forming a bond with a Kheldian during the course of their career.

Therefore, I present to you a double feature...

 

PEACEBRINGER MASTERY

I think it's pretty unprecedented to have a travel power in an Ancillary Power Pool, so I've provided alternate options in case people don't like the change - but the travel powers are so core to those ATs that it seems unfair to not provide them as an option to the sets. What would happen if someone uses Energy Flight and regular Fly at the same time? One would probably just detoggle the other, like using a jetpack while using Fly.

To be clear, I am not suggesting this be an either/or selection that players can make - I am suggesting that the sets can be implemented with the more conventional alternative if the proposal is too radical for traditional sensibilities. In every case, my preference is for the travel power option.

Unfortunately, Pacebringers don't have much control in their sets (unlike Warshades), which forced me to lean heavily into Pulsar as the AoE control option and propose a new ST hold in the form of Gleaming Grip, which can probably be created using existing Peacebringer particle effects.

Even though I have all of the squishies using Shining Shield as their armor, I personally prefer the visuals of Thermal Shield (without the bubble), so I'd have the Thermal Shield visuals be either a replacement or an alternate option. Shining Shield's mechanics are still preferable because it gives Smash/Lethal resist - but perhaps the modified versions should give additional Energy resist, as many APP armors give more than S/L resist.
I'm happy to replace Glinting Eye with any of the Peacebringer ranged ST attacks, but Glinting Eye is very cool so it got my pick most of the time.

I am aware of the issue many players have with knockback, and I would advocate for the APP versions of any attack that includes knockback be set to knockdown by default instead. However, I am copying the effects as already presented for this write-up.
Photon Seekers is the pet of choice only because it already exists. If it was replaced with a new pet that worked more like the APP summons we already have, that would probably be better. It could be a ball of light, like a Kheldian form of the Unbound Nictus (which conveniently looks exactly like a Peacebringer using Light Form), or it could even be one of the Peacebringer PPD Transcended NPCs encountered at level 40+, or even some new Bright Nova or White Dwarf pets.

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)
Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)
Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Blaster:

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power
Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)
Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))
Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)
Essence Boost (Self Heal, +Max HP, +Res(Toxic))

 

Brute & Tanker:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)
Conserve Energy (Self End Disc)
Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Controller:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Conserve Energy (Self End Disc)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Radiant Strike (Melee, Superior DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DEF, -Fly, Knockback)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Dominator:

Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) /  Inner Light (Self +DMG, +To Hit)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Light Form (Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Sleep, Hold, Immob, Knockback, Repel))

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Mastermind:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Solar Flare (PBAoE, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Masterminds getting an armor power in their APPs is inconsistent, though it is more standard in their PPPs. Shining Shield could be substituted for Proton Scatter or Solar Flare just as easily as for Energy Flight if the "travel powers in the APP" thing catches on.

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Gleaming Blast (Ranged, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Sentinel:

Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Radiant Strike (Melee, Superior DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DEF, -Fly, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Solar Flare (PBAoE, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

Sentinels have a very standardized APP/PPP power progression, but the last slot is less standardized. Therefore, the more flexible slot is where I decided to put either Energy Flight or the pet.

 

Coming up, the thrilling conclusion!

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Fade
Forgot the VEATs!

[Fade]

And now, the thrilling conclusion to my proposals: it's...

 

WARSHADE MASTERY

For many ATs, this will be the third dark-themed APP. Too much? No way!
Much like the Peacebringer PPP, I propose the Warshade PPP be granted the iconic travel power from the full archetype.
Single target holds show up in a disproportionate amount of APP sets - thankfully, Warshades already have one, so I don't have to propose a brand new one. However, Gravity Well is melee range. I'm copying it as is for now, but I would suggest that the APP versions be turned into ranged versions instead.

Warshades also don't have an AoE immobilize, so I've opted to use Gravitic Emanation as a substitute for those. If a new AoE version of Gravimetric Snare were to be created, and used instead, I would not be heartbroken.
I feel the same way about Ebon Eye that I do about Glinting Eye - that is, they are replaceable by similar powers from the same set if necessary. Likewise with Gravity Shield and Shining Shield - I'd replace the visual from Gravity Shield with Penumbral Shield (which does not have a bubble) despite the Smash/Lethal resists being more appropriate for APPs (and I also advocate for these versions giving Neg resist as well for the same reasons as given for Shining Shield in the Peacebringer section).
Just like with the Photon Seekers addendum, I am using Dark Extraction as the pet only because it already exists, and it could easily be replaced by a more standard pet (likely an Unbound Nictus look-alike).

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Blaster:

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)
Shadow Step / Essence Drain (Melee, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +HP)
Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))
Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

 

Brute & Tanker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

A case could be made for putting Shadow Slip (the Fold Space for Warshades) in the Stygian Circle slot. That could be very cool, or it could be considered unfair to Warshades and Teleportation pool selectors.

 

Controller:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Dominator:

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Mastermind:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Had to reach a bit for a melee attack from Warshades, but the animations should work fine and look awesome to boot!

