Why does everyone go bonkers over Cold Dom for the HM TFs?

[hemij]

I don't get it.

 

Yea, they've got the +Def shields, but is that really it?

 

The rest of the set seems pretty average? Sleet has -Res, but so does Storm/Sonic/TA/Dark, etc. Heat Loss has some as well, but it's on a stupid long timer. I don't see what this set does over the others that makes it so desirable.

 

I know I'm missing something, but I don't know what.

[Mezmera]

It's the combination of debuffs in Benumb and a few of other debuffs plus then yes its the defense shields which the soft cap is raised quite a bit higher whereas the resistance cap is a hard stop at the AT values.  Lots more versatility to bring to the team in Cold which really is nothing new, except the defense shields shine brighter now.    

[Astralock]

Cold Donination, to be frank, is a little overpowered.  Sleet gives too high of a -res debuff on Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds.  Plus, Burnout lets you stack things that really probably shouldn’t be stacked.

[hemij]

34 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Cold Donination, to be frank, is a little overpowered.  Sleet gives too high of a -res debuff on Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds.  Plus, Burnout lets you stack things that really probably shouldn’t be stacked.

 

Can you help me understand just what makes it overpowered? Is it just Sleet then, since it (mistakenly) uses the same modifiers as Defenders?

[Meknomancer]

Don't underestimate heat loss, it'll keep the teams blue bar full permanently which allows the rest to drop ageless for staggered barriers and rebirth.

[Meknomancer]

Its the set as a whole, when it came out on live it instantly jumped to no. 1 buff/debuff set. It brings everything to a team. Only thing its missing is a rez. It buffs with the shields. Keeps blue bars full with heatloss. Frostwork bumps hp and with recharge in the build you can pretty much apply it to the whole team although its a pain to do so. Benumb is -regen. Snowstorm (if you take it, most don't) will stack with sleets slow and bring mobs to a grinding halt and is pretty much the only skippable power. Even infrigidate is useful now the way procs work. -def, -res ,-regen, slows but best of all theres really no toggling required so its a top set for speed running and right now everyones trying to shave time off hardmode runs so they don't have to spend 240 minutes ploughing through 1 mob at a time. All you have to do is apply the buffs hit sleet and heatloss at mobs and do your best to keep frostwork up on whoevers taking the alpha, toss out benumb occasionally on hard targets.

 

Storm does very little to help the team other than dps. TA is rough going and doesnt bring the team any buffs and has a set up time. Sonic is....well its still sonic, annoying graphical efx aside its only got the res buffs going for it and the circle of doom on alpha (if your fast enough to keep up and dont go out of range). Dark is great but it has the set up time too applying darkest night, dropping tar patch, heal is epic when it hits but is your team mate standing next to you when it fires off or have they moved and the animation can be slow. Still 1 of my favourites.

[Xandyr]

Infrigidate

  This one power is (base) -31.25% Defense Debuff AND -37.5% Damage Debuff.

 

Benumb

-62.5% Damage Debuff , -500% Regen Debuff, and pretty much lowers the target's effectiveness when it comes to...well...everything ( -74.5% strength to mez, defense ,to hit, healing). And can be made perma.

 

 Now, throw in Sleet on top of this, and you're looking at a base of -61.25% Defense Debuff and -30% Damage Resistance Debuff, and a -124.5% Run/Fly/Jump Speed Debuff. Throwing in Heat Loss will get you ANOTHER -30% Damage Resistance Debuff and another -30% Run/Fly/Jump Speed Debuff.

 

Oh, and you can also provide around 36-37% Defense to your team (assuming Shields/Maneuvers/Artic Fog). This is why, IMO, Force Field is almost irrelevant. Sure, FF can bring roughly 43-45% Defense, but has NO debuffs and no absorption (Frostwork from Cold).

[Ringo]

Yet in a case of thematic irony, Forcefield bubbles look cooler than Ice shields

[Neiska]

2 minutes ago, Ringo said:

Yet in a case of thematic irony, Forcefield bubbles look cooler than Ice shields

[Doomguide2005]

4 minutes ago, Ringo said:

Yet in a case of thematic irony, Forcefield bubbles look cooler than Ice shields

     And you can Power Boost, PBU, use Clarion on the shields and it provides AoE mez protection neither of which Cold can do.  Really comes down to what the team as a whole needs.  It's very easy to need substantially more defense than what a single Cold alone can provide at 4-star.  Force Field may lack the rest of Cold's debuff capability but it can add mez protection and more defense than Cold.  The strongest teams are generally going to have multiple buffer/debuffers, like both a Cold and Force Field character.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Typos and clarity

[Hedgefund2]

Infrigidates -dmg is just to fire damage.  See https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=defender_buff.cold_domination.infrigidate&at=defender

[FUBARczar]

12 hours ago, Astralock said:

Cold Donination, to be frank, is a little overpowered.  Sleet gives too high of a -res debuff on Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds.  Plus, Burnout lets you stack things that really probably shouldn’t be stacked.

Burnout is situational and can't be used as a regular tactic, so it's flashy but not all that to write home about.  Especially in situations with an AV the you need to kill multiple times in series.

[Voltak]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:06 PM, Astralock said:

Cold Donination, to be frank, is a little overpowered.  Sleet gives too high of a -res debuff on Corruptors, Controllers, and Masterminds.  Plus, Burnout lets you stack things that really probably shouldn’t be stacked.

NO, this is only an appearance of greater proportions now that HARD MODE is out, 4 stars ITF especially. 

Let me explain. 
For 4 Star ITF, there is only room for 8 people.

For 4 STAR ITF, the defense soft cap is much higher than the vastly easy CoH game content. 

Enemies have greater, much greater chances to hit you and they hit far and away harder than easy mode CoH. 