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) /  Shadow Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Sentinel:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Unchain Essence (Ranged (Targeted AoE Special), Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

Likewise, I had to reach for a PBAoE attack for the standard T4 Sentinel APP slot.

 

And that's all I have for you! I was about to write up a proposal for a Positron-inspired Radiation Mastery set, but Vanden already did a great job with that. The only thing I'd do differently is include a pet, as is standard for PPPs so far - likely a Longbow Officer or Warden. No sense reinventing that wheel!

 

[FUBARczar]

11 hours ago, Fade said:

Next up, its...

 

MENTAL MASTERY

Some archetypes already have Psychic or Psionic Mastery, but these days almost every archetype has a psychic powerset available to them (or, in the case of Masterminds, some psychic-adjacent powersets like Empathy and Pain Domination). For those archetypes that already have a psychic themed option, they'll have both - just like any archetype with access to both a dark themed APP and the Soul Mastery PPP.

Mind Control lacks an AoE immobilize, so instead of postulating some kind of new AoE version of Subdue, I've elected to use the already existing Mass Hypnosis as a substitute for all the AoE immobilizes I see in APP and PPP sets. An AoE Subdue could certainly be created.

If this were a Praetorian-based Patron Power Pool (the illustrious quad-P!) a Seer would be the obvious choice for a summon. However, this is based on Prime Earth blueside - specifically Penny Yin. Which means out summon of choice is the Psychic Clockwork!

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow:

Psionic Lance (Sniper, Superior DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Drain Psyche (PBAoE, Foe -Regen, -Rec, Self +Regen, +Rec) - from Mental Manipulation
Anguishing Cry (PBAoE, Foe -DEF(All), -Res(All)) - from Pain Domination
Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Blaster:

Psi Blade Sweep (Melee (Cone), High DMG(Psionic/Lethal), Foe Disorient, -Rech) - from Psionic Melee
Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control
Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Telekinesis (Toggle: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Hold, Repel)

As Blasters already have access to Psychic Scream in their Mental Manipulation set, I've opted to bring in Psi Blade Sweep for the little extra AoE damage slot I see in most Blaster APPs. No other Blaster powers grant Insight, so for the sake of simplicity I decided to omit that part of the power from this version of Psi Blade Sweep.

 

Brute & Tanker:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast
Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control
Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast
Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Controller:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psychic Scream (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Link Minds (PBAoE, Team +To-Hit, +DEF(All), +RES(Psionic)) - from Psionic Mastery

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Power Boost (Self +Special) - from Energy Manipulation

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

 

Dominator:

Link Minds (PBAoE, Team +To-Hit, +DEF(All), +RES(Psionic)) - from Psionic Mastery

Indomitable Will (Self +Res (Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Fear), +DEF (Psionics)) - from Psionic Mastery

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

Of all the Mental Mastery variants, this one seems the most similar to an APP that the AT can already access, but the option of having a pet makes this an attractive option.

 

Mastermind:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Over Body (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Psionics)) - from Psychic Mastery

Psychic Scream (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Mind Probe (Melee, High DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge) - from Psionic Assault

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Mental Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG (Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Psionic Lance (Sniper, Superior DMG(Psionic), Foe -Rech) - from Psychic Blast

Psionic Tornado (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Knockback) - from Psychic Blast

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

I've noticed that a lot of the Scrapper/Stalker PPPs have two different blasts at T1 and T2 - this setup probably made a lot more sense when snipes didn't have the quick mode.

 

Sentinel:

Mass Hypnosis (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Sleep) - from Mind Control

Mind Probe (Melee, High DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge) - from Psionic Assault

Dominate (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Psionic), Foe Hold) - from Mind Control

Mass Levitate (PBAoE, High DMG(Smash), Foe Knock Up) - from Psionic Melee

Summon Duke (Summon Cannon Duke: Ranged Moderate DMG(Psionic) - New Power

Mass Levitate could easily be replaced with Psychic Shockwave from Mental Manipulation for a more conventional choice, but Sentinels already have access to the very similar Psychic Wail. As with the Blasters' version of Psi Blade Sweep, Insight has been removed from this version.

 

Coming up next... my pièce de résistance!

Blasters - Link Minds 

 

And you basically ruined the Sentinel pool . 

 

Summon Duke : 👎👎👎

[FUBARczar]

9 hours ago, Fade said:

And now, the thrilling conclusion to my proposals: it's...

 

WARSHADE MASTERY

For many ATs, this will be the third dark-themed APP. Too much? No way!
Much like the Peacebringer PPP, I propose the Warshade PPP be granted the iconic travel power from the full archetype.
Single target holds show up in a disproportionate amount of APP sets - thankfully, Warshades already have one, so I don't have to propose a brand new one. However, Gravity Well is melee range. I'm copying it as is for now, but I would suggest that the APP versions be turned into ranged versions instead.

Warshades also don't have an AoE immobilize, so I've opted to use Gravitic Emanation as a substitute for those. If a new AoE version of Gravimetric Snare were to be created, and used instead, I would not be heartbroken.
I feel the same way about Ebon Eye that I do about Glinting Eye - that is, they are replaceable by similar powers from the same set if necessary. Likewise with Gravity Shield and Shining Shield - I'd replace the visual from Gravity Shield with Penumbral Shield (which does not have a bubble) despite the Smash/Lethal resists being more appropriate for APPs (and I also advocate for these versions giving Neg resist as well for the same reasons as given for Shining Shield in the Peacebringer section).
Just like with the Photon Seekers addendum, I am using Dark Extraction as the pet only because it already exists, and it could easily be replaced by a more standard pet (likely an Unbound Nictus look-alike).

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Blaster:

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)
Shadow Step / Essence Drain (Melee, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +HP)
Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))
Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

 

Brute & Tanker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

A case could be made for putting Shadow Slip (the Fold Space for Warshades) in the Stygian Circle slot. That could be very cool, or it could be considered unfair to Warshades and Teleportation pool selectors.

 

Controller:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Dominator:

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Mastermind:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Had to reach a bit for a melee attack from Warshades, but the animations should work fine and look awesome to boot!

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) /  Shadow Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Sentinel:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Unchain Essence (Ranged (Targeted AoE Special), Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

Likewise, I had to reach for a PBAoE attack for the standard T4 Sentinel APP slot.

 

And that's all I have for you! I was about to write up a proposal for a Positron-inspired Radiation Mastery set, but Vanden already did a great job with that. The only thing I'd do differently is include a pet, as is standard for PPPs so far - likely a Longbow Officer or Warden. No sense reinventing that wheel!

 

Sorry it makes no real sense to kinda be kheldians, but not really... 

Kheldians are energy beings granting their powers to their host when they are fussed/possessed/blended.

[Rudra]

11 hours ago, Fade said:

The most radical departure from the form that I will propose today, and the idea that motivated me to write this all up in the first place.

A redside contact mission (Dr. Shelly Percey: Steal a Nictus from the Council) inspired me to make these proposals. My Spines/Regen Stalker was granted temporary power versions of Shadow Step and Gravitic Emanation, and it was completely gamechanging for that character. That got me thinking - why would a Kheldian opt to choose only an average civilian to bind with? I could easily imagine a hero, nearly at the height of their power, forming a bond with a Kheldian during the course of their career.

Therefore, I present to you a double feature...

 

PEACEBRINGER MASTERY

I think it's pretty unprecedented to have a travel power in an Ancillary Power Pool, so I've provided alternate options in case people don't like the change - but the travel powers are so core to those ATs that it seems unfair to not provide them as an option to the sets. What would happen if someone uses Energy Flight and regular Fly at the same time? One would probably just detoggle the other, like using a jetpack while using Fly.

To be clear, I am not suggesting this be an either/or selection that players can make - I am suggesting that the sets can be implemented with the more conventional alternative if the proposal is too radical for traditional sensibilities. In every case, my preference is for the travel power option.

Unfortunately, Pacebringers don't have much control in their sets (unlike Warshades), which forced me to lean heavily into Pulsar as the AoE control option and propose a new ST hold in the form of Gleaming Grip, which can probably be created using existing Peacebringer particle effects.

Even though I have all of the squishies using Shining Shield as their armor, I personally prefer the visuals of Thermal Shield (without the bubble), so I'd have the Thermal Shield visuals be either a replacement or an alternate option. Shining Shield's mechanics are still preferable because it gives Smash/Lethal resist - but perhaps the modified versions should give additional Energy resist, as many APP armors give more than S/L resist.
I'm happy to replace Glinting Eye with any of the Peacebringer ranged ST attacks, but Glinting Eye is very cool so it got my pick most of the time.

I am aware of the issue many players have with knockback, and I would advocate for the APP versions of any attack that includes knockback be set to knockdown by default instead. However, I am copying the effects as already presented for this write-up.
Photon Seekers is the pet of choice only because it already exists. If it was replaced with a new pet that worked more like the APP summons we already have, that would probably be better. It could be a ball of light, like a Kheldian form of the Unbound Nictus (which conveniently looks exactly like a Peacebringer using Light Form), or it could even be one of the Peacebringer PPD Transcended NPCs encountered at level 40+, or even some new Bright Nova or White Dwarf pets.

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)
Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)
Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Blaster:

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power
Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)
Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))
Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)
Essence Boost (Self Heal, +Max HP, +Res(Toxic))

 

Brute & Tanker:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)
Conserve Energy (Self End Disc)
Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Controller:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Conserve Energy (Self End Disc)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Radiant Strike (Melee, Superior DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DEF, -Fly, Knockback)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Dominator:

Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) /  Inner Light (Self +DMG, +To Hit)

Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Light Form (Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Sleep, Hold, Immob, Knockback, Repel))

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Mastermind:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Shining Shield (Toggle: Self: +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Proton Scatter (Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Solar Flare (PBAoE, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Masterminds getting an armor power in their APPs is inconsistent, though it is more standard in their PPPs. Shining Shield could be substituted for Proton Scatter or Solar Flare just as easily as for Energy Flight if the "travel powers in the APP" thing catches on.