So defense shields to boost the defenses of the team are wanted. 

Also, team need debuffs, they need resistance debuffs. 

They need regen debuffs as well for the hard targets 

Endurance buffs are always welcome so no one relies on AGELESS CORE. 

And, again, there are only 8 spots in the team. 

You are going to need not one of those defense shields. You are going to need some more. 
So, already you taking about 3 spots on the team. 
You might as well take those 3 spots for Cold domination because they bring the other stuff I mentioned above , besides the defense shields. 

Some teams even have 4 Colds, some other few have more. 

In the New ITF, the enemies do not have a 100% chance to hit you, so very very high defenses can virtually make you nigh unkillable. 

The exception to this is when you have multiple EBs close enough to each other, because in that case they are buffing the other EBs with TO HIT BUFFs. 
Those TO HIT BUFFs will enable them to hit through your defenses, and then you will need other mitigation. 


So, overpowers ??

The question is overpowered VS WHAT ?  That's the question !

It is all relevant. 

There are things in the game, enemies in the game, that really don't care how much defense you have.  They will hit you through elude level of defenses as if ELUDE is not even there. 

Cold shields in those cases are just going to look like a fancy ice decoration as you get hammered and killed. 

The question is overpowered vs what?  City of Heroes is paper, scissors, or rock game. 

Nemesis with stacked vengeance are going to hit you regardless. 

Rularuu minions will hit you no matter what. 

Devouring Earth , when you see those devilish things on the ground, and if you are relying only on very high defense to survive, you are going to be face planting and not doing much more than that. 

Then you have different versions of AE challenges, especially 801s and some of my AE challenges. 

Then you have some AEON Relentless cases where if you only rely on defenses and barriers you still going to die.  

You need other mitigation and movement tactics and so on. 

They will shred and SR tank running Elude in a couple of seconds IF THAT"S THE ONLY defensive hope they are counting on to survive. 

The TO HIT buffs are strong or they will shred defenses fast and destroy Defense Debuff Resists even if you have 100% DDR. 

So, "overpowered" is relative. 

DDR or very high defenses are not going to work vs everything, but it will vs many things. 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Voltak

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, Voltak said:

NO, this is only an appearance of greater proportions now that HARD MODE is out, 4 stars ITF especially. 

Let me explain. 
For 4 Star ITF, there is only room for 8 people.

For 4 STAR ITF, the defense soft cap is much higher than the vastly easy CoH game content. 

Enemies have greater, much greater chances to hit you and they hit far and away harder than easy mode CoH. 

So defense shields to boost the defenses of the team are wanted. 

Also, team need debuffs, they need resistance debuffs. 

They need regen debuffs as well for the hard targets 

Endurance buffs are always welcome so no one relies on AGELESS CORE. 

And, again, there are only 8 spots in the team. 

You are going to need not one of those defense shields. You are going to need some more. 
So, already you taking about 3 spots on the team. 
You might as well take those 3 spots for Cold domination because they bring the other stuff I mentioned above , besides the defense shields. 

Some teams even have 4 Colds, some other few have more. 

In the New ITF, the enemies do not have a 100% chance to hit you, so very very high defenses can virtually make you nigh unkillable. 

So, overpowers ??

The question is overpowered VS WHAT ?  That's the question !

It is all relevant. 

There are things in the game, enemies in the game, that really don't care how much defense you have.  They will hit you through elude level of defenses as if ELUDE is not even there. 

Cold shields in those cases are just going to look like a fancy ice decoration as you get hammered and killed. 

The question is overpowered vs what?  City of Heroes is paper, scissors, or rock game. 

Nemesis with stacked vengeance are going to hit you regardless. 

Rularuu minions will hit you no matter what. 

Devouring Earth , when you see those devilish things on the ground, and if you are relying only on very high defense to survive, you are going to be face planting and not doing much more than that. 

Then you have different versions of AE challenges, especially 801s and some of my AE challenges. 

Then you have some AEON Relentless cases where if you only rely on defenses and barriers you still going to die.  

You need other mitigation and movement tactics and so on. 

They will shred and SR tank running Elude in a couple of seconds IF THAT"S THE ONLY defensive hope they are counting on to survive. 

The TO HIT buffs are strong or they will shred defenses fast and destroy Defense Debuff Resists even if you have 100% DDR. 

So, "overpowered" is relative. 

DDR or very high defenses are not going to work vs everything, but it will vs many things. 

 

 

Seems a bit confusing your seemingly trying to diminish the claims that /cold corruptors are extremely powerful for 4 star ITFs when you just made a thread in the defender forums recently showing off your team having beaten it....

 

With 4 /cold corruptors in the group:

 

 

[Voltak]

7 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Seems a bit confusing your seemingly trying to diminish the claims that /cold corruptors are extremely powerful for 4 star ITFs when you just made a thread in the defender forums recently showing off your team having beaten it....

 

With 4 /cold corruptors in the group:

 

 

I said Cold is not Overpowered , as in, for the whole game, not OP.  It's not going to break the game. 

The question, like I said, is "OP vs what?" 

There are things in the game, enemies in the game, that really don't care how much defense you have.  They will hit you through elude level of defenses as if ELUDE is not even there. 

Cold shields in those cases are just going to look like a fancy ice decoration as you get hammered and killed. 

The question is overpowered vs what?  City of Heroes is paper, scissors, or rock game. 

I wrote the rest above. 

Being OP is relative here.  

The question is overpowered VS WHAT ?  That's the question !
 

[Doomguide2005]

Emp/Rad/Dark

<--- totally OP

 

 

At least against level 5 Hellions.  Tested it myself in AP 😳.  Did far more damage to myself.  They were too busy staggering about due to Oppressive Gloom 😜