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Gleaming Blast (Ranged, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Luminous Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

 

Sentinel:

Pulsar (PBAoE, Foe Disorient)

Radiant Strike (Melee, Superior DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DEF, -Fly, Knockback)

Gleaming Grip (Ranged, Minor DMG (Energy), Foe Hold, -DEF) - New Power

Solar Flare (PBAoE, High DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF, Knockback)

Energy Flight (Toggle: Self Fly) / Photon Seekers (Summon Drones: Ranged Special, High DMG(Energy))

Sentinels have a very standardized APP/PPP power progression, but the last slot is less standardized. Therefore, the more flexible slot is where I decided to put either Energy Flight or the pet.

 

Coming up, the thrilling conclusion!

 

 

10 hours ago, Fade said:

And now, the thrilling conclusion to my proposals: it's...

 

WARSHADE MASTERY

For many ATs, this will be the third dark-themed APP. Too much? No way!
Much like the Peacebringer PPP, I propose the Warshade PPP be granted the iconic travel power from the full archetype.
Single target holds show up in a disproportionate amount of APP sets - thankfully, Warshades already have one, so I don't have to propose a brand new one. However, Gravity Well is melee range. I'm copying it as is for now, but I would suggest that the APP versions be turned into ranged versions instead.

Warshades also don't have an AoE immobilize, so I've opted to use Gravitic Emanation as a substitute for those. If a new AoE version of Gravimetric Snare were to be created, and used instead, I would not be heartbroken.
I feel the same way about Ebon Eye that I do about Glinting Eye - that is, they are replaceable by similar powers from the same set if necessary. Likewise with Gravity Shield and Shining Shield - I'd replace the visual from Gravity Shield with Penumbral Shield (which does not have a bubble) despite the Smash/Lethal resists being more appropriate for APPs (and I also advocate for these versions giving Neg resist as well for the same reasons as given for Shining Shield in the Peacebringer section).
Just like with the Photon Seekers addendum, I am using Dark Extraction as the pet only because it already exists, and it could easily be replaced by a more standard pet (likely an Unbound Nictus look-alike).

 

Arachnos Soldier & Arachnos Widow

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Blaster:

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)
Shadow Step / Essence Drain (Melee, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +HP)
Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))
Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

 

Brute & Tanker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)
Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

A case could be made for putting Shadow Slip (the Fold Space for Warshades) in the Stygian Circle slot. That could be very cool, or it could be considered unfair to Warshades and Teleportation pool selectors.

 

Controller:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Corruptor & Defender:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Dominator:

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Stygian Circle (PBAoE, Self +HP(Special), +End)

Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Sunless Mire (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD; Self +DMG, +To Hit)
Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Mastermind:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Gravity Shield (Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal))

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Had to reach a bit for a melee attack from Warshades, but the animations should work fine and look awesome to boot!

 

Scrapper & Stalker:

Ebon Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) /  Shadow Blast (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Detonation (Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Neg), Foe Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

 

Sentinel:

Gravitic Emanation (Ranged (Cone), Minor DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Black Dwarf Smite (Melee, Superior DMG (Neg/Smash), Foe Disorient, -Rech, -SPD, -Fly)

Gravity Well (Melee, Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Hold, -Rech, -SPD)

Unchain Essence (Ranged (Targeted AoE Special), Superior DMG(Neg), Foe Disorient, Knockback, -Rech, -SPD)

Shadow Step (Ranged (Location), Self Teleport) / Dark Extraction (Summon Essence: Ranged Moderate DMG(Neg))

Likewise, I had to reach for a PBAoE attack for the standard T4 Sentinel APP slot.

 

And that's all I have for you! I was about to write up a proposal for a Positron-inspired Radiation Mastery set, but Vanden already did a great job with that. The only thing I'd do differently is include a pet, as is standard for PPPs so far - likely a Longbow Officer or Warden. No sense reinventing that wheel!

 

The only way to get Kheldian powers is to have a Kheldian merge with you. The only mission where you get access to Warshade powers while not being a Warshade is the red side arc where you get a Nictus in your body until it is extracted before it takes your body over. So no, Peacebringer Mastery and Warshade Mastery are not viable as APPs.

 

Edit: Even having a fragment of a Nictus in your body can regenerate the Nictus and take over your body according to the lore. So to play with Keldian powers? You have to play a Keldian.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Rudra

[BrandX]

I'd like a Pool for the Scrappers that gives an Energy Blast like Energy Blast (Snipe or Tier 2) and a Hold that looks like Force Field or TKish with them in the air spinning.  Make it one of the energy shooting Heroes Patrons if need be 😛

[Zepp]

I think there was a Weekly Discussion about this a while back.

 

Weekly Discussion 69: Patron Pools

Edited September 11, 2022 by Zepp
Adding a link

[Zepp]

I was looking at my proposals, and I did suggest Kheldian Patron Pools... but they were just for Kheldians.

[Alchemystic]

Glad to see people still read through the old EFPR compilation these days, funnily enough before the thread transitioned onto ancillaries I did some work in the old weekly discussions on just this very thing, if you were interested😊

 

 

[Fade]

7 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Sorry it makes no real sense to kinda be kheldians, but not really... 

Kheldians are energy beings granting their powers to their host when they are fussed/possessed/blended.

 

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

The only way to get Kheldian powers is to have a Kheldian merge with you. The only mission where you get access to Warshade powers while not being a Warshade is the red side arc where you get a Nictus in your body until it is extracted before it takes your body over. So no, Peacebringer Mastery and Warshade Mastery are not viable as APPs.

 

Perhaps I didn't phrase my point well, so I'll try to reframe it. Why would someone who already has superpowers lose them when they merge with a kheldian? I'd see these APPs as a good way to be both a kheldian and have powers from other sources.

[Fade]

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

I think there was a Weekly Discussion about this a while back.

 

I recall seeing that thread at the time, but had forgotten most of what I read there, it seems. Looks like we had some different kinds of ideas about what some kheldian patron pools could look like, and I bet there would be room for both to be implemented if kheldians could get access to epic power pools opened up.

 

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

Glad to see people still read through the old EFPR compilation these days, funnily enough before the thread transitioned onto ancillaries I did some work in the old weekly discussions on just this very thing, if you were interested😊

 

Ah, and I see you're a bowman of culture as well!

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Fade said:

 

 

Perhaps I didn't phrase my point well, so I'll try to reframe it. Why would someone who already has superpowers lose them when they merge with a kheldian? I'd see these APPs as a good way to be both a kheldian and have powers from other sources.

The problem isn't a super-powered character merging with a Kheldian losing their powers. The problem is that a Kheldian can morph into any previous race they had merged with and have all their other powers available to them. In the mission red side where you temporarily have a Nictus in you and you get access to 2 or 3 Warshade powers? The Nictus has not managed to take over your body or fuse with it. It is in the process of merging with you. And after 90 minutes, you either successfully expel the Nictus from your body or the technician you rescue is able to extract it into a storage receptacle where it cannot try to merge with anyone.

 

As a Peacebringer or Warshade, the Kheldian works with its (presumably) human host, granting the host it has merged with full access to its powers. So the APP would by lore, need to grant the already super-powered character that merged with the Kheldian access to the Peacebringer or Warshade powers. It is not like with Scirocco who teaches you how to use the latent Mu magic 80% of the world's population inherently has access to. It is not like with Black Scorpion who simply gives you Arachnos tech to use. It is not like with Captain Mako who teaches you how to tap into the available powers of the sleeping Leviathan, a creature that has already been established as being able to provide additional power to those that know how to access it. It is not like with Ghost Widow who teaches you a few tricks to get the souls of the departed to aid you. It is not even like the APPs which are generic powers that could be inherent to the character, acquired through mutation, technological device, scientific tinkering, or additional learned spells. You are talking about taking an energy creature that has a vast array of inherent powers and merging that into another character that also has a vast array of powers rather than some additional powers the character picks up through some means to add to his/her repertoire. Basically merging two full characters.

 

Edit: To put it another way, while there is no reason why the character would lose access to any of his/her powers after merging with a Kheldian, neither is there any reason why the Kheldian would lose access to his/her/its powers either.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Rudra

[Menelruin]

Can I make a minor suggestion, that I've brought up in similar threads before?  For red side, you have four villain patrons, but they're all technically part of the same organization, Arachnos (since villain groups usually don't get along).  Maybe for the blue side equivalent, make it a patron ORGANIZATION you get in good with?  So you'd have Longbow itself as a patron, or Kheldians, or Fredom Phalanx, etc, etc.

[Fade]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

As a Peacebringer or Warshade, the Kheldian works with its (presumably) human host, granting the host it has merged with full access to its powers. So the APP would by lore, need to grant the already super-powered character that merged with the Kheldian access to the Peacebringer or Warshade powers. It is not like with Scirocco who teaches you how to use the latent Mu magic 80% of the world's population inherently has access to. It is not like with Black Scorpion who simply gives you Arachnos tech to use. It is not like with Captain Mako who teaches you how to tap into the available powers of the sleeping Leviathan, a creature that has already been established as being able to provide additional power to those that know how to access it. It is not like with Ghost Widow who teaches you a few tricks to get the souls of the departed to aid you. It is not even like the APPs which are generic powers that could be inherent to the character, acquired through mutation, technological device, scientific tinkering, or additional learned spells. You are talking about taking an energy creature that has a vast array of inherent powers and merging that into another character that also has a vast array of powers rather than some additional powers the character picks up through some means to add to his/her repertoire. Basically merging two full characters.

I think that you're seeing a limitation here where I'm seeing an opportunity. You're saying that kheldian powers and the patron pools are apples and oranges, but I think that's simply because it hasn't yet been done.

A kheldian has access to these extra forms and powers that aren't being expressed in the patron pool, that's true - but how different is that to a Peacebringer or Warshade player that chooses not to take those powers in the first place? Could the kheldian that merges with one of these players simply be a younger, less powerful individual? I think this is a good compromise to saying that a character is focusing on certain powers and not using others, just like any other character does.

 

3 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Can I make a minor suggestion, that I've brought up in similar threads before?  For red side, you have four villain patrons, but they're all technically part of the same organization, Arachnos (since villain groups usually don't get along).  Maybe for the blue side equivalent, make it a patron ORGANIZATION you get in good with?  So you'd have Longbow itself as a patron, or Kheldians, or Fredom Phalanx, etc, etc.

I like this idea a lot, and I think these particular suggestions are already most of the way there. Bow Mastery would work very well as a Wyvern patron pool, completely unchanged. Mental Mastery isn't quite there yet... you could say it's a PPD Mind Cop patron pool, but that's a bit of a stretch. Perhaps that would work better for goldside patron pools, were those ever to be implemented, as a Seers/Mother Mayhem set. What powers would you give to a Longbow patron pool set, and what other hero organizations would you choose for the rest?

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Fade said:

A kheldian has access to these extra forms and powers that aren't being expressed in the patron pool, that's true - but how different is that to a Peacebringer or Warshade player that chooses not to take those powers in the first place? Could the kheldian that merges with one of these players simply be a younger, less powerful individual? I think this is a good compromise to saying that a character is focusing on certain powers and not using others, just like any other character does.

How young is a "young" Kheldian? They've lived for a literally untold number of millennia. Across multiple corporeal creatures' life spans across multiple different races that they have merged with. All of them. Peacebringer, Warshade, and Nictus (as differentiated as still doing hostile mergings from the less aggressive Warshades). You are still talking about taking a fully treed out character and combining it with a fully treed out character. You may as well be asking to take a Brute and ask to get Blaster as the AT tacked on to it.

 

Edit: And yes, I can say "All of them" because that is how they are defined in the lore. Even 'young' Kheldians according to the data on them are ancient having lived across a few millennia and having merged with multiple races as they make their way across the galaxy.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Rudra

[Fade]

18 hours ago, Rudra said:

You are still talking about taking a fully treed out character and combining it with a fully treed out character. You may as well be asking to take a Brute and ask to get Blaster as the AT tacked on to it.

This is an interesting point, but I have to disagree with it. In theory, the game is balanced in such a way that a Blaster is equally as powerful as a Brute, and both are equally as powerful as a Peacebringer. Game balance may not play out this way in practice, but that is the goal that is being aimed at, and that is the way the world treats these characters. No matter what archetype you are, security level 40 is higher than security level 20, and therefore you are capable of doing missions for a particular contact, or joining a particular task force, or what have you.

So when giving any archetype powers from another archetype, are we tacking on that extra archetype and saying it's too powerful? Is it too powerful to give Brutes ranged attacks like a Blaster? Because we're already doing that, and the mechanical difference here is that Laser Beam Eyes (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF) from Energy Mastery looks different than Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF) from Peacebringer Mastery.

So this "increase in power" comes at the expense of an alternate, equally viable increase in power. And if your character would abandon their old powers in favor of the new kheldian abilities, that's what the Peacebringer and Warshade archetypes are for - including the more exclusive form-shifting powers that seem to be a sticking point here (or maybe it's just a sticking point for me, I can't tell 😄).

 

18 hours ago, Rudra said:

And yes, I can say "All of them" because that is how they are defined in the lore. Even 'young' Kheldians according to the data on them are ancient having lived across a few millennia and having merged with multiple races as they make their way across the galaxy.

This is interesting, do you have any specific source for this one where I can read more about it? I did a cursory scan on the wiki for more information, but while I've seen plenty of references to characters gaining greatly extended life due to their symbiosis, I didn't see anything stating that there are no kheldians younger than the millennia scale, except for remembering something similar from Twilight's Son's arc. But I hesitate to draw any conclusions based on that, as he is stated to be a time traveler from far in the future.

Regardless of the age of any one being, the point I originally made stands - there are already human-form-only Peacebringers and Warshades, that do not shapeshift, so the presence or absence of shapeshifting powers doesn't limit their viability as a patron power pool.

 

On another topic - Paragon Studios already opened the door for this lore-wise when they introduced the Imperious Task Force in the first place. Romulus Augustus, when encountered in the third mission of the ITF, is a Broad Sword/Shield Defense user (archetype unknown, but unimportant). Before you encounter him in the final mission, he bonds with a nictus and gains powers from it - but still very much uses his Broad Sword and Shield Defense powers. Specifically, he does not shapeshift into a Dark Nova or a Black Dwarf, but he gets about 5 new powers, according to the wiki.

I haven't yet tried the hard mode ITF, so I can't say for certain whether he exclusively uses nictus powers in that, but I'd say the Homecoming team has even further opened this door in some of the new content that was released in Page 4. Shadow-Stepping Cimeroran Surgeons immediately jump (heh) to mind, but they're far from the only new enemy type that gets new nictus powers and keeps their old.

 

Either way, this has been an interesting discussion! I have to admit, I was expecting to get more pushback on specific power choices with these ideas rather than pushback on lore grounds, but I appreciate hearing your thoughts regardless.

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, Fade said:

This is an interesting point, but I have to disagree with it. In theory, the game is balanced in such a way that a Blaster is equally as powerful as a Brute, and both are equally as powerful as a Peacebringer. Game balance may not play out this way in practice, but that is the goal that is being aimed at, and that is the way the world treats these characters. No matter what archetype you are, security level 40 is higher than security level 20, and therefore you are capable of doing missions for a particular contact, or joining a particular task force, or what have you.

So when giving any archetype powers from another archetype, are we tacking on that extra archetype and saying it's too powerful? Is it too powerful to give Brutes ranged attacks like a Blaster? Because we're already doing that, and the mechanical difference here is that Laser Beam Eyes (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF) from Energy Mastery looks different than Glinting Eye (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe -DEF) from Peacebringer Mastery.

So this "increase in power" comes at the expense of an alternate, equally viable increase in power. And if your character would abandon their old powers in favor of the new kheldian abilities, that's what the Peacebringer and Warshade archetypes are for - including the more exclusive form-shifting powers that seem to be a sticking point here (or maybe it's just a sticking point for me, I can't tell 😄).

When your character takes up an APP or Patron Pool, you are not tacking on a full AT. You are tacking on a few powers from a theme that your character by use of science, technology, magic, inherent ability, or further mutation gains. To get access to Kheldian powers, the character has to merge with a Kheldian. And that Kheldian, even if a 'young' Kheldian which do exist in the game, is at the very least several millennia old and has already merged with multiple races across the galaxy. That Kheldian came into existence with an array of powers already at his/her/its disposal. That Kheldian is already a fully developed and complete character in his/her/its own right. PC Kheldians are normal humans that merge with a Kheldian and use the Kheldian's abilities because the Kheldians cannot properly survive without a host body. I don't remember the reason why. And the Kheldian's powers are always there because it is part of the race, even if the player skips some of them. That Kheldian does not lose any of his/her/its powers just because the host body already has his/her/their own powers. So you cannot merge with a Kheldian as part of an APP because according to how the Kheldians work, you would have access to your already chosen powers, and then you would be able to pick and grow your Kheldian character on top of that. It works just fine for lore if the character is some epic GM/AV to challenge the players. It does not work for players because of the nature of the Kheldians and the fact that the only way to use their powers is to combine with them. Which again gives you access to all their powers. On top of your already gained powers.

 

Even if you implant only part of a Kheldian into a host body in the hopes of gaining only some of the Kheldian's powers? According to the lore, the Kheldian fragment will grow into a complete Kheldian with all his/her/its own powers available and will attempt to take over the host body. Using a dead Kheldian is still unclear, but the lore strongly hints that the results would be the same with the Kheldian being restored and taking over the body.

 

That is the difference between the APPs and HEATs. APPs can be tailored to set powers that complement the AT the pool is built for. It is not a full-fledged AT based on a race that uses that race's inherent abilities. So you can add some powers that you would find in a standard AT because they are not linked to any set race or powers requirements in the game. Kheldian powers are racial abilities and they don't just go away because you want to cram some into an APP. If their powers were not specifically defined as racial abilities? Then yes, your proposal would work just fine.

 

35 minutes ago, Fade said:

This is interesting, do you have any specific source for this one where I can read more about it? I did a cursory scan on the wiki for more information, but while I've seen plenty of references to characters gaining greatly extended life due to their symbiosis, I didn't see anything stating that there are no kheldians younger than the millennia scale, except for remembering something similar from Twilight's Son's arc. But I hesitate to draw any conclusions based on that, as he is stated to be a time traveler from far in the future.

Regardless of the age of any one being, the point I originally made stands - there are already human-form-only Peacebringers and Warshades, that do not shapeshift, so the presence or absence of shapeshifting powers doesn't limit their viability as a patron power pool.

Look up Kheldians for CoX, more specifically Nictus. This page has good information: https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Kheldian

I cannot currently find the page that spoke about the fragments progressively becoming whole again or the possibility of dead Kheldians/Nictus regenerating and taking over. It was from an old page when the game was still Live. If that data is no longer canon, the fragments do not regenerate, and the reduced data on the linked page is all that is valid? Then I take back my comments about those two APPs. (Edit: I was absolutely sure the data I was citing was on the page I linked for you, but it is not there. So if the data is removed and not valid any more, please accept my apologies on the matter.)

Edited September 13, 2022 by Rudra

[Rudra]

42 minutes ago, Fade said:

On another topic - Paragon Studios already opened the door for this lore-wise when they introduced the Imperious Task Force in the first place. Romulus Augustus, when encountered in the third mission of the ITF, is a Broad Sword/Shield Defense user (archetype unknown, but unimportant). Before you encounter him in the final mission, he bonds with a nictus and gains powers from it - but still very much uses his Broad Sword and Shield Defense powers. Specifically, he does not shapeshift into a Dark Nova or a Black Dwarf, but he gets about 5 new powers, according to the wiki.

I haven't yet tried the hard mode ITF, so I can't say for certain whether he exclusively uses nictus powers in that, but I'd say the Homecoming team has even further opened this door in some of the new content that was released in Page 4. Shadow-Stepping Cimeroran Surgeons immediately jump (heh) to mind, but they're far from the only new enemy type that gets new nictus powers and keeps their old.

Rommie never uses exclusively Nictus powers. He always fights with his broadsword and shield even while supplementing them with Nictus attacks. However, he immediately gets 5 new powers from merging, so how many additional Nictus powers would he get access to if he wasn't a fresh merging? (Edit: Like say he had the opportunity to do any leveling at all?) Anyway, reading the current data, my comments are increasingly looking to be wrong.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Rudra

[Fade]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

When your character takes up an APP or Patron Pool, you are not tacking on a full AT. You are tacking on a few powers from a theme that your character by use of science, technology, magic, inherent ability, or further mutation gains. To get access to Kheldian powers, the character has to merge with a Kheldian. And that Kheldian, even if a 'young' Kheldian which do exist in the game, is at the very least several millennia old and has already merged with multiple races across the galaxy. That Kheldian came into existence with an array of powers already at his/her/its disposal. That Kheldian is already a fully developed and complete character in his/her/its own right. PC Kheldians are normal humans that merge with a Kheldian and use the Kheldian's abilities because the Kheldians cannot properly survive without a host body. I don't remember the reason why. And the Kheldian's powers are always there because it is part of the race, even if the player skips some of them. That Kheldian does not lose any of his/her/its powers just because the host body already has his/her/their own powers. So you cannot merge with a Kheldian as part of an APP because according to how the Kheldians work, you would have access to your already chosen powers, and then you would be able to pick and grow your Kheldian character on top of that. It works just fine for lore if the character is some epic GM/AV to challenge the players. It does not work for players because of the nature of the Kheldians and the fact that the only way to use their powers is to combine with them. Which again gives you access to all their powers. On top of your already gained powers.

I think this is still fine. Like any Peacebringer or Warshade player, who is limited by the number of powers they can select due to game mechanics, a player who chooses one of these APPs would get to select the powers they want to use. And if that player would prefer to have more than the limited number of powers available to that archetype's PPP, they can roll up a proper Peacebringer or Warshade, which would represent them choosing to focus on using their new powers over any of their old ones.

I'd look at it like this - if my character got a Bane Spider mace from Black Scorpion, and used it from time to time, he has the Mace Mastery PPP. If that character then chose to focus exclusively on using that mace, I should reroll as an Arachnos Soldier and go into the Bane Spider powerset.

Likewise, if my character learned some Mu magic from Scirocco, I can use the Mu Mastery PPP. And then my character who has particularly strong ties to her Mu bloodline, who primarily fights using those magic powers, can be rolled as an Electric powerset user with the color tinted red. I'm already doing this one, with my Electric Control/Electric Affinity Controller.

 

14 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Look up Kheldians for CoX, more specifically Nictus. This page has good information: https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Kheldian

I cannot currently find the page that spoke about the fragments progressively becoming whole again or the possibility of dead Kheldians/Nictus regenerating and taking over. It was from an old page when the game was still Live. If that data is no longer canon, the fragments do not regenerate, and the reduced data on the linked page is all that is valid? Then I take back my comments about those two APPs. (Edit: I was absolutely sure the data I was citing was on the page I linked for you, but it is not there. So if the data is removed and not valid any more, please accept my apologies on the matter.)

That's the source I was referencing when I mentioned my cursory research on the topic (though I retrieved it from the Homecoming wiki, rather than the original Paragon wiki). I didn't see any specifics on the topic, though, which is why I was hoping you knew of any extra sources, like if it appeared in any mission text or what have you.

[Rudra]

No, all my data was from that page. Which I remember being quite a bit longer than it currently is. And I have so far not been able to find any other pages on the matter, so it looks like that data was removed since it was in conflict with the Galaxies of the Council. (And even at the time the page was longer, the entry on Galaxies was basically in conflict with the rest of the page. At that time, it was just annotated that it was unclear how the Galaxies were made and able to retain their own identities.)

[srmalloy]

13 hours ago, Fade said:

This is interesting, do you have any specific source for this one where I can read more about it? I

There is the original Kheldian Epic Archetypes document from Cryptic; it's old, last updated in October of 2004, but it's a lot more information than you see in game.